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Estimate claims Apple bested Samsung by 3M to remain top smartphone vendor

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
Two conflicting estimates paint very different pictures of Samsung's smartphone sales in the March quarter, as the company did not publicly disclose exactly how many smartphones it shipped.

Directly contradicting an earlier report that estimated Samsung shipped 44.5 million smartphones in the first quarter of calendar 2012, IHS iSuppli reported on Friday that Samsung shipped just 32 million smartphones during the quarter. The massive 12.5 million unit difference between the two estimates from Strategy Analytics and iSuppli puts Samsung either well above or below Apple for the quarter.

Unlike Samsung, Apple publicly discloses its quarterly iPhone sales. The company revealed on Tuesday that it sold 35.1 million iPhones last quarter, representing 88 percent unit growth over the same three-month span in 2011.

Apple initially took the smartphone crown from Samsung in the holiday quarter of 2011, in which the company was bolstered by the launch of the iPhone 4S. Whether Apple retained the lead in smartphone shipments in the March quarter, however, remains uncertain.

On Thursday, Samsung confirmed its earlier estimates for the March quarter, and posted profits of 5.85 trillion won, or $5.2 billion. The bulk of the company's profits came from its mobile division.

iSuppli


One point that both Strategy Analytics and iSuppli can agree on is Samsung passed Nokia to become the top overall mobile phone vendor in the March quarter. Strategy Analytics' higher estimate pegs Samsung's mobile phone shipments as 93.5 million, while iSuppli has the company slightly lower, with shipments of 92 million.

"Samsung?s surpassing of Nokia for cellphone market leadership represents not only a changing of the guard among handset brands but also a fundamental shift in the structure of the wireless market," said Ian Fogg, senior principal analyst, mobile for IHS.

"Cellphone market growth is now being generated exclusively by the smartphone segment, and not by the feature phones, entry-level cellphones and ultra-low-cost handsets (ULCH) that had fueled the industry?s expansion over the previous decade. Samsung has successfully ridden the wave of smartphone adoption to attain market leadership. Meanwhile, Nokia is in the midst of transitioning its smartphone strategy, resulting in declining shipments for the company."
post #2 of 72
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post #3 of 72

IHS iSuppli's estimate seems far more reasonable than Strategy Analytics.  The idea that Apple dropped iPhone sales 5% QoQ while Samsung increased shipped smartphones by nearly 33% was extrememly questionable given that both companies just posted record sales in a holiday quarter and Samsung didn't introduce any notable, new smartphones.

post #4 of 72
Doing a google news search I see the Strategy Analytics figures being reported in mainstream news outlets. Will be interesting to see if this conflicting analysis is reported too.
post #5 of 72

it's worth remembering that shipped does NOT equal sold. Shipped means that it left a warehouse and went to a store. It could be on the shelf still. Heck it could be in an intermediate warehouse still. 

 

Heck even when Samsung says sold it might not mean to a customer. they love to talk about what they sold but they mean is the 'wholesale' to their resellers. So again it could be on a shelf still. 

 

When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included. 

 

then there's the issue of sold and then returned in 3 days cause it sucked. No one ever adjusts for that. So for all we know Samsung sold 3 million to end users who then returned them and got something else, including perhaps an iPhone .

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post #6 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

it's worth remembering that shipped does NOT equal sold. Shipped means that it left a warehouse and went to a store. It could be on the shelf still. Heck it could be in an intermediate warehouse still. 

 

Heck even when Samsung says sold it might not mean to a customer. they love to talk about what they sold but they mean is the 'wholesale' to their resellers. So again it could be on a shelf still. 

 

When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included. 

 

then there's the issue of sold and then returned in 3 days cause it sucked. No one ever adjusts for that. So for all we know Samsung sold 3 million to end users who then returned them and got something else, including perhaps an iPhone .

 

 

Interesting thought about returns at Samsung.  There are anecdotal reports of return rates as high as 40% for some Android-based smartphones.  Meanwhile, ITG Investment Research reports that Samsung Galaxy Tab return rates were 16%.

 

With all the reports of battery issues, GPS inaccuracy, heating issues, Wi-Fi issues and yellowish screen problems it seems likely that Samsung's top selling smartphone may have a relatively high return rate. 


Edited by MacBook Pro - 4/27/12 at 6:34am
post #7 of 72

So they are stuck in a warehouse or customers throw them back after a few days but Samsung have a record quarter? lol.gif

post #8 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

it's worth remembering that shipped does NOT equal sold. Shipped means that it left a warehouse and went to a store. It could be on the shelf still. Heck it could be in an intermediate warehouse still. 

 

Heck even when Samsung says sold it might not mean to a customer. they love to talk about what they sold but they mean is the 'wholesale' to their resellers. So again it could be on a shelf still. 

 

When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included. 

 

then there's the issue of sold and then returned in 3 days cause it sucked. No one ever adjusts for that. So for all we know Samsung sold 3 million to end users who then returned them and got something else, including perhaps an iPhone .

 

then there's the issue of sold and then returned in 3 days cause it sucked. No one ever adjusts for that. So for all we know Apple sold 3 million to end users who then returned them and got something else, including perhaps a Galaxy .

 

See what I did there?

 

On another note.........does it matter? Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months. So in the end Apple will always make the most profit, even if they only sell half of what Samsung does. 

 

 

 

post #9 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by emcomments View Post

So they are stuck in a warehouse or customers throw them back after a few days but Samsung have a record quarter? lol.gif

 

If its true that these are just shipments, at some point Samsung will have to take a HUGE write down for returned phones from carrieirs. You know, those MILLIONS of galaxy phones in the back of every verizon store. Don;'t you hate it when you go to a verizon store and you cant even move cause there are boxes and boxes of unsold samsung phones in all over the place?

 

 

post #10 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

then there's the issue of sold and then returned in 3 days cause it sucked. No one ever adjusts for that. So for all we know Samsung sold 3 million to end users who then returned them and got something else, including perhaps an iPhone .

 

 

 

If so, do you question the reported growth rate of the smartphone segment?  If a significant number are returned, but not subtracted in the stats, then the stats could be inflated to twice or more the actual penetration rate.

 

How do you respond?  Do you think that is true, or what?

post #11 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post
Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months.

 

Yeah, you certainly don't see Samsung phones selling for $199 and users being forced to take on a two year contract to own… one… 

 

OH FREAKING WAIT.

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post #12 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

 

derp... derp... derp...

 

 

 

 

What does the iPhone look like?

What?

What country you from?

Wh-what?

What ain’t no country I ever heard of!  They speak English in What?

What?

English, motherf**ker!  Do you speak it?!

Yes?

Then you know what I’m saying?!

Describe what the iPhone looks like!

What?

Say “what” again!  Say “what” again!  I dare you, I double dare you motherf**ker!  Say “what” one more God d**ned time!

It’s black or white!

Go on!

It’s rectangular.

Does it look like a Samsung?

What? Oww!

Does it look like a Samsung?

No!

Then why you trying to f**k it like a Samsung?

 

post #13 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Two conflicting estimates paint very different pictures of Samsung's smartphone sales in the March quarter, as the company did not publicly disclose exactly how many smartphones it shipped.
Directly contradicting an earlier report that estimated Samsung shipped 44.5 million smartphones in the first quarter of calendar 2012, IHS iSuppli reported on Friday that Samsung shipped just 32 million smartphones during the quarter. The massive 12.5 million unit difference between the two estimates from Strategy Analytics and iSuppli puts Samsung either well above or below Apple for the quarter.
Unlike Samsung, Apple publicly discloses its quarterly iPhone sales. The company revealed on Tuesday that it sold 35.1 million iPhones last quarter, representing 88 percent unit growth over the same three-month span in 2011.
One point that both Strategy Analytics and iSuppli can agree on is Samsung passed Nokia to become the top overall mobile phone vendor in the March quarter. Strategy Analytics' higher estimate pegs Samsung's mobile phone shipments as 93.5 million, while iSuppli has the company slightly lower, with shipments of 92 million.

 

That distinction is important. The two estimates agree pretty well on total phone shipments. They differ on 'smartphone' shipments'. It appears that there's a discrepancy on what they each consider to be a smart phone. That would suggest that the 'missing' 12.5 M units are low end smartphones or high end feature phones - depending on who is counting them.


Since Apple is not the least bit interested in cheap, entry level smartphones, only the higher end smart phones (probably not even the full 32 M as counted by iSuppli) are relevant to Apple's business model.

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post #14 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

On another note.........does it matter? Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months. So in the end Apple will always make the most profit, even if they only sell half of what Samsung does. 

 

 

Which planet do you live on? You don't think Samsung phones are greatly subsidized? In fact, if you look at full list price for an unlocked phone, Samsung's phones are every bit as expensive as iPhones.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Interesting thought about returns at Samsung.  There are anecdotal reports of return rates as high as 40% for some Android-based smartphones.  Meanwhile, ITG Investment Research reports that Samsung Galaxy Tab return rates were 16%.

 

With all the reports of battery issues, GPS inaccuracy, heating issues, Wi-Fi issues and yellowish screen problems it seems likely that Samsung's top selling smartphone may have a relatively high return rate. 

 

That can't be. The iPhone has antenna problems, battery problems, cases that break easily, and it's a closed ecosystem. Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...

/s 

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post #15 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


Considering how many quarters Samsung have been consistantly "shipping" 30+ M phones, i don't see how this can be true. If they shipped 30M to stores Q1, and most of those didn't sell to end customers, why would the stores order another 30M the next quarter especially if no new models were introduced, as stated by the article?
At steady state, i think we can safety assume shipped = sold.

 

Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses.  Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess.  My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.

post #16 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post
Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses.  Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess.  My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.

 

Actually, I'm not sure I'd trust them not to lie at this point. There really ought to be a third party that reports all smartphone sales.

 

A third party that doesn't advertise. That doesn't have any stake in the industry. 

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post #17 of 72

 

To answer the posts below, AI has commented on at least one occasion how the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than Android phones.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Yeah, you certainly don't see Samsung phones selling for $199 and users being forced to take on a two year contract to own… one… 

 

OH FREAKING WAIT.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 

 

Which planet do you live on? You don't think Samsung phones are greatly subsidized? In fact, if you look at full list price for an unlocked phone, Samsung's phones are every bit as expensive as iPhones.

 

 

 

post #18 of 72

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post


Considering how many quarters Samsung have been consistantly "shipping" 30+ M phones, i don't see how this can be true. If they shipped 30M to stores Q1, and most of those didn't sell to end customers, why would the stores order another 30M the next quarter especially if no new models were introduced, as stated by the article?YY
At steady state, i think we can safety assume shipped = sold.

 

No, Samsung ships them once, then after they come back unsold ships them again and counts two shipments per phone. It's the same logic as with the Android activations -- each time you reboot your phone counts as a new activation. 

 

/s

post #19 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

 

To answer the posts below, AI has commented on at least one occasion how the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than Android phones.

 

First, the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than SOME Android phones. Maybe even the average Android phone. But high end Android phones get very similar subsidies.

More importantly, it's irrelevant.  Sleepy said: "Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months."


Since many Android phones have a 24 month contract and high subsidies, sleepy was wrong.

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post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post
To answer the posts below, AI has commented on at least one occasion how the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than Android phones.

 

So Android manufacturers are lying about their MSRPs? Or iPhone users are paying more per month than Android users on the same plan? 

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post #21 of 72

Who gives a rat's ass. #1  #2  ... it's not like Apple is hurting and is going to go out of business tomorrow.

 

Besides, starting in the middle of October there will no longer be any question anyway... just in case anyone thinks it actually matters.

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post #22 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So Android manufacturers are lying about their MSRPs? Or iPhone users are paying more per month than Android users on the same plan? 

 

IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.

 

post #23 of 72

What Samsung calls a "smartphone" is questionable. Their own figures (before they stopped reporting) showed a massive growth from 2010 to 2011 (something like 4 times). However their total phone shipments didn't increase that much year over year.

 

What Samsung did is "re-classify" devices that were feature phones and move them into the smartphone category. Suddenly they're reporting huge growth in smartphone sales with a corresponding decline in feature/dumb phones.

 

Did you know Samsung is currently selling a brand-new phone with a 2.8" 320x240 screen running Android Eclair? Not ICS, not Honeycomb, not Gingerbread, not even Froyo. Eclair. This phone doesn't even come close to an iPhone 3, yet it's still being sold as a "new" device. Samsung is also selling Windows Mobile, Win 7 and Bada phones. When Samsung sells xx million smartphones, they are not all Android devices. And within Android they are selling a crap load of cheap phones.

 

I'd really love for Samsung to tell us how may "high-end" devices they sell. That's a valid comparison to Apple who doesn't sell garbage phones with QVGA screens and an OS that's 5 versions behind.

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post #24 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 

 

First, the iPhone gets a higher subsidy than SOME Android phones. Maybe even the average Android phone. But high end Android phones get very similar subsidies.

More importantly, it's irrelevant.  Sleepy said: "Its not like Samsung can rape the customer for a ridiculously high margin like Apple does and force the carriers into crazy high subsidies which they can't get out of for at least another 24 months."


Since many Android phones have a 24 month contract and high subsidies, sleepy was wrong.

 

Does Samsung only sell high-end phones? Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple? Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions? If one of your answers is "no", then Sleepy is probably right...

 

post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post
Does Samsung only sell high-end phones? 

 

Only the smartphones matter, however.

 

Quote:
Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple?

 

Yes, as evidenced by the price to MSRP ratios of Samsung phones.

 

Quote:
Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions?

 

Yes, as evidenced by Samsung's ability to put their own software on phones, get identical subsidies, and dictate how they're sold.

 

 

Originally posted by Relic

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post #26 of 72

Samsung can clear this up by releasing actual numbers like Apple does. Instead Sammy say it's 10-20% greater than last year, which was 10-20% greater than the year before.
 

post #27 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Only the smartphones matter, however.

 

 

Yes, as evidenced by the price to MSRP ratios of Samsung phones.

 

 

Yes, as evidenced by Samsung's ability to put their own software on phones, get identical subsidies, and dictate how they're sold.

 

 

 

Good to know you think so highly of Samsung's standing :)

post #28 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

When Apple talks sold they generally mean to a customer and activated. Rarely are channel sales with no end user included.

 

Not correct. In general Apple counts the sale when the product is paid for (or committed to be paid for), whether it was paid by Verizon, Best Buy or direct sale to the end-consumer by Apple. The sales Apple reports includes units sitting in warehouses or on store shelves. If a reseller paid Apple, it was a sale as far as Apple in concerned and reported as such.

 

If you're an Apple stockholder read the 10K. It clearly explains how Apple determines a sale.

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post #29 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

 

 

IIRC most top Android phones sell for less than the iPhone when bought unlocked and out of contract, when for the same phones via the carriers the prices are equal. Android vendors are essentially sponsoring Apple through the carriers. Which makes perfect sense if you look at the profits. Apple has positioned itself to be able to drive a good bargain from the carriers.

 

 

This is funny because until recently most Android fans here denied strongly it's not cheaper than iPhone (so we're not a cheapo). That's when Android *is winning*, now looks like thing is turned 360 degree because all I see is the claim iPhone is way more expensive. Very funny..

post #30 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post
With all the reports of battery issues, GPS inaccuracy,...

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

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post #31 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 

 

Which planet do you live on? You don't think Samsung phones are greatly subsidized? In fact, if you look at full list price for an unlocked phone, Samsung's phones are every bit as expensive as iPhones.

 

 

 

That can't be. The iPhone has antenna problems, battery problems, cases that break easily, and it's a closed ecosystem. Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...

/s 

 

 

Actually what Apple did was more of QUALITY CONTROL (by having TOTAL CONTROL OF BOTH the hardware and software, APPLE ensures the EXCELLENT quality of both software and hardware and NEVER deteriorates to MEDIOCRITY like WINDOWS or FRAGMENTATION as in the case of ANDROID)...Apple is NOT  a closed system since everyone and anyone can develop an app for its operating systems--the two are completely different!

 

Unfortunately for Koreans, they have a notorious reputation of 'doctoring' results--remember Hwang Woo-Suk    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk

 

The Great American Food Truck Race Korean Korilla BBQ Cheating Incident  


 

 

 

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Edited by MJ4Ev3r - 4/27/12 at 9:58am
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post #32 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

 

 

Except that those numbers, whether shipped or sold, are just guesses.  Until Samsung actually states the number of smartphones sold these numbers are as valuable as any number I guess.  My guess is that Samsung sold 3 smartphones.

 

If the numbers were bigger than Apple's, Samung execs would be touting all over the tech press (like they were a couple of quarters ago).  You can be 100% certain they did not sell more smartphones than Apple.

post #33 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

 

Hertz neverlost is consistently off by more than a city block in Manhattan.  maybe there is a connection.

post #34 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 Surely Apple can't have a 3% return rate compared to Android's double digit rates...

 

Apple currently has a 3% return rate on iPhones and Android phones average double-digits?? I noted the sarcasm tag so I'll assume that wasn't meant as a factual statement.

 


 

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post #35 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

 

Apple or Google map data?

post #36 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

It's not the maps or even the fault of Apple. It's simply a fact-of-life with GPS reception in the dense mid-town Manhattan landscape.

 


 

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post #37 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

 

I was referring to widespread reports not isolated reports.

 

Apple iPhone 4S is not perfect but it is, by far, the best smartphone available today.

 

 

 

post #38 of 72

 

"Unfortunately for Koreans, they have a notorious reputation of 'doctoring' results--remember Hwang Woo-Suk    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-suk

 

The Great American Food Truck Race Korean Korilla BBQ Cheating Incident "

 

Let me get this straight, you make blanket statements about Koreans being notorious for doctoring results by citing two examples? How old are you? 

 

By your reasoning if I were to give 5 examples of ANY country where their individuals/companies/institutions cheated I can make blanket statements about their country. 

post #39 of 72

Old enough to KNOW...how's THAT!  Seems even the South Korean government under President Roh supported and protected the fraudulent veterinarian--so that is evidence number 3!

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post #40 of 72

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

What Samsung calls a "smartphone" is questionable. Their own figures (before they stopped reporting) showed a massive growth from 2010 to 2011 (something like 4 times). However their total phone shipments didn't increase that much year over year.

 

What Samsung did is "re-classify" devices that were feature phones and move them into the smartphone category. Suddenly they're reporting huge growth in smartphone sales with a corresponding decline in feature/dumb phones.

 

Did you know Samsung is currently selling a brand-new phone with a 2.8" 320x240 screen running Android Eclair? Not ICS, not Honeycomb, not Gingerbread, not even Froyo. Eclair. This phone doesn't even come close to an iPhone 3, yet it's still being sold as a "new" device. Samsung is also selling Windows Mobile, Win 7 and Bada phones. When Samsung sells xx million smartphones, they are not all Android devices. And within Android they are selling a crap load of cheap phones.

 

I'd really love for Samsung to tell us how may "high-end" devices they sell. That's a valid comparison to Apple who doesn't sell garbage phones with QVGA screens and an OS that's 5 versions behind.

 

That's exactly what I was saying above. Both sources agree on the total number of phones sold by Samsung but they differ by 12 M units on the number of smartphones. The most likely reason is that one of them is counting 'advanced feature phones' as smartphones and the other isn't.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

 

 

Does Samsung only sell high-end phones? Can Samsung get the same subsidies as Apple? Is Samsung as influential as Apple so as to be able to dictate similar conditions? If one of your answers is "no", then Sleepy is probably right...

 

 

You are apparently very confused. Maybe no one has explained it to you, but Samsung sells a wide variety of phones, unlike Apple who sells only one major type. That's the issue here.


At AT&T's store, the Samsung Galaxy Note is $749 and is discounted to $299. That's exactly the same as the 32 GB iPhone. List $749, discounted to $299. So Samsung is getting exactly the same discount on their high end phones as Apple is and both are subsidized by $450.00.

The problem is that Samsung also sells the Focus Flash with a $389 list price, discounted to $100.00 after subsidy ($289 subsidy). So while Samsung's AVERAGE subsidy is probably lower, when you look only at comparable phones, it appears to be the same.

And that's the issue cited above. All of Apples phones are high end iPhones. Samsung is reporting numbers which include crapware phones that no one wants. If you look at how many people are buying high end phones (which is the only market Apple competes in), Apple is winning hands down. After all, even with iSuppli's numbers (which probably include mid-range phones, but leave out the really low end garbage), Apple is ahead.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

 

 

This is funny because until recently most Android fans here denied strongly it's not cheaper than iPhone (so we're not a cheapo). That's when Android *is winning*, now looks like thing is turned 360 degree because all I see is the claim iPhone is way more expensive. Very funny..

 

That's because Android fans don't believe in facts or reality. They'd rather sling FUD and hope it sticks.


In reality, the Galaxy Note is $749-same as the 32 GB iPhone. It's not quite comparable, but the Note has less internal storage but a larger screen, so it's probably the closest comparison).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

I noticed my iPhone had some serious GPS inaccuracies during a recent trip and the Maps app was totally useless in finding things like ATMs, coffee shops and restaurants in the downtown area of a major US city. I don't know enough about how assisted GPS actually works but it would pinpoint my location consistently off by about a city block. I was looking for a B of A ATM and it lead me two blocks away where there may have been a bank at one time but was now only a hole in the ground under construction. Later I discovered there was a BoA ATM within 100 yards of my hotel which did not show up on the map at all. Same thing with coffee shops. When searching for specialty coffee all it showed was Starbucks when in fact there was a nice organic coffee shop very close by which again was not on the map.

 

Apple makes a nice phone but it isn't perfect by a long shot.

 

I guess I missed the part where anyone claimed that the iPhone was perfect. Maybe try a real argument next time instead of a straw man.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

 

Apple currently has a 3% return rate on iPhones and Android phones average double-digits?? I noted the sarcasm tag so I'll assume that wasn't meant as a factual statement.

 


 

 

I was repeating the numbers someone else posted.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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  • Estimate claims Apple bested Samsung by 3M to remain top smartphone vendor
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