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Memo to Conservatives: You now no longer publicly acknowledge Ayn Rand's influence in your...

post #1 of 71
Thread Starter 

http://www.salon.com/2012/04/26/now_apparently_its_a_slam_to_say_paul_ryan_likes_ayn_rand/singleton/

 

 

 

 

Quote:
“The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.”

 

 

Quote:
I give out ‘Atlas Shrugged’ as Christmas presents, and I make all my interns read it. Well… I try to make my interns read it.”

 

 

Quote:
“Ayn Rand, more than anybody else, did a fantastic job explaining the morality of capitalism, the morality of individualism, and that, to me, iswhat matters most.”

That's what Paul Ryan said when Republicans thought it was cool to be honest about their philosophy of selfishness.  But, unfortunately, the campaign issue is now about religion so the narrative must change.

 

 

 

Quote:
“You know you’ve arrived in politics when you have an urban legend about you, and this one is mine,” chuckles Representative Paul Ryan, the Budget Committee chairman, as we discuss his purported obsession with author and philosopher Ayn Rand.”

An urban legend?  He threw Ayn Rand birthday parties.  

 

 

 

Quote:
“I reject her philosophy…. It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. “

Antithetical to his worldview?  He credits her for getting into politics.  His budgets slash "entitlement" programs to the bone while lowering taxes for the rich.  Ayn Rand's economic philosophy is precisely his worldview.  

 

 

So, how many of you Republicans are going to buy this nonsense?  How many of you Republicans are going to pretend that Paul Ryan and your budgets aren't influenced by Randian economic philosophy?  How many of you Republicans are going to call that dumb motherfucker out on his blatant hypocrisy?

 

Anyone?  Bueller?

 

 

 

 

 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #2 of 71

You should have said 'Libertarians' in your thread title.

 

Rand has never been part of the Social Conservative narrative, which is a bigger part of the GOP tent than the Liberts.

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #3 of 71
Thread Starter 

Paul Ryan says otherwise.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/115765039.html

 

 

 

Quote:

Ryan also told the crowd that economic and social conservatism are inextricably linked and have “the same moral roots.”

 “You can’t defend the one and give up the other. And they must never be separated,” he said.

 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #4 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Paul Ryan says otherwise.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/115765039.html

 

 

 

 

 

That's not something I agree with.  However, that quote seems oddly isolated in the article.  I'd like to know the full context is.  Also, keep in mind he was addressing CPAC, so he's obviously going to try to reach out to as many of those people as possible.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 71
Thread Starter 

So, both of you, how do you explain the policies and candidates you support falling in line with Randian philosophy while maintaining you don't actually support it?

 

And are you angry at Paul Ryan's blatant hypocrisy?  Are you happy with him taking the lead on economic issues for House Republicans?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #6 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So, both of you, how do you explain the policies and candidates you support falling in line with Randian philosophy while maintaining you don't actually support it?

 

And are you angry at Paul Ryan's blatant hypocrisy?  Are you happy with him taking the lead on economic issues for House Republicans?

 

I wasn't arguing Randian philosophy.  I was saying that I don't agree social and economic conservatism are never to be separated.  I don't see that he's hypocritical.  As for economic issues, I'm happy to see that he is actually proposing ways to deal with our fiscal challenges.  Politically though, he's opened himself up to the flamethrowers.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #7 of 71
Thread Starter 

He's not hypocritical for distancing himself from Rand after he credited her for entering politics?  Of course you wouldn't think that.  That would require honesty or critical thought.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #8 of 71

The thread title does not even come close to matching the content of the post. Most Conservatives don't even know who Ayn Rand is. Who cares what Paul Ryan says anyway? He's just one guy, he doesn't dictate what anyone else thinks.

post #9 of 71
Thread Starter 

Just one guy?  The Ryan Plan?  Hello?  The author of the Republican budget framework?  Yeah, nobody listens to that guy.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #10 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He's not hypocritical for distancing himself from Rand after he credited her for entering politics?  Of course you wouldn't think that.  That would require honesty or critical thought.

 

I don't think "hypocritical" is the word you're looking for.  

 

 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #11 of 71
Thread Starter 

You'd think incorrectly then.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #12 of 71

Memo to assholes who think they can decide who is allowed to participate and on top of that dictate to them who or what they can claim as influences....

 

Kiss my ass.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You'd think incorrectly then.

 

Don't you mean that he's flopping or pandering?  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #14 of 71
Thread Starter 

He is exhibiting hypocrisy by promoting policies clearly influenced by Rand while denouncing her philosophies--this after years and years of vehement vocal support for self-righteous asshole-ism (or whatever Rand calls it).  The Catholics at Georgetown are all up in Ryan's grill about how is policies fistfuck the poor, so Ryan has denounced Rand while not actually changing any of his policy recommendations.  He is giving the pretense of caring, but nothing more.

 

 

 

hy·poc·ri·sy

  [hi-pok-ruh-see]  
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2.
a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approvedattitude.

 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #15 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He is exhibiting hypocrisy by promoting policies clearly influenced by Rand while denouncing her philosophies--this after years and years of vehement vocal support for self-righteous asshole-ism (or whatever Rand calls it).  The Catholics at Georgetown are all up in Ryan's grill about how is policies fistfuck the poor, so Ryan has denounced Rand while not actually changing any of his policy recommendations.  He is giving the pretense of caring, but nothing more.

 

 

 

hy·poc·ri·sy

  [hi-pok-ruh-see]  
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2.
a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approvedattitude.

 

He should just drop the pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude and just be an asshole to everyone all the time like the thread starter. Then he could lash out at every one, dictate to them and then call them all manner of names if they didn't do his bidding.

 

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #16 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He is exhibiting hypocrisy by promoting policies clearly influenced by Rand while denouncing her philosophies--this after years and years of vehement vocal support for self-righteous asshole-ism (or whatever Rand calls it).  The Catholics at Georgetown are all up in Ryan's grill about how is policies fistfuck the poor, so Ryan has denounced Rand while not actually changing any of his policy recommendations.  He is giving the pretense of caring, but nothing more.

 

 

 

hy·poc·ri·sy

  [hi-pok-ruh-see]  
noun, plural hy·poc·ri·sies.
1.
a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2.
a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approvedattitude.

 

 

 

 

Again, that's not hypocrisy.  Are you suggesting Paul Ryan is an immoral man?  Are you suggesting he doesn't actually hold principles he espouses?  I don't think you are.  Instead, you're doing exactly what that hack publication Salon did...exactly what the Left does:  First, paint Ryan as being obsessed with Ayn Rand, as if he was part of some kind of cult-like following where ALL his positions are based on her views.  Secondly, take a quote where he differs with Rand and lays out his political philosophy and make it seem like he's throwing her under the bus for political reasons.   And let's add to that these made-up notions that Catholics are pissed at him and that his policies screw the poor.  

The National Review link in the piece makes this very case....that it's about how the Left is portraying Ryan.  

 

Really, BR...I'm not surprised.  You, like the rest of looney Left, now have Ryan directly in your crosshairs.  Given that he's the only one actually proposing we do SOMETHING to fix our unsustainable fiscal trajectory, that's not surprising.  The Left wants unchecked spending.  Even our spending levels now are not enough.  Why?  Because you believe government deficit spending and "stimulus" will fix the economy.  These are not lunatic fringe people either.  Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich says we shouldn't cut the budget at ALL until unemployment reaches 5%.  And the response to a man like Ryan shows the tactics the Left uses.  There are no counterproposals with the Ryan plan.  There are no negotiations.  That's because anyone who disagrees with the Left's vision of a European socialized democracy for this country must be destroyed.  Nothing new here.  Just the Left doing business as usual. 

 

 


Edited by SDW2001 - 4/30/12 at 4:05pm
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #17 of 71

Hardly surprising that invoking Ayn Rand is avoided by conservatives - her non-credibility as the promoter of the hard-assed "rugged individual" has been firmly established. Rand was a fervent skeptic of welfare for the poor and the elderly. However, when it came to walking the walk, she was not that great at it... she gladly accepted government provided welfare while castigating others who did.

 

Ayn Rand's terminal duplicity is reminiscent of the Chicken Hawk brigade: those privileged, well connected cowards who advocate sending others to war, while demonstrating their own yellow-livered hypocrisy by deliberately avoiding military service, or dodging the draft. In their mindset, its right and proper to order others to front line, as long as their own butts are not on the line. 

 

Oddly, the majority of blatant chickenhawks are those who pretend to be so "pro national security". Indeed, the list in the ChickenHawk Hall of Shame covers most of the Bush Administration's Iraq and Afghanistan neoconservative war hawks... Many in the war-hungry corporate media and even some the "entertainment" (?!) industry also qualify. Recipients of the "Distinguished Fleeing Cross" include such folks as... here's a random list:

 

Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Pat Robertson, Doug Feith, David Koch, Roger Ailes (Fox News), Ted Olson, Michael Ledeen, Trent Lott, Joe Lieberman, Richard Perle, Newt Gingrich, Wolf Blitzer, Andy Card, Elliott Abrams, Clarence Thomas, John Bolton, Frank Gaffney, William Kristol, Rush Limbaugh, Ted Nugent, Britney Spears, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Robert Kagan, Max Boot, Brit Hume, Antonin Scalia, Gary Bauer and Rudy Giuliani....   and Obama and Hillary Clinton

 

Skeletons rattle the closet, and the public remain selectively deaf. Ayn Rand is a liability is any argument posed by conservatives in this area.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #18 of 71
Thread Starter 

Agreed, Sammi. 

 

Also, SDW appears to be reading the same definition and seeing something completely different.  Disavowing Ryan's inspiration for getting into politics while not changing any of his policy recommendations is hypocritical--regardless of SDW's ability to read and understand a definition.  His cuts look Randian.  His proposals look Randian.  His policies look Randian.  He claims he isn't Randian.  Sorry, hypocrisy.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #19 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Hardly surprising that invoking Ayn Rand is avoided by conservatives - her non-credibility as the promoter of the hard-assed "rugged individual" has been firmly established. Rand was a fervent skeptic of welfare for the poor and the elderly. However, when it came to walking the walk, she was not that great at it... she gladly accepted government provided welfare while castigating others who did.

 

Ayn Rand's terminal duplicity is reminiscent of the Chicken Hawk brigade: those privileged, well connected cowards who advocate sending others to war, while demonstrating their own yellow-livered hypocrisy by deliberately avoiding military service, or dodging the draft. In their mindset, its right and proper to order others to front line, as long as their own butts are not on the line. 

 

Oddly, the majority of blatant chickenhawks are those who pretend to be so "pro national security". Indeed, the list in the ChickenHawk Hall of Shame covers most of the Bush Administration's Iraq and Afghanistan neoconservative war hawks... Many in the war-hungry corporate media and even some the "entertainment" (?!) industry also qualify. Recipients of the "Distinguished Fleeing Cross" include such folks as... here's a random list:

 

Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Pat Robertson, Doug Feith, David Koch, Roger Ailes (Fox News), Ted Olson, Michael Ledeen, Trent Lott, Joe Lieberman, Richard Perle, Newt Gingrich, Wolf Blitzer, Andy Card, Elliott Abrams, Clarence Thomas, John Bolton, Frank Gaffney, William Kristol, Rush Limbaugh, Ted Nugent, Britney Spears, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Robert Kagan, Max Boot, Brit Hume, Antonin Scalia, Gary Bauer and Rudy Giuliani....   and Obama and Hillary Clinton

 

Skeletons rattle the closet, and the public remain selectively deaf. Ayn Rand is a liability is any argument posed by conservatives in this area.

 

I'm not here to debate Ayn Rand with you, nor a I going to get into your predictable attacks on Cheney, Wolfowitz, et al.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Agreed, Sammi. 

 

Also, SDW appears to be reading the same definition and seeing something completely different.  Disavowing Ryan's inspiration for getting into politics while not changing any of his policy recommendations is hypocritical--regardless of SDW's ability to read and understand a definition.  His cuts look Randian.  His proposals look Randian.  His policies look Randian.  He claims he isn't Randian.  Sorry, hypocrisy.

 

Must you?  Yes, I see it differently.  No, I don't agree it's "hypocrisy."  That doesn't mean I'm wrong.  It means we disagree.  Once again, you are not the arbiter of all truth, BR.  

 

 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #20 of 71
Thread Starter 

I've pointed to the definition and explained how this situation fits.  You've just said 'NO IT DOESN'T LIBERALS ARE STUPID'.  Facts...republicans just seem to hate 'em.  You aren't entitled to your own set of them, sorry.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #21 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Just one guy?  The Ryan Plan?  Hello?  The author of the Republican budget framework?  Yeah, nobody listens to that guy.

 

Republicans might, that doesn't mean Conservatives do. If you meant Republicans, that's what your thread title should have said. 

post #22 of 71
Thread Starter 

Which party do American conservatives overwhelmingly vote with?  Stop making distinctions without any real differences.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #23 of 71

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I've pointed to the definition and explained how this situation fits.  You've just said 'NO IT DOESN'T LIBERALS ARE STUPID'.  Facts...republicans just seem to hate 'em.  You aren't entitled to your own set of them, sorry.

 

You've pointed towards your interpretation and explained why you feel it fits.  I simply disagree.  I don't think liberals are stupid, nor did I post that above.  What did was lay out how the Left likes to use topics like this to avoid debate of real issues.  Why engage Paul Ryan in the arena of ideas when we can call him a a flopping, hypocritical, lying heartless bastard?  It's much easier that way.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #24 of 71
Thread Starter 

That's your spin.  I see the guy lying to his constituents.  He now claims that Ayn Rand's ideas are anathema to his.  Yet..HIS POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS DO NOT CHANGE AND STILL REFLECT HER SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLE-ISM.  That damn well is hypocrisy and damn well is an important thing to talk about.  In an election year, he is attempting to portray himself as someone who he clearly is not.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #25 of 71

BR, I'd argue you've lost all right to call others out on their hypocrisy given your obvious hypocrisies. To wit:

 

You call out others for being religious bigots while being one yourself.

You call out others for wanting to force their values and morality on other while wanting to do the same thing yourself.

You call out others for their alleged absence of logic while flooding the forums with fallacies of your own.

You call out others for their alleged rejection of science while regularly displaying your own lack of scientific reasoning.

 

You pointing out the hypocrisy of others is ironic indeed.

 

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #26 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

BR, I'd argue you've lost all right to call others out on their hypocrisy given your obvious hypocrisies. To wit:

You call out others for being religious bigots while being one yourself.
You call out others for wanting to force their values and morality on other while wanting to do the same thing yourself.
You call out others for their alleged absence of logic while flooding the forums with fallacies of your own.
You call out others for their alleged rejection of science while regularly displaying your own lack of scientific reasoning.

You pointing out the hypocrisy of others is ironic indeed.

I'd contest each and every one of those points you assert, but regardless, even if all true (which they fucking aren't), it wouldn't change the facts of the matter.

Here is a link to the audio directly from "The Atlas Society."
Quote:
Some exerpts from the audio (with minute and second markers):

(1:45) I just want to speak to you a little bit about Ayn Rand and what she meant to me in my life and [in] the fight we’re engaged here in Congress. I grew up on Ayn Rand, that’s what I tell people..you know everybody does their soul-searching, and trying to find out who they are and what they believe, and you learn about yourself.

(2:01) I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff. We start with Atlas Shrugged. People tell me I need to start with The Fountainhead then go to Atlas Shrugged [laughter]. There’s a big debate about that. We go to Fountainhead, but then we move on, and we require Mises and Hayek as well.

"I always go back to... Francisco d’Anconia’s speech [in Atlas Shrugged] on money when I think about monetary policy."
(2:23) But the reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand. And the fight we are in here, make no mistake about it, is a fight of individualism versus collectivism.

(2:38) In almost every fight we are involved in here, on Capitol Hill, whether it’s an amendment vote that I’ll take later on this afternoon, or a big piece of policy we’re putting through our Ways and Means Committee, it is a fight that usually comes down to one conflict: individualism vs. collectivism.

(2:54) And so when you take a look at where we are today, ah, some would say we’re on offense, some would say we’re on defense, I’d say it’s a little bit of both. And when you look at the twentieth-century experiment with collectivism—that Ayn Rand, more than anybody else, did such a good job of articulating the pitfalls of statism and collectivism—you can’t find another thinker or writer who did a better job of describing and laying out the moral case for capitalism than Ayn Rand.

(3: 21) It’s so important that we go back to our roots to look at Ayn Rand’s vision, her writings, to see what our girding, under-grounding [sic] principles are. I always go back to, you know, Francisco d’Anconia’s speech (at Bill Taggart’s wedding) on money when I think about monetary policy. And then I go to the 64-page John Galt speech, you know, on the radio at the end, and go back to a lot of other things that she did, to try and make sure that I can check my premises so that I know that what I’m believing and doing and advancing are square with the key principles of individualism…

(6:53) Is this an easy fight? Absolutely not…But if we’re going to actually win this we need to make sure that we’re solid on premises, that our principles are well-defended, and if want to go and articulately defend these principles and what they mean to our society, what they mean for the trends that we set internationally, we have to go back to Ayn Rand. Because there is no better place to find the moral case for capitalism and individualism than through Ayn Rand’s writings and works.

That doesn't mesh with Paul Ryan now saying, "I reject her philosophy…. It’s an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview." That doesn't mesh with Paul Ryan now saying, "You know you’ve arrived in politics when you have an urban legend about you, and this one is mine,” (in reference to his purported obsession with author and philosopher Ayn Rand).

MJ, your ad hominem (an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it) attack on me does not invalidate the facts I have presented about Paul Ryan.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #27 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'd contest each and every one of those points you assert...

 

Of course you would.

 

 

Quote:

MJ, your ad hominem (an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it) attack on me does not invalidate the facts I have presented about Paul Ryan.

 

I didn't claim it did. It wasn't an attempt to negate the truth of your claim. It was an attempt to illuminate your own hypocrisies.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 71
Thread Starter 

Oh, so it was offtopic and irrelevant.  A distraction.  Gotcha.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #29 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Oh, so it was offtopic and irrelevant.  A distraction.  Gotcha.

 

Not at all.

 

The topic is hypocrisy. You are the thread starter and are relishing in pointing out the hypocrisy of others, I thought it would be relevant (and fun) to point out your many hypocrisies.

 

That's all.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #30 of 71
Thread Starter 

The topic is Paul Ryan, not me.  Save your nonsense for a private message if you really want to.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The topic is Paul Ryan, not me.  Save your nonsense for a private message if you really want to.

 

I thought the topic was Paul Ryan's hypocrisy as told by BR. lol.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #32 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That's your spin.  I see the guy lying to his constituents.  He now claims that Ayn Rand's ideas are anathema to his.  Yet..HIS POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS DO NOT CHANGE AND STILL REFLECT HER SELF-RIGHTEOUS ASSHOLE-ISM.  That damn well is hypocrisy and damn well is an important thing to talk about.  In an election year, he is attempting to portray himself as someone who he clearly is not.

 

I see.  So different interpretations are now "spin."  Jesus. You just truly cannot accept other views, can you?  I view his comments as POSSIBLE pandering if they are looked at a certain way.  That's my view.  It's not spin.  You don't have to agree, nor do I need to care what you think.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

BR, I'd argue you've lost all right to call others out on their hypocrisy given your obvious hypocrisies. To wit:

 

You call out others for being religious bigots while being one yourself.

You call out others for wanting to force their values and morality on other while wanting to do the same thing yourself.

You call out others for their alleged absence of logic while flooding the forums with fallacies of your own.

You call out others for their alleged rejection of science while regularly displaying your own lack of scientific reasoning.

 

You pointing out the hypocrisy of others is ironic indeed.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The topic is Paul Ryan, not me.  Save your nonsense for a private message if you really want to.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I thought the topic was Paul Ryan's hypocrisy as told by BR. lol.gif

 

It's the topic only because BR has no desire to actually discuss Paul Ryan's ideas.  Just  like the rest of the fascist Left. 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #33 of 71
Thread Starter 

Fact:  Paul Ryan attended an Atlas Society meeting and espoused how vital Rand's teachings were to his pursuit of public office and policy recommendations.

Fact:  Paul Ryan is now trying to distance himself from Ayn Rand, claiming that his love for Rand was just rumor and innuendo.

Fact:  Paul Ryan's budget recommendations reflect Randian economic views.

 

You don't see any inconsistencies here, SDW?  You can call the left names all you want and claim that you have a different opinion.  However, if that opinion isn't based in reality, your opinion is useless.  Either contest the facts or shut up.  If I'm wrong in asserting something to be fact, I'll happily be swayed by evidence to the contrary.  You have not provided any evidence at all supporting your claims...you have simply said you disagreed.  Well, great.  Your disagreement devoid of evidence is useless.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 71

The topic is BR ranting about his DailyKos talking point of the day. I know because I get the emails.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #35 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Fact:  Paul Ryan attended an Atlas Society meeting and espoused how vital Rand's teachings were to his pursuit of public office and policy recommendations.

Fact:  Paul Ryan is now trying to distance himself from Ayn Rand, claiming that his love for Rand was just rumor and innuendo.

Fact:  Paul Ryan's budget recommendations reflect Randian economic views.

 

You don't see any inconsistencies here, SDW?  You can call the left names all you want and claim that you have a different opinion.  However, if that opinion isn't based in reality, your opinion is useless.  Either contest the facts or shut up.  If I'm wrong in asserting something to be fact, I'll happily be swayed by evidence to the contrary.  You have not provided any evidence at all supporting your claims...you have simply said you disagreed.  Well, great.  Your disagreement devoid of evidence is useless.

 

As tonton was fond of stating, "you're an 11 on the asshole meter today."   

 

So one more time, BR:  My only point is that I don't see this as "hypocrisy."   At worst, it's pandering...possibly flopping.   That's where the difference of opinion is.  It's like me saying "I'm not conservative" for political reasons, but then laying out a platform that seems awfully conservative.  It's not hypocrisy...it's just politics.  Ryan may or may not be guilty as sin on that point, but I don't view it as "hypocrisy."  Hypocrisy would be Paul Ryan saying "people that cheat on their wives are bad" while cheating on his own wife.  Hypocrisy would be accusing someone of spin in one thread while...eh...spinning in another.  ;)

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #36 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Which party do American conservatives overwhelmingly vote with?  Stop making distinctions without any real differences.

There's a fundamental difference. Just because someone might vote for one party does not in any way mean that the party speaks for them. Most people don't know or even care who Ayn Rand is. They sure don't let Paul Ryan tell them how to think.

post #37 of 71
Thread Starter 

Paul Ryan is the person introducing these Republican budgets.  People should care about what Paul Ryan has to say.  People should care who his influences are.  They don't call the Republican budget proposal "The Ryan Plan" for no reason.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #38 of 71

I am a trumpet player. When I was growing up I read a half dozen biographies on Louis Armstrong. I really appreciated his contributions to the world of jazz.

 

He also smoked pot daily and outlived five wives, many that he was alleged to have cheated on.

 

I can take the one and leave the other.

 

BR says this is impossible.

 

Anyone who says this is impossible is retarded and a troll.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #39 of 71

I have a question?

 

Since when did Republicans start sounding like a bunch of whinny-ass liberals?

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #40 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I have a question?

 

Was that it?

 

lol.gif

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Memo to Conservatives: You now no longer publicly acknowledge Ayn Rand's influence in your policies; back to lip service pretending you don't