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Quality of discussions, trolls and Apple fanatics

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

OK, this is a board for people who like Apple products, I get it.  I like Apple products, too.  But the situation on these boards is ridiculous.  

 

It has become almost impossible to say anything that questions Apple in any way without mindlessly agressive responses and more often than not a few 'go away troll's.  There was always this issue to a degree, but now it seems to have taken over completely, with even users who seem to be moderators encouraging it.  Without any opposing view points, there are no worthwhile discussions any more.  

 

I stopped commenting here a while and moved to another, more balanced board, but I still enjoy Appleinsider's news stories and sometimes find myself checking out the comments.  I always leave in disbelief!  

 

It's looking a little emptier here than it used to, and you've redesigned the forums, perhaps to try and tempt people back.  So I'm posting so you know why one person left, and maybe there are others who feel the same way.  The redesign is nice, but without a bit more open mindedness, it's just a bunch of people agreeing with each other, which is not interesting.

post #2 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by delany View Post
It has become almost impossible to say anything that questions Apple in any way without mindlessly agressive responses and more often than not a few 'go away troll's.  There was always this issue to a degree, but now it seems to have taken over completely, with even users who seem to be moderators encouraging it.  Without any opposing view points, there are no worthwhile discussions any more.

 

Where do you not see opposing viewpoints running rampant? We have plenty of long-standing users who exist for the sole purpose of being contrary to Apple, and while they're often called trolls, they're not banned. 

 

Quote:

  …another, more balanced board…

 

If I may, which board is this?

 

Quote:

…but without a bit more open mindedness, it's just a bunch of people agreeing with each other…

 

I can tell you're not here enough, then.

 

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 

I don't know Appleinsider's business or who it's trying to appeal to, but to a casual reader who pops in a few times a week, arguments about just how great Apple is are not the same thing as actual discussions about the state of Apple and Apple-related products.  I may not be here enough - and, again, it's up to Appleinsider as to who it wants to get its revenue from - but from my perspective the people who are labelled trolls seem to be making reasonable points and most of the 'arguments' between non-trolls are over details that ignore any larger point that doesn't involve Apple being the best.  As a casual visitor it's like watching two parents argue passionately over which of their young children is the best golf player and being told to shut up when you mention the idea of handicaps, the PGA or, say, Tiger Woods.  That's fine for the parents, and I'm sure Appleinsider will do just fine, but if the powers that be want another perspective, that was mine.  


Edited by delany - 4/27/12 at 1:51pm
post #4 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by delany View Post

I don't know Appleinsider's business or who it's trying to appeal to, but to a casual reader who pops in a few times a week, arguments about just how great Apple is are not the same thing as actual discussions about the state of Apple and Apple-related products.  I may not be here enough - and, again, it's up to Appleinsider as to who it wants to get its revenue from - but from my perspective the people who are labelled trolls seem to be making reasonable points and most of the 'arguments' between non-trolls are over details that ignore any larger point that doesn't involve Apple being the best.  As a casual visitor it's like watching two parents argue passionately over which of their young children is the best golf player and being told to shut up when you mention the idea of handicaps, the PGA or, say, Tiger Woods.  That's fine for the parents, and I'm sure Appleinsider will do just fine, but if the powers that be want another perspective, that was mine.  

I think you're missing out on the trolls and why they're a bother. There are several problems:

1. They spread false information. In fact, one troll created two fake reviews of the iPhone. Clearly, fake information has the potential to make users believe something that isn't so.

2. They almost never have anything useful to add. I've hear 10,000 times that Android is better because it's 'open', but no one has ever given me a reason why it would matter to me, as an average user.

3. They keep posting the same falsehoods, so Apple fans have to spend countless hours correcting them so that others are not misled. Do you have any idea how many times I've had to point out that Apple didn't steal the GUI from Xerox and actually paid for rights to use what they saw at Xerox (which wasn't all that much, anyway). The same falsehoods get repeated enough that they become urban myth.

4. They make meaningful discussion difficult because they make the people who are here to talk about Apple products defensive (for the reasons above).


It's like this:
I can understand why someone would want to go to a BMW site to brag about their BMW. Or to ask questions about BMWs. Or to compare BMWs to other cars. Or even just to hang out with other BMW fans. What I can't understand is the person who owns a Mercedes, never owned a BMW, swears that he'd die before owning a BMW, and then coming to a BMW site with no purpose other than being annoying and putting down the BMW fans. And even making up a fake review to tell people how bad BMWs are. To me, that strikes me as a fairly significant mental illness, yet there are thousands of people who do exactly that when it comes to Apple - and it's supposed to be OK?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #5 of 7
We get so many trolls that honest, innocent disagreement is easily mislabeled. Why so many Apple haters feel compeled to stop here and shit all over an Apple board, I don't know.
post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

We get so many trolls that honest, innocent disagreement is easily mislabeled. Why so many Apple haters feel compeled to stop here and shit all over an Apple board, I don't know.

 

This.  Pre-iOS, when we weren't getting so many belligerent Android (and lately Samsung) types, their was just a handful of "Ha ha, stupid sheep, you polish the knob of your lord and master and don't even care that they're ripping you off" type posters.  There was plenty of spirited debate about the pros and cons of Apple's doings, but they were in good faith and among actual users of the platform.

 

Now, the attacks (not just on Apple but on their users) come so thick that it's no surprise that people who might otherwise be willing to discuss perceived blunders tend to circle the wagons a bit.  Remember, for any long time Apple user, there has never been a time when they weren't mocked and jeered at for being mindless drones, fetishists, clueless, and possibly gay posers.  Now that Apple is thoroughly mainstream, I, for one, have little tolerance for this kind of insipid bullshit and am happy to say so.

You can't stop it.
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You can't stop it.
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post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by signal View Post

This.  Pre-iOS, when we weren't getting so many belligerent Android (and lately Samsung) types, their was just a handful of "Ha ha, stupid sheep, you polish the knob of your lord and master and don't even care that they're ripping you off" type posters.  There was plenty of spirited debate about the pros and cons of Apple's doings, but they were in good faith and among actual users of the platform.

Now, the attacks (not just on Apple but on their users) come so thick that it's no surprise that people who might otherwise be willing to discuss perceived blunders tend to circle the wagons a bit.  Remember, for any long time Apple user, there has never been a time when they weren't mocked and jeered at for being mindless drones, fetishists, clueless, and possibly gay posers.  Now that Apple is thoroughly mainstream, I, for one, have little tolerance for this kind of insipid bullshit and am happy to say so.

It's amazing and hilarious, now a lot of people that use Android is to be cool and non-mainstream, the very thing Apple fans have been accused of since the beginning!

As to the OP, I think don't be disheartened, I and my previous incarnations am not the best example, but substantial (even if emotional, like me) anti-Apple arguments will be taken seriously, if you ignore the rabble.
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