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Settlement talks between Apple and Samsung scheduled for May 21-22

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
A U.S. judge has scheduled court-moderated settlement talks between Apple and Samsung to take place on May 21-22 in San Francisco, Calif, in an effort to resolve a legal dispute that now includes 50 lawsuits across 10 countries.

Magistrate Judge Joseph C. Spero will oversee the talks because he is not directly involved with the lawsuit, FOSS Patents reported on Saturday.

The meetings came about after Judge Lucy Koh, the judge presiding over two suits Apple has lodged against its rival, ordered efforts toward an "Alternative Dispute Resolution." Tim Cook and Gee-Sung Choi, the chief executives at Apple and Samsung, respectively, have agreed to take part.

The May dates are several months earlier than the original 90 day deadline that Koh had set.

Spero has asked both parties to submit a statement by May 9 that will include "a candid evaluation of the parties' likelihood of prevailing on the claims and defenses." Report author Florian Mueller called the request "wishful thinking" because he doubts either company would admit that their claims are weak. He did say, however, that having a separate judge preside over the talks couldn't hurt, since there's "no way" they could cast doubt on any of their claims in front of Koh.

Recent public statements would suggest that Cook is open to negotiations with Samsung. He said last week during a quarterly earnings conference call that he would "highly prefer" to settle Apple's lawsuits against its competitors, though he also voiced his commitment to protecting the company's intellectual property. That stance would appear to be a softer one than Cook's predecessor, the late Steve Jobs, who told his biographer that he was willing to go "thermonuclear war" on Android and spend every penny of Apple's bank balance to "destroy" Google's competing operating system.

The number of lawsuits between Apple and Samsung has swelled to roughly 50 initial filings across 10 countries. Mueller also noted in his report that the rulings could affect as many as 31 countries, as one filing in Spain could affect all EU member states.



Representatives from Apple, including even Jobs himself, met with Samsung at least four times in 2010 to air its complaints. However, the two were unable to come to an agreement. Apple eventually filed its first lawsuit against Samsung last April, accusing the company of copying the look and feel of the iPhone and iPad.
post #2 of 43

Can (have?) the boxes in which the products are presented to consumers be presented in this case? I realize that's virtually unprotectable, but it's important to note.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #3 of 43
This should be a pretty short meeting.

Apple "Stop copying our stuff".

Samsung "We aren't copying your stuff".

Both, together "See you in court".

The end.
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post #4 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
Both, together "See you in court".

 

Then Apple sues Samsung for copying them. lol.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #5 of 43

I think that Apple has done what other companies wouldn't.  Make it work and make it simple.  Problem is Apple has pretty much thought of everything from the start (the first iPhone and iPad).  The other companies are having a hard time creating a product like Apples without crossing over into copyright territory.  So samsung is the one who is trying to break Apple both out and in court.  Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about.  Samsung is just flexing their muscles.

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post #6 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post
Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about.  Samsung is just flexing their muscles.

 

The problem with your theory is that its conclusion leads to the equivalent of Samsung being maimed. Samsung as the overall corporation (the one that does televisions, dishwashers, and construction equipment). If you call the mobile division the whole thing here, then it becomes the equivalent of simultaneous full-body muscle death.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #7 of 43

"Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about. Samsung is just flexing their muscles."

 

That Samsung muscle just became the number one phone manufacturer to beat out Apple, all thanks to Android.

 

post #8 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by some internet dude View Post

"Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about. Samsung is just flexing their muscles."

 

That Samsung muscle just became the number one phone manufacturer to beat out Apple, all thanks to Android.

 

 

People keep saying that but everywhere I go in the US I see way more iPhones. When on an airplane you can get a very quick survey of phones because as soon as it lands everyone pulls out their phone. Last week I was on a couple flights and overwhelming majority of phones were iPhones. Maybe it is the specific types of places I go or the type of people I know but I'm just not seeing as many Android phones as iPhones.

 

In Central America I see mostly BB and some iPhones almost zero Androids.

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post #9 of 43

Since Tim Cook claims to dislike litigation, let's hope they can work out a deal - Apple has precious little to show for it's 'nuclear' legal strategy except for enriching lawyers on both sides.  

 

 

post #10 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

I think that Apple has done what other companies wouldn't.  Make it work and make it simple.  Problem is Apple has pretty much thought of everything from the start (the first iPhone and iPad).  The other companies are having a hard time creating a product like Apples without crossing over into copyright territory.  So samsung is the one who is trying to break Apple both out and in court.  Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about.  Samsung is just flexing their muscles.

 

The problems in your logic annoy me, but I'll just say to look up the difference between a copyright and a patent.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

People keep saying that but everywhere I go in the US I see way more iPhones. When on an airplane you can get a very quick survey of phones because as soon as it lands everyone pulls out their phone. Last week I was on a couple flights and overwhelming majority of phones were iPhones. Maybe it is the specific types of places I go or the type of people I know but I'm just not seeing as many Android phones as iPhones.

 

In Central America I see mostly BB and some iPhones almost zero Androids.

 

I tend to question why it matters. Neither company appears to be headed toward flat growth or decline over the next few years. I see more iphones too, but they're still growing. It's not like when everyone who owned a blackberry immediately switched to an iphone (still freaks me out how fast that happened).

post #11 of 43
The whole worldwide copyright scene is in chaos. In reality, the best you can do is out innovate, take the lead, and hold it long enough to make a killing before the copycats catch up as they will inevitably. Then innovate again. Rinse and repeat.
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post #12 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by some internet dude View Post

"Apple really doesn't have anything to worry about. Samsung is just flexing their muscles."

 

That Samsung muscle just became the number one phone manufacturer to beat out Apple, all thanks to Android.

 

 

Samsung is doing amazingly well.  Nobody else is making as many waves, and nobody else has such a variety of category-leading (or founding) products.

 

And some of them have been more than just minor hits.  The Galaxy S2 was a serious entrant, as is the Note.  The rumors of the S3 say that it has promise of greatness.

 

Other divisions of Samsung are also doing well.  The semiconductor side is notable for their production expertise.

 

They seem like they are quickly becoming dominant in many areas.  Is that the case?

post #13 of 43

You really can't go by that type of statistical survey to determine anything. Your base population is far too small and doesn't truly represent a fair selection of the american population. I work at a job where I do get to see a very diverse cross section of the American Population and even then as a Tech Support representative for AT&T I still don’t use my job to give me an idea of what Americans are using for phones. I do not get the people like our selves who are very tech savvy or prepaid plans. For me I just go with what the pollsters say. iPhones take probably between 40-60% of post paid smartphone service plans in the United States while it will most likely only make up between 1-5% of prepaid plans where android is the dominant (only) choice.  

post #14 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post

Since Tim Cook claims to dislike litigation, let's hope they can work out a deal - Apple has precious little to show for it's 'nuclear' legal strategy except for enriching lawyers on both sides.  

 

 

 

 

It looks increasingly as if the Global Thermonuclear War is about to fizzle.  I think that is likely a good thing.

 

The question remains of the extent to which Apple will be willing to license its tech, and the extent to which Apple will insist that other manufacturers make product changes.

 

It will be an elaborate dance.

post #15 of 43

You just see what you wanna see, its all in your head. The numbers go against you perception of reality.
 

post #16 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by some internet dude View Post

You just see what you wanna see, its all in your head. The numbers go against you perception of reality.
 

 

No, I don't think that is the case because I don't dislike Android phones at all. I actually rather like them with the larger screen and SD card, user accessible file system, etc. but I chose iPhone because I'm quite entrenched into the entire Apple ecosystem so iPhone is just a better fit for me, and it fits in my pocket easily. I think people should choose whatever phone works for them. The mysterious Android popularity perhaps can be explained as simply a different demographic than I encounter in my daily travels. Maybe that is why the Internet usage statistics indicate that iOS is vastly more active than Android. Professional people on airplanes use their iPhones quite a bit more than the pay as you go Android user on the ground whom I interact with seldomly.


Edited by mstone - 4/29/12 at 11:54am

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post #17 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 

 

It looks increasingly as if the Global Thermonuclear War is about to fizzle.  I think that is likely a good thing.

 

The question remains of the extent to which Apple will be willing to license its tech, and the extent to which Apple will insist that other manufacturers make product changes.

 

It will be an elaborate dance.

 

Are you kidding?

 

The "thermonuclear war" is still just reaching the hearings stage and has a long way to go to reach fruition.

 

Apple sued Motorola and HTC over another six patents in Miami last month.

 

 

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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #18 of 43

Speaking on behalf of Relic I just wanted to say that it is about time Apple grew up and start conducting business the honorable, Korean way. Their accessories and packaging are so dissimilar to Apple's own, in fact, that you'd have to be looking for any likeness to notice any. If it weren't for Samsung, 20 year old POS devices that allow me to sign for 1 800 PET MEDS right at my front door, my God sometimes I am just amazed at how cool all these goodies are, you should all be too, wouldn't even exist! And for that matter, all these businesses trouncing around as if they have legal obligations to shareholders just makes me nauseous but at least they serve ice cream here.

post #19 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Then Apple sues Samsung for copying them. lol.gif

 

haha

 

I believe Samsung is stealing IP, but that is pretty funny.

post #20 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

 

People keep saying that but everywhere I go in the US I see way more iPhones. When on an airplane you can get a very quick survey of phones because as soon as it lands everyone pulls out their phone. Last week I was on a couple flights and overwhelming majority of phones were iPhones. Maybe it is the specific types of places I go or the type of people I know but I'm just not seeing as many Android phones as iPhones.

 

In Central America I see mostly BB and some iPhones almost zero Androids.

 

You remember that survey that showed that iOS users actually used their devices more? And the one before it? Oh, the one prior to that one as well? Folks may very well claim their free or cheap Android devices, and Galaxy may be off to a strong start, but the lack of security and system updates will inevitably push more folks to iOS on the high end. Android will no doubt rule the murky waters where the BOGO-happy dime chiseler dwells for years to come.

post #21 of 43

Is this argument still going on? It's clear that Samsung wanted to sell a metric-ton of phones, and decided to copy the popular phone of the time. They've been doing it for years. Before the iPhone came out, Samsung was all about making Blackberry clones, and before that they were making Palm Treo clones, and before that they were Nokia clones. Samsung is the Hyundai of mobile phones -- they reinvent themselves every five years or so, and base their new designs off of what is popular. Anyone who says that Samsung doesn't copy other companies' intellectual property needs to get their eyes checked.

 

Oh and it's no surprise that Samsung is selling more phones than Apple. At my local supermarket you can buy a Samsung-built Droid at the checkout stand for $49.99 w/o a contract. My brother-in-law forgot his cellphone when he last went on vacation, so he bought a disposable phone in Orlando -- it was a Samsung. Samsung makes a lot of inexpensive, underpowered, cheaply built mobile phones. Of course they're going to sell a gajillion of them.

post #22 of 43

 

Samsung makes some really good products, their low end stuff is garbage though. I like Android as a lot of you know and hate that about me but I only like it when it's on a good product. I really hope these Android producing companies stop making so many phones, HTC get's it now. They are going to only focus on three phones now, the ONE X, S and V, well made and covers every spectrum. Samsung, the only three phones that I like from them is the Note, SGII/SGIII and Nexus, the rest are crap. Same goes for their tablets, the Galaxy 7.7" is the only tablet that is any good, well the 8.9 isn't so bad.

Edited by Relic - 4/29/12 at 1:22pm
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post #23 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 

 

I don't hate you, and I doubt anyone here does. Some of us just think your posts are erratic and/or inaccurate.

 

Personally, I have always thought Samsung TVs were overrated, appealing to the lower-mid range of the market. Their phones have never impressed me, and in fact, annoy me nowadays because of how blatantly unoriginal they are. I respect their ability to manufacture components for companies that know how to build things though.

post #24 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

 

 

Personally, I have always thought Samsung TVs were overrated, appealing to the lower-mid range of the market.

 

Is that why Samsung absolutely dominates the 3D and Smart TV sectors?

post #25 of 43
McDonalds constantly dominates the burger markets in sales, and that domination stems from availability, affordability & quantity; not because they're making good food.
post #26 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

 

 

Is that why Samsung absolutely dominates the 3D and Smart TV sectors?

 


Left out LED. All premium baby. If these are McDonalds then little rinky dink iphones and ipads are Sam's Club hot dogs.

post #27 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Can (have?) the boxes in which the products are presented to consumers be presented in this case? I realize that's virtually unprotectable, but it's important to note.

 

Some of Apple's suits have attack Samsung for "trade dress," which is separate from patents. Trade dress issues relate copying another product to the point of confusing a consumer into thinking the two different products are the same thing. I don't believe this issue is part of the case being discussed in this thread.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #28 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

McDonalds constantly dominates the burger markets in sales, and that domination stems from availability, affordability & quantity; not because they're making good food.

 

Like you said, McDonald's is not necessarily good food. What brings a lot of people through the front door is that, good or not, it's predictable. You KNOW what kind of experience you're going to have.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #29 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

 

People keep saying that but everywhere I go in the US I see way more iPhones. When on an airplane you can get a very quick survey of phones because as soon as it lands everyone pulls out their phone. Last week I was on a couple flights and overwhelming majority of phones were iPhones. Maybe it is the specific types of places I go or the type of people I know but I'm just not seeing as many Android phones as iPhones.

 

Yes, if you were to travel USA in a bus, you'd see far fewer iPhones and a lot of bottom-end throw away phones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

 

You remember that survey that showed that iOS users actually used their devices more? And the one before it? Oh, the one prior to that one as well? Folks may very well claim their free or cheap Android devices, and Galaxy may be off to a strong start, but the lack of security and system updates will inevitably push more folks to iOS on the high end. Android will no doubt rule the murky waters where the BOGO-happy dime chiseler dwells for years to come.

 

Since iOS users use their phones more, it is more profitable for the carriers to have more iOS customers. Even Google makes more money off of iOS users doing searches than they do from the Android users. It's very possible that the future you suggest will come to be. The more Android fractures into bits, the less it will be talked about as a single OS or user experience. It will become more like the OS used in your microwave or automobile. No one knows or cares what it is because they only expect it to be of limited utility. 

 

iOS may well become the choice of users that expect high utility, high security, and easy immediate synchronization with the rest of their iOS devices. Most markets have room for one to three major players, so the guessing game at present is who might that other player(s) be in addition to Apple?

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #30 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Are you kidding?

 

The "thermonuclear war" is still just reaching the hearings stage and has a long way to go to reach fruition.

 

Apple sued Motorola and HTC over another six patents in Miami last month.

 

 

Yes. The wheels of justice tend to move slowly and not at all like we'd expect a "thermonuclear war" to go. I suspect that Apple has more to gain than just stopping other manufacturers from copying them. They are also serving notice to everyone that is manufacturing anything that MAY be too close to Apple's IP to pause and ask themselves, "Can we afford to have to deal with Apple over this issue?"

 

Part of what Apple's disruptive presence brought to the iDevice markets is the wholesale copying that had ben going on has been brought up short. Apple is saying loud and clear, "Not with our IP!" Samsung is having the hardest time of "getting" that message. Microsoft has spent going onto 6 years to come to market with an OS that is wholly native to themselves. Steve Jobs expected to have a 5 year window for Apple's iOS to dominate, he underestimated the note-taking ability of the Google spy at the boardroom table. That's one reason why Apple has focused on attacking the manufacturers that rely on Android for their OS>

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #31 of 43

Apple has won the market cap and profits war.  Samsung may be doing ok with smart phones, but they are not going anywhere with tablets, laptops, PCs, content.  In the end, the consumer profits will go where there are integrated solutions, i.e., the Apple ecosystem.  Apple may find it advantageous to agree to a x-licensing of the non-core features.  Also, Apple is able to wean away from Samsung components like display, Flash and even CPU fab outsourcing.

 

With a $millions spent on lawyers, courts Apple has failed to achieve a decisive victory.  Better to spend the money and effort on innovation.  I do not want marginal upgrades like the 4S.  They need to make disruptive innovations.  

post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post
I do not want marginal upgrades like the 4S.

 

Reading, reading, agreeing with most of it, and then I get to this and realize you're not worth listening to.

 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #33 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post
I do not want marginal upgrades like the 4S.

 

Reading, reading, agreeing with most of it, and then I get to this and realize you're not worth listening to.

 

 

 

You have an interesting litmus test.  

post #34 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post
You have an interesting litmus test.  

 

Objectivity might seem that way to some.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #35 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tune View Post

 

 

Is that why Samsung absolutely dominates the 3D and Smart TV sectors?

 

In terms of picture quality, I disagree that they "dominate". The correct phrase would be "suit my preferences". Pioneer Elite plasma displays "dominate" picture quality, in my opinion.

post #36 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoanderson View Post

McDonalds constantly dominates the burger markets in sales, and that domination stems from availability, affordability & quantity; not because they're making good food.

 

Samsung is McDonalds with an 82" Touchscreen costing $60,000?

post #37 of 43

 

North America last quarter ; 3D TVs they held 53.3%, in Smart TVs they had 47.3%, both exceeded the market share of the next 3 largest competitors combined. In LED they had 48.2% of TVs 40” and higher.

post #38 of 43

I don't really understand the Samsung sales numbers, anecdotally. I'm constantly in a wide variety of environments, and travel frequently to cities in the US and Canada. Educational institutions, malls, bookstores, coffee shops, out on the street, walmart, business meetings, airports, planes, etc and 7/10 if someone has a smartphone its an iphone. The other 3/10 times it's either a BB or a random Android phone. I can't wrap my my head around these numbers since I hardly see samsung phones in the wild. Where are they all going? Or are they crazy popular in some european/middle-eastern countries or whatever? 

post #39 of 43

Here's another story that must have more to it. Microsoft has an ongoing lawsuit against the B&N Nook for patent infringement, a case that's taken a couple of nasty turns. Today's story from the Associated Press? Microsoft has partnered with Barnes & Noble, making a $300M investment in a new B&N subsidiary to market textbooks. They've also granted B&N a license to Microsoft's applicable patents. My guess is that there must have been some teeth in B&N's counter-claims. Simply WOW!

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/30/microsoft-barnes-noble-partner-up-to-do-battle-with-amazon-and-apple-in-e-books/
 

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post #40 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Apple has won the market cap and profits war.  Samsung may be doing ok with smart phones, but they are not going anywhere with tablets, laptops, PCs, content.  In the end, the consumer profits will go where there are integrated solutions, i.e., the Apple ecosystem.  Apple may find it advantageous to agree to a x-licensing of the non-core features.  Also, Apple is able to wean away from Samsung components like display, Flash and even CPU fab outsourcing.

 

With a $millions spent on lawyers, courts Apple has failed to achieve a decisive victory.  Better to spend the money and effort on innovation.  I do not want marginal upgrades like the 4S.  They need to make disruptive innovations.  

 

Your last statement bears clarification - as it is essentially wrong. If you look carefully at how Apple has conducted its business over the years on Mac, iPod, and so on, you do not see constant disruption - because frankly consumers can't tolerate it. The disruption has to occur first, the early adopters uptake the device, then early mainstream consumers, then mainstream consumers - once the earlys demonstrate the desirability of the product. Once the mainstream is engaged, Apple systematically updates the device incrementally, with new features updates and improvements. Until they feel the market is well-positioned to adopt another disruption. Case in point: the iOS introduction in 2007 was via the iPhone and the new iPod Touch, both disruptive devices, the iPhone to the smartphone market and the iPod Touch to both the family of iPods (previously just PMP devices) and to the whole PMP and PGS markets. The ecosystem was a later development following in the wake of a small set of Apple-only application on the devices. Apple carefully introduced each step in building out the entire ecosystem, hand-holding the average consumer into accepting the improvements over time. To introduce the entire ecosystem all at once at the inception would have been ok for the early adopters but would have overwhelmed the early mainstream and mainstream consumers.

 

Further to my point, the iPhone and iPod Touch were developed after the iPad was first on the bench at Apple - but introduced first. The intelligence behind this is obvious - give the average consumer a small device that is easy for the average person to get used to, slowly build out its feature set, ecosystem and refine the user interface. Once the average consumer is used (in large enough numbers) to the disruptive device and it's ecosystem, the real disruption can occur via the iPad. The evidence of the success of this approach can be seen by the difference in the market uptake pattern. The iPhone and iPod Touch followed largely the same curve in consumer uptake. The iPad was (if you will) an INSTANT success so much so it caught Apple (and all the assorted pundits, etc) by surprise. They had forgotten the potential effect of the groundwork they had laid for the iPad introduction, in the previous device releases. The 4S is the same sort of incremental upgrade that Apple has done for the entire device series - the disruption occured with the original iPhone - not the later models. So no, they DO NOT need to make disruptive innovations, unless they want to alienate the average consumer - which they obviously don't.

 

I think that Apple's approach in very intelligent and demonstrates they understand consumer mentality pretty well. In fact how's your multi-billion dollar international corporation doing these days? Is it a match for the vigor of Apple? *wink*

 

Consumers actually dislike serial disruptions - too much change is not acceptable nor desired.

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