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Where's the new stuff?

post #1 of 61
Thread Starter 

Where are the invites to special events?  It's May.  Does it strike anyone else as odd that Apple has only made one major announcement this year?  Why would Apple wait to make all of its major hardware announcements at the Worldwide Developers Conference on June 11th?  I would think they'd focus solely on OS X & iOS there.  In the past Apple sprinkled its product announcements throughout the year, whether it was MacBook Pro or iMac or iPhone.  Thus far in 2012 we only have the new iPad — in a year that Tim Cook announced was "just the beginning." Good start, but it's since fallen flat.  Intel has new processors for MacBook Pros and Mac Pros ready to go.  So where's the new stuff?

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post #2 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post
Does it strike anyone else as odd that Apple has only made one major announcement this year?

 

Not really.

 

Quote:
Why would Apple wait to make all of its major hardware announcements at the Worldwide Developers Conference on June 11th?

 

I know; that just makes no sense at all, does it? I certainly hope that's not what they do.

 

Quote:
I would think they'd focus solely on OS X & iOS there.

 

I would HOPE they'd focus solely on OS X and iOS there… 

 

Quote:

Good start, but it's since fallen flat.

 

Not like there's no precedent for that. 2007 was "the year of the Mac". Look how well THAT worked: "Computer" removed from the company name, Leopard pushed back to make way for a phone, virtually no actual Mac announcements at all…

 

Quote:

Intel has new processors for MacBook Pros and Mac Pros ready to go.  So where's the new stuff?

 

If they're doing with the MacBook Pro line what I think they're doing, they have to wait for MacBook Air chips to be available before they can announce either line.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #3 of 61

It would be nice to see a quad-core/discrete graphics mini for $999.

post #4 of 61
I would like to see an external graphics card similar to what Sony introduced last year that connects via Thunderbird. That way I could use it on my Mini and MacBook Air. I know you can now buy an external PCIe box with four slots but it costs a small fortune.
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post #5 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Where are the invites to special events?  It's May.  Does it strike anyone else as odd that Apple has only made one major announcement this year?  Why would Apple wait to make all of its major hardware announcements at the Worldwide Developers Conference on June 11th?  I would think they'd focus solely on OS X & iOS there.  In the past Apple sprinkled its product announcements throughout the year, whether it was MacBook Pro or iMac or iPhone.  Thus far in 2012 we only have the new iPad — in a year that Tim Cook announced was "just the beginning." Good start, but it's since fallen flat.  Intel has new processors for MacBook Pros and Mac Pros ready to go.  So where's the new stuff?

Why would you take executive speak to mean anything? Second note that we haven't seen a lot of components shipping in volume. Intel got burned with early Sandy Bridge issues last year, so they are being more cautious on their releases. You'll see Ivy Bridge Macs before too long. The iphone was updated late last year, so it's not really due for an update yet. The people who expected another within a few months were just those who didn't like the update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I would like to see an external graphics card similar to what Sony introduced last year that connects via Thunderbird. That way I could use it on my Mini and MacBook Air. I know you can now buy an external PCIe box with four slots but it costs a small fortune.

You don't seem to be alone in this kind of thinking, but it still makes no sense to me. At the point you start investing quite a lot in the mini, the imac starts to make seemingly more sense for most things. With the Air, I really don't understand. I mean is it that you just require the option of bringing them along occasionally? Keep in mind that the air also has a lower bandwidth chip. Anyway I doubt Apple will do this, so you'd be dependent on a third party. Unless the Windows side adopts thunderbolt with a matching connector, the prices are likely to remain high due to an extremely limited market for this kind of thing. Note how exotic accessories often seem overpriced.

post #6 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Why would you take executive speak to mean anything? Second note that we haven't seen a lot of components shipping in volume. Intel got burned with early Sandy Bridge issues last year, so they are being more cautious on their releases. You'll see Ivy Bridge Macs before too long. The iphone was updated late last year, so it's not really due for an update yet. The people who expected another within a few months were just those who didn't like the update.

I'm not too concerned with the iOS products.  They're OK, and they've got an obvious trend.  The Mac stuff on the other hand...  I understand that some components aren't shipping in volume but geez, that Mac Pro offering is very stale and I believe those parts are available now, yes?

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post #7 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post
The Mac stuff on the other hand...  I understand that some components aren't shipping in volume but geez, that Mac Pro offering is very stale and I believe those parts are available now, yes?

 

As of only a month or so ago. None of Apple's competitors are shipping Sandy Bridge Xeons yet, even.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #8 of 61
Thread Starter 

I'm starting to grow weary, forgive me.  It seems like things are taking a really long time.

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post #9 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post
I'm starting to grow weary, forgive me.  It seems like things are taking a really long time.

 

My mom's waiting for the new MacBook Pro (well, MacBook, if things go well) line, too. She's no techie, but she asks me every day, "Did they announce the new ones yet?"

 

There's a song from the early '80s, I believe, that sums this up well.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #10 of 61
Well you aren't they only one wondering!

They probably have technology coming together outside of the Intel chips. This may require a wait but I dont see WWDC as the hold up for the Laptops. The more we wait he more I think major overhal.

You concerns are noted but this isn't the first time Apple has waited to WWDC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Where are the invites to special events?  It's May.  Does it strike anyone else as odd that Apple has only made one major announcement this year?  Why would Apple wait to make all of its major hardware announcements at the Worldwide Developers Conference on June 11th?  I would think they'd focus solely on OS X & iOS there.  In the past Apple sprinkled its product announcements throughout the year, whether it was MacBook Pro or iMac or iPhone.  Thus far in 2012 we only have the new iPad — in a year that Tim Cook announced was "just the beginning." Good start, but it's since fallen flat.  Intel has new processors for MacBook Pros and Mac Pros ready to go.  So where's the new stuff?
post #11 of 61

Yeah Dell doesn't even have the configuration options up for their new workstations yet. I at least like messing around with the configurations for fun.

post #12 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I'm not too concerned with the iOS products.  They're OK, and they've got an obvious trend.  The Mac stuff on the other hand...  I understand that some components aren't shipping in volume but geez, that Mac Pro offering is very stale and I believe those parts are available now, yes?

Technically it is available, but it hasn't been widely adopted in shipping machines yet. Intel wanted to be able to say they were launched, so they got it to that point. Overall they've been far more cautious this year given the Sandy Bridge issues last year. Stepping problems were rumored to push back Sandy Bridge E before. I can't remember what caused problems with the initial Sandy Bridge release. Anyway I don't think they want to eat a huge loss again.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
 This may require a wait but I dont see WWDC as the hold up for the Laptops. The more we wait he more I think major overhal.
You concerns are noted but this isn't the first time Apple has waited to WWDC.

I don't think they've announced much in the way of hardware at WWDC over the past couple years.

post #13 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I'm starting to grow weary, forgive me.  It seems like things are taking a really long time.

 

It's been 196 days since the last Macbook Pro update, more than a month less than even the shortest previous gap between updates. Although the last one was only a minor bump.

 

On the other hand it's over a year since the iMac got even a minor bump, the longest ever gap.

 

I'd have thought they'll certainly announce iMacs at the developers conference, possibly along with the new Macbook line, with or without the Pro suffix.

 

But yeah, it does feel like an age since anything happened. I'm having to fight off buying an iPad just out of pure boredom.

post #14 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

As of only a month or so ago. None of Apple's competitors are shipping Sandy Bridge Xeons yet, even.

HP sure the hell is. I just configured one last week! Sorry, but Apple is out of exuses.
post #15 of 61
The Mini and Air chips don't come out until June 5th so that puts them out for now.

The iMac chips are out and the update is long overdue but I expect it will lose the optical drive, which means a redesign.

The Macbook Pro chips are out but only for the 15", not the 13".

The Mac Pro chips are out but they aren't significantly faster and the Mac Pro needs a redesign due to Thunderbolt. It may not be updated at all though.

They could possibly update the iMac without an event but resolution independence is an important development for the iMac so I think they'd rather ship the new machines with 10.8.

While there could be an event for the MBP, it would leave the 13" MBP sitting without a redesign in the same group as redesigned 15" models and resolution independence matters for laptops too.

IMO, this points to all updates coming after 10.8 is released at WWDC. It's only 4 weeks away and a special event would dilute the content at WWDC. I don't think Cook can carry an event with very little content so it's better to jam as much into the keynote as possible.
post #16 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
1. The Mac Pro chips are out but they aren't significantly faster and the Mac Pro needs a redesign due to Thunderbolt. It may not be updated at all though.
2. They could possibly update the iMac without an event but resolution independence is an important development for the iMac so I think they'd rather ship the new machines with 10.8.
3. While there could be an event for the MBP, it would leave the 13" MBP sitting without a redesign in the same group as redesigned 15" models and resolution independence matters for laptops too.
4. IMO, this points to all updates coming after 10.8 is released at WWDC. It's only 4 weeks away and a special event would dilute the content at WWDC. I don't think Cook can carry an event with very little content so it's better to jam as much into the keynote as possible.

 

1. The Mac Pro needs Thunderbolt & an overhaul.  It just needs to come out.  This is probably the most ridiculous.

 

2.  R.I. already exists in Lion but I read it may be improving in Mountain Lion.

 

3.  Why should Apple wait?  Seems silly to me!

 

4.  Mountain Lion is a late summer release.  That could be September.  Would Apple let its hardware lines languish for Mountain Lion.  Again seems silly to me!

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post #17 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post


HP sure the hell is. I just configured one last week! Sorry, but Apple is out of exuses.

Apparently they are starting to ship. I don't see the custom configurations available on those yet, but I may have missed them. Apple has never been the first to update. A few mentally handicapped individuals claim that they get first pick on computer parts, so everyone always expects them to update before anyone else. The times that has happened, it has been explained by other factors. Now obviously they have have contracts, which would put them ahead of distributors, but that's about as far as anyone should expect it to go. They've always been pretty random. I don't think there's much that can be done about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Mac Pro chips are out but they aren't significantly faster and the Mac Pro needs a redesign due to Thunderbolt. It may not be updated at all though.

I know this is the popular rumor, but none of us have any real information on it.

post #18 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post

HP sure the hell is. I just configured one last week! Sorry, but Apple is out of exuses.

Yes but did you actually buy one and get a shipping date. I actually thinking you are running out of things to whine about.
post #19 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Yes but did you actually buy one and get a shipping date. I actually thinking you are running out of things to whine about.

 

It says, "Ships 5/16/2012".

 

But it says that even if I configure with dual top-end processors, 256 gigabytes of RAM, dual nVidia 6000 chips, and a Tegra card. So take that as you will. lol.gif

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #20 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Mini and Air chips don't come out until June 5th so that puts them out for now.
If they really wanted too, they could do a Mini with the current Ivy Bridge chips. That may mean beefing up the power supply but that isn't impossible, and they could potentially save considerable power elsewhere.

The AIRs on the other hand will not ship at all with the current IB chips.
Quote:
The iMac chips are out and the update is long overdue but I expect it will lose the optical drive, which means a redesign.
The iMac could win big time with IB. While loosing the optical is possible, the motivation to redesign should revolve around other issues. Either way I suspect the new iMacs will be very nice.
Quote:
The Macbook Pro chips are out but only for the 15", not the 13".
I'm not too sure about the 13" model. Given the right arrangement of hardware, a new 13" designed around the current IB chips would certainly stand apart from the AIRs.
Quote:
The Mac Pro chips are out but they aren't significantly faster and the Mac Pro needs a redesign due to Thunderbolt. It may not be updated at all though.
Sandy Bridge E is much faster for certain work loads. It has a much faster memory subsystem and a few other advantages. Of course it might not mean much for the average app used on the Pro.
Quote:
They could possibly update the iMac without an event but resolution independence is an important development for the iMac so I think they'd rather ship the new machines with 10.8.
10.8 has been said to come in late summer, I can't see Apple waiting that long.
Quote:
While there could be an event for the MBP, it would leave the 13" MBP sitting without a redesign in the same group as redesigned 15" models and resolution independence matters for laptops too.
IMO, this points to all updates coming after 10.8 is released at WWDC. It's only 4 weeks away and a special event would dilute the content at WWDC. I don't think Cook can carry an event with very little content so it's better to jam as much into the keynote as possible.

If new hardware comes at WWDC it will be for reasons other than 10.8.
post #21 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

It says, "Ships 5/16/2012".

 

But it says that even if I configure with dual top-end processors, 256 gigabytes of RAM, dual nVidia 6000 chips, and a Tegra card. So take that as you will. lol.gif

 

Well maybe there's hope that Mac Pro updates will happen very soon!

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post #22 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

It would be nice to see a quad-core/discrete graphics mini for $999.

I'd like to ask does Apple have a strategy for the Mini which precludes Winter from getting what he wants?

I could go for that myself. lol.gif

post #23 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I would like to see an external graphics card similar to what Sony introduced last year that connects via Thunderbird. That way I could use it on my Mini and MacBook Air. I know you can now buy an external PCIe box with four slots but it costs a small fortune.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

You don't seem to be alone in this kind of thinking, but it still makes no sense to me. At the point you start investing quite a lot in the mini, the imac starts to make seemingly more sense for most things. 

 

But the iMac has TB also... so it would be come expandable.... and when the MP get TB... expansion becomes exponential!!!!

post #24 of 61
Thread Starter 

Perhaps something is in fact happening with the Mac Pros.  Just logged into the Apple Store for Education Institutions where I buy computers for my school & it shows a 1-2 week wait time on the top end Mac Pro.  But oddly enough, when you click on it to configure it says "2-4 days."  In the past when I've seen it jump from 1-2 weeks or longer, it's a sign that updates are coming.  But all of the models need to say this (1-2 weeks).

 

Screen Shot 2012-05-07 at 4.16.25 PM.png

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post #25 of 61

absolutely agreed.

 

Although, maybe b/c AAPL destroyed the last quarter, they figured they could wait off on 'new' announcements for the lull after the storm? And, if they stretch iPhone 5 to October as per rumours, then they need jolts of sales and PR in the summer back to school season: new kind of PM and slimmer sexy screen MBP/Air. Also if this IGZO thing is true, maybe that's delayed mad thin designs and batteries etc for the latter; think that would be harder redesign than the 'plan b' iPad 3.

 

hopefully something soon....

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post #26 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneking7320 View Post

I'd like to ask does Apple have a strategy for the Mini which precludes Winter from getting what he wants?
I could go for that myself. lol.gif

So could many of us! The fundamental problem with the Mini is that performance lagged fairly badly given its price. The qualification there being that the Mini uses low power parts.

Can Winter get what he wants? With Ivy Bridge I don't think it is totally impossible. We would be talking a 35 to 45 watts processor along with a GPU and GPU memory in the box. That is a lot to deal with, though Apple might be able to limit power disapation dynamically as Ivy Bridge has support for that. In any event I consider quad core very important for any desktop purchase so they would have to do something there.

The interesting thing is the so called server model that Apple currently ships which is quad core. I believe it is a 45 watt chip, so let's think a bit about that translated to Ivy Bridge. At 45 watts you would get a respectable CPU speed increase in combo with a new generation of GPU. That would be one hot little box! Such a platform, hooked up to a decent monitor, would make a great development platform but sadly not a more general workstation. This however doesn't represent the performance you could expect out of a descrete GPU or even AMDs Fusion processors.
post #27 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanm9 View Post

 

But the iMac has TB also... so it would be come expandable.... and when the MP get TB... expansion becomes exponential!!!!

Not really. The thunderbolt controller feeds off existing lanes. You'd gain the ability to use the thunderbolt display and share accessories in breakout box form with your laptop. That could be quite valuable for some people. 

post #28 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


So could many of us! The fundamental problem with the Mini is that performance lagged fairly badly given its price. The qualification there being that the Mini uses low power parts.
Can Winter get what he wants? With Ivy Bridge I don't think it is totally impossible. We would be talking a 35 to 45 watts processor along with a GPU and GPU memory in the box. That is a lot to deal with, though Apple might be able to limit power disapation dynamically as Ivy Bridge has support for that. In any event I consider quad core very important for any desktop purchase so they would have to do something there.
The interesting thing is the so called server model that Apple currently ships which is quad core. I believe it is a 45 watt chip, so let's think a bit about that translated to Ivy Bridge. At 45 watts you would get a respectable CPU speed increase in combo with a new generation of GPU. That would be one hot little box! Such a platform, hooked up to a decent monitor, would make a great development platform but sadly not a more general workstation. This however doesn't represent the performance you could expect out of a descrete GPU or even AMDs Fusion processors.

Agreed.  The Mac community wanted a headless iMac so Apple gave them a headless MacBook and told them to like it. 

 

It would cost less to build a Mini using larger desktop components.  Add a larger case and a little more expandability, and the build cost is probably about the same.  Then there's no need to fuss over a few watts, Apple could drop in whatever CPU they pleased.  

 

The Mini is an example of Apple intentionally not building the best computer they could.  It's so obviously designed to sucker people into buying a high margin Apple product without any innovations to justify the high margins.  Totally opposite of the Mac Pro, where one look at the case, inside and out, is enough to convince anyone that it's brilliantly laid out design AND a work of art.  I've spent more time than I'd like to admit just gazing at my Mac Pro with the case open, the attention to detail and usability is simply breathtaking.  The Mac Pro shows respect for Mac users, while the Mini shows contempt.

post #29 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

Agreed.  The Mac community wanted a headless iMac so Apple gave them a headless MacBook and told them to like it. 

Exactly! Even that wouldn't be all that bad except that they never bothered to fill in the midrange with something else. The Mini wouldn't be bad as a low end machine, if it was priced a bit lower. The problem is they have yet to bother with a model that addresses performance we.
Quote:
It would cost less to build a Mini using larger desktop components.  Add a larger case and a little more expandability, and the build cost is probably about the same.  Then there's no need to fuss over a few watts, Apple could drop in whatever CPU they pleased.  
Much of that cost is not due to the chipset which at best adds a hundred or so tot he price. The problem with the Mini is that they could have targeted higher performance simply by using the mobile processor used in the MBPs. Really is it that much of a problem to have a entry level Mini and a beefed up model? By the way I don't really believe this is a power supply issue, even if I think moving the power supply internally was a mistake.
Quote:
The Mini is an example of Apple intentionally not building the best computer they could.  It's so obviously designed to sucker people into buying a high margin Apple product without any innovations to justify the high margins.  Totally opposite of the Mac Pro, where one look at the case, inside and out, is enough to convince anyone that it's brilliantly laid out design AND a work of art.  I've spent more time than I'd like to admit just gazing at my Mac Pro with the case open, the attention to detail and usability is simply breathtaking.  The Mac Pro shows respect for Mac users, while the Mini shows contempt.

 

I'm not sure I buy that it is a machine to sucker people into buying other hardware. It is a low end low power machine which many people find to be very desirable. The Mini existence isn't a problem per say. Rather it is the lack of rational mid range machines that is the problem.
post #30 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

 

I'm not sure I buy that it is a machine to sucker people into buying other hardware. It is a low end low power machine which many people find to be very desirable.

 

I wasn't very clear, what I meant was the Mini is designed to sucker people into buying the Mini, which I suspect has far higher margins than warranted for gimped, entry level product.  

 

 

 

Quote:
The Mini existence isn't a problem per say. Rather it is the lack of rational mid range machines that is the problem.

 

Totally agree.  The Mini is sufficient for the needs of many users, like my parents.  And it is nice to be able to upgrade a display or the Mini without having to replace both the display and the Mini.  That should be a given, but Apple's obstinacy regarding all in one desktops actually makes it a feature. 

post #31 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I'm starting to grow weary, forgive me.  It seems like things are taking a really long time.


I am growing weary too dude, *takes a seat next to you on bench* I've been waiting since FEB thinking the new MBP is 'right around the corner now!!! *each day goes by where I eagerly check A.I. for news that the new MBP is ready to order, then get sad when I don't see it and instead see a new 'launch' date set a month away*

post #32 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I'm starting to grow weary, forgive me.  It seems like things are taking a really long time.

I'm with you. All across the board.
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post #33 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Perhaps something is in fact happening with the Mac Pros.  Just logged into the Apple Store for Education Institutions where I buy computers for my school & it shows a 1-2 week wait time on the top end Mac Pro.  But oddly enough, when you click on it to configure it says "2-4 days."  In the past when I've seen it jump from 1-2 weeks or longer, it's a sign that updates are coming.  But all of the models need to say this (1-2 weeks).

LL

Well today it's all "in stock" as usual, and 12 core 2-4 days. It's like there is an endless supply of this old stuff. Maybe that's why. Stale technology and overpriced.
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post #34 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by xgman View Post

I'm with you. All across the board.

WWDC, WWDC!

Repeat WWDC, I'm not sure what the issue is here, just look at Apples past behavior. At best Apple will release the minor updates one to two weeks before WWDC if there are any.

Apples only real problem is Intels lack of Ivy Brdige chips suitable for some of Apples machines. That does put a kink in the program but Apple could do us all a favor and put Trintiy into things like the Mini.
post #35 of 61

The Apple store will be down tonight....

post #36 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by not1lost View Post
The Apple store will be down tonight....

 

For what?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #37 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

For what?

I just think it will

post #38 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by not1lost View Post
I just think it will

 

Mind over matter only works for your own body, not Apple release schedules. Believe me, I've tried. lol.gif

 

And developed the ability to eat just once every other day, walk without making any noise, and answer unspoken questions from the people around me! So there's that.

 

Doesn't really do much in the Apple realm.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #39 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneking7320 View Post

I'd like to ask does Apple have a strategy for the Mini which precludes Winter from getting what he wants?

I could go for that myself. lol.gif

 

I actually bought the base mini and put an SSD in it. I am happy with it. I am just saying that if Apple wanted me to spend a bit more, I would spend more based on that option.

 

@wizard69 - I don't think I will be upgrading until Haswell anyway. I was a bit disappointed by the fact that Intel cheapened out on the thermal paste for Ivy Bridge.

 

In addition, the quad/discrete option under a grand I thought would be perfect for me to play Diablo III on (as well as possibly other games in the future). Right now, I really have no interest in playing Diablo III.

post #40 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Mind over matter only works for your own body, not Apple release schedules. Believe me, I've tried. lol.gif

 

And developed the ability to eat just once every other day, walk without making any noise, and answer unspoken questions from the people around me! So there's that.

 

Doesn't really do much in the Apple realm.

I dont know about that... I'm working on Steve Jobs 'reality distortion field'....


Edited by not1lost - 5/22/12 at 12:11pm
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