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Apple looking to settle with Proview in 'iPad' trademark dispute - report

post #1 of 38
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Attorneys for Proview claim that progress is being made in the company's ongoing trademark dispute with Apple over the "iPad" name, suggesting that the company now plans to settle out of court.

Xie Xianghui, an attorney that represents Proview in the city of Shenzhen, spoke with China's Xinhua this week, and claimed that the two sides have discussed a compensation package. Apple is even said to have gone as far as proposing a settlement sum that it believes would be fair, though Proview has not agreed to any deals.

"We feel the attitude of Apple Inc. has changed," Xie said. "Although they expressed they were willing to negotiate, they have never taken any actions before, but now they are having conversations with us, and we have begun to consult ont he case."

The attorney said he believes it would be beneficial for both Apple and Proview if a settlement were to be reached "as soon as possible" between the two parties. Monday's report included analysis from a Chinese intellectual property lawyer who said it's likely Proview would eventually win its lawsuit against Apple, but receiving compensation could take many years.

Xie has been talking up the prospect of a settlement for months, as the attorney said back in February that his company was ready to engage in talks with Apple. Another lawyer representing Proview said in April that it is "likely" that Proview will reach an out-of-court settlement with Apple.

Reports even surfaced weeks ago that Apple was already in talks with Proview to settle the ongoing iPad trademark dispute. However, since then there has been no indications of ongoing talks between the two companies.

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Proview Shenzhen has asserted in legal filings, including one U.S. suit, that Apple acted "with oppression, fraud and/or malice," when it used a proxy company, U.K.-based IP Application Development, Ltd., to buy the rights to the "IPAD" name. Those rights were purchased from a Taiwanese affiliate in 2009 for a reported 35,000 British pounds, or $55,000.

Proview has argued that Apple acted fraudulently to acquire the iPad trademark, and that the purchase is void because Proview Shenzhen didn't authorize its affiliate to sell the trademark.

At its peak, Proview was the manufacturer of a stripped-down PC it called the Internet Personal Access Device, or iPAD. The company also found some success building monitors before the global financial crisis hit and pushed it into bankruptcy. Now, it's a near-dead company with its ownership of the "IPAD" name its only major asset.
post #2 of 38

Apple ready to settle in 'iPad' trademark dispute?

Two weeks after a Chinese court proposed a settlement between Apple and Proview over a disputed trademark, a Chinese government newswire report suggests Apple is pushing for its own settlement in a bid to close the complaint.

Proview lawyer Xie Xianghui told China's government newswire: "We feel that the attitude of Apple Inc. has changed. Although they expressed that they were willing to negotiate, they have never taken any action before."

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57428929-37/apple-ready-to-settle-in-ipad-trademark-dispute/

 

 

 

post #3 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



"We feel the attitude of Apple Inc. has changed," Xie said. "Although they expressed they were willing to negotiate, they have never taken any actions before, but now they are having conversations with us, and we have begun to consult ont he case."
 

 

 

So much for all the folks who claimed that Apple would never settle, because they had an open and shut case.  "Proview is all one guy!"  Heh.

 

My prediction has always been that Apple would settle for an undisclosed sum.

post #4 of 38

When operating in a lawless place like China, paying off the right people (in this case the Chinese government that made bad loans to Proview through government controlled banks) is just the cost of doing business. I would like to think at some point the extra costs of corruption and threat to IP will offset cheap labor in companies' calculations for off-shoring production, design and investment. I'm probably being too optimistic.

post #5 of 38
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Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

When operating in a lawless place like China, paying off the right people (in this case the Chinese government that made bad loans to Proview through government controlled banks) is just the cost of doing business. I would like to think at some point the extra costs of corruption and threat to IP will offset cheap labor in companies' calculations for off-shoring production, design and investment. I'm probably being too optimistic.

 

 

Another huge factor, in addition to the cost of labor and the extrinsic costs of doing business in China, is the cost of energy.

 

The US has cheap energy prices compared to China.  At some point, the energy and other savings are predicted to increase domestic manufacturing.

post #6 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 

So much for all the folks who claimed that Apple would never settle, because they had an open and shut case.  "Proview is all one guy!"  Heh.

 

My prediction has always been that Apple would settle for an undisclosed sum.

 

Of course Apple would settle. And by "settle" meaning paying Proview a fraction of what they're asking.

 

When Proview says "progress" is being made I doubt it's because Apple is shifting their position. More likely Proview realizes they aren't going to get anywhere near what they are asking and have come to the conclusion they need to be satisfied with less.

 

If it's undisclosed I bet the reason is Proview doesn't want to lose face by letting people see how little they got, rather than Apple trying to hide how much they overpaid.

post #7 of 38
I'll believe it when it happens. I'm inclined to think that Apple suddenly playing nice is just its version of a calm before the storm.
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post #8 of 38

Can you say, "saving face"?

post #9 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Proview lawyer Xie Xianghui told China's government newswire: "We feel that the attitude of Apple Inc. has changed. Although they expressed that they were willing to negotiate, they have never taken any action before."


Hmmm... So Proview's lawyer is admitting that he was lying earlier when he said that Proview was in negotiations with Apple....

Why should we believe that he's telling the truth now?
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post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Why should we believe that he's telling the truth now?

 

 

Because settlement is the best path for Apple, given the legal situation?

post #11 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post
Because settlement is the best path for Apple, given the legal situation?

 

The legal situation that we've been over dozens of times and have shown to have always been legal and in Apple's favor that you hilariously continue to ignore, you mean?

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post #12 of 38

By "settlement", he probably means he will drop his case in exchange for Apple not pursuing criminal fraud charges and allowing him to avoid summary execution ordered by the Chinese "justice" system.
 

post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post
Because settlement is the best path for Apple, given the legal situation?

 

The legal situation that we've been over dozens of times and have shown to have always been legal and in Apple's favor that you hilariously continue to ignore, you mean?

 

No, not that one.  I'm referring to Apple being bamboozled into paying a company that did not own the Chinese trademark, despite the true owner being listed in the Chinese trademark registry.

 

Seemingly, apple was defrauded.  That is an equitable argument.  Legally, Proview has the upper hand.

post #14 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 

So much for all the folks who claimed that Apple would never settle, because they had an open and shut case.  "Proview is all one guy!"  Heh.

 

My prediction has always been that Apple would settle for an undisclosed sum.

 

Up until the settlement, companies always keep up the talk. At times, they even let it come to trial (or at least a scheduled trial) before settling. My guess is the "undisclosed sum" will be relatively small (of course, we won't know for sure). Someone at Apple messed up and didn't read the fine print. The "Proview is all one guy" argument was blustering to let Proview know they wouldn't just cave easily.

post #15 of 38

Apple should pay $2 Million which should cover court costs and legal fees and then charge Proview for making a product that looks like an Apple iMac (first generation).  Both parties can go home, have a nice tall glass of cream soda and have a nice day.

post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post

When operating in a lawless place like China, paying off the right people (in this case the Chinese government that made bad loans to Proview through government controlled banks) is just the cost of doing business. I would like to think at some point the extra costs of corruption and threat to IP will offset cheap labor in companies' calculations for off-shoring production, design and investment. I'm probably being too optimistic.

You don't see much "off-shoring" of design. When it's done, design is typically "off-shored" to the U.S. by other countries.

post #17 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

Can you say, "saving face"?

I don't see how this is anything to do with "saving face" on either party's part.  "Settling" is also not a loss per se and is pretty much standard procedure in cases like this.  

 

Anyone who said Apple would "never settle" was just engaging in a little useless bravado methinks.  Either that or they don't really understand or are familiar with, the law. 

post #18 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


Because settlement is the best path for Apple, given the legal situation?

What's that got to do with the fact that Proview's lawyer just admitted that he was lying earlier?
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post #19 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


Because settlement is the best path for Apple, given the legal situation?

What's that got to do with the fact that Proview's lawyer just admitted that he was lying earlier?

 

You need to demonstrate that to be the case.  I don'r really know what facts you are relying on.

post #20 of 38

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post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


What's that got to do with the fact that Proview's lawyer just admitted that he was lying earlier?

Now, now, since when has ZZZ ever used factual logic to defend an opinion? ZZZ always runs deflectors on full power after dropping the usual class of opinion.

 

Just sayin'... ;)

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post #22 of 38

Proview 1.png

Proview 2.png

Proview 3.png

 

Why the HECK does it make them smaller as they go along? Oh gosh, it's weighted based on file size…

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post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Proview 1.png

Proview 2.png

Proview 3.png

 

Why the HECK does it make them smaller as they go along?

 

 

Likely there is a maximum image height.

post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Now, now, since when has ZZZ ever used factual logic to defend an opinion? ZZZ always runs deflectors on full power after dropping the usual class of opinion.

Just sayin'... 1wink.gif

zzz is even worse than that. Look on the bottom of this page. There's a section called 'recent reviews'. Until today, zzz had a review for both the iPhone 3GS and the iPhone 4 (it may have been the 4S). Of course, he panned both of them.

Now, I don't believe for a minute that he even owns one of those phones, much less both of them. Furthermore, it is not surprising that he would pan what virtually everyone else recognized as one of the best phones (if not the best) available. Clearly, he went so far as to completely fabricate a review without any basis. The review has been taken down, so someone must have discovered his deception.

Once again, I have to wonder. I can understand a person going to a fan site to discuss a product that they like with others who use the same product. I can understand a person trying a product, hating it, and then going to fan sites to express their opinions. I just plain can't understand someone who spends so much time on a site that's targeted at a product that they don't use (and they often swear that they'd die before using the product) and have never used. Then to spend all that energy spreading FUD - even to the point of fabricating reviews.

It seems to me like the sign of an inherently unstable individual - either that or they are being well paid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

You need to demonstrate that to be the case.  I don'r really know what facts you are relying on.


Let's see:

A few weeks ago, Proview said that they were already in discussions with Apple. Today, Proview says that Apple wouldn't talk with them earlier, but is now talking to them.

Surely even you can figure out the inconsistency. Then again, maybe not. Google hasn't paid you to understand that part yet.
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post #25 of 38
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


zzz is even worse than that. Look on the bottom of this page. There's a section called 'recent reviews'. Until today, zzz had a review for both the iPhone 3GS and the iPhone 4 (it may have been the 4S). Of course, he panned both of them.

IF he's reviewing products he doesn't own or at least used extensively then it would be both dishonest and misleading. I don't see what you're referring to tho. Perhaps you didn't point to the right page?

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post #26 of 38
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Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

IF he's reviewing products he doesn't own or at least used extensively then it would be both dishonest and misleading. I don't see what you're referring to tho. Perhaps you didn't point to the right page?

Look at the bottom of this page. There's a section labeled 'recent reviews'.

Until today, there were two reviews there - both by zzz. One for the iPhone 3GS and one for the iPhone 4 or 4S. The reviews have been removed.
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post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

No, not that one.  I'm referring to Apple being bamboozled into paying a company that did not own the Chinese trademark, despite the true owner being listed in the Chinese trademark registry.

 

Seemingly, apple was defrauded.  That is an equitable argument.  Legally, Proview has the upper hand.

 

Equitable? Ok, 55K for 10 countries, 55/10 = 5.5K per country. Since the trademark was generating nothing for proview in China, 5,500$ should be more than "equitable". There you go, problem solved.

 

And "upper hand"? Which "upper hand" is that? The hand that Apple is bitch-slapping Proview with? Apple is still doing a booming business in China, and using the iPad moniker at that. Proview is doing what? They're desperately trying to hold on to con attempt gone horribly wrong for them, and sliding even deeper into debt (lawyers don't work for free - even in China) in the process.

 

Here's a new theory I just came up with:

 

Apple's army of lawyers spotted this con-artist coming from a mile away. The executives at Apple saw this poor attempt to pull a fast one and let it slide on purpose, knowing full well that the net result would be Apple burning this pitiful shell of a sham company to the ground ... then salting the scorched earth where it burned ... all for the cost of the lawyers they already had on retainer plus a few thousand dollars as a token to appease the sensibilities of the Chinese court system (call it the "cost of doing business" in Communist China). And in return, Apple still gets to do their business uninterrupted (aside from what, 40 iPads "seized" by authorities in one province somewhere ... oooh, ouch, Apple must be reeling from that :P), and they get to rain down unholy wrath on the morons that really thought they could steal from the resting dragon and walk away unharmed.

post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Look at the bottom of this page. There's a section labeled 'recent reviews'.
Until today, there were two reviews there - both by zzz. One for the iPhone 3GS and one for the iPhone 4 or 4S. The reviews have been removed.


Gotcha. I saw "recent reviews" but there weren't any. I guess they were there sometime recently then, but gone now.

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post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Look at the bottom of this page. There's a section labeled 'recent reviews'.
Until today, there were two reviews there - both by zzz. One for the iPhone 3GS and one for the iPhone 4 or 4S. The reviews have been removed.


Gotcha. I saw "recent reviews" but there weren't any. I guess they were there sometime recently then, but gone now.

 

You should go ahead and post some.

post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

You should go ahead and post some.

He hasn't done so because he's apparently not as dishonest as you.
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post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


He hasn't done so because he's apparently not as dishonest as you.


I think that might have been a compliment but I can't be certain. lol.gif

So thanks.

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post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I don't see how this is anything to do with "saving face" on either party's part.  "Settling" is also not a loss per se and is pretty much standard procedure in cases like this.  

 

My thought was that, at this point, all we have is Proview's account of Apple's intentions.  They seem eager to promote this idea, and have publicized it more than once.

 

Much has been made of the way business is done in China - "saving face" is a feature of this technique, though certainly not native only to China.

post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 Legally, Proview has the upper hand.

Lol by upper hand I think you mean they have the government on there side because they own a lot of the bank money preview owes in its bankruptcy.  Not because they still own the trademark even though they claim they do.  There nothing but criminals.

post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

Legally, Proview has the upper hand.

Really? Which Chinese law school did you graduate from? And how did you have time for law school when you were so busy fabricating fake iPhone reviews?

Keep in mind that only one court case so far has addressed the merits of the case and that's the Hong Kong court which told Proview to stop claiming ownership of the trademark.
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post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 
Keep in mind that only one court case so far has addressed the merits of the case and that's the Hong Kong court which told Proview to stop claiming ownership of the trademark.

 

 

The Hong Kong court did not consider the merits of the case.  They instead imposed an injunction  to maintain  the status quo pending a decision on the merits.

 

We've been over this already.  

post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post


The Hong Kong court did not consider the merits of the case.  They instead imposed an injunction  to maintain  the status quo pending a decision on the merits.

We've been over this already.  

Yes, we have - which is why it's so frustrating that you continue to spread the same lies.

http://venturebeat.com/2012/02/16/apple-proview/
"Here, the conduct of all the defendants demonstrate that they have combined together with the common intention of injuring Apple and IP Application by acting in breach of the Agreement. Proview Holdings, Proview Electronics and Proview Shenzhen, all clearly under Yang’s control, have refused to take any steps to ensure compliance with the Agreement so that the China Trademarks are properly assigned or transferred to IP Application (Apple’s third party trademark purchaser). Instead, they attempted to exploit the situation as a business opportunity for the Proview Group by seeking an amount of $10,000,000 from Apple.”

How did the court reach that decision if they didn't consider the merits of the case?

Or maybe this one:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/02/16/hong_kong_court_sided_with_apple_in_ipad_trademark_dispute_with_proview.html
"The Wall Street Journal uncovered a "not previously reported" court decision from the High Court of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region last July that upheld Apple's claim to the iPad trademark in mainland China."

Or maybe this:
http://allthingsd.com/20120216/heres-the-chinese-court-ruling-backing-apple-in-ipad-trademark-tiff/
"“We bought Proview’s worldwide rights to the iPad trademark in 10 different countries several years ago. Proview refuses to honor their agreement with Apple, and a Hong Kong court has sided with Apple in this matter.”
That was Apple’s statement to AllThingsD Wednesday"
That reference includes the actual court decision which states:
"The substantive hearing came before me" (which proves that it was a hearing as to the facts)
Note that this was not a final hearing, but it most certainly was a hearing of the merits of the case.
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post #37 of 38

Proview lawyers claim a lot of things and have been since this story broke. Apple has already told Proview lawyers to SHUT UP!  Until the chinese high court rules on there appeal which hasn't happened yet nothing they say should be taken with a grain of salt or less.

post #38 of 38

Lost in translation, I guess, maybe some people think Apple giving them the finger indicates "wanting to settle out of court". Of course, I kid, Proview knows it has no chance. The pantomime on Proview's part is pretty hilarious now.
 

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