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Apple-revised nano-SIM design to address Nokia objections ahead of standards vote - Page 2

post #41 of 49
5/9/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


That's the first that I hear of a stack of SIMs that would be active with the same account.
The extra amount of space IS valuable, I never denied that; the question is how much space and how valuable. There has to be a lower limit when it doesn't matter any more. If not 50 mm^3, then how much is this limit? 5? 0.5? How do you calculate it? For reference, 50 mm^3 is the volume of an average drop of water.
Until someone gives me a reasonable argument as to why a 0.08% decrease in the total size would matter, I am going to maintain that this decrease is negligible and not worth redesigning the SIM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

 

Also, they are inactive cards. I activate them in the extremely rare case one is needed. "Stacks" was hyperbolic, but they basically have never charged me for a SIM card because I refuse to pay for them.

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post #42 of 49
5/9/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

Also, they are inactive cards. I activate them in the extremely rare case one is needed. "Stacks" was hyperbolic, but they basically have never charged me for a SIM card because I refuse to pay for them.

I see, inactive cards. So you can't just pop them in and use them at will? There goes the convenience I mentioned in my original post...

Thanks for the link to Moore's law, I don't see how it adds to the discussion, so I'm not going to read it again, I hope you don't mind. Wikipedia is great but seldom a substitute for actual arguments.
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post #43 of 49
5/9/12 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not true. Apple has said that THEY won't charge any royalties, but since the design is based on the old SIM design, there may still be license fees involved. If Motorola, for example, has a patent which covers the existing SIM design, Apple can't simply make that patent go away by cutting off some plastic.

 

Please don't change what Apple has stated to paint them in a better light. Apple said they won't charge any royalties IF (and only if) the companies with standards essential IP also agree to give royalty free licenses. Outside of this new design (which is basically trimming excess plastic from the old design), Apple owns no IP relevant to SIM cards. Which is the crux of Nokia's argument against the design is that Apple isn't really bringing anything new to the table but wants to get a free ride regardless.

 

Plus, Apple has patented the tray design that their chip would require in older phones. Not sure if that is covered in their offer of royalty free IP. If not, Apple is playing at getting SIM card IP for free AND collecting royalties on companies making trays for older phones. Now who exactly is being greedy?

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post #44 of 49
5/9/12 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post


I see, inactive cards. So you can't just pop them in and use them at will? There goes the convenience I mentioned in my original post...
Thanks for the link to Moore's law, I don't see how it adds to the discussion, so I'm not going to read it again, I hope you don't mind. Wikipedia is great but seldom a substitute for actual arguments.

If you can't extrapolate on how Moore's Law may be a factor outside your short term, myopic view of the situation at hand, then it isn't worth explaining to you. You seem to be here to argue with zero regard for what new or opposing information is present to you.

 

Why would I keep multiple SIMs handy that were activated for use on the same account at once? How is that even a factor? You're a dullard.

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post #45 of 49
5/9/12 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

Government bureaucracy at its finest. That same microprocessor could be embedded on the SoC or elsewhere, saving precious space. Given that we live in a time where voice, print and face recognition are all possible, that phone call is a sign of humanity's addiction to nostalgia.

It will be embedded eventually, there is some work being done on that. I don't think the ETSI has addressed the security and portability concerns while making it convenient. I do know I don't want the CDMA system of authentication, being on the phone for half an hour to switch phones was not my idea of fun.
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post #46 of 49
5/9/12 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

If you can't extrapolate on how Moore's Law may be a factor outside your short term, myopic view of the situation at hand, then it isn't worth explaining to you. You seem to be here to argue with zero regard for what new or opposing information is present to you.
Hey, I thought we were having a nice chat, and there you go being all upset! Well, I see your Moore's law and raise you a Nyquist-Shannon theorem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem
Quote:
Why would I keep multiple SIMs handy that were activated for use on the same account at once? How is that even a factor? You're a dullard.

Easy on the name calling. I don't know why you would keep a stack of SIMs, you said that... My idea was that with two different standards for the SIM size it is more difficult to change phones...
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post #47 of 49
5/9/12 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Please don't change what Apple has stated to paint them in a better light. Apple said they won't charge any royalties IF (and only if) the companies with standards essential IP also agree to give royalty free licenses. Outside of this new design (which is basically trimming excess plastic from the old design), Apple owns no IP relevant to SIM cards. Which is the crux of Nokia's argument against the design is that Apple isn't really bringing anything new to the table but wants to get a free ride regardless.

Plus, Apple has patented the tray design that their chip would require in older phones. Not sure if that is covered in their offer of royalty free IP. If not, Apple is playing at getting SIM card IP for free AND collecting royalties on companies making trays for older phones. Now who exactly is being greedy?

I see, so my original suggestion was correct -- Apple is trying to make a party on Nokia's expense.

I often forget that with some posters here you need to do fact checking, otherwise they twist the facts in order to push their agenda...
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post #48 of 49
5/9/12 at 11:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slang4Art View Post

Government bureaucracy at its finest. That same microprocessor could be embedded on the SoC or elsewhere, saving precious space.

Technically of course it could be implemented on the SoC (like it is in CDMA). Or why not a compromise? Take the actual chip (which is far smaller than any of these new proposals) and give that to the subscriber. Technically entirely feasible. Usable? No.

As to the goverment bureacracy, it is at its finest - in a positive sense. It allows for example:

- decoupling the device from the subscription, thus making price transparency easier to achieve.
- moving your SIM to another device in case your device fails -> service continuity (could even save a life)
- If SIMs were implemented properly (more memory, better address book), you could contain all your contact data there, which would make moving from one device to another a breeze. It used to be like this before we started embedding email addresses, pictures etc. onto the contacts. Actually if the devices used the enhanced address book in the USIMs, it would still be doable today and vendor independence on address books part would be reeality.

Another good government bureucracy example is the countries, where subsidies on phones are illegal. Subsidies bind subscribers to expensive long-term contracts. In these countries you get more competition on BOTH the phones AND the subscriptions resulting in lower prices and better services for the consumer via better price transparency.

Regs, Jarkko
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post #49 of 49
5/10/12 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

Plus, Apple has patented the tray design that their chip would require in older phones. Not sure if that is covered in their offer of royalty free IP. If not, Apple is playing at getting SIM card IP for free AND collecting royalties on companies making trays for older phones. Now who exactly is being greedy?

I didn't understand what was patentable about the tray design. But it's not totally required, but it's handy if you want direct external access. If you design the SIM socket into the battery pocket like most phones seem to do, then a tray isn't necessary.

The RIM and Nokia designs break backward compatibility to allow external accessibility, much like a micro SD card and don't need a tray to make sure the card isn't inserted backwards.
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