Rule 11: All your carefully crafted arguments can be easily ignored.
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
Rule 11: All your carefully crafted arguments can be easily ignored.


While this is true, I believe what was being discussed originally was using the Finder (or Windows Explorer) to copy music to your device. That is not supported. Enabling the use of an iPod as a storage device is nice for carrying files (I do it with my iPod Classic), but I still have to use iTunes to manage music. Not that I mind - perhaps I'm in the minority, but I actually like iTunes. I think its smart playlists are pretty powerful. I never understood how Windows users can call iTunes a bloated mess when they put up with the jumbled mess that is Windows Media Player.
Class Action for lulz.
In that case it's working.

I guess that answers my question:
Tip: To sync music files to iPod, use iTunes. You will not be able to play songs on your iPod that you transferred to your iPod using Finder on a Mac or using My Computer/Computer or an Explorer window on a PC. If you transfer songs to your iPod using those methods, your iPod will see them as data.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee.


Boom. Not guilty.
Want to buy an off-brand MP3 player? Knock yourself out. Plenty of also-rans out there. (I hear Sony sells Walkmans that can play MP3s now.)
Want to play your iTunes tracks on an off-brand MP3 player? Go ahead. iTunes can transcode it all for you.
Sent from my iPhone Simulator
Sent from my iPhone Simulator
I guess, but the entire concept is completely irrational. Every device from camera to printer comes with free software to manage the device's functionality. Some of the included applications are not always necessary but sometimes they are to achieve the full feature set of the device. I really don't see how iTunes is much different. Sure it didn't come with the device and has other features unrelated to the iPod but it is still the free software from the same manufacturer that is recommended for the best user experience of the device.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

The suit isn't about the inability to interact with the iPod -- it's about actions Apple took to block a 3rd-party vendor's attempts to maintain an end-to-end DRM protection system whilst interacting with the iPod. Apple does not offer - and never has - any public APIs which would allow any 3rd party vendors to have that functionality.
Is the suit frivolous? Maybe. Probably. Almost certainly.
But please refute the actual facts of the case, not your own invented substiute for the facts.
Presumably Apple was required to give it to them, assuming your registered your iPod when you bought it.
A colleague of mine is an intellectual property licensing expert (but not a lawyer). She "hates" Apple and Steve Jobs because they "illegally engaged in patent tying" and were never called to account for it (in her opinion). I need a little reading on this mind-numbingly boring topic and think that's at the core of this (dumb) law suit. The gist is that you can't legally use a patent (and the legally sanctioned monopoly power that a patent gives you) to improve your market position in some other market by artificially "tying" one to the other.
I don't know what patent she was referring to or which direction the tying was supposed to have occurred. Did Apple have a patent and monopoly on a certain type of digital music players and use that to get market share on the (remarkably unprofitable) digital music sales? Or was it the other way around? For the law suit to make sense it has to be the former, right? Since the "class" are people who bought iPods not the people who bought songs through iTunes. And if that's the case, it's a really stupid argument because as others have pointed out there were any number of ways to put music on your iPod without buying from iTunes Music Store.
Yeah, they're just outright broken.
I'm on 5.2, but try 5.1.6 that came with 10.7.4 today. See if that fixes any-*snort*… 

Presumably Apple was required to give it to them, assuming your registered your iPod when you bought it.
A colleague of mine is an intellectual property licensing expert (but not a lawyer). She "hates" Apple and Steve Jobs because they "illegally engaged in patent tying" and were never called to account for it (in her opinion). I need a little reading on this mind-numbingly boring topic and think that's at the core of this (dumb) law suit. The gist is that you can't legally use a patent (and the legally sanctioned monopoly power that a patent gives you) to improve your market position in some other market by artificially "tying" one to the other.
I don't know what patent she was referring to or which direction the tying was supposed to have occurred. Did Apple have a patent and monopoly on a certain type of digital music players and use that to get market share on the (remarkably unprofitable) digital music sales? Or was it the other way around? For the law suit to make sense it has to be the former, right? Since the "class" are people who bought iPods not the people who bought songs through iTunes. And if that's the case, it's a really stupid argument because as others have pointed out there were any number of ways to put music on your iPod without buying from iTunes Music Store.
Thanks for the explanation. Personally, only around 10% of my iTunes library was purchased from iTunes Music Store. The large majority was ripped from my CD collection...

They need to throw this case out. People are just being allowed to sue for the sake of suing and costing people money. I'm sure Apple factors in the cost of litigation into their products. It takes away from employee salaries and from the consumer having to defend all these frivolous law suits or law suits without any merit.

Had a quick Google and in 2004 Apple was estimated to have 92% of the US hdd mp3 player market. But even with just 80% it can still be argued that Apple had a dominate position.
Microsoft was convicted of using their dominate position in desktop OSes to gain an unfair advantage in browsers and media players by tying the products together. It was Microsoft's standard MO for years: add functionality into the OS and therefore drive competing products out of the market thereby destroying competition and consumer choice. It was this tactic that left us with IE6 as the biggest browser for years and since there was no competition Microsoft let it to stagnate.
In this case Apple tied iTunes and the iTunes Store to the iPod preventing Real from effectively competing. Who was going to buy music from Real if it doesn't work on ~80% of the mp3 players out there at the time?
But Real was the one who decided to make their files not work by putting DRM on them. If they were standard MP3s or AACs, they'd have worked fine. Real could turn around and blame their content providers, I guess, but ultimately it was still their decision go forward with a business model that wouldn't work.
not totally true. IF the store that sold them put on DRM that restricted playback then you couldn't. But that type of action if taken by say Amazon or Microsoft isn't Apple's fault.
You could totally rip stuff off your CDs and play them on your iPod, that was actually all you could do in the beginning and that function is still in the iTunes software.
As for the whole 'you had to have an iPod' that's not true. you could play them on your Mac computer and then very shortly later on your Windows computer via the iTunes software. And it has been ruled several times that vertical integration is not anti-trust or illegal, particularly when you make it clear before customers buy. Which Apple did in the terms and conditions that these folks probably didn't bother to read just like most folks don't even today
market share isn't the only factor in calling a monopoly illegal. Crossing market lines is another factor. The whole iPod/iTunes issue has been deemed vertical integration in other suits, which Apple will use as precedent to get this toss (and very possibly win on that argument). Which means they didn't cross market lines. Unlike the classic example of Microsoft's games with IE and their OEMs. They tried to argue vertical integration even claiming that IE was vital for Windows to run correctly but the courts didn't buy it. They deemed that an OS and a web browser are two different markets and telling the OEMs they had to install IE and no other web browser or lose their license was crossing market lines and illegal use of monopoly power. A similar example in the Apple world might be if they had not ever released iTunes for Windows so if you want to have an iPod, iPhone or iPad then you have to buy a Mac computer (well at least in the pre iOS 5 years). This is one reason why Apple likely did release that software, to avoid such an anti trust allegation. Because they would have been crossing the line from the media player to the personal computer markets. And with 95% of that market there would be strength to be abusing.
The lawyers get only what is agreed upon. something like a set fee plus $XXX per claim
The law firm handling the lawsuit does handle nor dole out the money. This is done by a separate (usually an accounting) firm. Any unclaimed funds after the settlement period is over gets sent to the state as unclaimed money. See -> http://www.unclaimed.org/ (yes, unclaimed money is real).
After some time frame, this almost always gets turned over to charities. The lawyers and the state don't get to keep it.

market share isn't the only factor in calling a monopoly illegal. Crossing market lines is another factor. The whole iPod/iTunes issue has been deemed vertical integration in other suits, which Apple will use as precedent to get this toss (and very possibly win on that argument). Which means they didn't cross market lines. Unlike the classic example of Microsoft's games with IE and their OEMs.
This suit also involves the iTunes Store so that could be considered crossing market lines.

Again, please understand this concept, At the time, Apple was the one restricting this content, wanting it to not be an open source for files. This is something that I'm sure they had no intentions of doing maliciously, they just want to be able to ensure their devices work well. In recent years that has been opened up in terms of music but, again, this is Apple restricting the files going to and from it's players not the Microsoft or anyone else. DRM is another matter entirely. You can buy Music from Zune Marketplace and put in on your iPod if you wanted to as long as you download it in MP3 format. That option is not available in iTunes circa 2006, hence the lawsuit.
Uh, no. When iTunes was first introduced there was no iTunes Music Store. iTunes, originally derived from SoundJam MP in 2001, began by giving users the ability to (then) easily digitalize music CDs and load that music (without DRM) to an iPod. The iTunes Store, introduced in 2003, was made possible when Apple added DRM to the music being sold as contractually required by the music industry for access to their music libraries. iTunes always had the ability to import and play non-DRM'd MP3s from any other source. The Harmony technology developed by RealNetworks allowed users to add their music to iTunes-- now pay attention, important point here--that music was DRM'd music using RealNetworks' proprietary Helix DRM system, not open MP3 files. iTunes was always a companion product to the iPod and was never intended to be used with other MP3 players nor to use DRM'd music from other online music stores. Some people had a hard time understanding that.
Check it out. Wikipedia. Good site.
"You can't fall off the floor" From 128k Mac to 8GB MBP
"You can't fall off the floor" From 128k Mac to 8GB MBP

Had a quick Google and in 2004 Apple was estimated to have 92% of the US hdd mp3 player market. But even with just 80% it can still be argued that Apple had a dominate position.
Microsoft was convicted of using their dominate position in desktop OSes to gain an unfair advantage in browsers and media players by tying the products together. It was Microsoft's standard MO for years: add functionality into the OS and therefore drive competing products out of the market thereby destroying competition and consumer choice. It was this tactic that left us with IE6 as the biggest browser for years and since there was no competition Microsoft let it to stagnate.
In this case Apple tied iTunes and the iTunes Store to the iPod preventing Real from effectively competing. Who was going to buy music from Real if it doesn't work on ~80% of the mp3 players out there at the time.
In reality Apple only had about 56% market share of all music players. Apple only had a dominate share of in the name brand player market. But even at 80% of name brand players, it's a far cry from Microsoft dominance. Microsoft Windows was on over 95% on ALL computers. Including the ones with no name on it, store brand name and the ones consumers built themselves.
And the other factor is choice. With Microsoft, consumers really had only one other choice. And that was Apple OSX. But with the iPod, there were plenty of other choices (at the time). There were a least a dozen quality music players by name brands like Rio, Creative, Sony, Microsoft, etc.. Not to mention all the no brand name music players and cell phones. So even if Apple iPods had a dominate share of the music player market, they were far from being the only choice for consumers.
It wasn't the "tying" that got Microsoft in trouble with the DOJ. It was Microsoft demanding that PC venders pre install IE and not include any other competitors browsers with the PC's they sold or risk losing their Microsoft OS license. This was Microsoft abusing their monopoly in the OS market. When the DOJ demanded that Microsoft unbundle IE from the OS, Microsoft tried to claim that IE was integrated into the OS. Which was proven to be hogwash. Microsoft finally complied by letting the PC purchaser install the browser of his choice, with IE still being one of several choices included with the PC.
The other thing that got Microsoft in trouble with the DOJ was that they were sabotaging competitors browsers by rewriting some of the Java codes in Windows and not letting the competitors browsers programers know about it in a timely matter. Thus competitors browser were viewed as "buggy" and often crashed. Which cause many PC users to stick with IE.
iTunes is tied to the iPod. But not the iTunes Store. You don't need the iTunes Store to get music into your iPod. Never did. iTunes on the other hand is the software that managed and organized your music on an iPod.
You got to remember that back when all of this was taking place, online music purchases accounted for less than 5% of all the music purchased. 95% of music was still purchased on CD's. It wasn't until they removed the DRM that online music purchases took off. It highly unlikely that Real would have survived even if they had access to the iPod. iTunes only survived because Apple mad a ton of money selling iPods. Apple was lucky if they broke even selling music. And as soon as the DRM was removed from online music, Amazon had their own software that put Amazon music purchases into iTunes. With no complaint from Apple. Apple complaint at the time had to do with Real "hacking" Fairplay to get their music on to an iPod. Fairplay is the DRM that Apple wrote to comply with the Music industry requirement that online music must have some form of protection against piracy. Apple was also required to maintain it in case of hacking, so Apple did not license out Fairplay. Since it was much easier to maintain it if it's only on one player, their iPod.
Lets not forget that third party players and plugins can allow other software to interact with iPods as well. There is a plugin for WIndows Media Player, Songbird can interact with iPods, as can Rhythm Box on Ubuntu. If you download music through the Windows Media or Ubuntu One music store, you can then use iTunes or one of the other 3rd party utilities to transfer said music to your iPod/Pad/Phone without a hitch.
Using an iPod with Ubuntu is just as easy as iTunes. Just click the pretty picture of it in the right hand tool bar.
http://www.simplehelp.net/2007/07/03/how-to-manage-your-ipod-using-rhythmbox-in-ubuntu/
... at night.
... at night.