or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › AT&T thinks all tablets will eventually include cellular radios standard
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AT&T thinks all tablets will eventually include cellular radios standard

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
As the price of cellular radios comes down, AT&T believes that eventually all tablets will include them, giving users the choice of data on the go without paying extra for hardware.

Currently, most iPads and other tablets bought by consumers are Wi-Fi-only. Apple charges a $130 premium for iPad models with cellular connectivity, to offset the cost of 3G and 4G LTE radios, while most other tablet makers charge a $50 premium for cellular-equipped models.

But Glenn Lurie, president of emerging devices at AT&T, told Macworld he believes that as the cost of cellular radios drops, many tablet makers will sell only models with cellular data connectivity built in. That would give users the choice of whether or not to subscribe to a data plan, without needing to pay a greater up-front cost for hardware.

"All devices should have all capabilities built in from the beginning," Lurie said.

A big step toward universal connectivity could come this year, as major U.S. carriers are gearing up to offer new data plans that can be shared across multiple devices. For example, a user could pay for one AT&T data plan, and have their allotment available via both an iPhone and an iPad.

LTE


AT&T mobile business CEO Ralph de la Vega told CNet this week that his company intends to offer a "family data plan" in the near future, allowing consumers to buy an allotment of data that can be used by multiple devices. Though de la Vega said he's "comfortable" with the plan AT&T will offer to its customers, he declined to give any specifics as to how it will work or what the pricing model will be.

Another barrier that remains is the price of radios: Cellular HSPA+ radios compatible with AT&T's 3G network now cost about $30 on average. But 4G LTE radios, like the ones found in Apple's new iPad, are still as high as $70.
post #2 of 30

Thinks=Wants.

post #3 of 30

AT&T also thinks it can get away with its current business model.

 

Hee hee hee… 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #4 of 30
1) I can see that eventually happening after we get HW that can handle all the available bands for LTE and if the price drops significantly. Licensing fees are still a major barrier outside of HW costs.

2) Apple is surely making a profit on their premium model iPads but it's not excessive. Just look t what a cellular USB stick cost you off contract. I remember paying $350 for mine. I think other tablet makers are selling at or slow cost in an attempt to compete with the iPad.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

AT&T also thinks it can get away with its current business model.

 

Hee hee hee… 

 

The handwriting is on the wall.  With the launch of the iPhone, total control was removed from the carriers over the handset.  Everything else will follow.  A universal radio standard would be nice too.

post #6 of 30

I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #7 of 30

One thing you can be sure of is the carriers aren't going to do anything that lowers their overall revenue.  If you think that these new plans are going to lower your overall cost of wireless service then you've got another thing coming.  They don't do that.

post #8 of 30
Apple won't do that until they've squeezed the carriers further.
post #9 of 30

Like a few have said, until there is one chip to rule them all, this won't happen.

 

Unless he is suggesting that he and Dan Mead (VZW), Dan Hesse (Sprint), Robert Dotson (T-Moble), not to mention all carriers world wide, are already in talks to come to agreement on one standard....

 

lol.gif

 

Sorry, I couldn't leave this with a straight face...

post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post

The handwriting is on the wall.  With the launch of the iPhone, total control was removed from the carriers over the handset.  Everything else will follow.  A universal radio standard would be nice too.

1) It would be nice if it was included and Apple offered a modicum of dedicated service for Find My iPad much in the same cellular capable Kindles don't require a cellular data package. Unfortunately, with Apple being the only viable tablet that doesn't seem like good business.

2) LTE's air interface does usher in more of a universal standard than we've ever seen before. The problem now lie with the number of operating bands being used as there is simply no way around that but to keep adding more to the HW.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I can see that eventually happening after we get HW that can handle all the available bands for LTE and if the price drops significantly. Licensing fees are still a major barrier outside of HW costs.
2) Apple is surely making a profit on their premium model iPads but it's not excessive. Just look t what a cellular USB stick cost you off contract. I remember paying $350 for mine. I think other tablet makers are selling at or slow cost in an attempt to compete with the iPad.

 

1) Since it hasn't happened with laptops yet, I'd be surprised if it happened for all iPads much less all tablets within the next 2 or 3 years in the US.  Still too many legacy network technologies across so many spectrum ranges.  And lots of investment to make back in that LTE development.

 

2) All my iPad purchases including gifts have had the radios just to have the on/off option.  It's worth the extra coin to have the option at the ready and I agree that it is reasonably priced upgrade.

 

Shared data, like shared minutes is a slick concept.  I rarely use my iPhone for data while using my iPad for data.  Even cooler, shared pool of data across multiple vendor gear.  Many families are split between android, iOS and Windows mobile stuff.  I wonder if the account owner or delegate will be able to configure/enforce quotas per device.  Shared minutes and rollover are a pretty good pull.  Now if they'll do roll-over of some portion of the unused data in their capped plans....  

post #12 of 30

AT&T *hopes* all tablets will eventually include cellular radios standard.  They could be right, but I'm guessing that the end result will be *most* tablets will have cellular radios, but there will always be a low cost WiFi only model somewhere for the price conscious consumers.

post #13 of 30

The only reason AT&T is saying all tablets (or by extension, everything) will contain cellular devices is because that's their only source of income (outside the 2 year purchase commitment). iMessage is a threat to AT&T's SMS income as is WiFi. (For those of you using AT&T's internet services I feel sorry for you.) I would imagine that AT&T makes most of it's money on data and SMS plans so of course they want to see equipment that will allow them to continue to rip off everyone (me included) with expensive monthly usage charges.

post #14 of 30

FWIW - this isn't TOO unreasonable. 

 

Apple LOVES to over market and overcharge for REALLY common hardware features. Like it's a massive upgrade. Like the memory for an 8GB,16GB, 32GB iPhone really adds the $100+to the costs.

 

Given Apple makes $200-$400 in gross profit off each mobile device... somehow $5-$20 for a 4G/LTE chip isn't too much of a stretch.

post #15 of 30

As will all mobile devices... e-ven-tu-al-ly.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

As will all mobile devices... e-ven-tu-al-ly.

 

Yep, that seems to be the key word.  When execs speak, they do strategic talk and have to be vague on dates and features.

post #17 of 30

I mostly agree with AT&T here.  Eventually, the vast majority of all mobile devices (especially tablets) will have cell radios as standard equipment.  But the days of needing a phone plan are going to come to an end.  All we're going to need is a data plan.  AT&T should be shaking in their boots over that one.

 

I don't need a phone plan.  I don't need minutes.  I don't need a text plan.  I need data.  If somebody offered a data plan only for iPhone, I'd dump AT&T this coming summer/fall when I upgrade from my iPhone 4 to whatever the next iPhone will be.  Yeah, I'd have to pay full price, but it'd be worth it.

post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2oh1 View Post

I mostly agree with AT&T here.  Eventually, the vast majority of all mobile devices (especially tablets) will have cell radios as standard equipment.  But the days of needing a phone plan are going to come to an end.  All we're going to need is a data plan.  AT&T should be shaking in their boots over that one.

 

I don't need a phone plan.  I don't need minutes.  I don't need a text plan.  I need data.  If somebody offered a data plan only for iPhone, I'd dump AT&T this coming summer/fall when I upgrade from my iPhone 4 to whatever the next iPhone will be.  Yeah, I'd have to pay full price, but it'd be worth it.

 

I'm sure more than AT&T is thinking about it.  It will be interesting to see how the FCC reacts to this shift when it's not a phone anymore; when there's not a voice network that's discernible.  Although even LTE has a discrete voice component.

post #19 of 30

Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad.  I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game.  I'd much rather wait until I can do it over my already expensive Wi-Fi network at home or some other place where I don't pay.  Besides, that black rubber bar on the 4G iPad is not attractive.

post #20 of 30

Area of need for this to happen 

 

1.  Unified standard for LTE and good coverage of 3G for fallback 

2.  Low cost low power chip and antenna system 

3.  Shared Data Plans becoming the norm 

4. Carriers moving to cloud enablement for some of their features. 

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #21 of 30
AND, since Apple will control all the data (voice,data, video,other telemetry) to the tablet and AT&T will still bef sitting on the curb with a flash card saying 'look at me' I got NOTHING- GIVE ME MONEY' ... And we say NOT ! They will perish...AMF !,,
post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98 View Post

Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad.  I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game.  I'd much rather wait until I can do it over my already expensive Wi-Fi network at home or some other place where I don't pay.  Besides, that black rubber bar on the 4G iPad is not attractive.

Perhaps nobody told you, but you're supposed to look at the FRONT of the iPad.

 

The electronics business worries about components that add 5 cents to costs. Getting them to include a $30-70 part is laughable.

 

What people hate is that the carriers treat each bucket of data separately. Your tablet can't share your phone's data cap unless you pay extra to enable tethering. Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it. Recently I've seen shared data plans, but they're always tied to a phone contract and always cost more than non-shared data.

 

The reason WiFi-only devices sell so well is that people have realized they don't need cellular data. We already have free WiFi in a lot of public places and paid WiFi in many more. If a big player like Apple or Google decided to blanket large urban areas with WiFi the cell phone companies would be left with nothing but low density suburbs and rural areas from which they'd be hard pressed to make much of a profit.

 

I think the AT&T statement is a combination of wishing, dreaming and trying to make people think 3G/4G in a tablet is more important than it really is. It's about saving an endangered business model.

post #23 of 30

Yea, he forgot to mention Macbooks too...

 

People want devices capable of always being data-accessable.  The challenge is getting MUCH more reasonable pricing from cellular companies for the same...


Edited by libertyforall - 5/9/12 at 11:52am
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it.

 

Actually, if your phone is unlocked and is not on contract, you can use a tablet data plan on it. Just pop in the SIM card with a tablet data plan on it, and change the APN to match the tablet data plan's APN. Now, you may claim that AT&T's contract prohibit such usage, but this is a grey area because it isn't clear such a clause is enforceable in a court of law. I'm allowed, per my contract terms, to place my tablet data plan's SIM in other iPads or other tablets if I so choose, so why couldn't I insert it into my iPhone? "Because it is a phone", say you? Actually, no it is labeled iPhone, but without any plan on it, it is simply a smaller tablet as long as it being used as such. I don't think AT&T would win that argument in court. "It can't be a tablet because the screen is only 3.5"? Ya I'd like to see them make that argument in court.

 

But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.

 

What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.

post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.

Apple doesn't have its own wifi networks.

 

Apple also isn't stupid and doesn't want to dilute its highly profitable business with a low margin/negative margin business.  Want to see a stock go from $600 to $300?  This is a great way to make that happen.

post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.

 

What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.

 

I should point out that ever since the TDMA device era, both AT&T and Rogers (Canada) predecessors have always had separate voice and data provisioning. In the 2G system, data was rarely provisioned owing to lack of devices (mainly Blackberry devices), and text-messaging, voicemail, etc were what's known as "bolt-on" features. As they migrated to 3G billing systems, the new billing systems enforce specific combinations of plans, features and promotions and can only be overridden by higher management, unlike the 2G systems which many customers days were ruined once unmatching changes were saved. These were enforced by a maintenance program, so you'd have the illegal combination for about a week, and then the maintenance program would delete it. That's where most billing errors come from.

 

So when you switch from no-commitment to post-paid or vice-versa, the representative typically is forced by the billing system to remove features, and you may not have that explained to you, as some features are trivial. In Canada for example, a big deal is still made over including long distance, where as most US voice plans include nationwide long distance as standard. 

 

You have to make sure the representative reads back the entire setup of your device, before saving it, as certain promotions are usually only available for about 6 months, and then if they're removed, they do not come back, period. If you've had something like "unlimited data", I guarantee you it's gone the second you call in to change anything on that device. To add a voice plan to it, may force the billing system to delete it, if you move from "separately provisioned" data and voice plans to a combination plan. "Data devices" are normally provisioned as "data plans" with optional voice bolt-ons, where as phones are provisioned the other way around.

post #27 of 30

Considering the high costs of data, the carriers would absolutely love for all tablets and probably laptops to include cellular radios; they would be rolling in dough.

post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. 

 

Why should it be Apple. Why should they provide wifi to cities. It's not their responsibility to 'wire' anything at their own cost anymore than it is for them to solve the education issue, the unemployment issue, to change the labor laws in foreign countries etc. 

 

If the cities want wifi on the streets that is their business and their task to undertake. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98 View Post

Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad.  I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game.  

 

You seem to be forgetting that you aren't on contract with an iPad. You can start and stop as much as you like, with no activation or termination fees. The only rule is that if you don't use the whole chunk of data it doesn't roll over nor can you get a refund. but otherwise, have at it. 

 

so if you want to stick to wifi you can. 

 

all ATT is saying is that they believe, and I think they are right, that one day the component prices will be so low that our 16GB (or whatever the baseline is) iPad will sell for the same $499 and have the cell radio in it, rather than now where we have to pay over $100 extra for that piece of hardware. And I happen to agree. there might be one wifi only that is essentially an education/kids model but the rest will have both wifi and cell data radios in them without the markup

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.

In Switzerland most cities now have free wif, in fact in Zurich you can be connected almost everywhere, the entire day without ever using you data plan.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPad
  • AT&T thinks all tablets will eventually include cellular radios standard
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › AT&T thinks all tablets will eventually include cellular radios standard