or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't'

post #1 of 165
Thread Starter 
When asked about similarities between the design of HP's new Ultrabook and Apple's MacBook Air, an HP executive dismissed concerns that Apple could sue.

Stacy Wolff, vice president of Industrial Design at Hewlett-Packard, did admit that there are similarities between his company's new Envy Spectre XT laptop and Apple's MacBook Air. But according to Engadget, he said that's more due to the way technology has developed than Apple driving design in the industry.

"Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't," Wolff said. "In no way did HP try to mimic Apple. In life there are a lot of similarities."

Speaking at the Global Influencer Summit in Shanghai, China, Wolff highlighted what he feels are some key differences between the Spectre XT and the MacBook Air. He noted that HP's new Ultrabook is rubber-coated at the bottom, and it is made of magnesium, compared to Apple's use of CNC aluminum.

He also highlighted a brush pattern on the Spectre XT that isn't found on the MacBook Air. And HP's Spectre line also includes dedicated Beats Audio processing, for higher quality sound.

"If you want to look at a macro level, there are a lot of similarities to everything in the market that's an Ultrabook today," he said. "It is not because those guys (Apple) did it first. It's just that's where the form factor is leading it."

Spectre XT


In April, it was said that Intel hopes to see shipments of as many as 30 million Ultrabooks this year. The company designed the Ultrabook specification for Windows PC makers after Apple found great success with its new MacBook Air.

Ultrabooks feature many of the same defining features as the MacBook Air: solid-state storage, instant-on capabilities, and super-thin design thanks to the lack of an optical drive.

Apple is expected to take design cues from its MacBook Air and bring them to the MacBook Pro lineup in the coming months. Apple's updated MacBook Pros will be powered by Intel's latest-generation Ivy Bridge processors, which began shipping in April.
post #2 of 165

Blah, blah, blah.

 

Explain this, CEO-man.

post #3 of 165
True, but Apple came to it first.
post #4 of 165

I disagree with HP.  I think that form factor is lead by Apple.  Apple is the only company these days that is an early adopter of technology.  It may be the next logical step, but everyone else would still be putting out big plastic boxes if not for Apple's pushing the limits and forcing their component suppliers to produce the parts needed to make the next step.  The only other company I've seen advance anything might be Amazon for advancing the eInk form factor.  It is obvious, but they were the company to mass produce it to take it to the next step.  It is easier to follow then to lead.

post #5 of 165
So is Beats Audio the new Bose? Can anyone actually hear a difference in ABX tests?
post #6 of 165

HP just admitted they follow and don't lead...Clearly to follow you need someone to follow and maybe he's follow samsung and samsung is copying apple..so thats ok then...lets hope copying does not lead to rewards.

post #7 of 165

Meh, so what. It looks somewhat similar to a MBP, but the similarity ends at the operating system. The chances of anybody getting confused and buying an HP when they really wanted a Mac are next to nil I'd say.
 

post #8 of 165

When you don't or can't innovate, then copy, is works for SAMSUNG.  However, as usual, companies try to copy the facade not the deeper content that Apple addresses.  They may fool some customers, but in the end this doesn't succeed.  It either fails by "skating to where the puck is vs where it will be" and so huge effort is invested in trying to guess Apple's next move [ergo Apple's secrecy] or fails to deliver the full "job to be done" that Apple provides in its eco system.  Recall companies have been trying to copy Apple's MacBook Airs since they first came out and failed and/or overpriced.   

 

My bet like phones, tablets, and other Macs they will be indistinguishable and compete on price to race to the bottom with little to no margins and corner cutting to save money.  A real to strategy for success.  

 

Ironically, INTEL's concerns are not Ultras but trying the delay the Post-PC world until their processes can really compete in mobile space.  Again not a formula or a long term strategic and competitive advantage for PC makers.

 

I wonder how long before Horace Diedu starts showing the decline and disappearance of PC makers as he has so dramatically illustrated on cell phones for essentially the same reasons?

post #9 of 165

I think he thinks we're all daft. That keyboard... that's a mac styled keyboard. Just because they made the rest of the computer ugly, doesn't mean they didn't steal design cues from Apple. Be real, HP. Don't be hating.  

Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
post #10 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post

When you don't or can't innovate, then copy, is works for SAMSUNG.  However, as usual, companies try to copy the facade not the deeper content that Apple addresses.  They may fool some customers, but in the end this doesn't succeed.  It either fails by "skating to where the puck is vs where it will be" and so huge effort is invested in trying to guess Apple's next move [ergo Apple's secrecy] or fails to deliver the full "job to be done" that Apple provides in its eco system.  Recall companies have been trying to copy Apple's MacBook Airs since they first came out and failed and/or overpriced.   

 

My bet like phones, tablets, and other Macs they will be indistinguishable and compete on price to race to the bottom with little to no margins and corner cutting to save money.  A real to strategy for success.  

 

Ironically, INTEL's concerns are not Ultras but trying the delay the Post-PC world until their processes can really compete in mobile space.  Again not a formula or a long term strategic and competitive advantage for PC makers.

 

I wonder how long before Horace Diedu starts showing the decline and disappearance of PC makers as he has so dramatically illustrated on cell phones for essentially the same reasons?

 

  Before samsung, it worked for panasonic. They made a mint copying and improving on sony and then undercutting them on price. The world keeps on spinnin.

Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
post #11 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
"In no way did HP try to mimic Apple. In life there are a lot of similarities."

To quote Yoda, "Do or do not. There is no try." And that's why we can build evolutionary trees of MP3 players, smartphones, tablets and laptops that are all rooted at Apple.

post #12 of 165

"Apple may like to think they own XXX, but they don't,"

 

Better hang on to that phrase, Mr. VP of Industrial "Design". When you copy Apple's next new look, you will need to repeat it.

post #13 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post

Meh, so what. It looks somewhat similar to a MBP, but the similarity ends at the operating system. The chances of anybody getting confused and buying an HP when they really wanted a Mac are next to nil I'd say.

 

The point isn't that someone will mistakenly buy this when they wanted an MBA or MBP. It's that another company who is apeing industrial design from Apple is using the tired argument of how this design was 'obvious' and 'just the way things were going'. Yet, no one was doing it until after Apple.
post #14 of 165

"It is not because those guys (Apple) did it first. It's just that's where the form factor is leading it."

 

Has anyone else ever heard of a form factor leading an industry over a company?  Doesn't a company need to design the form factor?  He talks as if form factors are entities unto themselves.  What fantasy world does he live in?  Still, in spite of them copying the MBA as closely as possible to hopefully get people confused, it still won't run OSX, but a MBA will run Windows.

 

Side Note:

I really dislike the new AppleInsider forums.  I click the link to reply and as expected I am taken to the sign in page.  After I sign in I expect to be taken to the post I was reading with an active "reply" field, but instead I'm taken to a forum list of all posts.  This has happened time and time again.  Also, quoting is not as good as it was and I can no longer double click a word and correct the spelling.  Ugh!

post #15 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Blah, blah, blah.

 

Explain this, CEO-man.

It's just the 'natural evolution', 'natural development', or whatever other bullshit so phrased. Somehow, whatever Apple is is only the 'natural evolution' of things, and only after Apple does them. 

post #16 of 165

Dear HP

There are some things  you and your company do very well. I have had printers and scanners over the years and even 1 Computer before I learned that living without the Windows OS was better for one's personal health (mentally speaking) and for the heath of one's wallet.  However judging from the foregoing article , I must compliment you and your Company on your grasp of BS and the skills  required in its delivery. Well done !!

 

Respectfully Yours

 

A. Macuser

post #17 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post

When you don't or can't innovate, then copy, is works for SAMSUNG.  However, as usual, companies try to copy the facade not the deeper content that Apple addresses.  They may fool some customers, but in the end this doesn't succeed.  It either fails by "skating to where the puck is vs where it will be" and so huge effort is invested in trying to guess Apple's next move [ergo Apple's secrecy] or fails to deliver the full "job to be done" that Apple provides in its eco system.  Recall companies have been trying to copy Apple's MacBook Airs since they first came out and failed and/or overpriced.   

 

My bet like phones, tablets, and other Macs they will be indistinguishable and compete on price to race to the bottom with little to no margins and corner cutting to save money.  A real to strategy for success.  

 

Ironically, INTEL's concerns are not Ultras but trying the delay the Post-PC world until their processes can really compete in mobile space.  Again not a formula or a long term strategic and competitive advantage for PC makers.

 

I wonder how long before Horace Diedu starts showing the decline and disappearance of PC makers as he has so dramatically illustrated on cell phones for essentially the same reasons?

great post!  I was sitting on a plane next to a guy responsible for promoting the Ultrabooks design.  I asked him, why are you trying so hard to promote Windows ultra books instead of MacBooks Airs?  Why must Macbook Air fail for Ultrabooks to succeed? Doesnt the Macbook Air have Intel chips in it anyways? Why are you guys doing this? He keep trying to avoid answering this question. Finally it he admitted to me, "we think Apple will move to ARM Macbook Airs'.

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #18 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98 View Post

He talks as if form factors are entities unto themselves.  What fantasy world does he live in?

Maybe the ultrabook design is a Platonic form?
post #19 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Blah, blah, blah.

 

Explain this, CEO-man.

 

Yep, it's pretty blatant.  It's ridiculous that he can, with a straight face, pretend that being first is no big deal and sluff it off as just natural progression.  I'd bet he wouldn't be so generous if it was his work that's being practically mimicked.  HP takes no risk here since Apple has already proven the design in the marketplace.

post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

It's just the 'natural evolution', 'natural development', or whatever other bullshit so phrased. Somehow, whatever Apple is is only the 'natural evolution' of things, and only after Apple does them. 

So true.  I don't really mind HP copying Apple's MBA.  What really bugs me is that they try to make it like their design ideas aren't influenced at all by Apple when it's So obvious that they are.  Just stop lying to us HP.

post #21 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul View Post
"Apple may like to think they own XXX, but they don't,"

 

Better hang on to that phrase, Mr. VP of Industrial "Design". When you copy Apple's next new look, you will need to repeat it.

 

1310488108597575.jpg

post #22 of 165

It might not be a direct copy, but what exactly does it bring to the table?

 

Nothing. 

 

 

"If you want to look at a macro level, there are a lot of similarities to everything in the market that's an Ultrabook today," he said. "It is not because those guys (Apple) did it first. It's just that's where the form factor is leading it." 

 

 

Here's your "macro level", Poindexter:  It's where APPLE is leading the market. 

 

Macbook Air

iPhone

iPad

 

ALL of these things have an Apple logo, not an HP logo. 

post #23 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Blah, blah, blah.

Explain this, CEO-man.

That's actually not a great example to prove your point. While the location of the trackpad and the keyboard appearance are similar, there's no way someone would confuse that HP with a MBP.

Some of the Ultrabooks are near exact copies of the MBA - and that would be a better example of how the industry is copying Apple (but I realize that this article is about HP so the other examples might not fit as well).
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #24 of 165

HP thinks its 'Silver' will bring them 'Gold" but it's still a PC, which is synonymous with the 'Bronze' age!

/

/

/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply
post #25 of 165
Yes, but those smilarities along with the brushed-metal look are hardly 'natural progressions'. It's an apeing of Apple and nothing more. ThIs idiot should just man up and admit they copied things.
post #26 of 165

Its not just the SILVER Mr. Fancy- the black screen bezel, the indented keyboard is exactly the same, the black keys, the trackpad with rounded corners...

post #27 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

great post!  I was sitting on a plane next to a guy responsible for promoting the Ultrabooks design.  I asked him, why are you trying so hard to promote Windows ultra books instead of MacBooks Airs?  Why must Macbook Air fail for Ultrabooks to succeed? Doesnt the Macbook Air have Intel chips in it anyways? Why are you guys doing this? He keep trying to avoid answering this question. Finally it he admitted to me, "we think Apple will move to ARM Macbook Airs'.

Even assuming this story is true, Apple is not likely to switch the MBA to ARM unless Intel forces them to. Apple was perfectly happy with the MBA and had a huge share. There's no reason they would have changed CPUs as long as the status quo was maintained. By increasing the competition in the MBA space, Intel is putting pressure on Apple to change. Someone in their strategy department needs to be fired.

Aside from that, I can't see it. Swich to AMD? Maybe. But ARM is still far behind the performance of the Core series chips and Apple isn't likely to sacrifice THAT much performance. By the time ARM could provide that much power, the Atom will have caught up - and would be an easier transition since iOS developers wouldn't need to completely rewrite their apps.

That said, I could see a MacBook Micro (essentially an iPad with fold-out keyboard. This would be a true netbook replacement and would offer all the iOS apps with a trackpad and keyboard, as well. It might be great for people who largely use their iPads for email or web browsing or Pages or Reports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post

When you don't or can't innovate, then copy, is works for SAMSUNG.  However, as usual, companies try to copy the facade not the deeper content that Apple addresses.  They may fool some customers, but in the end this doesn't succeed.  It either fails by "skating to where the puck is vs where it will be" and so huge effort is invested in trying to guess Apple's next move [ergo Apple's secrecy] or fails to deliver the full "job to be done" that Apple provides in its eco system.  Recall companies have been trying to copy Apple's MacBook Airs since they first came out and failed and/or overpriced.   

My bet like phones, tablets, and other Macs they will be indistinguishable and compete on price to race to the bottom with little to no margins and corner cutting to save money.  A real to strategy for success.  

Ironically, INTEL's concerns are not Ultras but trying the delay the Post-PC world until their processes can really compete in mobile space.  Again not a formula or a long term strategic and competitive advantage for PC makers.

I wonder how long before Horace Diedu starts showing the decline and disappearance of PC makers as he has so dramatically illustrated on cell phones for essentially the same reasons?

The bolded makes more sense than the explanation offered by snova.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #28 of 165

Every time i see the Dell commercial and the tagline "Inspired by Intel" I actually laugh.  HP is bad but Dell has almost an identical ripoff of the Air.

post #29 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

[...] "It is not because those guys (Apple) did it first. It's just that's where the form factor is leading it." [...]

Well at least he admits that Apple did it first. Give him a cookie.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

Reply
post #30 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Applelunatic View Post

So is Beats Audio the new Bose? Can anyone actually hear a difference in ABX tests?

 

I've never heard a DSP that actually makes the sound better.  To my ears, they all just add distortion.

post #31 of 165

Yeah, Beats Audio sounds awful. Really awful.

 

I'm not saying that Apple speakers are any better, but the Beats Audio crap sounds like slightly louder laptop speakers.

post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Blah, blah, blah.

Explain this, CEO-man.

Apple DOES drive design in the tech industry! Deal with it or copy it but don't try to deny it, HP CEO.
post #33 of 165

How true. Apple certain does not claim to own Silver. 

 

But it took all the genius of HP to make silver fugly. (I will the reader figure that one out).

 

HP used to be a great company but of late, well the less said about them the better. 

 

They have no game. 

post #34 of 165

MacBook Airs are "instant on"?  That's news to me.  It's a regular ordeal getting mine to wake up from sleep.  There are several seconds of lag time before the machine shows any response at all.  It's far from "instantly" clear whether or not there is any battery power available.  I never experience anything like this with my iPad and iPhone.

post #35 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTime Jenson View Post

Every time i see the Dell commercial and the tagline "Inspired by Intel" I actually laugh.  HP is bad but Dell has almost an identical ripoff of the Air.

Aluminum doesn't have to be silver. Nor does a silver laptop need to necessarily look like an Apple. My thirteen year old can come up with an aluminum laptop design that looks nothing like the Apple, proclaims its own sense of style and distinguishes it from everything else without looking like anything else (or being ugly).

 

I think HP and Samsung have the ability to make truly unique and beautiful devices, but they are afraid to do anything unique, though I don't know why.

 

Anyway, that's my take on it. I could be completely wrong. I would like to see some more innovation in design and for everybody to stop copying everybody else.

post #36 of 165

Haha, is that why they ripping off Macbook's design?

Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
post #37 of 165

Here is a direct copy of the MacBook Air.  Acer Aspire S3-951-6646 13.3-Inch Ultrabook.  If this had an Apple shaped icon most people really wouldn't know the difference.  I wonder if anyone were to perform a public survey with this computer with Mac OS X 10.7 Lion installed, telling them that Mac OS X 10.7 Lion is the next version of Microsoft Windows, what would the results be?  How many people would prefer Mac OS X 10.7 Lion over Microsoft Windows 8?

 

 

acer_aspire_3951-acer_3951-4.jpg


Edited by MacBook Pro - 5/9/12 at 10:36am
post #38 of 165

Instant on*

 

*When you have SSD
 

Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
Apple had me at scrolling
Reply
post #39 of 165

This quote is the essence of what frustrates me about pure left brain thinkers (who make up the vast majority of people in executive positions these days): because they don't comprehend the creative process, and don't pay attention to details, they assign no value to it.

 

I guess maintaining this position is self serving because it allows you to pull a ridiculous salary/benefits off the backs of the people who are truly innovating and creating value.  Unfortunately, as a long term corporate modus operandi, it usually leads to the downfall of a company.

 
Reply
 
Reply
post #40 of 165

HP doesn’t deserve credit for this. It’s not by accident that they did this design second (third? seventh?) and Apple did it first. The first MacBook Air came out FOUR years ago and looked nothing like anything else. We can say there are only a few ways to make a hinge, or whatever... but where was a hinge like that done on a laptop before? I think the iBook had that drop-behind screen first, and now all Apple laptops have it, and many non-Apple laptops have jumped on it too.

 

If these designs are so “obvious” then why is Apple always doing them first? What a coincidence. I guess they’re obvious after you’ve seen Apple do it :)

 

And “credit” must be given to Intel, of course... don’t they claim to have “inspired” the “ultrabook” design? Let’s not kid ourselves about what “inspired” Intel there....

 

At best, Intel mimicked Apple and HP followed along. Change a few details? Apple was still first by years.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't'