or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't' - Page 4

post #121 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

I think you are confusing me with someone else..  please go find and quote me.   thanks for calling me a dishonest liar.   wow.  check your facts before you go all postal.  Oh btw.. nice to meet you too.. geez what a jerk. 

I think the comment was meant for me, sorry for that.

J.
post #122 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daramouthe View Post

True, but Apple came to it first.

Was that before or after Sony? They had a few with this look back around 2005. You just didn't look very far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy View Post

It's just the 'natural evolution', 'natural development', or whatever other bullshit so phrased. Somehow, whatever Apple is is only the 'natural evolution' of things, and only after Apple does them. 

Sony has used designs like this. The problem with this kind of journalism is that it's agenda driven. They don't look for any other reference. They don't comment on the two in use even though that is what should really define a computing device.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

 

Intel isn't forcing Apple to go to ARM, but they've already given Apple a swift kick.  I don't know what Apple's CPU pricing is, but they're probably not getting the same volume discounts that the larger PC makers are getting.  When the first MacBook Air was introduced, it had a custom-made Intel CPU.  Yes, it eventually found its way into competing laptops. And Apple paid boutique prices for early access to that chip and a few others after it.  

 

But not any more.  For whatever reason, Apple no longer gets exclusive early access to the latest Intel CPUs.  My guess is that Intel ended the honeymoon because Apple went with ARM-based SoCs for iPhone / iPad / Apple TV instead of the power-hungry Intel Atom chipset.  Intel finally rolled out an Atom x86-based SoC this year.  Five years after the iPhone was announced.

 

 

I really thought you were smarter than this. The early access thing was a myth, and we've seen plenty of explanations on it in the past. Apple has purchasing contracts like the other oems, most likely giving them priority over distributors. Regarding ARM, you couldn't run OSX on it today without some massive work, at which point the cost and energy advantages may or may not still be there.

post #123 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

You should take a look at older Sony laptops. Apple isn't typically the first to try these things. They set trends. When Sony did it, no one cared. Look at something like http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/ultraportables/2004/09/02/sony-vaio-x505-39165287/

If I posted the image out of context next to a macbook air, everyone  most people on here would say Sony copied.

Erm, no. That Vaio and the MBA are not alike at all.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #124 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post


Erm, no. That Vaio and the MBA are not alike at all.

 

If they did it today, someone would call it a macbook air clone. You may see that they're not the same thing. You have to understand my issue is that no one really makes an objective comparison when suggesting something is a copy.

post #125 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

If they did it today, someone would call it a macbook air clone. You may see that they're not the same thing. You have to understand my issue is that no one really makes an objective comparison when suggesting something is a copy.

Can you please state a model? The only Sony model mentioned in this thread so far, X505, released in 2005, doesn't look like anything Apple ever made.
post #126 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


I think the comment was meant for me, sorry for that.
J.

jnjnjn,

 

no need to be sorry. You did nothing wrong.  Its not your fault some people don't take the time to figure out who said what and then go off blasting their mouth and making accusations at people for things they didn't even say. 

 

In a way, this is absurdly laughable.

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #127 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Regarding ARM, you couldn't run OSX on it today without some massive work, at which point the cost and energy advantages may or may not still be there.

OK, I'll bite. Could you elaborate what specific massive work you are referring to?

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #128 of 165
HP sort of kind of copies Apple. Of course not as elegant or refined. Like their attempt at an aluminum foot:

41LZpt8d-nL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Or a MacBook Pro:

hp-envy-15-opened-540x334.jpg?1264177458

How they can claim what they do isn't copying but a natural progression is laughable.
post #129 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

OK, I'll bite. Could you elaborate what specific massive work you are referring to?

The "bite" response suggests I was trolling.  Aren't you aware that the ARM soc used in an ipad has something close to the number crunching power of a G4? It would take a lot of engineering time attempting to scale something up to a design that would be appropriate for an OSX based machine, and many of the advantages seen at the ultra low power level may not hold up if the design has to be significantly altered.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Can you please state a model? The only Sony model mentioned in this thread so far, X505, released in 2005, doesn't look like anything Apple ever made.

That's one that comes to mind. Since you don't like that comparison, I'll use an earlier one from HP.

 

11885.jpg

I couldn't find one with something on the display, but the keyboard style and latch are similar to this new one. The black bezel is there. The trackpad is obviously a different design, but this is quite old. This time I'm using an HP Pavillion dv2000 from 2006. You weren't off on the Sony model. I think there's a Vaio that's a bit closer, but the one you mentioned is the same one I referenced. This is just a different example. This time I'm showing that HP does have a logical preceding device, and all of the copy noise never came up at that time. I don't think people on here pay any attention to the other oems, so it's easy to see anything with similarity as a clone.

post #130 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

The "bite" response suggests I was trolling.  Aren't you aware that the ARM soc used in an ipad has something close to the number crunching power of a G4? It would take a lot of engineering time attempting to scale something up to a design that would be appropriate for an OSX based machine, and many of the advantages seen at the ultra low power level may not hold up if the design has to be significantly altered.

 

Honestly, you are reading into my "bite" comment way too much. I was simply looking to understand the "massive work" specifics which you were referring to.   I going to to choose not to follow up to the rational behind of your response.  Thanks. 

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
Reply
post #131 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daramouthe View Post

True, but Apple came to it first.

 

And in like a month Apple will release a revamp of the Air and folks will be all HP who? and it won't matter. 

post #132 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meniac View Post

 

That's probably the most stupid thing being said in this battle between Apple and their followers. Can't believe it.

but it's true .

 

they didn't TRY. they just did it. 

post #133 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Blatent rip off.......  Sue Apple, Sue.  HP is just making THEIR laptop look identical to the MacBookAir.

I won't be shocked if Apple doesn't sue. Tim made decide that it's not worth the negative PR or the legal costs on something so scant. Better to focus on killing them with sales.  

 

Now if they copied the whole 'brick' method for craving out the bodies, which Apple has a patent on, that might be worthy of a lawsuit. but it looks like they didn't 

post #134 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post


Quote:
That's one that comes to mind. Since you don't like that comparison, I'll use an earlier one from HP.

LL
I couldn't find one with something on the display, but the keyboard style and latch are similar to this new one. The black bezel is there. The trackpad is obviously a different design, but this is quite old. This time I'm using an HP Pavillion dv2000 from 2006. You weren't off on the Sony model. I think there's a Vaio that's a bit closer, but the one you mentioned is the same one I referenced. This is just a different example. This time I'm showing that HP does have a logical preceding device, and all of the copy noise never came up at that time. I don't think people on here pay any attention to the other oems, so it's easy to see anything with similarity as a clone.

I'm sorry, but do you think I'm retarded? My Dell Studio 17 looks FAR more like that HP than any Apple. It looks like Dell stole almost all the sculpting cues, Apple didn't do anything like that. If you are telling me you think that the newer Apples look like they've ripped that HP, then I don't know where to go from here. There are quite a lot of differences that make it not nearly on the order of this new HP Spectre Envy 15 product. And let's not forget the Compaqs that came after the Powerbooks that look like cheap Powerbooks.

X505 have few apparent similarities that would suggest to me like a rip-off, other than that they're also thin and small. Not much of the design language translated to make it a design copy.

You want to tell me that I haven't been paying attention to PC laptops, fine, but it's not actually true. I still look at them from time to time, though it's been a while since I've been happy with one. I can also distinguish from similar-ish to a blatant ape of multiple pieces of design language at the same time.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/9/12 at 9:26pm
post #135 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


No, you should look at the new GPUs from PowerVR, they will be equally powerful.
J.

 

No they aren't. The Rogue supports OpenGL 4.x but the performance of it won't remotely touch those of AMD/Nvidia, but then again their power requirements put them in a completely different market segment.

post #136 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

 

Not necessarily a fair comparison since you are compared a previous generation dual-core CPU to a latest generation quad-core CPU aside from the different usage.

 

I actually think it is notable that based on your data the dual-core Cortex-A9 1.0 GHz solution is within 5 generations of surpassing the Intel Core i7 2600k.  I grant you that is for a static target rather than a real world dynamic target.  I think it would be interesting to see what ARM could do with a more performance-based architecture.

 

ARM Designs will never surpass Intel/AMD Desktop/Laptop designs because their power requirement preclude that from ever happening.

post #137 of 165
I've read a lot of posts about this or that CPU and GPU not comparing to other CPUs and GPUs but I haven't seen any comments or qualifiers that are comparing performance for a specific power draw.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

Goodbyeee jragosta :: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/160864/jragosta-joseph-michael-ragosta

Reply
post #138 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Even that would be axiomatically wrong. We always see ARM paired with a GPU on the SoC but the GPU in the iPad is by Img Tech, a company I think both Apple and Intel have ownership of.

 

They have investment stakes in ARM but I believe they are non-voting shares and solely for the purpose of having access to ARM Designs.

post #139 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

 

If they did it today, someone would call it a macbook air clone. You may see that they're not the same thing. You have to understand my issue is that no one really makes an objective comparison when suggesting something is a copy.


Both the computers you have posted, be it via link or picture, don't look anything like an MBA and I can't see that anyone would claim that they were copies of Apple's designs.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
Reply
post #140 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

No they aren't. The Rogue supports OpenGL 4.x but the performance of it won't remotely touch those of AMD/Nvidia, but then again their power requirements put them in a completely different market segment.

Yes, in this conversation you pretty much have to limit to comparing PowerVR and Intel integrated GPUs since that is the performance band the ATOM ultrabooks go to.  ARM and Power G4 aren't anywhere near ready to supplant Intel in the laptop space with anything shipping.  They may be just close enough by a  ~it will do really basic word processing/email/surfing acceptably~ with A15 quad core and future PowerVR cores, but that won't be worth it for Apple to upset the dev community with forced architectural rebuilds and re-optimization writing.  ARM will need to get into a case of either being 1.5x faster for 1/2 the power budget as ATOM or being roughly equivalent processing-wise but run 10x longer.  Either way Apple will need to see the kind of performance win that makes devs go -- yes I understand that and it is good for me.

.
Reply
.
Reply
post #141 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

 

ARM Designs will never surpass Intel/AMD Desktop/Laptop designs because their power requirement preclude that from ever happening.

Intel has run up against quantum issues.  As they scale smaller the clock speeds don't go up much anymore due to hitting an exponential increase in quantum tunneling.  So they have to dial back voltage faster than the littler transistors are switching.  Notice each successive process shrink is yielding a smaller absolute max performance increase compared to the linear downscaling of the transistor sizes. They are advertising something like +20% for less power with the latest series, increases used to nearly double (+100%) for constant power dissipation.

 

Intel's 10 years of truly superior process management is about out of room to improve economically anymore.  The bad part for them is they have decades of power-hog thinking that has degraded their ability to make ATOM a true low power part.  ARM has always been ultra low power design philosophy and circumstances in fabrication are seeing them get a benefit just because Intel got slowed down dramatically.  

 

Will ARM handle the opportunity better than AMD in the long term?  We'll see.  But if I was Intel and Nvidia I would be real nervous because the mobile power profile vs plugged in power profile world is on twitchy 3D gimbals, not just a standard teeter-totter where the 800 pound gorilla is safe.  One bad move by the gorillas or a really right move by the up-and-comers may make for some significant market chaos.

.
Reply
.
Reply
post #142 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've read a lot of posts about this or that CPU and GPU not comparing to other CPUs and GPUs but I haven't seen any comments or qualifiers that are comparing performance for a specific power draw.

You worded it better than me. It's like people think the same design used in the ipad is appropriate for the air. I'm not speculating on the future there, just saying it doesn't look practical today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


I'm sorry, but do you think I'm retarded? My Dell Studio 17 looks FAR more like that HP than any Apple. It looks like Dell stole almost all the sculpting cues, Apple didn't do anything like that. If you are telling me you think that the newer Apples look like they've ripped that HP, then I don't know where to go from here. There are quite a lot of differences that make it not nearly on the order of this new HP Spectre Envy 15   product. And let's not forget the Compaqs that came after the Powerbooks that look like cheap Powerbooks.
X505 have few apparent similarities that would suggest to me like a rip-off, other than that they're also thin and small. Not much of the design language translated to make it a design copy.
You want to tell me that I haven't been paying attention to PC laptops, fine, but it's not actually true. I still look at them from time to time, though it's been a while since I've been happy with one. I can also distinguish from similar-ish to a blatant ape of multiple pieces of design language at the same time.

You seem to have misunderstood me somewhere. I never suggested Apple copied aesthetic design elements anywhere (nor would it affect my purchasing decisions).

 

That is significantly closer than I expected the side by side to appear. When I tried the engadget link on the main article, it just kept throwing me back at the appleinsider article itself. Your link worked though. Yes I remember HP's takeover of Compaq. I thought of it a bit after the last post. Anyway I posted it because it uses most of the same design elements of the Spectre Envy (latch, bezel, looks like keyboard, port allocation, etc.) and it looked like much of the design work came from there. Looking at the side by side, they seem to have borrowed quite a lot of the detailing from Apple.

 

Not that this matters to the argument, but I never personally cared about the appearance of a computer. My experiences with HP stuff haven't been that great. Their printers used to be decent. My experiences with Apple products have been all over the place. My ipod batteries never lasted long. I've had many many display problems, down to smaller quirks. It goes back as far as the G4s. Prior to a G4 I owned a Dell. 

post #143 of 165

No, HP copied ASUS.  That's different.

post #144 of 165
AI is reaching new levels of troll.
 
"Ultrabooks feature many of the same defining features as the MacBook Air: solid-state storage, instant-on capabilities, and super-thin design thanks to the lack of an optical drive"
 
Now, those items may 'define' the MBA, but the MBA was not the first laptop to include any of them - it therefore is NOT a design leader.
Secondly, if you plot a graph showing laptop size over time, it's only logical to conclude that the formfactor would shrink. To further exemplify that, we're seeing non-apple laptops that are now smaller, thinner, have better specs, and are cheaper than their apple counterparts.
 
no wonder you're all on the defensive. suck it.
post #145 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by shao View Post

AI is reaching new levels of troll.
 
"Ultrabooks feature many of the same defining features as the MacBook Air: solid-state storage, instant-on capabilities, and super-thin design thanks to the lack of an optical drive"
 
Now, those items may 'define' the MBA, but the MBA was not the first laptop to include any of them - it therefore is NOT a design leader.
Secondly, if you plot a graph showing laptop size over time, it's only logical to conclude that the formfactor would shrink. To further exemplify that, we're seeing non-apple laptops that are now smaller, thinner, have better specs, and are cheaper than their apple counterparts.
 
no wonder you're all on the defensive. suck it.

OK. Please show us a non-Apple laptop that's smaller, thinner, better specs, and cheaper than the Apple counterpart. I can't think of any that come close. There are some that are thinner, some that are smaller, some that have better specs, and even a few that are cheaper, but I can't think of a single one that is all of those so please enlighten me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've read a lot of posts about this or that CPU and GPU not comparing to other CPUs and GPUs but I haven't seen any comments or qualifiers that are comparing performance for a specific power draw.

That was never in question. Intel can't match ARM's performance / watt. Atom fans say that they're catching up, but they're not there - and the Core series processors aren't close.

But that is far more important for a device like the iPad than for the MBA. The MBA has plenty of room for a battery to get hours of life and the users expect a certain level of performance. Remember when the first MBA came out? It was panned because it was so underpowered. Yet even that version was far more powerful than an ARM processor is today.

They're different markets. People buying an iPad know that it's a limited device and low performance (relatively speaking) is OK. People buying an MBA are buying a 'real computer' and expect it to behave that way. Furthermore, it's an existing product. Replacing the Core processor with an ARM would mean that the 2013 MBA (choose your year) would be 1/10 as powerful as the 2012 MBA. I just don't see Apple taking that huge of a drop in performance - no matter what the energy savings. Can you imagine the ridicule if Apple released a product with 1/10 the performance of the previous one?

As I've said, I think there is a market for someone who only needs iPad level performance but in an MBA-type layout. Call it an iPad with fold-out keyboard. That could be marketed as an 'iPad Pro' or whatever, but would NOT replace the MBA.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #146 of 165

"Beats Audio processing, for higher quality sound"

Can I kill him? PLEASE?

Beats audio is just a brand. Beats headphones are re-branded Monster Cable headphones and the sound systems in these laptops will just be your bog standard Altec Lansing, Intel HD or C-Media setup. Infact, considering its an Ultrabook following the Intel spec, it WILL be Intel HD audio with beats branded software on-top that does nothing more than stereo widening and EQ Tweaks.

 

Sorry to go off track with this, but anyone who thinks they have a better sound system because it has a beats audio logo needs a good kicking. The latency, digital optical hybrid nature, quality and feature set on my Macs would blow these "beats audio" systems out of the water. Especially the latency. Good sweet lord the latency.

 

"If you want to look at a macro level, there are a lot of similarities to everything in the market that's an Ultrabook today," he said. "It is not because those guys (Apple) did it first. It's just that's where the form factor is leading it."

 

Lets think for a moment here;

Why is everything similar in an UltraBook today? Because you're all following a precise spec from Intel.

Who designed a machine with the spec long before Intel even thought of calling it a "spec"? Apple.

How many years before the Ultrabook did apple have this kind of machine? Several.

Did anyone else have this form factor before the Intel Spec? No.

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #147 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

"Beats Audio processing, for higher quality sound"

Can I kill him? PLEASE?

Beats audio is just a brand. Beats headphones are re-branded Monster Cable headphones and the sound systems in these laptops will just be your bog standard Altec Lansing, Intel HD or C-Media setup.

You're mostly right about the headphones, but you left out the abysmal quality. Search for how many Beats headphone users had the headband break - and there are no replacement headbands available from Monster. Apparently, they were too busy finding ways to make the headphones loud with heavy bass to worry about the physical integrity.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #148 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
OK. Please show us a non-Apple laptop that's smaller, thinner, better specs, and cheaper than the Apple counterpart. I can't think of any that come close. There are some that are thinner, some that are smaller, some that have better specs, and even a few that are cheaper, but I can't think of a single one that is all of those so please enlighten me.

I can't seem to find one at all. Acer is the best example with their Ultrabooks. The monitors are just bad. Can't describe it any other way. They're just bad.

Quote
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
That was never in question. Intel can't match ARM's performance / watt. Atom fans say that they're catching up, but they're not there - and the Core series processors aren't close.

Guess I shouldn't wave an AMD C or E series in-front of an Atom fan. The realisation that Atoms are the worst CPUs on the market from any manufacturer might make their head explode (not counting embedded chip manufactures such as VIA).

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #149 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


You're mostly right about the headphones, but you left out the abysmal quality. Search for how many Beats headphone users had the headband break - and there are no replacement headbands available from Monster. Apparently, they were too busy finding ways to make the headphones loud with heavy bass to worry about the physical integrity.

I do like my beats headphones; they do sound good, but that's to be expected of Monster. But yes, they do feel a bit rushed in the build quality department. I really wish I didn't buy them now because a set of Sanheiser (sp?), BOSE or Sony headphones for the same price would've blown them out of the water; especially Sanheiser.

 

Could be worse, though. They could've ended up being re-branded Skull Candies (mother of god, no)

... at night.

Reply

... at night.

Reply
post #150 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How they can claim what they do isn't copying but a natural progression is laughable.

It's a standard defense:

Microsoft: We didn't copy the Mac OS
Samsung: We didn't copy the iPhone and the iPad and the accessories
Google: We didn't copy iOS
Amazon and Google: We didn't copy the App Store
HP: We didn't copy Apple's desktop and laptop designs

It's obviously just a coincidence that everyone happens to be moving in the same direction and Apple just happens to move quicker than everyone else.
post #151 of 165

HP is the most incompetent PC manufacturer out there.  Remember when they were about to go the IBM route, and stop selling PCs?  And no, Apple doesn't own 'silver', but apparently HP doesn't own any originality.  

 

Honestly, the only PC manufacturer out there I see doing their own thing in a somewhat original way is Lenovo (ironic since they're Chinese), ever since they acquired IBM's PC business they've kept the ThinkPad's original look, functionality, and they're coming out with some cool ideas all around (that are different from what Apple's doing).  

post #152 of 165

Beats are some of the crappiest headphones i have ever heard in my life.  They are not designed for audio, they are designed as bling for idiots and rappers who want to help put lots of money into Dr. Dre's pocket.

If you want real phones, try the Audio Technica ATH-M50.  Its about $180 at most, and has become one of the go-to phones for actual producers and engineers who want to hear what the audio actually sounds like.

 

post #153 of 165

Audio Technica ATH M-50.  Try them, side by side with your beats and you will hear a difference so startling it will make you feel ashamed for calling the beats "good".  

 

-a producer/engineer who doesn't whore himself out to Jimmy Iovine for money.

post #154 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

No they aren't. The Rogue supports OpenGL 4.x but the performance of it won't remotely touch those of AMD/Nvidia, but then again their power requirements put them in a completely different market segment.

As much power as Playstation3 is good enough for me. And that just the start.

J.
post #155 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

Yes, in this conversation you pretty much have to limit to comparing PowerVR and Intel integrated GPUs since that is the performance band the ATOM ultrabooks go to.  ARM and Power G4 aren't anywhere near ready to supplant Intel in the laptop space with anything shipping.  They may be just close enough by a  ~it will do really basic word processing/email/surfing acceptably~ with A15 quad core and future PowerVR cores, but that won't be worth it for Apple to upset the dev community with forced architectural rebuilds and re-optimization writing.  ARM will need to get into a case of either being 1.5x faster for 1/2 the power budget as ATOM or being roughly equivalent processing-wise but run 10x longer.  Either way Apple will need to see the kind of performance win that makes devs go -- yes I understand that and it is good for me.

It's very clear what ARMs aim is with 64bit CPUs: complete dominance from the lowest level embedded device to super computing.
A perfect match for Apple, I would say.
Your also forgetting Apples strategic advantage with ARM.

J.
post #156 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

It's very clear what ARMs aim is with 64bit CPUs: complete dominance from the lowest level embedded device to super computing.
A perfect match for Apple, I would say.
Your also forgetting Apples strategic advantage with ARM.
J.

That's nice, but how does it make up for the fact that ARM is far, far slower (both CPU and GPU) and the CPUs Apple is currently using in its laptops?

Can you see Apple introducing an MBA that's 1/10 the speed of the previous version? I don't think so.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #157 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


It's very clear what ARMs aim is with 64bit CPUs: complete dominance from the lowest level embedded device to super computing.
A perfect match for Apple, I would say.
Your also forgetting Apples strategic advantage with ARM.
J.

 

I don't see any forgetting going on.  Apples advantage with ARM is irrelevant as an independent thing when it comes to a transition or not decision.  Performance must in some way significantly outstrip the shipping at the time MBA hardware before an ARM CPU becomes a viable replacement in that market.  That could be outstrip in pure performance, or be like-performance at FAR lower power budgets.  Either way Apple won't just chose to take absolute performance appreciably backwards in any niche, even for an MBA.  Changing to a fat binary all over again is a traumatic event that won't be done until it is obviously a win to push devs top do it.

 

The only way that Apple advantage plays is that Apple will have a better understanding than anyone else exactly what the calculus of that tradeoff is.

 

ARM ain't there yet, there definitely is potential for them to be but there is still a lot of hard work to be done yet to catch a slowing Intel.

.
Reply
.
Reply
post #158 of 165

LOL!!!

 

Hilarious! Good one!

post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

I disagree with HP.  I think that form factor is lead by Apple.  Apple is the only company these days that is an early adopter of technology.  It may be the next logical step, but everyone else would still be putting out big plastic boxes if not for Apple's pushing the limits and forcing their component suppliers to produce the parts needed to make the next step.  The only other company I've seen advance anything might be Amazon for advancing the eInk form factor.  It is obvious, but they were the company to mass produce it to take it to the next step.  It is easier to follow then to lead.

 

I hate to say it but Sony was doing thin and light way before anyone, granted they never used metal but carbon fiber and magnesium.

When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
Reply
post #160 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I hate to say it but Sony was doing thin and light way before anyone, granted they never used metal but carbon fiber and magnesium.
So if everyone is just copying Sony then how come we never heard about 'Ultrabooks' until after MBA became successful? Yeah Sony had wedge shape laptops years ago but you can't seriously claim the MBA or any of these 'Ultrabooks' would be mistaken for a Sony Vaio. They wouldn't.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › HP exec: 'Apple may like to think they own silver, but they don't'