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Apple's latest Lion update continues preparations for Retina display Macs

post #1 of 71
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Apple continues to make behind-the-scenes improvements to OS X that will allow future Macs with high-resolution Retina displays to show higher quality images, AppleInsider has learned.

Hidden within the OS X 10.7.4 update issued on Wednesday is a Retina-display-caliber icon for Apple's built-in TextEdit application. In OS X 10.7.3, the highest-quality version of the application's icon was 512-by-512 pixels, but after updating to 10.7.4, its resolution has been doubled.

With the quality of the TextEdit icon increased greatly to 1,024-by-1,024 pixels, the file size of the icon also grew from just 209 kilobytes in OS X 10.7.3 to 1.7 megabytes in 10.7.4.

Other applications also saw their icon file sizes grow, such as the Address Book, from 279 kilobytes to 484 kilobytes, and Dashboard, from 130 kilobytes to 226 kilobytes. However, those applications do not feature Retina display 1,024-by-1,024-pixel icons.

The doubling of pixels in application icons suggest that Apple is planning to introduce new Macs with ultra-high-resolution screens, much like the Retina displays currently found on the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch lineup. Apple's new iPad, released in March, packs 3.1 million pixels onto its 9.7-inch display, giving it a higher resolution than a high-definition 1080p television.



Apple has been making behind-the-scenes improvements to OS X to prepare for anticipated Retina display Macs for some time. Some application icons, like the App Store and LaunchPad, have included 1,024-by-1,024-pixel icons since OS X 10.7 Lion was in beta.

In February, it was discovered that Apple's OS X 10.7.3 update for Lion added more high-DPI user interface elements. Various cursors were upgraded to higher-resolution versions, like the pointing-finger cursor for browsers, the "grabby hand," and the camera cursor for taking screenshots.



Apple added HiDPI modes to OS X Lion last year, but those were only accessible by installing Xcode. HiDPI is modeled after the user interface resolution doubling that Apple has done with Retina displays on the iPhone and iPad.

Double-resolution icons can also be found in various applications in the developer preview of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion, Apple's next-generation Mac operating system set to arrive this summer.

Icons 3


One report from last year claimed that Apple is planning to launch a new MacBook Pro with a 2,880-by-1,800-pixel Retina display this year. That would be exactly twice the resolution of the 1,440-by-900-pixel display currently found on the 15-inch MacBook Pro.

Apple's next-generation Macs are expected to be powered by Intel's latest Ivy Bridge processors. Intel announced last September that Ivy Bridge chips would include support for screens with a 4K resolution, providing up to 4,096-by-4,096 pixels per monitor.
post #2 of 71

I wonder where the disproportionate file-size increase comes from? Are they using different/less compression in addition to increased resolution?

 

Continued HiDPI work on Lion would seem to indicate the Mountain Lion isn't shipping next month as one recent report suggested. If Apple were to release new Retina Macs soon and Mountain Lion were coming next month, you'd think they'd just launch them on 10.8. Further HiDPI work in Lion suggests Mountain Lion is still a ways off and Retina Macs will have to ship with Lion.

post #3 of 71

getting a bit tired waiting for news on the new Ivy Bridge mac books. actually quite tempted by the Samsung 9 series +/- ivy bridge

post #4 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post

getting a bit tired waiting for news on the new Ivy Bridge mac books. actually quite tempted by the Samsung 9 series +/- ivy bridge

 

That makes sense so go ahead...

post #5 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data View Post
Continued HiDPI work on Lion would seem to indicate the Mountain Lion isn't shipping next month as one recent report suggested.

 

I don't know anyone that would've thought that except extreme optimists. We'll see a near-final dev preview at WWDC, but then they need time to get that up and running. I don't figure any sooner than LATE July.

 

Quote:
If Apple were to release new Retina Macs soon…

 

But that really can't happen, can it? Panels like that don't even exist! It'll be years before an appropriate 17" display exists, much less 27".

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post
getting a bit tired waiting for news on the new Ivy Bridge mac books. actually quite tempted by the Samsung 9 series +/- ivy bridge

 

Go ahead: enjoy the past!

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #6 of 71

Mmmmhhh..........Anticipation is great fun. Can we have a Retina 27" iMac and/or Cinema Display please? [/END Salivate]

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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post #7 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post

 

tumblr_m3sgd0tFeP1qghsqpo1_500.jpg

 

Gosh dang, where can I get that visor? It's huge, impractical, and it's the only visor I've ever seen with that design. I love it.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #8 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But that really can't happen, can it? Panels like that don't even exist! It'll be years before an appropriate 17" display exists, much less 27".

My prediction: Apple will start with the 15" MacBook Pro.

post #9 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post

 

 

 

lol i do love a good Apple #Fanboy

 

tumblr_m3sgd0tFeP1qghsqpo1_500.jpg

Gosh, how I do love a hypocrite!

post #10 of 71
That's not a "design" per se. It's just a home-made visor with one of those stickers Apple has always enclosed with its products affixed to it. Being as this is 1983ish it's the pre-Garamond Narrow font on it.
post #11 of 71

Can someone tell me why I need "retina" resolution in a display I'm viewing from 30" away?  At this distance I certainly can't resolve individual pixels at a .25mm dot pitch, and I wouldn't be that happy burning the additional GPU cycles to push 4x pixels around.

post #12 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
My prediction: Apple will start with the 15" MacBook Pro.

 

I don't figure they'll do it until they can do an entire family simultaneously. And if I'm right about the next laptop update, that means they'll have to wait for appropriate 11", 13", 15", and 17" panels.

 

I don't think they SHOULD do it unless they can do it across an entire line of products at once, but that's me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unother View Post
That's not a "design" per se. It's just a home-made visor with one of those stickers Apple has always enclosed with its products affixed to it. Being as this is 1983ish it's the pre-Garamond Narrow font on it.
 

Those are WAY bigger than product stickers. These are made visors.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #13 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Gosh, how I do love a hypocrite!

Ya know — it is possible to like something without being a fanboi...
post #14 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Those are WAY bigger than product stickers. These are made visors.

*rolleyes*

Yes, and Apple //es were way bigger then iPhones, Mr.
post #15 of 71

Am I the only one wondering why there's a need for a 1,024 x 1,024 pixel icon? With a 2,880-by-1,800-pixel Retina display you'd get two of them on your screen.

post #16 of 71

This makes me horny. Bring it on Apple, take my damn money!

2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #17 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post

getting a bit tired waiting for news on the new Ivy Bridge mac books. actually quite tempted by the Samsung 9 series +/- ivy bridge

This CPU is more important to you than the OS?

2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #18 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by unother View Post


Ya know — it is possible to like something without being a fanboi...

So, you are telling me that kkqd1337 came to an Apple fan site to discussion his impending purchase of a competitor's product then responded to someone's comment about the purchase by posting an image he had to conjure from the depths of the Internet isn't a hypocrite for referring to someone else as a "fanboy?"

post #19 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karsk View Post

Am I the only one wondering why there's a need for a 1,024 x 1,024 pixel icon? With a 2,880-by-1,800-pixel Retina display you'd get two of them on your screen.

 



The 27" iMac has a resolution of 2560 x 1440, a retina 27" iMac would be 5120 x 2880. With some things like coverflow you will need bigger than 512x512 (or 256x256 on non retina macs), that's why right now the standard maximum resolution for icons on OSX is 512x512

post #20 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by unother View Post
*rolleyes*
Yes, and Apple //es were way bigger then iPhones, Mr.

 

Having what to do with anything? I still HAVE some rainbow Apple stickers, and they're far smaller than the logos on those visors, meaning those visors aren't homemade.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karsk View Post
Am I the only one wondering why there's a need for a 1,024 x 1,024 pixel icon? With a 2,880-by-1,800-pixel Retina display you'd get two of them on your screen.

 

Mountain Lion will be navigated exclusively via a CoverFlow that takes up the entire screen. You cannot turn this off. You must flick your files.™

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #21 of 71

I love the idea of Retina Display Macs but..... there is always a 'but'.... Every time we get more speed and storage there are 'improvements' to the system which means that the potential performance hike virtually disappear. It is inevitable and I wouldn't want it otherwise but I remember a friend who had a PC laptop on which he ran DOS, way after Windows appeared. He was a writer and didn't require all the candy. I thought he was nuts but I remember being impressed with the speed of his computer. Starting up and closing in the blink of an eye was impressive. That's pretty much all... but I'd love a system which could respond to my every command in a couple of milliseconds. I have spent a lot of time watching icons bounce and beach balls spin over the years. I can't even remember what I was looking at while MacOS was 'thinking' in the old days - pre beach ball.

post #22 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But that really can't happen, can it? Panels like that don't even exist! It'll be years before an appropriate 17" display exists, much less 27".

Well there are rumors that Apple will drop the 17" MacBook Pro.
post #23 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Well there are rumors that Apple will drop the 17" MacBook Pro.

 

Which is crap. They better darn well not.

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #24 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I love the idea of Retina Display Macs but..... there is always a 'but'.... Every time we get more speed and storage there are 'improvements' to the system which means that the potential performance hike virtually disappear. It is inevitable and I wouldn't want it otherwise but I remember a friend who had a PC laptop on which he ran DOS, way after Windows appeared. He was a writer and didn't require all the candy. I thought he was nuts but I remember being impressed with the speed of his computer. Starting up and closing in the blink of an eye was impressive. That's pretty much all... but I'd love a system which could respond to my every command in a couple of milliseconds. I have spent a lot of time watching icons bounce and beach balls spin over the years. I can't even remember what I was looking at while MacOS was 'thinking' in the old days - pre beach ball.

You are referring to Wirth's Law made popular by Niklaus Wirth, "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."  Wirth attributed the saying to Martin Reiser, who, in the preface to his book on the Oberon System, wrote: The hope is that the progress in hardware will cure all software ills. However, a critical observer may observe that software manages to outgrow hardware in size and sluggishness.

 

- Wikipedia

 

In economics this is referring to as Jevon's paradox.

 

BTW, Do you know "Aunt Minnie?"

post #25 of 71

Do we have any chance of seing a Macbook Air refresh before the end of june?  I am going to disney world for 2 weeks and would like to bring a MBA with us.

post #26 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


Well there are rumors that Apple will drop the 17" MacBook Pro.

 

I hope not, I would love to replace my current iMac with a 17" Macbook later on, especially if they come up something thinner and lighter.

post #27 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Which is crap. They better darn well not.

I believe 17" is the least popular of Apple's laptops. It is a niche product so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it. Alternatively they just might not update the design: The 13" and 15" MacBook Pros lose the optical drives and get all new and much thinner cases but have retina displays to differentiate them from the MacBook Airs, whilst 17" MacBook Pro is a carrier over of last year's model, maybe with a faster CPU.

 

Ask yourself this: If 17" retina displays are not yet available, does it really make sense for Apple to delay adding retina displays to their most popular models? How many sales would they really lose by not having a 17" retina display?

post #28 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

I believe 17" is the least popular of Apple's laptops. It is a niche product so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it.

The Mac is the least popular of Apple's products. It is a niche product, so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it. Steve Jobs said as much ca. 1996 (to paraphrase "If I was in charge of Apple again, I'd milk the Mac for all it's worth and move on to the next big thing.")

post #29 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post
The Mac is the least popular of Apple's products. It is a niche product, so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it. Steve Jobs said as much ca. 1996 (to paraphrase "If I was in charge of Apple again, I'd milk the Mac for all it's worth and move on to the next big thing.")

 

In the same speech he said the clones were a good idea. He also wasn't in charge of Apple yet in any capacity. You can't use that as example of his modern perspective.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #30 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337 View Post

getting a bit tired waiting for news on the new Ivy Bridge mac books. actually quite tempted by the Samsung 9 series +/- ivy bridge

 

Yes, that makes complete sense. I'm sure you're 'tired of waiting', since you jump to call someone an Apple fanboy in your next post. And I wonder what kind of logic you use when you're so willing to substitute a completely different laptop, with a different OS, simply because of a slightly different chipset that you probably will never, ever notice in daily usage. Please, just buy the Samsung and stop with the stealth trolling bullshit. 

post #31 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

In the same speech he said the clones were a good idea. He also wasn't in charge of Apple yet in any capacity. You can't use that as example of his modern perspective.

I use it as an example of his business sense.

Somebody's getting sentimental over the MBP 17" or the Mac Pro (that would be me) and not getting any love from their Apple fan brethren? Well, hell, we're dumping the whole Mac line!

post #32 of 71
Even with Apple demand is certainly dictated by price. For laptops use primarily as a home desktop replacement 17" is a prime choice.
post #33 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

You are referring to Wirth's Law made popular by Niklaus Wirth, "Software is getting slower more rapidly than hardware becomes faster."  Wirth attributed the saying to Martin Reiser, who, in the preface to his book on the Oberon System, wrote: The hope is that the progress in hardware will cure all software ills. However, a critical observer may observe that software manages to outgrow hardware in size and sluggishness.

 

- Wikipedia

 

In economics this is referring to as Jevon's paradox.

 

BTW, Do you know "Aunt Minnie?"

Thanks for info - I have observed the Wirth / Reiser truth repeatedly for years. The MBA was the first major step forward. The SSD's make these machine wickedly fast at anything that involves the HD - e.g. opening apps. 

 

Aunt Minnie? Should I know her? Sounds less sexy than Sadie, but whatever. You gonna introduce me?

post #34 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

The Mac is the least popular of Apple's products. It is a niche product, so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it. Steve Jobs said as much ca. 1996 (to paraphrase "If I was in charge of Apple again, I'd milk the Mac for all it's worth and move on to the next big thing.")

I wouldn't qualify 'the Mac' as a niche product quite yet. The ATV may be a niche product and I have always thought of the Mini as a bit niche, but to group all Macs and call them niche at this point is premature. 

post #35 of 71
Quote:
I believe 17" is the least popular of Apple's laptops. It is a niche product so I could easily envision Apple getting rid of it. Alternatively they just might not update the design: The 13" and 15" MacBook Pros lose the optical drives and get all new and much thinner cases but have retina displays to differentiate them from the MacBook Airs, whilst 17" MacBook Pro is a carrier over of last year's model, maybe with a faster CPU.

Ask yourself this: If 17" retina displays are not yet available, does it really make sense for Apple to delay adding retina displays to their most popular models? How many sales would they really lose by not having a 17" retina display?

I agree with Orlando. Remember, in the past, the 17" has always lagged behind the 15" by several months whenever there's been a major design overhall, so the best you can hope for is a release in the fall, long after the introduction of the 13" and 15" models in June. Maybe that's enough time for them to ramp up 17" retina panels, or maybe they don't feel it's worth it and will continue with the old design. Remember also that they've tended to let "niche" designs stagnate when they intend to drop or replace it eventually but aren't quite ready to pull the trigger because its replacement is either late or too expensive. See: 30" Cinema Display; white MacBook; Mac Pro; XServe.
post #36 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioinside View Post

Can someone tell me why I need "retina" resolution in a display I'm viewing from 30" away?  At this distance I certainly can't resolve individual pixels at a .25mm dot pitch, and I wouldn't be that happy burning the additional GPU cycles to push 4x pixels around.

Most people do not sit two and a half feet away from their displays. I can most definitely make out the pixels on an Apple Cinema Display at 15" away and the PPI is not that different.

Also remember we're talking strictly about laptop displays here; people get even closer to them because of the proximity of the keyboard. That's where the need is greatest, which is why you saw it happen first on the devices people hold closest -- iPhone, then iPad, now (smaller) laptops.
post #37 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Thanks for info - I have observed the Wirth / Reiser truth repeatedly for years. The MBA was the first major step forward. The SSD's make these machine wickedly fast at anything that involves the HD - e.g. opening apps. 

 

Aunt Minnie? Should I know her? Sounds less sexy than Sadie, but whatever. You gonna introduce me?

Many people are familiar with Moore's Law but few are familiar with the counterpoint, Wirth's Law.

 

I asked about Aunt Minnie because an "Aunt Minnie" is a medical imaging (aka Radiology) term for a finding (disease or condition) so obvious the late, great Ray Charles could see the finding.  The term is analogous to a physician telling you that your arm is broken when your ulna is sticking 6 inches out to the side.  "Aunt Minnie" is also a popular website for Radiology professionals.  The association is that there is someone with a nom de plume "paxman" on the aforementioned website.  "PACS" (sometimes misspelled "PAX") is a term associated with Radiology as "Picture Archiving and Communications System" (aka "PACS") is, typically, a client-server application for management, storage and remote viewing of medical images (CT, MR, Ultrasound, X-rays (radiographs)) etc.

post #38 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I wouldn't qualify 'the Mac' as a niche product quite yet. The ATV may be a niche product and I have always thought of the Mini as a bit niche, but to group all Macs and call them niche at this point is premature. 

Oh, please, the Mac has long had such small share of the U.S. market and an absolutely puny share of the worldwide market. Just get it over with.

/sarcasm

post #39 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianus View Post
I agree with Orlando. Remember, in the past, the 17" has always lagged behind the 15" by several months whenever there's been a major design overhall, so the best you can hope for is a release in the fall, long after the introduction of the 13" and 15" models in June.

 

That happened twice. Once for the Intel transition and once for the case redesign. Not "always".

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #40 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I wouldn't qualify 'the Mac' as a niche product quite yet. The ATV may be a niche product and I have always thought of the Mini as a bit niche, but to group all Macs and call them niche at this point is premature. 

 

Premature, not to mention completely idiotic. Macs are now selling more than they ever have been in Apple's entire history, by far. The fact that iPhones/iPads are seeing such insane, earth-shattering success doesn't change that fact. Mac sales and growth will keep increasing, while the rest of the PC industry shrinks, and the soon expected overhaul should accelerate that. Macs will not be discontinued until iOS products can replace them completely, and that won't be happening anytime soon. All you concern trolls can sleep tight. 

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