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Apple rebrands 4G LTE iPad as 'iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular' - Page 3

post #81 of 157
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Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

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Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 

iPad Mobile would suffice.

 

But Wi-fi access is also mobile. Not long ago, even laptops were called mobile computing. So I think mobile would be confusing.

 

Could be.  I just don't think that the word "cellular" is the best choice.  Could be that "mobile" is no better.

post #82 of 157
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Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

 

Aren't they indeed, telling you it is acceptable to go 120MPH by the simple fact that is on the speedo?

 

 

 

Nope.  Not even close.

post #83 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

OK, so you're incapable of understanding analogies.
Take a 200 mph car. Now, try to go 200 mph in Manhattan. It's not possible. Does that mean the car can't go 200 mph?
Or take a typical mid-western ice storm in February. Roads are covered with ice. There's no way in the world your car is ever going to get to 200 mph - you'll be off the road long before that. Does that mean that the car can't go 200 mph?
Or perhaps a traffic block where the police are out in force and arrest anyone going over 50 mph. Does that mean that the car can't go over 200 mph?
You need to differentiate the capability of the product from the ability of the infrastructure (roads, laws, or wireless network) to support all of the capabilities. An 4G iPad doesn't suddenly become non-4G when you cross a border. It retains the 4G capability, but the local infrastructure does not support it. It is up to the consumer to know the local rules.
By the same logic, if I buy a Ferrari that will go 220 mph and am cruising along at 200 mph in Germany and then cross into France, is it Ferrari's fault that France doesn't allow that kind of speed?
And, of course, that even ignores the fact that under international standards, 4G is supported in most of the world since HSPA+ meets the legal definition of 4G. And don't start with the 'we should go by what consumers think rather than standards bodies'. The average consumer has no idea what is happening and their opinion is worthless. That's why we have standards bodies.

We're not going to agree on the analogy. I've never seen a "Ford 200mph" being sold in any market. I'm not sure that's because ford is incapable of such a thing.

You still need to point out where this legal definition of 4G lives. Certainly not on any statute I'm familiar with. Standards <> statutes. There are many standards, such as isofix, which simply are not legally recognised here.
post #84 of 157
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Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz View Post

 

 

You seem to be under the misapprehension that the issue is fraudulent advertising.  That is not the issue here.

 

Instead, the issue is misleading advertising.  As such, mere factual correctness doesn't go far enough.  It is entirely possible to mislead an audience and to cite only facts.

 

You need to understand the issue before proposing an opinion about it.  Otherwise, you are likely to mislead the audience by commenting on something not in issue.  

It's more than just that, in Australia anyway, as it is illegal to have something in big bold letters then hide the clauses in the small footprint saying it's something else. This is where Apple went wrong.

post #85 of 157
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Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


We're not going to agree on the analogy. I've never seen a "Ford 200mph" being sold in any market. I'm not sure that's because ford is incapable of such a thing.
You still need to point out where this legal definition of 4G lives. Certainly not on any statute I'm familiar with. Standards <> statutes. There are many standards, such as isofix, which simply are not legally recognised here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_GT

post #86 of 157
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Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Zither Zather Zuzz is correct - the issue is that the claim is misleading, not that it is false. 

If that's the case, then stop whining. Advertising is ALWAYS misleading.

I suppose you were supporting that kid who sued because he used a certain after shave and didn't get laid, right? After all, the ads were misleading.

So why are you picking on Apple when every company in the world uses misleading advertising? And why should Apple get sued for misleading advertising when it's a commonly accepted practice?

You're a hypocrite, too.
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post #87 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post


We're not going to agree on the analogy. I've never seen a "Ford 200mph" being sold in any market. I'm not sure that's because ford is incapable of such a thing.
You still need to point out where this legal definition of 4G lives. Certainly not on any statute I'm familiar with. Standards <> statutes. There are many standards, such as isofix, which simply are not legally recognised here.

The car analogy is stupid and inapplicable to markets that offer other 4G devices than the iPad. One can buy a Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G in, say, Sweden, and it will download at speeds up to 100 Mbps on a local 4G net, so shouldn't one expect that the iPad 4G sold in Sweden can get the same speed on the same network (which it cannot)? You have to include in the silly car analogy that one car cannot go up to 200 mph in the same city in which another car advertised with the same speed can.

post #88 of 157
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Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The car analogy is stupid and inapplicable to markets that offer other 4G devices than the iPad. One can buy a Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G in, say, Sweden, and it will download at speeds up to 100 Mbps on a local 4G net, so shouldn't one expect that the iPad 4G sold in Sweden can get the same speed on the same network (which it cannot)? You have to include in the silly car analogy that one car cannot go up to 200 mph in the same city in which another car advertised with the same speed can.

Same here in Australia http://www.telstra.com.au/bigpond-internet/mobile-tablets/samsung-galaxy-tab-8-9-4G/

post #89 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The car analogy is stupid and inapplicable to markets that offer other 4G devices than the iPad. One can buy a Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G in, say, Sweden, and it will download at speeds up to 100 Mbps on a local 4G net, so shouldn't one expect that the iPad 4G sold in Sweden can get the same speed on the same network (which it cannot)? You have to include in the silly car analogy that one car cannot go up to 200 mph in the same city in which another car advertised with the same speed can.

Really? You expect that every device with the same specs will perform identically? That's a pretty bizarre assumption.

The fact is that 4G speeds vary - just like 3G and 2G speeds. As long as it meets the legal definition of 4G (which it does in most countries unless the country has specifically excluded the ITU definition), it's 4G.

Your comparison is akin to saying "both the Ford Explorer and a Lamborghini are advertised as high performance. Unless the Ford Explorer will go 200 mph and accelerate from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds, it's false advertising because it's not AS high performance as the Lamborghini". That is, of course, absurd. Something can be high performance and still have something else that's faster. Similarly, two devices can be 4G and still have one of the devices be faster.
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post #90 of 157
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Really? You expect that every device with the same specs will perform identically? That's a pretty bizarre assumption.

 

I don't and I never said so. The average consumer may. And it's not bizarre to expect performance to match specifications, that's what they are for.

 


The fact is that 4G speeds vary - just like 3G and 2G speeds. As long as it meets the legal definition of 4G (which it does in most countries unless the country has specifically excluded the ITU definition), it's 4G.
Your comparison is akin to saying "both the Ford Explorer and a Lamborghini are advertised as high performance. Unless the Ford Explorer will go 200 mph and accelerate from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds, it's false advertising because it's not AS high performance as the Lamborghini". That is, of course, absurd. Something can be high performance and still have something else that's faster. Similarly, two devices can be 4G and still have one of the devices be faster.

 

The car analogy is stupid, just drop it. 4G isn't simply "high performance". A device will either connect to a 4G network or not, there are no degrees here.

 

You present so many straw man arguments that you're practically arguing with yourself. Maybe you should consider whether you really disagree with everyone because of difference in opinion, or just to be argumentative.

post #91 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Really? You expect that every device with the same specs will perform identically? That's a pretty bizarre assumption.
The fact is that 4G speeds vary - just like 3G and 2G speeds. As long as it meets the legal definition of 4G (which it does in most countries unless the country has specifically excluded the ITU definition), it's 4G.
Your comparison is akin to saying "both the Ford Explorer and a Lamborghini are advertised as high performance. Unless the Ford Explorer will go 200 mph and accelerate from 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds, it's false advertising because it's not AS high performance as the Lamborghini". That is, of course, absurd. Something can be high performance and still have something else that's faster. Similarly, two devices can be 4G and still have one of the devices be faster.

 

You keeping talking about this legal definition of 4G as if a) it's important, and b) it actually exists. Just because you keeping saying it is and it does doesn't make you right. In spite of everything to the contrary, various national consumer bodies taking action, and Apple itself relabelling the device, you persist. Huge kudos for continuing to fight the fight.

 

Let's face it. You're not in one of those places where this is an issue. You can't speak on the matter because you simply have no idea.

post #92 of 157
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Except it was.

Indeed, iI still is in fact.
post #93 of 157
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Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The car analogy is stupid, just drop it. 4G isn't simply "high performance". A device will either connect to a 4G network or not, there are no degrees here.

You present so many straw man arguments that you're practically arguing with yourself. Maybe you should consider whether you really disagree with everyone because of difference in opinion, or just to be argumentative.


It will connect to a 4G network....
post #94 of 157
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So why are you picking on Apple when every company in the world uses misleading advertising?

 

Why am I picking on Apple in particular? Well, mainly because this is a thread about an Apple product on a website called Apple Insider...

 

I repeat: the fact that other companies do it doesn't make it any more acceptable for Apple to do it. The fact that people commonly steal things doesn't make it OK to steal things.

post #95 of 157
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Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Why am I picking on Apple in particular? Well, mainly because this is a thread about an Apple product on a website called Apple Insider...

I repeat: the fact that other companies do it doesn't make it any more acceptable for Apple to do it. The fact that people commonly steal things doesn't make it OK to steal things.

I'm still waiting for you to explain what Apple did wrong. The iPad connects to 4G networks.
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post #96 of 157
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Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I'm still waiting for you to explain what Apple did wrong. The iPad connects to 4G networks.

I doubt there is any explanation you will understand/except so why would anyone bother?

post #97 of 157
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Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post
I doubt there is any explanation you will understand/except so why would anyone bother?

 

Well, since we all seem to be idiots, how about enlightening us and doing something good today.

 

Try us out. Maybe we can be brought out of the darkness after all. Pretend you're the Firstborn dropping a monolith in front of some hominids.

post #98 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well, since we all seem to be idiots, how about enlightening us and doing something good today.

 

Try us out. Maybe we can be brought out of the darkness after all. Pretend you're the Firstborn dropping a monolith in front of some hominids.

Actually I think of you being much lower than what you described. I'm not going to repeat the many valid arguments that you have already ignored as you didn't get them then so I doubt you would get them now.

 

Either way, it's obvious Apple have finally realised it needed to do the right thing and now have finally put it in place.

post #99 of 157
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Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


It will connect to a 4G network....

Don't take it out of the context. The iPad 4G will NOT connect to the 4G network in Australia while the Galaxy Tab 4G will; the iPad 4G will not connect to the 4G networks in Sweden either, while competing 4G products do. Based on what competing products do in many markets, and based on what Apple is advertising, potential buyers could easily be misled to believe that a 4G iPad bought in their country connects to the 4G network in their country as do other 4G products sold in their country.

 

Apple has recognized the mistake in their marketing and amended it in several countries. Why is a bunch of cheerleaders still too daft to understand that and continues a losing and silly argument? Don't you have trust and respect for Apple's actions?

post #100 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I'm still waiting for you to explain what Apple did wrong. The iPad connects to 4G networks.

 

If you refuse to accept the point that the advertising was misleading and that misleading advertising is wrong, then there's simply nothing more I can do to explain it to you. You have clearly closed your mind to the possibility that Apple might be at fault.

 

Misleading advertising is wrong. That's why Western societies have watchdog bodies which pull companies up on it. It's necessary to protect the consumer, who has much less bargaining power than a company like Apple does. All I can say is that you need to start looking at this from the perspective of the consumer, rather than the perspective of defending Apple to the death.

 

[edit] Here's a better analogy. A gallon in the UK is about 1.2 times the size of a gallon in the US. What if I sold a car in the US and said that it did 40 miles to the gallon, but omitted to mention that I was talking about UK gallons? The American consumer would (rightly) assume I was measuring in US gallons, and would hence buy a car which was 20% less efficient than they thought it was. That is misleading advertising. That is broadly similar to what Apple was doing (except the Apple example is worse, because the iPad doesn't work at all on some 4G networks).


Edited by Euphonious - 5/13/12 at 11:36pm
post #101 of 157
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Somewhat true, but I think the point is that Apple is yet again being singled out here for an error they went out of their way not to commit.  Other companies market 4G LTE products in these countries using the same sort of language and no one has ever taken them to court over it.  Other companies have even called what Apple was calling 3G last year "4G" and sold the products in these countries.  

 

Apple waited until they not only had 4G speeds but also used technology commonly referred to as 4G before even claiming "4G" as a moniker.  They've been way nicer and fairer overall than any of the other companies, yet they are the one's pilloried in the press.  Now that they've walked it back a bit we can probably expect class action lawsuits hoping to cash in on Apple's "admission" that they did something wrong.  

 

It's just tiresome having to see Apple singled out like this time after time.  It's stupid, and I agree with with Tallest Skil on this one. 

I don't recall seeing any other maker marketing a product as 4g in the UK. Do you have any evidence?

 

yes apple are being singled out by the ASA but that is because they have singularly broken the law.

post #102 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I'd suggest that you find some friends with IQs over 60.
Since Apple was factually correct, it doesn't matter if uneducated people jump to the wrong conclusions. Advertising does that all the time.

 

What a tool. Re-read your post, seriously. Then re-read it again, then wise up.

post #103 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

COP OUT.

 

What's with these countries? This isn't Apple's problem. It's an international problem that every country needs to come together and fix.

 

Define what 4G is. Period. Make it illegal to misrepresent that. Problem solved.


I politely disagree with you, sir. It is Apple's problem and it is Apple's responsibility. If I buy a plane ticket to Brest (France), I definitely don't want to land in Brest (Belarus), on the grounds that the airline system made a small mistake, but it doesn't matter, it's Brest anyway. It seems to me that if Apple is not aware/capable of manufacturing/not willing to manufacture iPads that function in 4G elsewhere than in the US, it should advertise it as "iPad 4G-US" or not advertise 4G at all.

 

Right now, it seems either sloppy (Apple, unaware that 4G doesn't work outside of the US borders in the same way as it works inside those borders?), it seems arrogant (who cares about the-rest-of-the-world, we're f***g America, we _are_ the world!), or it seems dishonest (who cares if it doesn't really work outside of the USA, we can always claim our not-American clients can just use their 4G iPads in the USA if they come on a trip and be done with it, them stupid money-spenders!).

 

Anyway, I believe Apple made the right decision in Australia when they offered to buyers to bring their iPad back, and I guess even Apple can make mistakes.

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post #104 of 157
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Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

 

If you refuse to accept the point that the advertising was misleading and that misleading advertising is wrong, then there's simply nothing more I can do to explain it to you. You have clearly closed your mind to the possibility that Apple might be at fault.

 

Misleading advertising is wrong. That's why Western societies have watchdog bodies which pull companies up on it. It's necessary to protect the consumer, who has much less bargaining power than a company like Apple does. All I can say is that you need to start looking at this from the perspective of the consumer, rather than the perspective of defending Apple to the death.

 

[edit] Here's a better analogy. A gallon in the UK is about 1.2 times the size of a gallon in the US. What if I sold a car in the US and said that it did 40 miles to the gallon, but omitted to mention that I was talking about UK gallons? The American consumer would (rightly) assume I was measuring in US gallons, and would hence buy a car which was 20% less efficient than they thought it was. That is misleading advertising. That is broadly similar to what Apple was doing (except the Apple example is worse, because the iPad doesn't work at all on some 4G networks).

Excellent example. The only question is, did Apple lie on purpose, or is Apple unaware that US gallons aren't UK gallons? I guess Android fanboys will go for Apple lying and Apple fanboys will keep pretending that US gallons are UK gallons and uneducated people should create their own measuring unit (anyway, use litres like everyone :p ). In the meantime, I hope (and tend to believe) it is a mistake from Apple.

 

After all, if Ariane 5 can explode, or the American Space Shuttle can explode, it does prove than even gigantic projects can fail spectacularly due to small assumptions (Ariane exploding was "someone will remove that comment line before the launch"... bad assumption, and Challenger died to a joint, frozen, which should have been checked, if I remember well). Maybe someone made the assumption that "marketing will know that this iPad only has 4G in the USA" and no one got aware of that before the iPad went on sale. If the only issue with such a complicated piece of hardware is a marketing f$$$-up, things aren't that dire, are they?

 

And contrary to Challenger, nobody died, so get a glass of Merlot and enjoy, chill...

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post #105 of 157
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Originally Posted by lightknight View Post


I politely disagree with you, sir. It is Apple's problem and it is Apple's responsibility. If I buy a plane ticket to Brest (France), I definitely don't want to land in Brest (Belarus), on the grounds that the airline system made a small mistake, but it doesn't matter, it's Brest anyway. It seems to me that if Apple is not aware/capable of manufacturing/not willing to manufacture iPads that function in 4G elsewhere than in the US, it should advertise it as "iPad 4G-US" or not advertise 4G at all.

Right now, it seems either sloppy (Apple, unaware that 4G doesn't work outside of the US borders in the same way as it works inside those borders?), it seems arrogant (who cares about the-rest-of-the-world, we're f***g America, we _are_ the world!), or it seems dishonest (who cares if it doesn't really work outside of the USA, we can always claim our not-American clients can just use their 4G iPads in the USA if they come on a trip and be done with it, them stupid money-spenders!).

Anyway, I believe Apple made the right decision in Australia when they offered to buyers to bring their iPad back, and I guess even Apple can make mistakes.

Funny how the Apple haters manage to come up with the stupidest analogies.

So landing a plane in the wrong country is equivalent to factually advertising a tablet correctly - but uneducated consumers reach the wrong conclusion? Maybe you need to come up with a REAL analogy, not a ridiculous comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

What a tool. Re-read your post, seriously. Then re-read it again, then wise up.

Is that supposed to be a rebuttal? How about a rational argument as to what I said that was wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

I don't recall seeing any other maker marketing a product as 4g in the UK. Do you have any evidence?

yes apple are being singled out by the ASA but that is because they have singularly broken the law.

OK. So all you have to do is tell us exactly what law Apple has broken. Cite the specific section of the law that was broken and your evidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

If you refuse to accept the point that the advertising was misleading and that misleading advertising is wrong, then there's simply nothing more I can do to explain it to you. You have clearly closed your mind to the possibility that Apple might be at fault.

Misleading advertising is wrong. That's why Western societies have watchdog bodies which pull companies up on it. It's necessary to protect the consumer, who has much less bargaining power than a company like Apple does. All I can say is that you need to start looking at this from the perspective of the consumer, rather than the perspective of defending Apple to the death.

Sorry, but if no one has explained to you that advertising, by its very nature, tries to make things look more attractive than they are, then you're either a 4 year old or hopelessly deluding yourself. Did you back that kid who sued because he didn't get laid after using a certain after shave, too?

If you can point to anything Apple said that was factually wrong, then you have a point. Otherwise, you're whining over nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

[edit] Here's a better analogy. A gallon in the UK is about 1.2 times the size of a gallon in the US. What if I sold a car in the US and said that it did 40 miles to the gallon, but omitted to mention that I was talking about UK gallons? The American consumer would (rightly) assume I was measuring in US gallons, and would hence buy a car which was 20% less efficient than they thought it was. That is misleading advertising. That is broadly similar to what Apple was doing (except the Apple example is worse, because the iPad doesn't work at all on some 4G networks).

Yet another stupid analogy from an Apple hater.
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post #106 of 157

I import products from the USA to resell in the EU.

 

I have to re-label some of the products, either because the name is deemed misleading or because the product description/claims go beyond the legally accepted levels of implication.

 

Whilst I would rather not have to shell out the extra money, I am mindfull of the fact that I am not forced to import the products. By and large I try to adhere to the law. If I make a mistake then the Powers That Be will ask me to make the requisite changes, granting me a period of grace. In the main they are not interested in punitive measures, they are however oblidged to uphold the laws that exist to protect consumers.

 

The onus was on Apple to ensure that they were compliant. They messed up. They should have said sorry and moved on. I really don't see what the argument is about.

 

Most firms tweak their product to suit the nation state. Apple obviously didn't want to do this, the economic case for not doing so is compelling but if it were that important then they should have just stuck to allowing customers to purchase through grey channels.

post #107 of 157
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Originally Posted by lightknight View Post
It seems to me that if Apple is not aware/capable of manufacturing/not willing to manufacture iPads that function in 4G elsewhere than in the US…

 

The chips didn't exist to serve everywhere at once. I don't know if they do yet

 

Quote:

…or it seems dishonest (who cares if it doesn't really work outside of the USA, we can always claim our not-American clients can just use their 4G iPads in the USA if they come on a trip and be done with it, them stupid money-spenders!).

 

I don't see how that's dishonest. I realize this is all speculation on the past, but it would have worked out well to call it the "iPad Wi-Fi+4G" on the US and Canadian sites and the "iPad Wi-Fi+3G" on all other sites… but with a same size, same font, slightly grayer appendix next to the name "(4G US-only)".


That way they get to advertise LTE support, but the disclaimer is blatant enough to not have had this happen.


I dunno, Apple handled this rather poorly, but the people saying it "isn't 4G" are as deluded as anyone saying Apple did no wrong here. I don't know that there IS the latter, but I'm just saying. lol.gif

post #108 of 157

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Yet another stupid analogy from an Apple hater.

 

Care to explain to me what is 'stupid' about it, other than the fact that it contradicts your point of view? Because in my experience, people who resort to attacking the person generally do so because they're losing the argument.

 

I'm not an Apple hater at all. I own an iPhone and an MBP and I love them both. I think Apple makes some extraordinary products.

 

All I'm doing is holding Apple to the exact same standard that I would hold any other company. If this story was about Samsung or HTC doing exactly the same thing, then I would make the exact same criticisms. You need to stop seeing things in such a black-and-white way, as if everybody has to either 'love' or 'hate' Apple. There is a very fertile middle ground. I think that Apple fully deserves the success it's experienced, but I also think that Apple - like every other company - has flaws, and this incident demonstrates one of them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Did you back that kid who sued because he didn't get laid after using a certain after shave, too?

 

 

No, because that is what's known legally as a 'mere puff'. It's not legally enforceable because no reasonable person would seriously believe that using an aftershave could get you girls. The 4G issue is different, because it could mislead a consumer who was displaying a sufficient level of scrutiny into thinking that the product did something which it doesn't.

post #109 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

The chips didn't exist to serve everywhere at once. I don't know if they do yet

 

 

 

Far point, but they could have released versions that would work in the countries that they were being sold in, or they could have saved a few pennies in the states that have no LTE and used cheaper non-LTE chips, or sold them without suggesting that they had features that are not relevant to those areas.

 

Caveat emptor is a pretty poor way for any firm to conduct themselves.

post #110 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

Care to explain to me what is 'stupid' about it, other than the fact that it contradicts your point of view? Because in my experience, people who resort to attacking the person generally do so because they're losing the argument.

No, it was simply a stupid analogy.

In the iPad situation, Apple is advertising the device as 4G. It will receive LTE and HSPA+ signals if you have the right frequency. But even if your country doesn't have the right frequency, the device still receives LTE and HSPA+ signals if you go to a country that does. That is, the DEVICE is fully capable even if your network is not. Furthermore, Apple was very clear in their launch exactly which countries were supported with LTE> And even if you continue to use it in a country which is not supported, it will still work, albeit somewhat slower. And since the advertising says "UP TO 4G", they were entirely accurate even if you don't accept the world standard ITU definition.

Your stupid analogy was to claim that it was equivalent to an airline sending you to an entirely different country. I'm still at a loss as to how you think that's even remotely comparable.

If you wanted to use an airline analogy, the closest analogy would be if Apple advertised a plane capable of speeds up to 550 mph. You calculate that it should take 7 hours to get to Paris. However, Canada and the UK implement speed limits for the airplanes and won't let them fly over 400 mph - so your flight to Paris takes 9 hours instead of 7. That's nothing like getting you to the wrong country - and also not Apple's fault. The plane is capable of 550 mph even if local rules won't allow it to achieve that speed.
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #111 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Your stupid analogy was to claim that it was equivalent to an airline sending you to an entirely different country. I'm still at a loss as to how you think that's even remotely comparable.

 

You're reading the wrong post... I never mentioned an airline!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If you wanted to use an airline analogy, the closest analogy would be if Apple advertised a plane capable of speeds up to 550 mph. You calculate that it should take 7 hours to get to Paris. However, Canada and the UK implement speed limits for the airplanes and won't let them fly over 400 mph - so your flight to Paris takes 9 hours instead of 7. That's nothing like getting you to the wrong country - and also not Apple's fault. The plane is capable of 550 mph even if local rules won't allow it to achieve that speed.
 

You keep making this point, and it keeps being flawed for the same reason. '550 mph', unlike '4G', is a term which is only capable of one possible meaning and therefore incapable of being misleading.


Edited by Euphonious - 5/14/12 at 11:17am
post #112 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Far point, but they could have released versions that would work in the countries that they were being sold in, or they could have saved a few pennies in the states that have no LTE and used cheaper non-LTE chips, or sold them without suggesting that they had features that are not relevant to those areas.

Caveat emptor is a pretty poor way for any firm to conduct themselves.

Your 'solution' is silly.

Using non-LTE chips probably wouldn't save any money. Rewriting all the procedures, stocking extra parts, extra QC, and problems created from the switch would exceed the savings.

Furthermore, why should they do that when some of the countries WILL get LTE of the appropriate frequencies before the iPad is discarded? Apple's way, they'll get a free upgrade if that happens. Your way, they'd be out of luck. Plus, some people actually travel to other countries. The way it works now, if you buy an LTE iPad and travel to the US or Canada (or, in the future, some other countries), it will work at LTE speeds. Your 'solution' would have eliminated that possibility.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #113 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



Your stupid analogy was to claim that it was equivalent to an airline sending you to an entirely different country. I'm still at a loss as to how you think that's even remotely comparable.

I think Euphonious is talking about the gallon analogy, the one that you called stupid in post #106 when you also called him hater. It is a much better analogy than the ones you're trying to peddle; however, the situation is simple enough to not need any analogies.

 

I also wonder if the iPad - Cellular can really be used to roam on US networks. Wouldn't that require a special 4G SIM card -- one that UK customers likely won't get?

post #114 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I also wonder if the iPad - Cellular can really be used to roam on US networks. Wouldn't that require a special 4G SIM card -- one that UK customers likely won't get?

iPad comes with a USA 4G compatible SIM which is also backwardly compatible with global 3G protocols.

 

I still think Apple is big enough to build several different iPads and make it compatible with whatever the fastest GSM or CDMA based frequencies/protocols that are found in each of the major regions in which they want to sell the device. The packaging and branding should address normal network technologies of the locale.

 

They made a special iPhone for a single carrier in China, I think they should consider expanding that policy worldwide.

 

Otherwise the only sensible name would have to look like iPad Wi-Fi + World 3G/USA 4G which is just ugly.

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post #115 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

iPad comes with a USA 4G compatible SIM which is also backwardly compatible with global 3G protocols.

 

I still think Apple is big enough to build several different iPads and make it compatible with whatever the fastest GSM or CDMA based frequencies/protocols that are found in each of the major regions in which they want to sell the device. The packaging and branding should address normal network technologies of the locale.

 

They made a special iPhone for a single carrier in China, I think they should consider expanding that policy worldwide.

 

Otherwise the only sensible name would have to look like iPad Wi-Fi + World 3G/USA 4G which is just ugly.

Thanks for the info; I fully agree that the most consumer-friendly strategy would have been to build one or more European/Australian models, and have made the same point myself on other threads on this topic. Ambiguous marketing was apparently better for Apple's bottom line.

post #116 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Thanks for the info; I fully agree that the most consumer-friendly strategy would have been to build one or more European/Australian models, and have made the same point myself on other threads on this topic. Ambiguous marketing was apparently better for Apple's bottom line.

I don't think they had any devious intent. They are careful enough to provide the correct power plug for the device in each region. They just need to take that sort of attention to detail to the next level.

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post #117 of 157

The iPad 3 is not a 4G device, regardless of whether it can connect to a LTE network or not, simply because LTE is not a 4G technology. It's 3.9G at best.

post #118 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnemonic View Post

The iPad 3 is not a 4G device, regardless of whether it can connect to a LTE network or not, simply because LTE is not a 4G technology. It's 3.9G at best.

After waking up from the cryogenic chamber did you stop to take a pee first or did you go to logging to AI to comment on a thread?

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post #119 of 157

3.9G isn't very catchy for marketing departments, though :P

 

Technically you may be right, but in common parlance I think we've reached the point where it's quite uncontroversial to say that LTE is 4G.

post #120 of 157

Of course, however there might be a slight issue when the iPad will actually support a true 4G technology. On the other hand, they can then just go on and call it 5G...

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