or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Official WWDC '12 Predictions Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official WWDC '12 Predictions Thread

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 

With the Worldwide Developer's Conference less than a month away, let's start the ball rolling on what maybe announced at the keynote on Monday, June 11th at 1:00 PM in San Fran.

 

  • Tim will start by noting how quickly tickets sold out, summarizing Apple's strong business, and the rise of both iOS and Mac compared to the rest of the market.  Transitions to iOS 6.
  • Scott dives into new iOS 6 features.  I wonder what new features Apple has in store?  I heard that they might be addressing management & deployment issues.
  • Tim recaps iOS 6 with street date & price.  Transitions to Mac and OS X.
  • Craig will come out to highlight & demo some of the new features of OS X 10.8 "Mountain Lion"
  • Tim back on state to announce release on Mac App Store and pricing, transition to new MacBook Pro
  • Phil comes up to discuss details of new MacBook Pro design: Ivy Bridge, thinner design, Retina-class display, loses optical & Ethernet, 802.11ac WiFi, USB 3
  • Tim back on stage with MacBook Pro pricing and availability; shows a video on new MacBook Pro design with Jonny, Bob, etc., then transitions to iOS 6
  • One more thing? Will Apple still do that?  Mac Pro?!

 

But will there be more?  I can't imagine with all that I mentioned that they can fit much more into two hours!

You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
post #2 of 50

Final Mountain Lion preview for developers.

  • Siri, maybe?
  • Other general tweaks and fixes


First look at iOS 6:

  • Incredible new Maps application
  • Siri API
  • Same GUI

 

No new hardware (it'll all be out before the event, though I realize that's pushing it at this point). This is probably the most optimistic I've ever been about hardware, and I'll STILL be proven wrong.  lol.gif

 

No "One More Thing". That's Steve's bit.

post #3 of 50

The only way the Mac Pro gets attention is if it's a total redesign. Then they might use it to generate buzz and to talk about Thunderbolt.

 

If all we're looking at is the long-delayed Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 refresh, then no way it makes the keynote.

post #4 of 50

More thoughts on the Mac Pro. I agree with others who have scoffed at the idea Apple will kill the Mac Pro and concede those markets to Windows. Let's not forget where it all started. Mac OS X is still the foundation of the iOS universe -- to keep it ahead of the curve, Apple needs to produce hardware for the most powerful Intel processors.

 

As it stands, however, a likely 2011 Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 Mac Pro refresh never happened, thanks to Intel's delays, and now we have a weird confluence of factors -- the E5s going into full production only recently, Mountain Lion leaving behind the Mac Pro 1,1 and 2,1, Thunderbolt now fully implemented throughout the rest of Apple's line of computers and in the Thunderbolt Display, and, finally, an aging Cinema Display that is no longer sold in stores and is only available online.

 

What can we predict from this?

 

[1] A Mac Pro refresh with Sandy Bridge Xeon E5s will be multiple-processor across the board. There are no single-processor E5s. This much is certain. At the very least, a refreshed low-end stock Mac Pro and/or Server will have 8 (2x4) cores.

 

[2] It remains possible that instead of a refresh, we get a redesign. Basically, a Mac Pro redesign originally planned for Ivy Bridge is pushed forward, simply because Apple can't wait any longer.

 

[3] Almost certainly a Mac Pro refresh or redesign will work with the current Thunderbolt Display. Using DVI will be possible, but we can't be sure that it will be built in (although I think that is likely). The old Cinema Display will be discontinued.

 

[4] Something else likely to appear in a redesign, and possibly in a refresh: an SSD boot drive built in (I'll guess 256 GB for the stock low-end model and the server, while the stock mid-range and high-end models feature 512 GB).


Edited by TenThousandThings - 5/17/12 at 9:40am
post #5 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenThousandThings View Post

[3] Almost certainly a Mac Pro refresh or redesign will work with the current Thunderbolt Display. Using DVI will be possible, but we can't be sure that it will be built in (although I think that is likely). The old Cinema Display will be discontinued.

 

I recently read an article where they used an Apple Thunderbolt Display connected to a Ivy Bridge PC motherboard with a graphics card. They just connected the display to the Thunderbolt port on the motherboard and it was able to get image from the graphics card. Apple will certainly make the same thing. If you don't have a Thunderbolt display, you just connect your DVI display directly to the graphics card as people used to do.

post #6 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenThousandThings View Post

The only way the Mac Pro gets attention is if it's a total redesign. Then they might use it to generate buzz and to talk about Thunderbolt.

 

If all we're looking at is the long-delayed Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 refresh, then no way it makes the keynote.

I'm not confident we're going to see a lot of hardware announcements at it, but I'd like to hear about updated hardware soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenThousandThings View Post

More thoughts on the Mac Pro. I agree with others who have scoffed at the idea Apple will kill the Mac Pro and concede those markets to Windows. Let's not forget where it all started. Mac OS X is still the foundation of the iOS universe -- to keep it ahead of the curve, Apple needs to produce hardware for the most powerful Intel processors.

 

As it stands, however, a likely 2011 Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 Mac Pro refresh never happened, thanks to Intel's delays, and now we have a weird confluence of factors -- the E5s going into full production only recently, Mountain Lion leaving behind the Mac Pro 1,1 and 2,1, Thunderbolt now fully implemented throughout the rest of Apple's line of computers and in the Thunderbolt Display, and, finally, an aging Cinema Display that is no longer sold in stores and is only available online.

 

What can we predict from this?

 

[1] A Mac Pro refresh with Sandy Bridge Xeon E5s will be multiple-processor across the board. There are no single-processor E5s. This much is certain. At the very least, a refreshed low-end stock Mac Pro and/or Server will have 8 (2x4) cores.

 

[2] It remains possible that instead of a refresh, we get a redesign. Basically, a Mac Pro redesign originally planned for Ivy Bridge is pushed forward, simply because Apple can't wait any longer.

 

[3] Almost certainly a Mac Pro refresh or redesign will work with the current Thunderbolt Display. Using DVI will be possible, but we can't be sure that it will be built in (although I think that is likely). The old Cinema Display will be discontinued.

 

[4] Something else likely to appear in a redesign, and possibly in a refresh: an SSD boot drive built in (I'll guess 256 GB for the stock low-end model and the server, while the stock mid-range and high-end models feature 512 GB).

You can still implement E5s in a single package configuration. You would have fewer available PCI lanes in a single package, but it would still work. Alternatively they could use the upcoming Ivy models for a single package model. The mac pro actually began using a dual socket board rather than the daughterboard configuration that they have today. It started at $2300 with the $2500 configuration being a significant jump for a minor price increase. I don't think they'll return to such a model, but this is more of a guess going by their current tangent than really based on anything. I mean I don't think they'd really break away from their current pricing model unless they were trying to push the Mac Pro, and that seems less likely. Personally nothing that is offered currently makes sense for me today. The 6 core is decent, but it's quite expensive. I don't want to drop  that much this far into a cycle. The other machines are becoming more an issue of lacking features than raw power for me personally. 

post #7 of 50

that board had on board video and used the tech that let only use the add in pci-e board when needed the Sandy Bridge-E cpu's do have on board video.

post #8 of 50

I think as shown in the Q2 Earnings announcement, Tim Cook mentioned that the Macbook Air lineup had a very bright future, and the models are the most popular line of macbooks they are selling currently, so they will provide an update to it. I do see less of the macbook pro 17 inch, but will likely see an updated 15 inch model with wifi n/ac and blueray in the near future. As for iOS... I think they have to implement Ping into the music app, and Siri to recognize more commands, like open (name of app) or read me my emails, or check my bills. (haha, on the last one.. but not a bad idea). Who knows? In 2 years tops I expect retina display Macbook Air's, iPhone with haptic feedback, the new iTV with Siri, Siri on macbook's, wifi 802.11 ad, haptic iPad 4, then eventually haptic Macbook Air keyboards ( lcd based, that ui changes and is multitouch. For the iPod... better speaker, better power consumption levels thanks to 32nm and beyond technology processing, and iOS with share to iDevice handshake, meaning you could send large files through nfc or bluetooth to other devices with iMessages, example attaching a word document and sending it over to another iDevice without opening the email application... eventually. eventually.

post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat09 View Post
…will likely see an updated 15 inch model with wifi n/ac and blue ray in the near future.


BA HA HA HA HA! The optical drive is going away entirely. There will never be Blu-ray Macs.

 

Quote:
In 2 years tops I expect retina display Macbook Air's, iPhone with haptic feedback, the new iTV with Siri, Siri on macbook's, wifi 802.11 ad, haptic iPad 4, then eventually haptic Macbook Air keyboards ( lcd based, that ui changes and is multitouch. 

 

I buy everything but a television, the haptic tablets, and the haptic laptops. Also provided you mean 802.11ac and that's just a typo.

 

Quote:

…iOS with share to iDevice handshake…

 

I somehow doubt this, but it could happen, I guess.

post #10 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


BA HA HA HA HA! The optical drive is going away entirely. There will never be Blu-ray Macs.

 

 

I buy everything but a television, the haptic tablets, and the haptic laptops. Also provided you mean 802.11ac and that's just a typo.

 

I somehow doubt this, but it could happen, I guess.

Nope 802.11 ad. it's what's after ac. that's in 2 years. And yeah... i personally also think the optical drive is going away... hah.

post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat09 View Post
Nope 802.11 ad. it's what's after ac. that's in 2 years.

 

I feel old. Cheerleading for ac when ad's what I should be after.

 

No, never mind, forget that.

 

802.22. Do it, Apple. Kill the carriers for data.

post #12 of 50

Tallest Skil is quite right.  Apple will never, ever support Blu Ray in any product.  To do so would be contrary to Apple's strategic interests.

 
 
Mac user since August 1983.
Reply
Mac user since August 1983.
Reply
post #13 of 50

What the favor/not in favor percentage of blu-ray for Macs? I see it as 40/60.

post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

What the favor/not in favor percentage of blu-ray for Macs? I see it as 40/60.

I'd suggest that those in favor of BluRay are in the single digit percentages. You really can't count on the posts here representing the users at large. Many of us reject BluRay dispute to the legal requirements which are overbearing and counter productive. Many more don't even make use of the DVD drives on a regular basis. So really BluRay isn't a concern if you don't believe you need an optical drive at all.

In the end optical is a dead technology.
post #15 of 50
Leaks? Will we see any leaks before WWDC? The tight clamp on information really has kept us in the dark. Predictions are nice bit it would be fun to see a really good leak of information to hash over before WWDC.
post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
What the favor/not in favor percentage of blu-ray for Macs? I see it as 40/60.

 

Ten for, ninety against, with the former only wanting it because they don't know any better. And ten percent is really pushing it.

 

That's my opinion, at least. It's close to right, though. lol.gif


Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post
Leaks? Will we see any leaks before WWDC? The tight clamp on information really has kept us in the dark. Predictions are nice bit it would be fun to see a really good leak of information to hash over before WWDC.
 

If there's a redesign for the MacBook Pro, I would think we'd see the shell over the weekend before WWDC. And if you go to MacRumors, you'll see thousands of morons screaming about how it's faked, posting inverse-color images from Photoshop pointing out how "this group of pixels doesn't look right" and how "this port doesn't line up with these other ports"… 

 

They're morons, to be sure, but those were some good times. The last time I tore apart leaked images in earnest was when the old case Mac Mini got a Mini DisplayPort port in the back. After I was wrong about my prediction on that, I started taking it far less seriously.

 

I obviously look forward to all leaked images, but I think I enjoy more now the scrambling from forum users claiming it's real or fake than the thrill of seeing a genuine product early. lol.gif

post #17 of 50

I think if Apple wants to be a global powerhouse the devices need to focus on energy efficiency. I suspect they know this better than I do. Thus, in so far as we'll see refreshes for certain products  (MBP, Mac Pro, and iTV for starters) the focus will be on their minimal power consumption albeit with substantial computational power.

 

This is something that European manufacturers have been refining for over a decade in other industries (Tunze powerheads and reef tank lighting immediately come to mind for example) due to the high cost of electricity in those countries. If we couple this logic with Apple's move toward renewable energy and the outlook that the rest of the world is shifting toward renewables it makes sense to me that's where Apple would aim.

post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Ten for, ninety against, with the former only wanting it because they don't know any better. And ten percent is really pushing it.

That's my opinion, at least. It's close to right, though. lol.gif
Ten percent is pushing it. I'd much rather have to mass storage devices in my MBP and just plug in a DVD drive when I need it. As to BluRay I avoid that like a crack whore on the side walk.
Quote:

If there's a redesign for the MacBook Pro, I would think we'd see the shell over the weekend before WWDC. And if you go to MacRumors, you'll see thousands of morons screaming about how it's faked, posting inverse-color images from Photoshop pointing out how "this group of pixels doesn't look right" and how "this port doesn't line up with these other ports"… 
I don't care about the morons, it is the conversation and speculation that I find interesting.
Quote:
They're morons, to be sure, but those were some good times. The last time I tore apart leaked images in earnest was when the old case Mac Mini got a Mini DisplayPort port in the back. After I was wrong about my prediction on that, I started taking it far less seriously.
This isn't something to take seriously though I know many do. my thing right now is that I see Apples desktop line up as very stagnet and even worst not really suitable for the market.
Quote:
I obviously look forward to all leaked images, but I think I enjoy more now the scrambling from forum users claiming it's real or fake than the thrill of seeing a genuine product early. lol.gif

I just assume everything is fake until Apple debuts the machines.

As to what is up I'm still expecting a major refactoring of just about all of the machines. The time is really right for Apple to shake up the market.
post #19 of 50

The "Mac Pro" is due to die.  Whether a quick kill or withering death is TBD.  I suspect sales of the Mac Pro are now so low as to not justify the continuation of the line.

 

Apple is a "consumer" oriented company now - that's where all the dough comes from now.  So desktop and portables will reflect that.

 

The iMac will supplant the Pro.  It will come with optional dual processors.  They may be limited to quad cores, but possibly hex or octo in a few years.

 

For those "Pro" users who need the "breakout" capability of the pro frame there may be solace in the form of keeping existing pro boxes but controlled from an iMac/laptop via thunderbolt or USB 3.

 

FW 800?  I'd bet if new Macs have FW it will be the last and that new Macs will all sport USB 3.

 

Has anyone even seen FW 1600/3200 devices out there?

 

The CD/DVD drive will be gone as well in new iMacs.  If you need it, get an external drive.  That will satisfy those who need BluRay as well.

post #20 of 50

Wizard69 wrote:

As to BluRay I avoid that like a crack whore on the side walk.

 

Do you mean as media for computing or generally?

post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbrowne View Post
The "Mac Pro" is due to die. 

 

Hardly.

 

Quote:
Whether a quick kill or withering death is TBD. I suspect sales of the Mac Pro are now so low as to not justify the continuation of the line.

 

And I 'suspect' sales aren't the biggest consideration in keeping it around.

 

Quote:
The iMac will supplant the Pro.  It will come with optional dual processors.  They may be limited to quad cores, but possibly hex or octo in a few years.

 

That's laughable. Particularly since no one will be making processors of that nature suited for the iMac.

 

Quote:
…controlled from an iMac/laptop via thunderbolt or USB 3.

 

As though USB 3 has any future in that regard.

 

Quote:
Has anyone even seen FW 1600/3200 devices out there?

 

Well… they're approved, at least. lol.gif

post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbrowne View Post

 

 

The iMac will supplant the Pro.  It will come with optional dual processors.  They may be limited to quad cores, but possibly hex or octo in a few years.

 

For those "Pro" users who need the "breakout" capability of the pro frame there may be solace in the form of keeping existing pro boxes but controlled from an iMac/laptop via thunderbolt or USB 3.

 

 

Are you a troll or just ignorant? Consumer devices are not going the direction of multi socket configurations. They're headed in the opposing direction. You need dual socket compliant cpus to make this work with Xeons. Outside of Xeons they're going the direction of integrating more and more into the cpu package to cut costs. Using two discrete cpu packages is just not going to happen unless they completely reverse their direction. Core count is a matter of programming, yields, and other things. You may see it increase, but I think they'll allocate the space differently before increasing core count again given the typically less than linear scaling and  the desire to preserve margins on their higher end chips.  You can debate how much computer is needed for one user or another. Higher end configurations will still exist for many years as server farms still exist today. 

post #23 of 50

Just give me a MacBook Pro update and I will be happy. I may have said this before here or perhaps I mentioned it on another site. I don't want Apple to go the way that E3 did for me.

 

E3 used to introduce the latest games that people actually wanted and in the past few years has been terrible aside from a few things. I get that some people are interested in iOS 6 and ML and I want to see stuff on that too even though I don't own an iPhone (yet) and probably won't upgrade to ML until next year. Though I always get excited for product updates now and new designs. It's been that way since 2008 which is when I really started to take notice of Apple with the unibody MacBooks.

 

The comparison though I draw to E3 is if WWDC is just iOS 6 and ML, it'll be like expecting say Nintendo to have the next big Mario or Zelda game only to get Guitar Hero and Wii Fit. Or when the PS3 was introduced, what everyone remembers there (R-r-r-r-r-ridge racer and $599 $599 $599 US Dollars).

post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Are you a troll or just ignorant? Consumer devices are not going the direction of multi socket configurations. They're headed in the opposing direction. You need dual socket compliant cpus to make this work with Xeons. Outside of Xeons they're going the direction of integrating more and more into the cpu package to cut costs. Using two discrete cpu packages is just not going to happen unless they completely reverse their direction. Core count is a matter of programming, yields, and other things. You may see it increase, but I think they'll allocate the space differently before increasing core count again given the typically less than linear scaling and  the desire to preserve margins on their higher end chips.  You can debate how much computer is needed for one user or another. Higher end configurations will still exist for many years as server farms still exist today. 

 

 

Why do you leap to ask if someone is a troll or blast them for ignorance just because they present a different path for discussion?  Just answer it without the ad hominem.

 

Apple abandoned professional servers as their first volley in balancing their offering.

 

Most appliances we attach to our macs are serial interfaced.

 

The iMac's are now at their physical largest (27") and sport dual disks (one is SSD to be sure).  Why not dual CPU's?  While (IMO) there may not be very much need for the MP's monster case, there is always need by video and other compute intense types for high performance machines.  The casing of the MP is ridiculously large and the 27" iMac (even if needing a slightly deeper case) can accommodate 2 CPU sockets.

 

Another reason for the monster MP case is disk drives.  With Thunderbolt there is not need to have all those disks inside the cabinet - push them out.

 

I'm not claiming I'm right just that Apple have a lot more options on paths coupled to a long standing (since the return of Jobs) of streamlining the offerings.  That's why the Xserve went away. Are there enough MP sales to justify a new version?

 

I see there's another thread where someone predicts that the Pro will keep on going.  Great if it does.

post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbrowne View Post

Why not dual CPU's?

 

Because it's physically impossible to put the dual chip platform in the iMac case and no new chips suited for this purpose are slated to be created… ever?

 

Quote:
With Thunderbolt there is not need to have all those disks inside the cabinet - push them out.

 

Cabling mess, I believe is the issue there.

post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Because it's physically impossible to put the dual chip platform in the iMac case and no new chips suited for this purpose are slated to be created… ever?
Actually it gets easier every year to make te IMac a multiprocessor machine. As integration goes up and feature size goes down space will be freed up for a multi processor iMac.

Now I don't believe Apple will go this route, just that technically it becomes easier to do every year. Especially now that customers are demanding lower thermal expenses from server solutions. Heat in a data center is nothing but waste so it wouldn't be impossible to have a suitable set of work station (Xeons) available for the iMac.
Quote:

Cabling mess, I believe is the issue there.

Actually cabling is a huge issue here. It isn't just the mess either, the TB connector just doesn't inspire lots of confidence. You have a significantly greater risk of accidental disconnect.

That being said I suspect Apple will try to split off the bulk storage into a separate box. Doing so would allow them to lower the price of the "CPU" box significantly. I can see Apple searching for an answer to the sluggish sales problem the Pro has and one factor there is base system cost.

Beyond that TB isn't magic. If you try to push to much data throught that hose you will slow down your computer. This is a more serious problem than many are willing to acknowledge.
post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Actually cabling is a huge issue here. It isn't just the mess either, the TB connector just doesn't inspire lots of confidence. You have a significantly greater risk of accidental disconnect.
That being said I suspect Apple will try to split off the bulk storage into a separate box. Doing so would allow them to lower the price of the "CPU" box significantly. I can see Apple searching for an answer to the sluggish sales problem the Pro has and one factor there is base system cost.
Beyond that TB isn't magic. If you try to push to much data throught that hose you will slow down your computer. This is a more serious problem than many are willing to acknowledge.

The fact remains you'd have to rethink the hardware used completely, especially in terms of logic board design. This would be more likely on a tock cycle given that they could use the board for two generations that way. 

 

I've been looking at TB, and to me it's still a first generation product. Coupling with a display is one issue that hinders its use in place of a desktop with a lot of ports and bandwidth. I don't know what the total PCI lane allocation is on mobile boards, so I don't know if they could output both thunderbolt and display signals on separate ports with independent bandwidth pools. You mentioned slowing down the computer. I thought thunderbolt carried a very low cpu overhead, or is the concern that it can saturate the QPI on a laptop? Or are you talking about trying to push too many devices through one port? 

 

The mac pro base system cost is out of line for what really goes in it. They used the internals comparable to budget configurations from other retailers. As you go toward higher end configurations and dual cpu package models, it evens out. Overall though I don't see the imac adopting that socket type anytime soon. I doubt it would fit, and Intel's went with 130W cpus this round. 

 

Anyway the current macbook pro actually pushes some impressive numbers, and I was looking at one because I look at everything. I'd own a laptop either way. It just gets updated less frequently. Bandwidth and ports were an unfortunate problem. When at my desk, I like to use 1-2 large displays. I have some basic hot swappable JBOD storage + backups. I have two dongle key licenses, a wide format printer, a large intuos tablet, random thumb drives, and a couple idevices to synch. In certain cases there are things that have to be plugged into certain ports. With my displays, I'm not sure if they can be calibrated running off a hub. The colorimeter plugs into the display on one, which is a nice feature. The tablet has to plug into a port with full power. It won't run off a hub. Overall my bandwidth needs aren't too terrible outside of saving files. Not wanting to deal with raid means that I accept  slower speeds there, but I may be forced to go to a RAID configuration in the near future for bandwidth reasons. SSDs are not appropriate for this yet. They have too many issues, especially in RAID 5.  I've banged my head against the wall many times trying to explain to others not to use cheap drives in their RAID 5 setups or that RAID 1 does not cover them for backups.

 

The point of all of this was that even from a cpu perspective they're often pretty close, the capability to run cool for long periods of time and deal with higher bandwidth needs when necessary is still kind of limited to desktops in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to shared bandwidth. 

 

Even if Apple goes to usb3 this year, will it be like firewire 800 +400 on older imacs where they were running off a single bridge? If you don't remember, it used to be that if both were populated, you ran at firewire 400 speeds due to a shared bridge.

 

I really don't mind a trend toward smaller hardware. With a lot of software that I've used, it doesn't always address all cores efficiently outside of really long tasks. The point was that Apple would need to change many things before the ceiling available to one becomes identical to the other. If instead they just go for thinner is better and continue to strip bandwidth in favor of better battery life due to fewer parts receiving power, then it will take much longer for such a thing to be feasible. It's important to look at the direction of each product line. If the focus of the lower one stayed on maximizing throughput, it would be different. As of right now the macbook pros still only have 2 usb ports, and i'm not sure if they're on a shared bandwidth pool.

post #28 of 50

New Pro announced. Uses many, many ARM processors.

post #29 of 50

I don't like the idea of losing Ethernet, but 802.11ac would make that a moot point. However, aren't you guys forgetting something??? With new WiFi, there will have to be new AirPort Extreme routers and new Time Capsules. I'm going to guess 4TB in the $499 version and still 2TB (as opposed to 3TB) in the $299 version, so as to make the higher-priced TC a better value.

 

As for the Retina display, I have one "issue": We've heard a lot about 2880x1800 for the 15" display and while that would be awesome, the amount of SPACE on the desktop will still only be 1440x900, which I consider way too little. The pricier 15" model as it currently stands gives us the option of upgrading to 1680x1050, which, in Retina terms, would have to be a 3360x2100 screen. This is assuming that Apple retains the 16:10 aspect ratio, which I'm almost willing to bet that they won't and instead go with the industry standard, 16:9. If we do see the 16:9 aspect ratio, we will already lose 150 horizontal lines, and in the process valuable desktop space. This would result in a 2880x1536 Retina display (1440x768 doubled). Will we see only one Retina display and will the option for the higher pixel count at the standard "non-Retina" level or will it also be a crazy beautiful high-res high pixel density high ppi proposition? I, for one, sure hope so. :)

 

I also predict that the "One more thing..." will still be around even w/o Jobs.

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

Reply

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

Reply
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

The fact remains you'd have to rethink the hardware used completely, especially in terms of logic board design. This would be more likely on a tock cycle given that they could use the board for two generations that way. 

I've been looking at TB, and to me it's still a first generation product.
Exactly! It has barely left the cradle, this is something many on this forum don't grasp.
Quote:
Coupling with a display is one issue that hinders its use in place of a desktop with a lot of ports and bandwidth. I don't know what the total PCI lane allocation is on mobile boards, so I don't know if they could output both thunderbolt and display signals on separate ports with independent bandwidth pools.
this is a very interesting question as Apple is know to have put the PCI Express bridge to TB on different ports. This could conceivable impact performance but I've yet to see sound benchmarking. If TB sits on the other side of the chipset interface then it has to contend with all traffic across QPI.
Quote:
You mentioned slowing down the computer. I thought thunderbolt carried a very low cpu overhead, or is the concern that it can saturate the QPI on a laptop? Or are you talking about trying to push too many devices through one port? 
Actually to much data. This would especially be an issue if data has to go both ways over QPI.
Quote:
The mac pro base system cost is out of line for what really goes in it. They used the internals comparable to budget configurations from other retailers. As you go toward higher end configurations and dual cpu package models, it evens out. Overall though I don't see the imac adopting that socket type anytime soon. I doubt it would fit, and Intel's went with 130W cpus this round. 
I don't disagree with this but the problem with the low end model is that it still has to cover the same infrastructure as the higher end machines.
Quote:
Anyway the current macbook pro actually pushes some impressive numbers, and I was looking at one because I look at everything. I'd own a laptop either way. It just gets updated less frequently. Bandwidth and ports were an unfortunate problem. When at my desk, I like to use 1-2 large displays. I have some basic hot swappable JBOD storage + backups. I have two dongle key licenses, a wide format printer, a large intuos tablet, random thumb drives, and a couple idevices to synch. In certain cases there are things that have to be plugged into certain ports.
This is another issue that supports mymposition that USB won't go away anytime soon. Those dongle keys can be a big pain in the rear.

Interestingly you seem to describe needs that will mesh well with the coming new Mac Book Pros. In any event in little over a week you will get to see just how good the new machines mesh.
Quote:
With my displays, I'm not sure if they can be calibrated running off a hub. The colorimeter plugs into the display on one, which is a nice feature. The tablet has to plug into a port with full power. It won't run off a hub. Overall my bandwidth needs aren't too terrible outside of saving files. Not wanting to deal with raid means that I accept  slower speeds there, but I may be forced to go to a RAID configuration in the near future for bandwidth reasons. SSDs are not appropriate for this yet. They have too many issues, especially in RAID 5.  I've banged my head against the wall many times trying to explain to others not to use cheap drives in their RAID 5 setups or that RAID 1 does not cover them for backups.
A single RAID in and of itself should never be considered as ones only backup solution. At is something else people don't understand which leads to more head banging.
Quote:
The point of all of this was that even from a cpu perspective they're often pretty close, the capability to run cool for long periods of time and deal with higher bandwidth needs when necessary is still kind of limited to desktops in a lot of ways, especially when it comes to shared bandwidth. 

Even if Apple goes to usb3 this year, will it be like firewire 800 +400 on older imacs where they were running off a single bridge? If you don't remember, it used to be that if both were populated, you ran at firewire 400 speeds due to a shared bridge.
Whatever the configuration it I'll be defined by the Intel hardware if they go Intel. Sadly it seems like Intels USB 3 efforts are half hearted at best.
Quote:
I really don't mind a trend toward smaller hardware. With a lot of software that I've used, it doesn't always address all cores efficiently outside of really long tasks. The point was that Apple would need to change many things before the ceiling available to one becomes identical to the other. If instead they just go for thinner is better and continue to strip bandwidth in favor of better battery life due to fewer parts receiving power, then it will take much longer for such a thing to be feasible. It's important to look at the direction of each product line. If the focus of the lower one stayed on maximizing throughput, it would be different. As of right now the macbook pros still only have 2 usb ports, and i'm not sure if they're on a shared bandwidth pool.

My point is that Apple needs a different approach to Pro hardware if they ever expect to get the base model within a reasonable price range. Many users can benefit from a higher performance machine but don't need an expensive solution like the Mac Pro. Apple really needs to hit $1200 or so for a base performance machine. That may mean a desktop processor with integrated graphics, with the jump to XEONs occurring further up the ladder.
post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

I don't like the idea of losing Ethernet, but 802.11ac would make that a moot point. However, aren't you guys forgetting something??? With new WiFi, there will have to be new AirPort Extreme routers and new Time Capsules. I'm going to guess 4TB in the $499 version and still 2TB (as opposed to 3TB) in the $299 version, so as to make the higher-priced TC a better value.

 


no Ethernet I was in a hotel that had in room Ethernet with out wifi.

post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

I don't like the idea of losing Ethernet, but 802.11ac would make that a moot point.
I don't like loosing Ethernet either. More importantly WiFi of any sort is not an acceptable replacement.
Quote:
However, aren't you guys forgetting something??? With new WiFi, there will have to be new AirPort Extreme routers and new Time Capsules. I'm going to guess 4TB in the $499 version and still 2TB (as opposed to 3TB) in the $299 version, so as to make the higher-priced TC a better value.
Possibly. I've not been able to justify Time Capsules thought. LAN based storage should be expandable otherwise what is the point.
Quote:
As for the Retina display, I have one "issue": We've heard a lot about 2880x1800 for the 15" display and while that would be awesome, the amount of SPACE on the desktop will still only be 1440x900, which I consider way too little.
That is complete and utter bull crap. The space on a 15" screen is the same if it is composed of one pixel or a hundred billion. As to GUI elements Apple has little choice here as the interface would become unusable at 2X resolution increase. Not that is the GUI, apps can and will make use of the pixel density as they see fit. Just grab an iPad 3 to see the advantage.
Quote:
The pricier 15" model as it currently stands gives us the option of upgrading to 1680x1050, which, in Retina terms, would have to be a 3360x2100 screen. This is assuming that Apple retains the 16:10 aspect ratio, which I'm almost willing to bet that they won't and instead go with the industry standard, 16:9.
Apple is one of the few companies with enough influence to do as they see fit and a pricing structure that allows them to be successful. It is funny you brought this up as Imwas at WallMart last night and happened through the electronics area. Most of the really cheap laptops are 16:9, that seldom works out well for power users though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple stay with 16:10 even if that means $100 extra for each screen.
Quote:
If we do see the 16:9 aspect ratio, we will already lose 150 horizontal lines, and in the process valuable desktop space. This would result in a 2880x1536 Retina display (1440x768 doubled). Will we see only one Retina display and will the option for the higher pixel count at the standard "non-Retina" level or will it also be a crazy beautiful high-res high pixel density high ppi proposition? I, for one, sure hope so. 1smile.gif
I don't think you understand what you are talking about here.
Quote:
I also predict that the "One more thing..." will still be around even w/o Jobs.

Maybe. I wouldn't be surprised to see a new twist put on WWDC keynotes.
post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe The Dragon View Post



no Ethernet I was in a hotel that had in room Ethernet with out wifi.

Even when they have WiFi it often has serious issues. There are many reasons beyond this one though to justify the desire for Ethernet.
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


My point is that Apple needs a different approach to Pro hardware if they ever expect to get the base model within a reasonable price range. Many users can benefit from a higher performance machine but don't need an expensive solution like the Mac Pro. Apple really needs to hit $1200 or so for a base performance machine. That may mean a desktop processor with integrated graphics, with the jump to XEONs occurring further up the ladder.

Quoting system is still broken for me for some reason. The problem I frequently find with Apple is configuring a machine that can adequately hit each of my needs. I don't see an imac as likely for me at all. It presents many compromises, yet it doesn't really cover me much better than a laptop (which I'd own in addition anyway). I'm not going to replace my Eizo with the imac display, and 27" is too big for a secondary display. It makes for a very awkward work area. In terms of considering options, okay the quad macbook pro did quite well on some of the tests conducted by barefeats, but I tend to wonder if it can do certain things off the charger without leaning on the battery for extra power. Can it go for longer periods of time without throttling? Is it reliable under heavy use? Can I figure out a port solution for everything? I look at everything before determining a solution. It's certainly easier to configure with a mac pro or any given workstation. In terms of Macs specifically, the mac pro doesn't always get enough attention for its price. Gpu drivers aren't always tuned as well as it's a niche product. They have a raid ROC card that gets nothing but complaints, yet it's still sold as a configuration option. If I can make one of the new macbook pros work, I'll probably buy one of those. That covers me for laptops. If my needs jump, I can add on down the line. The point of contention is more in configuration and functionality than raw power. It's entirely possible to point out individual solutions, but I view it as a checklist. Beyond the basic requirements it must not be prone to failure when subjected to a high duty cycle. I'm aware any electronics can fail, but multiple repair issues would dissuade me in the future.

post #35 of 50

My prediction (aka wild assed guess based on my own hopes and desires):

 

All those TBA dev sessions are about Apps on the aTV and new BT gaming controller API in the iOS 6 SDK...

post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawkin View Post

New Pro announced. Uses many, many ARM processors.

 

I wouldn't laugh.  I think very soon we'll see a "thin client" OS X from Apple on top of a multicore ARM.

post #37 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Because it's physically impossible to put the dual chip platform in the iMac case and no new chips suited for this purpose are slated to be created… ever?

 

 

Cabling mess, I believe is the issue there.

 

Are you suggesting XEON is dead?

 

Cabling messes can't be avoided.  IAC, look at the offerings out there: you can have 4 and more disks in a chassis with a single TB port.  Daisy chain MP to disks to displays and it's done.  (Not sure how much BW is going to suffer with two large displays and doing disk2disk transfers...).

post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanbrowne View Post
Are you suggesting XEON is dead?

 

Nowhere did I say that in any capacity.

post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nowhere did I say that in any capacity.

When you suggested "Because it's physically impossible to put the dual chip platform in the iMac case and no new chips suited for this purpose are slated to be created… ever?"

post #40 of 50

While I've riled a few spirits with the notion that it's the end of the MPro, today I saw the following:

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-apple-parts-leaked-20120606,0,4312732.story

 

(their source is 9to5Mac)

 

indicating a new MPro is a coming as well as MBP, MBA and iMac (21.5/27) and a new Airport Express.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Official WWDC '12 Predictions Thread