Greenpeace projects giant images onto Apple HQ in protest for cleaner iCloud - Page 2

Caring about the environment isn't an all or nothing decision.  There of those of us that care with out having to drive a Prius.  Apple do more than most companies and these tactics simply turn people against all those that care about the environment.  This stupidity plays into the hands of those that think reducing pollution or having clean drinking water is a an infringement of our civil liberties.  If the world had been this polarized back when CFCs were discovered to be so damaging to the environment I am quite sure we'd never have achieved such a worldwide consensus on banning them.  If it were today, CFC gasses would be welcomed as freedom by many and those against as delusional!  Green Peace need to re think their strategies and stop making things worse.

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Originally Posted by jragosta 

... case for tortuous interference .....

Tortious? ;-)

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Originally Posted by Takeo 

I'm a huge Apple fan for 20+ years now... and you know what... I don't have a problem with this. Apple is a big target. I'm sure they do everything they can but you know... you have to expect this kind of stuff when you get to be the size they are now... and if you're Greenpeace trying to get your message out... you're naturally going to go after the highest profile target. Apple is fair game. And it's only a light. It's not like they committed trespassing or vandalism or violence. And it certainly won't hurt Apple. Greenpeace going after Apple is like a flee attacking an elephant. It may be an annoyance to the elephant... but that's all it is. Seriously... no big deal. Let them have their demonstration. They're not hurting anyone.

What kind of weird logic says "big" = target!?

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Originally Posted by Takeo 
Apple is a big target. I'm sure they do everything they can but you know... you have to expect this kind of stuff when you get to be the size they are now... 

So where're all the protests at Microsoft, Google, DropBox, Amazon… ?

Except they just DID.

So you've shown that it's both illegal AND has no point and you're STILL on their side. I think we might have a Greenpeace member here…

Yeah, let's just let them go ahead and break laws.

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Originally Posted by Sevenfeet 

On one hand I think Greenpeace deserves some credit for prodding Apple to get to take sustainability more seriously several years ago.

Just curious, why do you think GP deserves any credit for this?  Al Gore has been on the BOD for like ten years, now.

Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with either GP or Gore.

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Originally Posted by monstrosity 

That's because most environmental groups care about money, far more than they care about the environment.

Correction: "most environmental groups today care more about money ..."

Greenpeace used to be relevant dedicated people doing a good and needed job.  Sadly not any more.  

You can also add most Cancer organisations and Aide groups in your "all they care about is the money" statement.  It's really about the nature of capitalism and our society today and how it's gone off the rails than any particular group.  Big organisations of any kind have a tendency towards corruption and without anyone to stop them and with tacit approval from the population ... 

Oh, the green nazis are at it again.  It is really not about health or the environment, it is about CONTROL.  That is the agenda.  JUST SAY NO TO CARBON CREDITS AND AL GORE'S GLOBAL WARMING FARCE!!!

Let me get this straight, the US in in a depression, and Green nazis want our business to pay for the MOST EXPENSIVE POWER GENERATION TECHNOLOGIES AVAILABLE?!  All to appease their group?  Follow the money -- who is Greenpeace funded by?  I would not be surprised if Al Gore is connected in some fashion!  

Greeenpeace profits as a company by spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt!

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2000/05/01/greenpeace-versus-common-sense

"In 1990, Greenpeace generated an amazing 43 million pieces of junk mail claiming it needed your money to “save the planet.” In 1998 it raised $118 million. Greenpeace, in short, profits from spreading fear.

Unfortunately, Greenpeace is able to fool most of the people, most of the time. At the end of 1998, it had $88 million in its bank accounts. That’s quite a lot for an organization that makes its living condemning “profit-driven big corporations.”"

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Originally Posted by atsysusa 

It is time to start ignoring GreenPeace - actually that happened long ago.

 

GP are socialists that hate corporate success.  Aside from the fact that their 'research' is flawed and they lie about it.

I hate Greenpeace as much as the next person but this is BS.  That whole "they hate corporate success" meme is just extremist capitalist rhetoric and makes about as much sense as saying people who are pro-choice "hate babies." 

Also, Socialism is only considered a bad thing in the USA, where ironically they don't even know the true definition of socialism! (hint, it has nothing to do with Nazis, communism, etc.).  Lots of countries (western countries) are socialist or social-democratic and get along just fine with the business sector.  In fact these countries are generally more prosperous than places like the USA and have much more favourable ratings as places to live.  The people in these countries often have more human rights than you people do down in USA-land too.  

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Originally Posted by TheUnfetteredMind 

We need a group to go project a giant middle finger onto the Greenpeace headquarters.

Haven't you heard?  Giving the middle finger is considered funny and cool by the kids today.  Shit Tacos or some such.  

Greenpeace has supporters?  Now that's news!

I guess you can find any idiot to sign a petition - apparently 215,000 of them.

I think I will be making a donation to the American Coal Council in the name of Greenpeace.   

Not a one of them tweeting from an iPhone I take it? 

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Originally Posted by libertyforall 

Oh, the green nazis are at it again.  It is really not about health or the environment, it is about CONTROL.  That is the agenda.  JUST SAY NO TO CARBON CREDITS AND AL GORE'S GLOBAL WARMING FARCE!!! etc etc

 

(Don't want to post the rest of his diatribe).

Groan.... who let him out?

I hope Apple doesn't listen to Greenpeace. And dont give to Greenpeace.

To mix metaphors:  Greenpeace has jumped the shark.

Greenpeace wants us to use unicorns and happiness to power the world.

If they hadn't led the absurd war on nuclear energy, the whole country might be completely carbon neutral today. Greenpeace has been one of the primary drivers forcing power companies to use coal and oil. And now they protest the innocent customers?

Greenpeace sometimes makes me want to burn styrofoam.

I hope the projectors they use were hand-cranked. Don't want to add to humanity's footprint. 

Solutions are simple. Most operations classify fundraising under education because they "acquaint the citizen with their recent efforts to save the planet". The IRS should declare that any attempts at solicitations of funds by a non-profit organization that are masked under the education classification, be correctly categorized as fundraising, since more than 50% of funds received are used for more fundraising, they must show their contacts and supporters the real breakdown of expenditures. That would stop most of this nonsense in its tracks.

That being said, the heightened shrillness of their histrionics is heartening. The fact that they feel it necessary to pour so much effort into this means they are not seeing the traction they want among their supporters. Even if a couple hundred thousand tweeters support them - tweeting is cheap/free. It is meaningless and they know it. All of this is geared to generate media attention, but the general public is becoming more and more disillusioned with MSM and more skeptical about stuff like this. So they are trying to climb a slippery slope and losing ground in spite of increased effort.

"Awareness", a term that became bastardized by activists (of all stripes incidentally) to justify public antics, is like any other stimulus. Too much and it loses its effectiveness. Good competent propagandists understand this and vary the attack to keep the message fresh and the stimulus viable. It is painfully evident that GP simply has no one competent to manage their strategies and thus their message becomes anemic and ineffective - bordering on annoying.

But when your message, your modis and your effectiveness are all compromised you do desperate things.

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Originally Posted by jragosta 


See above. There is a good way to tie into Apple's mindshare and a bad way. All Greenpeace is doing is sending the following messages to the world:
1. Don't bother spending money on being green, because no matter how much you do, it will never be enough for us and we'll attack you.
2. Don't worry about how much you spend or how green you are because we're going to make up numbers and present them as if they're factual. So there's no point in having good numbers since we prefer fiction.
That is NOT going to help the environmental movement over the long run.

You are the one seriously misguided here. This is all about drawing attention to the enormous amount of energy and (dirty fuel) used to run data centres. Apple is a high visibility target and by that measure is a legitimate target. I doubt Apple will hurt much from this and if the action is 'misguided' it may even work better in that the issue will get more attention, and Apple will come out looking good. The fact is that most companies are not going to go the extra mile in the name of energy efficiency and alternative fuels - it takes an outside body. People always get hot under the collar when it comes to Greenpeace and I can see why. But I can also see what Greenpeace are trying to achieve. Everyone here claim GP is just after money and yet they claim GP is shooting themselves in the foot with their misguided campaigns... 

I don't really have a problem with GP. A pain in the ass, maybe, but we all know this is an area where 'the market' isn't going to regulate itself and most governments are just spineless.

So IF Apple HAD covered say 10 acres of land in NC with Solar Panels and ran the ENTIRE building from solar energy - with another acre or so of batteries to get through times when it is cloudy or, dunno if the folks at Greenpeace are aware of this, something called NIGHT TIME - then GP would be complaining about the despoiling of so many acres of untouched land and the hazardous working conditions and political strife occurring wherever it is that an acres of batteries are produced. 

Also - for the folks on this an other similar foams - please, for the love of (whatever it is you love), please, STOP trying to dissuade the folks at Greenpeace with FACTS - they have NO PLACE in such an important process.

These Green maniacs make me want to vomit.

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Originally Posted by peter02l 


Here's a list:
Voters in North Carolina
The military-industrial complex
Oil companies
Real estate developers.
City councils
Their political representatives
US consumers
Pet owners
I am sure I have missed a few thousand.

Cowards.

The right target is to go to china and project their images onto the walls of the forbidden city.   That might be worthy of a little respect and they could get in a good ten to twenty years of meditation, while living an aesthetic life style with no worries about using too much electricity or plumbing!!

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Originally Posted by jragosta 


Something like 1/3 of the energy for NC is solar and much of the rest is biogas.

One minor correction:

Actually none of the power for the Maiden NC facility is currently solar or biogas. They are planning it. The most optimistic report I've read states that as early as June 2012 the first of the planned 24 Bloom fuel cells might be switched on. 

I don't think Apple Inc needs you to defend it from Greenpeace. I'm not saying I agree with their tactics all of the time and yes they can be extreme but I am grateful there is a Greenpeace in the world to help bring attention to stuff the common person just won't think about. Apple is a giant company and the policies they make and the paths they follow make an impact in the world. Protesting and making yourself heard is an American right and tradition that I hope for all our sakes never goes away. If it did we would be living in North Korea. 

Maybe Greenpeace can disclose how much CO2 was emitted from using that high powered projector of theirs. 

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Originally Posted by mstone 

One minor correction:

 

Actually none of the power for the Maiden NC facility is currently solar or biogas. They are planning it. The most optimistic report I've read states that as early as June 2012 the first of the planned 24 Bloom fuel cells might be switched on. 

May be true, but a few months or even a year of operations is a rounding error given the likely life of the facility during which energy is used.

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Originally Posted by applecider 

Cowards.

The right target is to go to china and project their images onto the walls of the forbidden city.   That might be worthy of a little respect and they could get in a good ten to twenty years of meditation, while living an aesthetic life style with no worries about using too much electricity or plumbing!!

Some of them do go to the arctic and risk life and limb to put themselves between whales and Japanese whalers. No organization is perfect but I doubt any of the people on here bad mouthing them have done anything even remotely courageous. 

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Originally Posted by mstone 

Some of them do go to the arctic and risk life and limb to put themselves between whales and Japanese whalers. No organization is perfect but I doubt any of the people on here bad mouthing them have done anything even remotely courageous. 

Lots of dumb people do of courageous things. Lots do courageous things for dumb reasons.

The fact that an act itself is "courageous" is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by anantksundaram 

Lots of dumb people do of courageous things. Lots do courageous things for dumb reasons.

 

The fact that an act itself is "courageous" is meaningless.

I'm glad I didn't have a philosophy major for a partner in 'Nam.

My only problem with GP in this regard is that they are giving an advantage to Google/Android and all of the other Apple competitors. The general public is given the impression that this is an Apple problem, and by going to another manufacturer's device they are striking a blow for environmental responsibility. Apple has a long record of trying to do the right thing (remember the switch from white to brown packaging boxes way back when?), and to hold them up as a bad example is short-sighted. 

Makes me wonder if GP is being bankrolled or has been infiltrated by the likes of Google or Samsung.

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Originally Posted by mstone 

I'm glad I didn't have a philosophy major for a partner in 'Nam.

You -- and your partners -- had no choice but to carry out orders.

I am actually surprised that you think that the (often sophomoric) stuff that GP does falls into the same territory. I would not -- and did not -- put what you did in 'Nam (or what I may or may not have done if I was your partner or if I had volunteered v. drafted, etc.) remotely in the same league as what some of the GP lemmings do.

If you want to, go ahead, by all means!

They are wasting perfectly good energy using a projector for this.  They should protest themselves.

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Originally Posted by JollyPaul 

I would pay more attention to Greenpeace's shenanigans if it involved lots of hot naked women.

Women typically own more clothes than men (or Apple).  More clothes takes more work to earn the money to buy; more workers and raw materials to manufacture; more energy for manufacture.....

I see the logic but I'll only support this green initiative if I get to pick the women.

I realize that my environmental position is not very popular among the elite and educated in the USA. I have no use for GreenPeace. Like most [add the save this or that theme name] organizations, they are more concerned with their project and funding succeeding. The FACTs are that the Greenpeace of today isn't as concerned about cleaning up the environment in any effective way, or cleaning up anything dirty. They only want to exist and have a mouthpiece platform. It's a power (pun intended) play for today's GreenPeace, and many others like them.

If GreenPeace or others like them, had any real solutions that are effective and workable in a human context, I would be a member. But these organization have no real solutions. Like a metaphor that someone used above, slightly modified, it's GreenPeace as the fly on the elephant's back. GreenPeace today cries fowl dirty air but picks on one of the most environmental friendly companies [Apple] on the planet. If Apple became 100% renewable energy, the world's air would not be clean in China or India, and the dirty air will not stay within their borders. If GreenPeace had a workable solution that everyone can agree will work, I would sign up as a GreenPeace member.

I'm sure GreenPeace won't offer any real solutions, so I'm safe from having to worry about the planet's atmosphere, since we all will die from some sort of carcinogen pollutant. I am not willing to be part of a unilateral effort to save the earth. Wake me when the rest of the developing world economies get on board to truly save the environment. 

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Originally Posted by ChristophB 
Women typically own more clothes than men (or Apple).  More clothes takes more work to earn the money to buy; more workers and raw materials to manufacture; more energy for manufacture.....

 

I see the logic but I'll only support this green initiative if I get to pick the women.

I wonder if "Get naked, the survival of the planet depends on it!" has ever worked. 

"Worked as a pick-up line, you mean?"

No, just worked.