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Mac-bound Retina displays will cost Apple a $92 premium from suppliers

post #1 of 52
Thread Starter 
LCD screens capable of becoming Retina displays for Apple's next-generation Macs are currently available in the supply chain, but they come at a premium as high as $92 over regular screens.

DisplaySearch Senior Analyst Richard Shim told CNet that super-high-resolution 13.3-inch and 15.4-inch screens are already available from LCD suppliers. But a Retina-quality screen for Apple's 15-inch MacBook Pro would cost $160 from suppliers, as opposed to $68 for current, standard-resolution screens.

Similarly, with a 13.3-inch display, a Retina-caliber screen is $134, while the LCD panels Apple currently uses are estimated to cost $69.

If Apple does in fact add Retina displays to its future Macs, as is expected, it's unknown whether the cost of these high-resolution screens would be passed on to the consumer. Apple upgraded its iPhone, iPod touch and iPad product lineups to Retina displays without increasing the price.

The screens DisplaySearch says are available that would be ideal for Apple's next-generation MacBook Pros are a 15.4-inch panel with a resolution of 2,880 by 1,800 pixels, or 220 pixels per inch, and a 13.3-inch screen with a resolution of 2,560 by 1,600 pixels, or 227 pixels per inch. Each would add at least 100 pixels per inch to their respective MacBook Pro models.

WWDC 2012


Numerous reports have indicated Apple will introduce new, thinner MacBook Pros at its annual Worldwide Developers Conference in June. Those new professional notebooks are expected to include Retina display-like screens that will be driven by Intel's latest-generation Ivy Bridge processors.

The new MacBook Pros are expected to follow in the footsteps of Apple's popular MacBook Air lineup by ditching built-in optical drives and adding flash memory for faster performance and greater reliability.

It has also been reported that Apple will update its all-in-one desktop line of iMacs at WWDC when it kicks off June 11. The new iMacs are also expected to have high-resolution Retina displays, but potential screens for the desktop were not highlighted by DisplaySearch.

In addition, DisplaySearch did not specifically identify any potential Retina display LCDs for a 17-inch MacBook Pro. One prediction published in April suggested Apple would discontinue its 17-inch MacBook Pro, leaving only the 13- and 15-inch models.
post #2 of 52

Finally, some supply rumors. This should help the skeptics who say no Retina line until 2013 for Macs. I may be a dupe, but at this point I can't imagine there not being Retina displays in all the new MacBooks.

post #3 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

Finally, some supply rumors. This should help the skeptics who say no Retina line until 2013 for Macs. I may be a dupe, but at this point I can't imagine there not being Retina displays in all the new MacBooks.

Not all, just as not all iPads have Retina displays.

post #4 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsimpsen View Post

Not all, just as not all iPads have Retina displays.

 

 I said all new MacBooks. All new iPads are Retina.

post #5 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post
This should help the skeptics who say no Retina line until 2013 for Macs. I may be a dupe, but at this point I can't imagine there not being Retina displays in all the new MacBooks.

 

I still don't believe it. I want leaked panel images before I'll consider it. Do people really think that 11" 2732x1536 and 13" 2880x1800 displays would be able to stay under our radar for this long, particularly if the machines using them are being released in just three weeks, much less 15" 2880x1800 displays. 

Originally Posted by helia

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Originally Posted by helia

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post #6 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

Finally, some supply rumors. This should help the skeptics who say no Retina line until 2013 for Macs. I may be a dupe, but at this point I can't imagine there not being Retina displays in all the new MacBooks.

 

I'm wondering more about battery life and heat.  If the cost difference really is that low, and all else being equal, I can't see leaving Retina out either.

post #7 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I still don't believe it. I want leaked panel images before I'll consider it. Do people really think that 11" 2732x1536 and 13" 2880x1800 displays would be able to stay under our radar for this long, particularly if the machines using them are being released in just three weeks, much less 15" 2880x1800 displays. 

Is WWDC only three weeks away now? I hadn't even realized! That sends shivers down my spine. Of course, it could just be that the air conditioning is over-acting, but I like to believe it's anticipation.

post #8 of 52

As ever, Apple will buy in bulk and drive down the price.

post #9 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

Finally, some supply rumors. This should help the skeptics who say no Retina line until 2013 for Macs. I may be a dupe, but at this point I can't imagine there not being Retina displays in all the new MacBooks.

 

So this rumor would neatly dovetail into the notion of a 4K "Retina-style" Apple TV, yes?

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post #10 of 52

Retinas seem more likely to be an extra-cost option, because hi-res displays have been that way for years and (I would imagine) producing retina displays in high volume may be difficult. By making retinas optional, demand will be reduced such that supply can maintain pace, and Apple will still reap the reward of being first to market.

 

btw: the current iPad 2 has an old name but is new, as it contains an updated A5 processor.

post #11 of 52

Can you imagine Dell or HP trying to keep up with this move from Apple?   This will create a 3-4 year advantage to Apple.  It's a home run   

Windows survivor - after a long, epic and painful struggle. Very long AAPL

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post #12 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

So this rumor would neatly dovetail into the notion of a 4K "Retina-style" Apple TV, yes?

 

No, 1080p HD TVs are already Retina, there would be no point in a 4k Apple TV other than stat inflation which Apple is not in the habit of doing. 4K ACDs, perhaps, TVs, no way.

post #13 of 52

.......

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post #14 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

As ever, Apple will buy in bulk and drive down the price.

Thanks for the first correct response.

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post #15 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

No, 1080p HD TVs are already Retina, there would be no point in a 4k Apple TV other than stat inflation which Apple is not in the habit of doing. 4K ACDs, perhaps, TVs, no way.

"1080p HD TVs are already Retina?"  Wouldn't that depend on the size of the HD TV?

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post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"1080p HD TVs are already Retina?"  Wouldn't that depend on the size of the HD TV?

 

Pick a size and we'll check. I'll bet each one turns out to be Retina.

post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post
btw: the current iPad 2 has an old name but is new, as it contains an updated A5 processor.

 

Only some.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

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post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"1080p HD TVs are already Retina?"  Wouldn't that depend on the size of the HD TV?

And the viewing distance, as well.
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post #19 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 Do people really think that 11" 2732x1536 and 13" 2880x1800 displays would be able to stay under our radar for this long, particularly if the machines using them are being released in just three weeks... 

 

Not to nitpick, but "announced" or "introduced"...

versus "released"?

Not quite the same thing for Apple, sometimes by 6-8 weeks, isn't it?

Or am I remembering iPad wrong?

post #20 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post
Not to nitpick, but "announced" or "introduced"...

versus "released"?

Not quite the same thing for Apple, sometimes by 6-8 weeks, isn't it?

Or am I remembering iPad wrong?

 

iPad, sure. When they weren't already selling a product in that field. Apple will not announce a new computer unless you can buy it that day.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #21 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


And the viewing distance, as well.

 

Yes the viewing distance matters, but just because you can hold your iPad two inches from your face doesn't mean it isn't Retina. There are standard viewing distances that are tabulated on the basis of normal 20/20 vision. Sure that might not be "Retina" to you, but we are talking about a standardized definition and formula that is based on scientific research in optics.

post #22 of 52

Bring on the higher res. I saw an 80" Sharp at Costco. If we want wall screens without pixels the size of legos, we have to keep pushing the res.

post #23 of 52

I hope there's an option on Retinal "improvements."   I'm worried about the greater demand on the battery and on graphics processors, such that the next models with better CPUs and GPUs will have lower frame rates on graphics heavy games.  To say nothing of lower or no better battery life.

post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post

Can you imagine Dell or HP trying to keep up with this move from Apple?   This will create a 3-4 year advantage to Apple.  It's a home run   

True.. but HP and Dell's volume sellers are $500-600 laptops. Even sales of their own Ultrabooks pale in comparison to sales of their regular ol' laptops.

I'm sure Apple's "Retina" laptops will look amazing... but $1,200 for a 13" and $1,800 for a 15" is still a premium price for a laptop.

That's not really a market HP and Dell goes after anyway.
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Only some.

Yes, and some could be all. Those iPad 2s that lack the updated A5 might just be old ones still in the supply chain. All of the new iPad 2s may have the updated A5.

post #26 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

Pick a size and we'll check. I'll bet each one turns out to be Retina.

 

I hope people realize that the descriptor "Retina" is only an Apple marketing term (besides the obvious biology description) and not some kind of catch-all term to describe image resolution. For the love of ****, please learn the difference.

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post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

 

I hope people realize that the descriptor "Retina" is only an Apple marketing term (besides the obvious biology description) and not some kind of catch-all term to describe image resolution. For the love of ****, please learn the difference.

 

I hope people realize that the descriptor "802.11n" is only an IEEE marketing term and not some kind of catch-all term to describe frequency bands. For the love of ****, please learn the difference.

post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

I hope people realize that the descriptor "802.11n" is only an IEEE marketing term and not some kind of catch-all term to describe frequency bands. For the love of ****, please learn the difference.

 

The difference here being that I didn't use 802.11n in a sentence.

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post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

As ever, Apple will buy in bulk and drive down the price.

Indeed. 

 

I wonder if that $3.7 billion (or whatever it was) "unique opportunity" investment that Tim Cook mentioned a while back might have something to do with retina displays for both iDevices and Macs. But either way, Apple will almost certainly not be paying as high a price as everyone else. 

post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Retinas seem more likely to be an extra-cost option, because hi-res displays have been that way for years and (I would imagine) producing retina displays in high volume may be difficult. By making retinas optional, demand will be reduced such that supply can maintain pace, and Apple will still reap the reward of being first to market.

 

btw: the current iPad 2 has an old name but is new, as it contains an updated A5 processor.

 

The problem w/that is that if the better screens are a BTO option, Apple won't need to buy them in a quantity high enough to drive them down in price as far as they would like.  IMO, if Apple is going to dive into these high res laptop displays, it will be w/both feet or not at all. 

 

Isn't the updated A5 just a different nm size?  It's still an A5, they didn't goose it up at all, it's just made smaller and more power efficient.

post #31 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 I said all new MacBooks. All new iPads are Retina.

Depends on what you mean by new. The new model? iPad 2 will still be sold new until the next update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

True.. but HP and Dell's volume sellers are $500-600 laptops. Even sales of their own Ultrabooks pale in comparison to sales of their regular ol' laptops.
I'm sure Apple's "Retina" laptops will look amazing... but $1,200 for a 13" and $1,800 for a 15" is still a premium price for a laptop.
That's not really a market HP and Dell goes after anyway.

While it's not necessarily their main focus, HP most certainly goes after that market. It took less than half a minute to find nine models on HP's site that start in that price range, three in those size categories, and each have options that can push the price up. That's the home and home office division. I found 62 Dells in that price and size range as well.

It's a lot more money than the competition, but there are a lot of people that think it's worth it. I've not found a lot of sub-$1k notebook to be that well built. Most of them I've seen have somewhat dodgy screens, creaky chassis or otherwise hokey build.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/16/12 at 2:30pm
post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

I hope people realize that the descriptor "802.11n" is only an IEEE marketing term and not some kind of catch-all term to describe frequency bands. For the love of ****, please learn the difference.

 

Sorry, but your analogy, sarcastic or not, is a miss and is consequently misleading.

post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

Yes the viewing distance matters, but just because you can hold your iPad two inches from your face doesn't mean it isn't Retina. There are standard viewing distances that are tabulated on the basis of normal 20/20 vision. Sure that might not be "Retina" to you, but we are talking about a standardized definition and formula that is based on scientific research in optics.

True, but for TVs, the range is pretty wide - a factor of 2 or 3, IIRC. It could be 'retina' at the longer distance, but not the shorter one.
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post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

Pick a size and we'll check. I'll bet each one turns out to be Retina.

At what distance? ;)

 

I think it's a bad comparison but it's also a interesting topic.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_pitch

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_density

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post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

While it's not necessarily their main focus, HP most certainly goes after that market. It took less than half a minute to find nine models on HP's site that start in that price range, three in those size categories, and each have options that can push the price up. That's the home and home office division. I found 62 Dells in that price and size range as well.

It's a lot more money than the competition, but there are a lot of people that think it's worth it. I've not found a lot of sub-$1k notebook to be that well built. Most of them I've seen have somewhat dodgy screens, creaky chassis or otherwise hokey build.

Oh I know you can get an HP or Dell laptop in the $1200-1800 range.

My point was... if you want a 15" laptop from Apple.... it starts at $1800.

Other 15" laptops start at 1/3 of that price.

I do think Mac laptops are a good value for the money... when you consider OSX, iLife, build quality and all that jazz. I recommend Macs to people whenever I can (and if they can afford them)

But I was saying that the volume sellers for HP and Dell are much cheaper. I imagine their most popular models are somewhere around $600.
post #36 of 52

I think it's fairly safe to say Apple will keep the prices firm as always, but even if they won't I'd gladly pay $92 more for an IPS super high resolution laptop display. Whether you like Windows or OSX that's a killer hardware feature, and one that it will take a long time for others to match.

 

And to me and no doubt many others, this would be an even bigger deal than the iPad or iPhone retina displays, for more serious graphic work. 

post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

iPad, sure. When they weren't already selling a product in that field. Apple will not announce a new computer unless you can buy it that day.

Lol, okay, I guess I am nitpicking, then, but the iPhone 4s was announced 10/4/11, but not available in the US till 10/14/11.

 

That isn't 6-8 weeks, to be sure, and it isn't, in the popular conception, a 'computer'...

 

but I'm pretty sure its a field they had products in already ;-)

post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post
…but the iPhone 4s was announced 10/4/11, but not available in the US till 10/14/11.

 

Yes, but they allowed preorders. If they're planning to do that for the MacBook revision, that's fine, but I don't recall them ever doing preorders for a computer.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

That's not really a market HP and Dell goes after anyway.

 

They are trying to push upwards with some recent models, but Apple is already established as a premium brand with higher prices. They can alternate between giving up some margin to push expensive new tech at the same price, and then reap larger profits when the new tech becomes mainstream. It is a wicked tick tock that is hard to compete with starting from a discount brand position.

 

I get the feeling that without a company pushing these advances over the complaints of bean counters, we would stagnate at 1920x1080 for another decade.

post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98 View Post

 

Yes the viewing distance matters, but just because you can hold your iPad two inches from your face doesn't mean it isn't Retina. There are standard viewing distances that are tabulated on the basis of normal 20/20 vision. ...

It depends on viewing distance, but it has little to do with normal 20/20 vision or the vision of any other individual. The criteria is for two adjacent points of light to be indistinguishable from a single source. The criteria is that the two light sources are separated by 1 minute of arc or less. This is 1/60 of 1°. Someone with a vision defect may see two sources blur into one for separations greater than this. However, it is an immutable law of physics that one cannot resolve sources with smaller separations no matter how good his vision is. Pick a viewing distance--let's say 6 feet or 72 inches. The pixel separation for a retina display is

 

d = (pi/180)(1/60)(72) = 2.0944E-2 inches

 

The pixel density is

 

1/d = 47.75 dpi

 

A standard 1080p HDTV with 46 in. diagonal measure display has this pixel density. 

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