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Class-action suit targets Apple for iCloud downtime - Page 3

post #81 of 123

Lawyers :(   The US legal system is a friggin joke.  Unfortunately, the joke is on us.

post #82 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Really?

http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/documents.html

Every document, every edit, everywhere.

Apps make it possible to create amazing presentations, write reports, and more right on your iOS device. You don’t have to manage your documents in a complicated file system or remember to save your work. Your documents are just there, stored in your apps, and ready whenever you need them. And now your apps can store that information in iCloud. Which means you can access your documents — with your latest updates — on whichever device you happen to be using at the time. It all happens automatically, without any effort from you.



http://www.apple.com/icloud/what-is.html


whatis_title.png



iCloud stores your music, photos, documents, and more and wirelessly pushes them to all your devices. Automatic, effortless, and seamless — it just works.



 



OK. Which statement is false? I don't see anything there that says that the servers will never go down. I also don't see anything that says that there will never be a problem. "It just works" is vague enough as to be unenforceable.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #83 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


OK. Which statement is false? I don't see anything there that says that the servers will never go down. I also don't see anything that says that there will never be a problem. "It just works" is vague enough as to be unenforceable.

I never said "It just works" was false, the other poster said it never existed.

 

Clearly the "every document" statement is not true.

post #84 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post
I wouldn't call that supported list "any" document....

 

Them's the breaks. That's how the system works. Fine print is legal. Illegalize fine print (PLEASE) if you want that to be litigable.

 

Quote:
I see you didn't have a clever answer for the "it just works" link I posted which you claimed wasn't true.

 

No, I'd just already covered that it isn't a marketing term.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #85 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave2012 View Post

I think Apple is creating problems for itself by making advertising claims like:

"Every document, every edit, everywhere"

and

"It just works"

Neither of which are true.
 

I agree with you but the biggest mistake Apple is making is thinking they can sue everyone for everything. Good luck with that. Apple alone is a cash-rich powerhouse but taking on so many heavyhitters will only bring them down. Apple copied many other companies and so they reap what they sow now.

post #86 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Them's the breaks. That's how the system works. Fine print is legal. Illegalize fine print (PLEASE) if you want that to be litigable.

 

 

No, I'd just already covered that it isn't a marketing term.

If that's all you can come back with then all I can say is LOL.

post #87 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidUser View Post

Never.

See, denial!!!  :)

post #88 of 123

OK jragosta - you're right!

 

Quote:

"It just works" is vague enough as to be unenforceable.

 

 

'It just works' could mean it works - but only just! lol.gif
 

post #89 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post
If that's all you can come back with then all I can say is LOL.

 

Prove me wrong, then, boyo! 

 

SUE.

 

See how far you get, since you're so confident you're right.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #90 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Prove me wrong, then, boyo! 

 

SUE.

 

See how far you get, since you're so confident you're right.

Keep these comments coming, at least they are good for a laugh!

post #91 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Keep these comments coming, at least they are good for a laugh!

So he’s wrong, you’re right, but you won’t sue, because you don’t want all that money right? That’s a laugh, a real one.

Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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Which of us is the fisherman and which the trout?

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post #92 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

So he’s wrong, you’re right, but you won’t sue, because you don’t want all that money right? That’s a laugh, a real one.

lol why would I sue? Just because of the ramblings of some keyboard warrior on the internet saying I should because they have no argument?


Edited by fredaroony - 5/19/12 at 1:23pm
post #93 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post
lol why would I sue? Just because of the ramblings of some keyboard warrior on the internet saying I should because they have no argument?

 

I'm confused now.

 

You claim it's advertising. You claim Apple has lied in this advertising. This lie would have harmed you had you purchased the machine based on that saying. And then you dismiss the idea of a lawsuit, despite these conditions being all that is necessary for one (and despite people having successfully sued other companies for far less).

 

Do you not think you have a case? It's no secret you hate Apple; why would you deny yourself the chance to show them how terrible they are, save if you didn't have a case?

 

And if you don't have a case, the question arises of why you don't believe you have a case. Which brings us back to what I've said.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #94 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

I'm confused now.

 

You claim it's advertising. You claim Apple has lied in this advertising. This lie would have harmed you had you purchased the machine based on that saying. And then you dismiss the idea of a lawsuit, despite these conditions being all that is necessary for one (and despite people having successfully sued other companies for far less).

 

Do you not think you have a case? It's no secret you hate Apple; why would you deny yourself the chance to show them how terrible they are, save if you didn't have a case?

Doesn't matter to me at all as I don't even use iCloud. I was simply pointing out that you were wrong, which of course is very typical of many of your posts.

 

All your points on this subject have been wrong so far so keep going if you want champ.

post #95 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post
Doesn't matter to me at all as I don't even use iCloud.

 

Ah, I see. So you don't care at all, therefore it doesn't matter at all, therefore your argument is moot, as you've no interest in being correct. You, by virtue of your position alone, are content with presenting your side and declaring yourself victor automatically.

 

Interesting way of living. Can't imagine it works very often. lol.gif

 

Quote:
I was simply pointing out that you were wrong…

 

Unfortunately, that's left to be seen and not for you to say. If you wish to prove me wrong, sue and win. Or at the very least get them to take down said wording. If there's another method for proving me wrong, I'm all ears.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #96 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Ah, I see. So you don't care at all, therefore it doesn't matter at all, therefore your argument is moot, as you've no interest in being correct. You, by virtue of your position alone, are content with presenting your side and declaring yourself victor automatically.

 

Interesting way of living. Can't imagine it works very often. lol.gif

 

 

Unfortunately, that's left to be seen and not for you to say. If you wish to prove me wrong, sue and win. Or at the very least get them to take down said wording. If there's another method for proving me wrong, I'm all ears.

Just as I thought...no valid argument, just white noise. Way to go buddy! lol.giflol.giflol.giflol.giflol.gif

 

Argghh! I just realised you cannot block Mods in this forum!

post #97 of 123
As a long time PAYING MobileMe and dotMac user (family account), who migrated my family and myself to all Apple products over the years (computers, iPads, iPhones), expecting things like calendar and address book syncing to work properly, holding out with hope that things will grow to work properly, hoping that Apple would finally get it right with iCloud... It's been a huge disappointment.

It's not unreasonable, that when someone is buying into a service, they shouldn't have to spend hours or days manually deleting duplicate entries due to a bad sync for reasons beyond their control.

My dad, with his dotMac email address, shouldn't have to upgrade from his old non-iOS5 iPod touch in order to be able to continue to access his email. That I have to buy him a new iOS5 iPod Touch or iPhone so he can continue to access his dotMac email account via iCloud is a bunch of BS. When before has email been OS-dependent?

When a company markets their services as the greatest thing in the world, that you gotta have it, that "it just works" (which used to be the case for Apple products), and that it's an integral part of the apps and devices and the overall product that is being sold to the consumer, they better make sure it works. The user agreement is meaningless; a company could use it as an excuse for providing a pathetic level of service but they're then screwing the customer and eroding their reputation.

Apple has too much money and technical skill NOT to be able to get things right, this isn't rocket science.

And to those who say don't rely on a free service, what else is there in for Mac/iPhone/etc calendar and address book syncing? Should millions of people start running Lion server at home with their own Cal and address sync services? That would be idiotic, we don't need millions or billions of home server admins. Apple should just get their iCloud crap together, make it work flawlessly like it should, or stop marketing it as an asset of their hardware and their glorious Apple lifestyle.

The lawsuit is awesome, if it helps drive improved quality of data services it'll help drive the evolution of future products and services as well.
post #98 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene9000 View Post


And to those who say don't rely on a free service, what else is there in for Mac/iPhone/etc calendar and address book syncing? 

I use Gmail, Google Apps actually, and it works perfectly across all devices. You just have to set it up as an Exchange account.

post #99 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene9000 View Post
It's not unreasonable, that when someone is buying into a service, they shouldn't have to spend hours or days manually deleting duplicate entries due to a bad sync for reasons beyond their control.
My dad, with his dotMac email address, shouldn't have to upgrade from his old non-iOS5 iPod touch in order to be able to continue to access his email. That I have to buy him a new iOS5 iPod Touch or iPhone so he can continue to access his dotMac email account via iCloud is a bunch of BS. When before has email been OS-dependent?

 

So input it manually.

 

I can get my iCloud mail on iPhone OS 3.1.3. Should work for Snow Leopard and anything else, too.

 

Quote:
The lawsuit is awesome, if it helps drive improved quality of data services it'll help drive the evolution of future products and services as well.

 

The lawsuit does little to address what you've said, beyond the few transition errors.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #100 of 123

Where's the place to sign up as a class who's tired of bogus class action lawsuits clogging our court system and is therefore banding together to take the serial offenders out?

 

Could be a fun kickstarter project.  Hmm......

post #101 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habanero View Post
 No one would go through the hassle and expense of hiring lawyers and filing if it was simply 

 

That's the problem - there's no expense, or at least not enough of one to prevent completely BS lawsuits like this one.  

 

It's a fishing expedition, pure and simple.

 

 

On another note, the new editor sucks.  It interferes with the built in spelling checker of my browser and is slower.  Sigh... progress....

post #102 of 123

As an example .. I have two  .. not that initially wanted two but am glad I do ...

 

I initially opened an account with itunes .. i was using my yahoo email address at the time.  So there is 1 account.

 

I eventually started using .mac email account.  There is the second.  There was no way of combining them.

 

The benefit (I feel) is that I can (and have) changed the name of my itunes account.  I now have a somewhat random name for my itunes account.  I do not like using an email address as an ID.  Call me paranoid, but hackers are more likely to get an email list than a random name.  My original itunes account (with yahoo email address) was hacked a couple of years ago.  I considered it my fault for the incredibly easy password I had on it which had not changed since iTunes launched.  Since then, I was able to change the iTunes ID from my yahoo email to a different random name.  Of course, the password is considerably more cryptic as well.

 

g

post #103 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

On another note, the new editor sucks.  It interferes with the built in spelling checker of my browser and is slower.  Sigh... progress....

You'll get no argument from me. It's needlessly difficult and clumsy to use, and with no apparent justification.

I think SolipsismX has instructions in his signature on how to switch to a BBEdit style post editor.
Edited by JeffDM - 5/20/12 at 6:16am
post #104 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

I use Gmail, Google Apps actually, and it works perfectly across all devices. You just have to set it up as an Exchange account.

 

Yes (thanks), and I should have clarified because what I was getting at is that Apple (whether it was with dotMac, MobileMe and now iCloud) markets "automatic" and "effortless" syncing across "all your devices" in order to sell their devices and services (in the case of dotMac and MobileMe), so it should work as advertised.  And it's more than just email and address/calendar syncing, it's an identity and life practices method that I'd say most people don't want to be jumping around between different email accounts and services.  If people leave dotMac/MobileMe/iCloud for Google, that's a loss for Apple and a gain for Google and Android.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So input it manually.

 

I can get my iCloud mail on iPhone OS 3.1.3. Should work for Snow Leopard and anything else, too.

 

The lawsuit does little to address what you've said, beyond the few transition errors.

 

I should have clarified, the address book and calendar won't sync, so the old man will be getting a new iPhone (chi-ching for Apple - http://www.apple.com/icloud/).  And is there anything so significant about iCloud that Apple can't have it run on older OS's, or is it an excuse to push folks with money just to upgrade to an OS5-compatible device? 

 

And as far as lawsuits against Apple, I'm glad to see them, considering the extent that they sue others, falsely market their products and services, and fail to really listen to their customers.  When I spend $2000+ on a MacBook Pro, $900 on an iPad, $900+ on an iPhone (because I get them unlocked), and use to pay $150/year for MobileMe Family Pack, I expect my mac.com email, address book and calendar to work FLAWLESSLY, period, or "it just works" is just a bunch of BS.  People should have these expectations of the products and services they are purchasing, especially when its marketed as "automatic" and "effortless".

post #105 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene9000 View Post
I should have clarified, the address book and calendar won't sync, so the old man will be getting a new iPhone (chi-ching for Apple - http://www.apple.com/icloud/).  

 

Again, just do it manually.

 

Quote:
…considering the extent that they sue others… 

 

Yeah, that's a completely wretched reason for your belief.

 

Quote:
…falsely market their products and services…

 

Once again, that's left to be seen. I hardly think it's the case.

 

Quote:

…and fail to really listen to their customers.

 

In what regard?

 

Quote:

When I spend $2000+ on a MacBook Pro, $900 on an iPad, $900+ on an iPhone (because I get them unlocked), and use to pay $150/year for MobileMe Family Pack, I expect my mac.com email, address book and calendar to work FLAWLESSLY, period, or "it just works" is just a bunch of BS.

 

Nothing works flawlessly. Your expectations are the legal definition of unreasonable.

 

Quote:

People should have these expectations of the products and services they are purchasing, especially when its marketed as "automatic" and "effortless".

 

But those are completely different ideas than "100% uptime".

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #106 of 123

Everyone that has ever tried to use the full potential of iCloud, should have seen by now that it doesn't work as advertised.

 

In the past few years Apple has been very good at advertising things to "Just work" and then covering it up really well when they don't.

 

For example, because I have changed iTunes Store countries in the past, the apps I downloaded from the previous country cannot be restored from iCloud Backup and cannot be updated via iTunes.

 

You see - there isn't really a SLA obligating Apple to do a good job - and that is why I am stuck with lame iTunes Support for 2 months now and the last statement I received was close to "that's the way it is, and it will stay this way for a while".

 

I've had almost every Apple product in my hands for the past 5 years and I see they are created to be loved.

This doesn't stop me to get my head out of my a*s and see that while adding some great new features and increasing revenue, Apple has been increasingly worse at taking care for their "Think Different" customers.

post #107 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkostov View Post

Everyone that has ever tried to use the full potential of iCloud, should have seen by now that it doesn't work as advertised.

Really? What specific advertisement are you referring to and what evidence is there that iCloud doesn't work the way the ad says?

A bit of whining from the regular Apple haters doesn't count as evidence, btw.
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post #108 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Really? What specific advertisement are you referring to and what evidence is there that iCloud doesn't work the way the ad says?

 

I'll grant them that until we get a true iDisk replacement, "every document" is misleading. I can't think of anything else offhand.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #109 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Really? What specific advertisement are you referring to and what evidence is there that iCloud doesn't work the way the ad says?
A bit of whining from the regular Apple haters doesn't count as evidence, btw.

I posted evidence earlier in this thread and it was actually Apple contradicating their own statements.

post #110 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'll grant them that until we get a true iDisk replacement, "every document" is misleading. I can't think of anything else offhand.

OK. That is correct. It is not possible to do it with 'every document'. But that's not what the law suit is about, so it's moot.

Furthermore, they still have the problem of proving damages when the service is free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

I posted evidence earlier in this thread and it was actually Apple contradicating their own statements.

See above. The one about 'every document' is not true. But that's not covered by the lawsuit. Please show us specifically what Apple promised in the context of this lawsuit and then failed to deliver. And be specific - "it just works" is not something that you're going to win a case on.
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post #111 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



See above. The one about 'every document' is not true. But that's not covered by the lawsuit. Please show us specifically what Apple promised in the context of this lawsuit and then failed to deliver. And be specific - "it just works" is not something that you're going to win a case on.

I wasn't saying it was in the law suit.

post #112 of 123

Oh these lawsuits, this is really getting out of hand. What online content provider doesn't have it's fair share of problems. I wish there was some sort of fine that could be given to these people who come up with these law suits. This goes for company's to with their ridiculous patent suits, tired of it. By the way I'm not one to complain about a free site but this forum isn't really intuitive, to much complexity and doesn't really work well with an iPad, kind of funny but it works better on my Playbook, you guys might want to think about redoing it.

 

Do people really use iCloud for mission critical data, I use it for backing up my user data but there are much better services out there for online storage.

post #113 of 123

Although not mentioned in this article, the biggest iCloud problem I see is Lion is required.

 

That's made even more grating by the fact iCloud works with Vista.

 

That's absurd. A web-based service should, in Apple-speak, "just work".

post #114 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by heenow View Post
Although not mentioned in this article, the biggest iCloud problem I see is Lion is required.


You can manually sync mail, contacts, and calendars in pre-Lion OS'.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #115 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Really? What specific advertisement are you referring to and what evidence is there that iCloud doesn't work the way the ad says?
A bit of whining from the regular Apple haters doesn't count as evidence, btw.

 

I don't need to address a specific ad - "It Just Works" is misleading enough - well - it DOESN'T "just work" at all.

 

There are multiple scenarios where neither iCloud backup, nor "seamless syncing" would work as expected.

This is not whining - I have already addressed multiple issues with support, filed in at least 8 bug reports but Apple finds it easier to ignore it.

 

This is not the place to debug the weird iCloud behavior. And I am not an Apple hater - just the opposite. But for an aggressive Apple "Lover" like you, I can say that when I open a call to Microsoft Support, I get developers on the phone within 8 HOURS. The "Very Good" (quoting Jobs) Apple Support failed to resolve my issues for 2 MONTHS!

 

Think about it - they say "we care" - and they probably do - but from a customer perspective like mine - I still cannot restore my iCloud backups - I don't care if they care - I want them to work towards getting iCloud to work - and not ignoring me.

post #116 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkostov View Post
There are multiple scenarios where neither iCloud backup, nor "seamless syncing" would work as expected.

This is not whining - I have already addressed multiple issues with support, filed in at least 8 bug reports but Apple finds it easier to ignore it.

 

The "Very Good" (quoting Jobs) Apple Support failed to resolve my issues for 2 MONTHS!

 

…I want them to work towards getting iCloud to work - and not ignoring me.

 

First, Apple isn't ignoring you.

 

Second, your problem has to do with legal issues beyond Apple's control. I'm sure they're trying to work these out alongside their inability to merge iTunes accounts, so when we see the latter, we should see the former.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #117 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

This is getting absurd.
So unless someone can guarantee that their product or service is available every second of every day, they get sued?
Ridiculous.

 

They're not getting sued for the product not being perfect, but because of supposedly deceptive advertising tactics.  

 

For instance, a quote from their product description:

 

 

Quote:
Every document, every edit, everywhere.

Apps make it possible to create amazing presentations, write reports, and more right on your iOS device. You don’t have to manage your documents in a complicated file system or remember to save your work. Your documents are just there, stored in your apps, and ready whenever you need them. And now your apps can store that information in iCloud. Which means you can access your documents — with your latest updates — on whichever device you happen to be using at the time. It all happens automatically, without any effort from you.

 

Apple does set themselves up for lawsuits because of the way they advertise.  Other companies aren't getting sued over similar things because they present the user with a more realistic view of how their service works, which, incidentally, isn't as 'magical' as how Apple presents things.  And I'm not sure about US law, but many countries do have laws against deception in advertising.  

post #118 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by heenow View Post

Although not mentioned in this article, the biggest iCloud problem I see is Lion is required.

 

That's made even more grating by the fact iCloud works with Vista.

 

That's absurd. A web-based service should, in Apple-speak, "just work".

 

It does.  It is a free service and Apple tells you under which circumstances it just works.  That it does not just work for some OS product that was superseded before iCloud was made available is not the least bit surprising to anyone, let alone you.  You are just being intentionally antagonistic.   Just because one end is on the web doesn't mean the local end knows how to properly interact with the remote servers.

.
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post #119 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Yes, and I'm waiting for his explanation on why he believes it doesn't.

And I suppose people will be suing over this next:


See your QWERTY in lights.



Anyone can try to make a notebook that’s thin and light. Success comes in doing it without cutting corners. That’s why MacBook Air features a full-size keyboard, not a condensed version of what you’re used to. When you type on the MacBook Air, it’s just as comfortable as typing on a desktop keyboard. And now the keyboard is backlit, so you can type comfortably even in low-light conditions. A built-in sensor detects changes in the ambient lighting and adjusts the keyboard and display brightness automatically, giving you the perfect illumination in any environment.



Still not a big fan of the chicklet style keyboard though, their okay just no my favorite. The two best mobile keyboards from Apple, for me anyway were from the Powerbook 100 and the Powerbook 2400. I still have both machines to. I recently fired up the 100 and man that thing is nice to type on, still a great wordprocessor to. Nowadays though I would have to give the Thinkpad's the edge for mobile keyboards. Their X2XX series and TXX series have wonderfull keyboards, best in the industry. The HP 2510P also had a great keyboard, used one of those for a year back in 2007, now that was a good laptop, first one I ever owned that gave me true 9 hours of battery.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #120 of 123

i am searching about lawsuits against iCloud/apple because, as it says right on the iTunes page, "back up the  most important data on your iPhone to iCloud"  i backed up my entire phone, shortly before it was stolen.  i now need that info, which included photos, for a custody hearing, as the man's child is stuck in Jordan, which is not a party to the Hague Convention, ie it will not return children to US parents.

Unfortunately, I was informed tonight that the entire 16 gig upload of my telephone, which was stolen shortly there after, is not there

Apparently, the back up I did tonight, despite the fact that the "upload to iCloud automatically when..,plugged into computer/tTunes" (i'm not looking that up right now, I am too upset)was turned off.  Apparently, the scores of my spider solitaire games is much more important than the photos of child abuse committed by a kid's mother, who is now stuck in Jordan, without even the american embassy open (as confirmed today by the State Department), to whom we cannot even send money, because he is a minor, photos that could break the 50/50 custody battle, are no longer on iCloud.

I was told tonight, "well, it only keeps things for 30 days."

I saw no disclaimer on the iTunes page.  In fact, at the time my phone was stolen, I didn't HAVE a working computer.

My new iPhone 5 is apparently not working, either. I discovered on July 28 that it does not send tones after calling a company, say Apple, or the phone company, that can be heard by the voice mail prompts.

It was only due to this, that I discovered the cherished and, I thought, "safe" information that had been transferred to iCloud, was no longer existent.  I had deliberately turned it "off" to prevent the loss of any information.

I do not think that being unable to see your son until he comes of age and can leave the middle east on his own is "trivial."

Nowhere that I have seen does it warn people that their information rusted to iCloud will be overwritten by anything from an iPhone, even and ESPECIALLY when one has taken steps to turn off "backups."

Now, if there is an attorney anywhere who would like to take this on, I am very interested.

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