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Amazon planning to sell ads on Kindle Fire welcome screen

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Amazon has reportedly begun pitching to advertising agencies the opportunity to advertise on the welcome screen of its Kindle Fire tablet for a price of $600,000.

Details on the program were shared this week by an executive at an ad agency with Ad Age. Amazon was said to have pitched the new advertising program to the agency, offering more ad inventory and the opportunity to be included in an Amazon public relations campaign if they spend $1 million on Kindle Fire ads.

Amazon already sells ad-supported versions of its e-ink-based Kindle readers, which are advertised as "Kindle with Special Offers." On those devices, advertising-driven screen savers will display when the hardware is not in use.

It's unknown whether Amazon plans to offer a new ad-supported Kindle Fire at an even lower price than the hardware's current $199 cost, or if it plans to place ads on the welcome screens of existing Kindle Fire owners. However, Ad Age did state the $600,000 minimum ad buy-in would be a high price "for an ad unit on a device that currently has no distribution," suggesting the ads will be displayed on current models.

Agency executives who spoke about Amazon's pitch to them off the record declined to participate the in-the-works advertising program. They expressed concern over the fact that Amazon isn't guaranteeing the number of devices the advertisements will reach, because Amazon "hasn't decided whether the ads will start popping up on devices that have already been purchased or just on new devices."

Kindle Fire


Amazon is already believed to be taking a loss for selling the Kindle Fire for just $199. At that price, the touchscreen tablet sells for half the price of Apple's $399 iPad 2.

Earlier this month, new data from IDC showed that shipments of the Kindle Fire saw a "steep drop" in the first quarter of 2012, allowing Apple's iPad to grow to 68 percent of tablets shipped worldwide. The Kindle Fire fell from a 16.8 percent share of shipments during the fourth quarter of calendar 2011 to just 4 percent of shipments in the first quarter of 2012, suggesting demand weakened significantly after the holiday shopping season.

Reports have suggested that Amazon plans to launch a larger Kindle Fire with a 10.1-inch display later this year that would more directly compete with Apple's 9.7-inch iPad. The new, larger Kindle Fire is believed to be in development under the code name "Coyote."
post #2 of 51

BA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…

 

I guess that's the future of software, isn't it? Apple's model, where you get the software, and Google/Amazon's model where they whore themselves out to advertisers in an attempt to drop prices to compete with Apple.

 

And now I sit back and wait for someone to link me to those patents of Apple's regarding advertising within the OS. News flash: they're not being used! And I wouldn't be surprised if Apple patented them simply so Google and Friends would either have to pay Apple to do that or so they couldn't at all.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #3 of 51
Stay classy Amazon. Stay classy.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #4 of 51
So good to see Amazon putting user experience ahead of all other interests.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #5 of 51

Jeff Bezos is a selfish money whore who doesn't feel that he owes his employees anything, including health care. This comes from a very close friend of mine who works for his personal estate and has interactions with him on a regular basis. The guy is a first class a-hole.

post #6 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

So good to see Amazon putting user experience ahead of all other interests.

 

You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost? 

post #7 of 51

Aha! Just like I said before - it's more than just about making up for losses in hardware with contents sales.

post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost? 

 

 Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #9 of 51

I would not mind an ad supported Fire for $99. But not for the paltry discounts they did with the normal Kindle. 


Heck, I guess even with a smaller discount like $150 the develoment community would find a way to get them off. 

post #10 of 51

Amazon's ethos is one of the reasons why I don't fear them taking over.  

 

 

They don't mind doing annoying things like this which means they'll always be the value 

company but never the premium company.   

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #11 of 51

Imagine having to sit through 30 seconds video commercial every time you want to use your Kindle....

 

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME

 

 lol.gif

post #12 of 51

You people laugh, but I can almost guarantee you that Wall Street is going to love the idea and more money will be pouring into Amazon.  Money is money and whoring is good.  Jeff Bezos is going to be called a genius and he'll make that many more friends where it counts.  Those guys that control Wall Street all love Jeff Bezos and that's why Amazon's P/E is close to 190.  Wall Street does not care about end user experience crap.  It's not worth anything to them because they can't put a fixed value on something like that.  They think it's great if consumers have to click through ads to get to where they want to go.  It's what you call a captive audience and that begets ad revenue.  The whole Android OS model is built for advertising.  It's made for consumers who don't want to pay for anything.

post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

You people laugh, but I can almost guarantee you that Wall Street is going to love the idea and more money will be pouring into Amazon.  Money is money and whoring is good.  Jeff Bezos is going to be called a genius and he'll make that many more friends where it counts.  Those guys that control Wall Street all love Jeff Bezos and that's why Amazon's P/E is close to 190.  Wall Street does not care about end user experience crap.  It's not worth anything to them because they can't put a fixed value on something like that.  They think it's great if consumers have to click through ads to get to where they want to go.  It's what you call a captive audience and that begets ad revenue.  The whole Android OS model is built for advertising.  It's made for consumers who don't want to pay for anything.

 

Apple doesn't seem to disagree, but they just can't quite execute with iAD.

post #14 of 51

Kindle Fire?

 

What's a Kindle Fire??!
 

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #15 of 51

Wow! Seriously? It is sickening. It seems that everything is AD driven these days. Next thing you know, Charmin will start selling ad space on every sheet of toilet paper. Its really sickening. Ads everywhere. I pay for TV, has ads. I pay for cellular service, I get ad texts. At least if we ever get ads on toilet paper,I'll feel good wiping with it.
 

post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmallgood View Post
Next thing you know, Charmin will start selling ad space on every sheet of toilet paper. Its really sickening.

 

Hey, that's actually not a bad idea at all. And on paper towels, as well.


They always waste our money printing stupid little designs on them anyway; they may as well sell that space to advertisers to bring their prices down for us.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #17 of 51

I spend a few hours with one the other day it is a form of torture.  Now the awful user experience that is now turns into an even worse one!  Great idea.

Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost? 

I expect that Amazon's Car would be slathered in ads... even the headlights would project ads on the road.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #19 of 51

Wonder if they licensed Apple on this

Since Apple owns a patent on Advertisements within the OS, I wonder if Amazon has licensed it...

 

Link to the patent

 

Short article on it

post #20 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Amazon's ethos is one of the reasons why I don't fear them taking over.  

 

 

They don't mind doing annoying things like this which means they'll always be the value 

company but never the premium company.   

 

Fear them taking over what?

post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?

 

Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?

post #22 of 51

I own a Kindle Touch 3G with Special Offers. I picked it up unopened for $99 through Craigslist because I wanted to give an e-reader a try but didn't want to sweat charging another device daily. (Yes I'm looking at you my iPhone 4) It has become one of my favorite devices and I love the three weeks between charges, the weight and the clear e-ink screen.

 

I looked up how to jailbreak it via an MP3 and even saw that there was a program that would strip all the advertising from it. I also saw that one of the "apps" Amazon offers is a Special Offers app for Kindles without the ads that can allow them to receive the offers. I decided not to remove the Special Offers because after a few days I found that they were really well targeted. I am in the midst of enjoying 20 Crossfit classes for $24 that I got through my Kindle. I also am reading Slaughterhouse-Five which was a Kindle Daily Deal offered via the lock screen for $0.99. It probably offered that to me because I had purchased the Kindle exclusive Basic Training by Kurt Vonnegut, also for $0.99. The local deals especially have been quite interesting. I can't say what would be there for everyone since I believe they are targeted. In my case it is a lot of dinners for two, fitness offers, book and movie recommendations. The most interesting recent offer was for some dance classes and if not for some scheduling conflicts, I probably would have jumped on it and taken the wife.

 

If Amazon forces current Kindle owners to accept the special offers, it would break with past practice and would not be a good new practice. However their current practice of giving one a choice and lower priced hardware in exchange for some pretty decent advertising offers has been just great for me. If this allowed Amazon to sell the current Kindle Fire for $99 as component prices drop or perhaps even $150, that is a fair trade.

 

If Amazon were really going to be smart, they would keep the current hardware for a while and drive the price down, much like what Apple has done with the iPad 2. In addition they should take their variation of Android and make it optimized instead of being such a pig and requiring such massive hardware. It shouldn't be hard to really make the interface and software fly on the dual 1 ghz TI OMAP4 chip the Fire has now. It clearly doesn't do that yet in my estimation, but it could while also getting cheaper.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

You people laugh, but I can almost guarantee you that Wall Street is going to love the idea and more money will be pouring into Amazon.  Money is money and whoring is good.  Jeff Bezos is going to be called a genius and he'll make that many more friends where it counts.  Those guys that control Wall Street all love Jeff Bezos and that's why Amazon's P/E is close to 190.  Wall Street does not care about end user experience crap.  It's not worth anything to them because they can't put a fixed value on something like that.  They think it's great if consumers have to click through ads to get to where they want to go.  It's what you call a captive audience and that begets ad revenue.  The whole Android OS model is built for advertising.  It's made for consumers who don't want to pay for anything.

 

 

Yes, except people will hate the product, the word will get out, and Amazon will not sell Kindles. 

post #24 of 51

Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.

post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.

 

This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount. 

 

This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.

post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost? 

I read statements like this and wonder if you think before posting. Do you know they're sold below cost? You read it on Appleinsider. The user experience comments are pretty meaningless as they're not based on anything other than bland articles.

post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?

 

That's like saying the iPhone, iPad and all Android devices are POS terminals for Amazon and myriad other vendors.

post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Haha, what do people expect? Cheap people who buy cheap, inferior products, looking to save buck, shouldn't be surprised by any ads. It's the same reason why iOS apps make a ton more money than Android apps. Some people are cheap, and they'd probably pimp out their own sister if that would save them $15 bucks on their next shitty Android phone.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misa View Post

 

This is pretty much what happens anywhere. Ever see businesses cashing in unused coupons? Seen Extreme couponing? Ever see software that throws an ad on your computer screen and promises you the revenue? Airmiles/points loyalty programs? As long as there have been ways of getting "free" money by some inconvenience, there will be people who think it's a good idea. Those that do eventually cause it to become more inconvenient or not worth it to deal with the extra time wasted to get the discount. 

 

This is the situation we're in now with the Kindle Fire, if they put ads on it, the inconvenience will put off some people, but there will still be buyers. Just the people who buy probably won't have money to actually buy the advertised product, so it's a bit silly for advertisers to assume they'll get any sales from advertising on the device. I must therefor believe that Amazon is only going to flog products they sell by targeting their own customers using their private information.

It's a bit ironic, isn't it: the ads end up reaching precisely the people that the advertiser has the least interest in reaching, since the demographic that it truly wants is the one that will buy the non-ad-supported version of Fire.

 

Economists have a phrase for this: adverse selection.

post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Apple doesn't seem to disagree, but they just can't quite execute with iAD.

That's to provide a replacement ad system for free apps. At least the OS is not likely to have ads built into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hey, that's actually not a bad idea at all. And on paper towels, as well.

They always waste our money printing stupid little designs on them anyway; they may as well sell that space to advertisers to bring their prices down for us.

I wonder if advertising really does bring prices down like certain parties like to say. It's a tough thing to track when they're taking money from both the customer and the ad buyer.
post #30 of 51

It's actually kindling for the fire. 

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntercr View Post

Since Apple owns a patent on Advertisements within the OS, I wonder if Amazon has licensed it...

 

Link to the patent

 

Short article on it

You are misinformed, as is the article author.  This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad.  And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.

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post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post

You are misinformed, as is the article author.  This is a patent specific to how iAds work, not just any ad.  And it is VERY old news. I laugh when the author asks if Apple is foolish enough to implement this, if he has used more than just a couple iPhone Apps that have ads he probably has seen one himself already, like two years ago.


Which author, the original article talking about Amazon's plans or the article I linked to regarding Apple's patent?

 

I respectfully say you missed the purpose of my linking to that article. Indeed it is old news... the article was from 2009, if you did not notice.  But my  point was not to support what the author says, it was to illustrate out that Apple has already patented use of Ads within the OPERATING SYSTEM. This may, as you say, be construed to include iAds today, but back when it was developed  it was focused specifically around placing Ads within the operating system.

I was claiming that you can call this ad placement on the welcome screen part of the OS, since it's not an App and is not optional to view these ads.

 

Here's a better ( and more recent ) article on the subject from Macrumors.com

 

Amazon, by forcing the user to view the Ad before the system is activated ( or in the case mentioned in the original article as the system is turned off )  by the OS itself instead of within an application could be considered in violation of this patent.

Whether Amazon considered licensing this from Apple is something I wonder.

post #33 of 51

Oohhhh, that's brilliant!

 

Here's another riff on Amazon's genius idea:  advertising cars!  When you start the car, the radio plays a 30 second advertising spot, during which time the transmission is locked into "Park".  Drivers can opt out of the advertising by paying a monthly fee of $19.95.  Guaranteed windfall profits for the first automaker to implement this brilliant idea!

post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Apple doesn't seem to disagree, but they just can't quite execute with iAD.

Really? Then please show us somewhere that Apple has ads in its OS or on the welcome screen.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
You expected something different from a POS device sold below his cost? 

 

 Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?

Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

 Cool! Kindle can be used as a point-of-sale terminal?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

Of course, you doesn't know the Kindle always being a self service POS for Amazon?

 

That's like saying the iPhone, iPad and all Android devices are POS terminals for Amazon and myriad other vendors.

No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post
Apple constantly mentions how many credit cards they have on file and how people use them to purchase items through their iOS devices. How is that any different? Apple even mandates use of their store so they get their 30% cut.

No, all iOS devices are limited to being POS terminals only for Apple. No one else is allowed to link to their store.

 

Remind me to always clarify my wordplay jokes in the future… 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #37 of 51
So you reckon their P/E will reach 250 by year end.

One point you are absolutely right is wall street love bozo.
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

So you reckon their P/E will reach 250 by year end.
One point you are absolutely right is wall street love bozo.

While I agree that investors have gone bonkers over Amazon, it's not quite as bad as it seems. While they are trading at 190 times earnings, they're only at 53 times free cash flow. Cash flow is substantially better than earnings for AMZN. I haven't explored it to find out why or whether that's a short term thing.

Personally, I can't see what the justification is for the rosy earnings. If you look at the price of put options, a significant number of people apparently agree with me, but the market as a whole thinks Amazon is worth the current share price.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #39 of 51
I can't wait to see the reaction of my co-worker whe she realizes her fire will start showing ads.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I read statements like this and wonder if you think before posting. Do you know they're sold below cost? You read it on Appleinsider. The user experience comments are pretty meaningless as they're not based on anything other than bland articles.

well the barnes and noble tablet the nook was 250, and their were not any rumours that the nook was sold at a loss...

since the platform(amazon fire) is a copy of the blackberry playbook (and that was released at a price of 500) which was then reduced to 200 (fire sale! LOL) so amazon selling it at 200 is really at best a break even price.

it will be tough for Amazon to produce a 10 inch tablet for 299, because they will not be able use RIM's production line of the playbook, for the 10 inch tablet... thus the 10 incher will be 250 with a prime sub, and ads on the screen saver/home page... probably 329 with out the ads included on the screen saver.

but, dont despair, amazon is probably incompetent, so they will not be able to produce a totally-locked-down-10-inch-tablet.... so those with "cheap" in their blood will be able to get a tablet at 250, and become an angry bird (cheep, cheep, cheap, cheap) LOL. (because you will be angry for using a tablet that is so cheap!)
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