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Apple CEO Tim Cook meeting with Samsung chief today in California

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Settlement talks between Apple and Samsung are set to begin today in San Francisco, Calif., with Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook and Samsung CEO Choi Gee-sung personally taking part in the discussions.

Both CEOs have been instructed by a federal judge to appear for a court-supervised mediation that will begin at a federal courthouse in San Francisco on Monday. Making the CEOs themselves get involved in the discussions is a new tactic being employed by some courts, according to Reuters.

"It is the corporate equivalent of therapy, only in this case, the participants each get to bring a team of lawyers," author Dan Levine wrote.

The hope is that bringing in executives who are not lawyers may allow the companies to reach a settlement, rather than hold their ground and continue the dispute. Both Apple and Samsung have accused the other of patent infringement, and the two companies are engaged in dozens of lawsuits that span around the world.

Another example of two high-profile CEOs participating in settlement talks occurred last year, when Oracle's Lary Ellison and Larry Page of Google took part in mediation. However, no settlement was reached as a result of those talks, and the case went to trial.



If Apple and Samsung cannot come to an agreement in the court-moderated talks featuring Cook and Gee-sung, the California case is scheduled to go to trial in San Jose at the end of July. Samsung has attempted to convince the court that a July start is too soon, but Apple has argued that the trial must begin quickly to put an end to Samsung's continued success in selling infringing products.

Both sides also dropped a number of patents cited in their respective suits earlier this month at the order of Judge Lucy Koh. She wrote that going to trial with the original number of patents included in the complaints would be "cruel and unusual punishment to a jury."

An unnamed Samsung executive in Seoul who spoke with Reuters before departing for the mediation talks in California said that there is still a "big gap" with Apple, but added that there are a number of potential negotiation options. One compromise mentioned by the executive was cross-licensing of patented inventions between the two companies.

But Apple may not have much incentive to settle, as it has yet to lose an infringement case to Samsung, while Samsung has seen injunctions filed against a number of its products in various suits around the world. Just this week, Apple won an appeal in the U.S. and subsequently filed for an injunction against Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1, which could lead to it being pulled from selves as early as June.
post #2 of 35
I want to see the video of this meeting where the Samsung CEO is wearing a cheaper version of Cook's attire and mirroring every body motion Cook makes.

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post #3 of 35

Of course after Tim received his black belt.  It's gonna be a martial arts smack down!  Hong Kong Phooey Karate Chop - 'Hi-Yah'!

 

hong_kong_phooey.jpg

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post #4 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I want to see the video of this meeting where the Samsung CEO is wearing a cheaper version of Cook's attire and mirroring every body motion Cook makes.

 

Funny. :) 

 

The problem is that in reality... Cook only has one badly fitting suit, and Koreans (especially rich Koreans), are generally pretty snappy dressers overall.  

 

Possibly Samsung should get into clothing manufacture instead of electronics. 

post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I want to see the video of this meeting where the Samsung CEO is wearing a cheaper version of Cook's attire and mirroring every body motion Cook makes.

 

Samsung CEO will show up in mock black turtleneck, blue jeans and sneakers while Cook will be nicely attired in an Armani suit.  Samsung CEO deeply embarrassed.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #6 of 35
CEO Choi Gee-sung is the man who authorized his company Samsung to steal Apple's IP in order to trick customers into buying a cheap knockoff. I hope the suit(s) can be settled but the damage is done, Choi Gee-sung has brought great shame upon Samsung, it's employees and the Korean culture itself.
post #7 of 35

No quarter!

post #8 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Funny. :) 

 

The problem is that in reality... Cook only has one badly fitting suit, and Koreans (especially rich Koreans), are generally pretty snappy dressers overall.  

 

Possibly Samsung should get into clothing manufacture instead of electronics. 

 

Actually, I think it is Samsung that has the badly fitting suit...  ;-)

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post #9 of 35

Can somebody explain why Apple has not sued Google directly?  It is the Google Android software that ultimately infringes on Apple patents.  Why beat around the bush when Apple can go for the roots?  Goog with Moto have no qualms about suing Apple on FRAN patents. It is like with fighting the Mafia... don't waste time with the nickel and dime players, go after the kingpin.   Any lawyers in the house?

TIA.

post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Can somebody explain why Apple has not sued Google directly?  It is the Google Android software that ultimately infringes on Apple patents.  Why beat around the bush when Apple can go for the roots?  Goog with Moto have no qualms about suing Apple on FRAN patents. It is like with fighting the Mafia... don't waste time with the nickel and dime players, go after the kingpin.   Any lawyers in the house?

TIA.

 

As I understand it, the reason why is because Google didn't create every single line of code in Android. It's actually one of the flaws in the OS, that folks can add their own stuff. in particular the UI features. Google has been cleared on the trade dress type stuff because they didn't control the look of the hardware or the UI. 

 

As for today's talk, I could see Cook starting off by saying that there is point blank no way in hell that Apple is going to license any non FRAND tech to Samsung so that is off the table. FRAND rules actually prohibit making a license on non FRAND items a condition of getting the FRAND license so that will be an easy win for Apple. So then they can talk what is fair and equal under FRAND rules for that tech and so on. Something tells me that Samsung won't want to play ball and this will go to court. Which is a bad play cause the judge could be so pissed that after they rule that yes Apple should have played and now will, under court agreed fair and equal terms, Samsung won't get any back pay or a tiny cut of it for their antics. And so on

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #11 of 35
Just FYI, the Samsung CEO's surname is Choi. His given name is gee sung.
post #12 of 35

Pants him, Mr. Cook.  

post #13 of 35

Can those two camps agree to the ceasefire, then go back to their workshops to make sure Windows Phone 8 will never get off the ground, for good?

post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

Can those two camps agree to the ceasefire, then go back to their workshops to make sure Windows Phone 8 will never get off the ground, for good?

I'm not sure they'd have anything to do, to make sure of that. lol.gif

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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #15 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post
Can those two camps agree to the ceasefire, then go back to their workshops to make sure Windows Phone 8 will never get off the ground, for good?

 

You have it backward.


Android needs killed entirely. Windows Phone 7/8 needs encouraged. We need actual innovation and actual creative thought in this industry. iOS and WP7/8 provide that.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #16 of 35
Isn't Asian culture all about honor and saving face? I don't see much coming out of this meeting. Sounds like the two will stare each other down to me.
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
Isn't Asian culture all about honor and saving face? I don't see much coming out of this meeting. Sounds like the two will stare each other down to me.

 

What was honorable about stealing IP for both hardware and software?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Can somebody explain why Apple has not sued Google directly?  It is the Google Android software that ultimately infringes on Apple patents.  Why beat around the bush when Apple can go for the roots?  Goog with Moto have no qualms about suing Apple on FRAN patents. It is like with fighting the Mafia... don't waste time with the nickel and dime players, go after the kingpin.   Any lawyers in the house?

TIA.

 

From what I understand, although Google profits from the android user base and ads, they aren't actually selling the android operating system and they're not manufacturing phones that copy the iphone. Apple has no choice but to sue the companies who do the actual selling of their alleged IP and designs.

post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Can somebody explain why Apple has not sued Google directly?  It is the Google Android software that ultimately infringes on Apple patents.  Why beat around the bush when Apple can go for the roots?  Goog with Moto have no qualms about suing Apple on FRAN patents. It is like with fighting the Mafia... don't waste time with the nickel and dime players, go after the kingpin.   Any lawyers in the house?
TIA.

Simple strategy. You go after the easiest cases first. After you win a couple of those, then it becomes easier to win the more difficult cases.

In particular, winning a couple of cases against handset manufacturers would be the first step since Google is guilty of contributory infringement, not direct infringement. It's not absolutely necessary to win cases against the direct infringers first, but that's by far the most common and easiest way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neosum View Post

From what I understand, although Google profits from the android user base and ads, they aren't actually selling the android operating system and they're not manufacturing phones that copy the iphone. Apple has no choice but to sue the companies who do the actual selling of their alleged IP and designs.

Not true. Apple can sue Google for contributory infringement, but there are timing concerns - see above.
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post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Isn't Asian culture all about honor and saving face? I don't see much coming out of this meeting. Sounds like the two will stare each other down to me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

What was honorable about stealing IP for both hardware and software?

 

I'm talking about the Samsung CEO denying everything in an attempt to preserve his honor and save face. I didn't say he was honorable.

post #21 of 35

I love Samsung as a company but they don't even make it subtle sometimes.This is S-voice off of my galaxy nexus. (Leaked APK). Its actually a souped up VlingoScreenshot_2012-05-21-11-19-22.png

post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

You have it backward.


Android needs killed entirely. Windows Phone 7/8 needs encouraged. We need actual innovation and actual creative thought in this industry. iOS and WP7/8 provide that.

WP8 looks like it was designed by Mondrian debilitated by Alzheimer's.

post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post

WP8 looks like it was designed by Mondrian debilitated by Alzheimer's.


And Android looks like it was (originally) designed by Apple.  What's your point?

post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


And Android looks like it was (originally) designed by Apple.  What's your point?

It's fugly!

post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

As I understand it, the reason why is because Google didn't create every single line of code in Android. It's actually one of the flaws in the OS, that folks can add their own stuff. in particular the UI features. Google has been cleared on the trade dress type stuff because they didn't control the look of the hardware or the UI. 

 

 

Not a flaw at all as it gives vendors freedom to put their own features on their phones.

post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

I love Samsung as a company but they don't even make it subtle sometimes.This is S-voice off of my galaxy nexus. (Leaked APK). Its actually a souped up VlingoScreenshot_2012-05-21-11-19-22.png

What aren't they making subtle? Vlingo actually make the app.

post #27 of 35

The samsung phone is definitely not a copy of the iPhone- the clock is on the right side instead of the middle for God's sake!

post #28 of 35

At first I didn't quite understand why Steve Jobs was so over zealous at suing Samsung all over the world but when you really analyze the design and functionality of Samsung's smart phones and tablets it becomes overwhelmingly clear that without their unique position in having access to Apples designs Samsung products would not have their current design and one can even surmise that the success they have enjoyed would be non-existent. 

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post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by internetworld7 View Post

At first I didn't quite understand why Steve Jobs was so over zealous at suing Samsung all over the world but when you really analyze the design and functionality of Samsung's smart phones and tablets it becomes overwhelmingly clear that without their unique position in having access to Apples designs Samsung products would not have their current design and one can even surmise that the success they have enjoyed would be non-existent. 

I think that is accurate for the phone pictured above but not their later phones. It's quite obvious their other models, i.e. Galaxy II, look nothing like an iPhone.

post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

I'm talking about the Samsung CEO denying everything in an attempt to preserve his honor and save face. I didn't say he was honorable.

 

That's why Tim's opening statement to the Samsung CEO was, "Here, pull my finger."

 

Once that was over there was no more "face" to be saved.

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post #31 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AjitMD View Post

Can somebody explain why Apple has not sued Google directly?  It is the Google Android software that ultimately infringes on Apple patents.  Why beat around the bush when Apple can go for the roots?  Goog with Moto have no qualms about suing Apple on FRAN patents. It is like with fighting the Mafia... don't waste time with the nickel and dime players, go after the kingpin.   Any lawyers in the house?

TIA.

 

No lawyer here (thank God), but from what I remember being said early on is that since Google gives away the Android OS, Apple's case is weak there. So, Apple is left with suing those who are making money directly from using the OS. In addition, by being aggressive in their suing, Apple is making it unpredictable in estimating the profitability of using Android for one's OS. 

 

The expected result is that Android will flounder and manufacturers will look toward an independently developed OS, such as Microsoft's WinMo8 to build around. Apple is buying time with their suits by roiling the market. Google's purchase of MotoMo is also a factor in other manufacture's confidence in using Android. Additionally, Windows will be promoting Bing search on their new mobile products and Apple is moving away from supporting Google Maps due to Google's OS competition.

 

I cannot imagine that Google's management is all that pleased at how things have gone sideways for them due to Android's non-profitable fallout and future impact.

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #32 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

What aren't they making subtle?

"Are you like siri?"

"i sure like to think so"

post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung View Post

I love Samsung as a company but they don't even make it subtle sometimes.This is S-voice off of my galaxy nexus. (Leaked APK). Its actually a souped up VlingoScreenshot_2012-05-21-11-19-22.png

 

Does it actually have the Apple WiFi and the Windows WiFi Network icons on top?

Oh, I see it now - they just have the Apple WiFi icon there. The other one is the network strength indicator. That was a little confusing though.

post #34 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

"Are you like siri?"

"i sure like to think so"

Vlingo, which is app is based on, has been around a lot longer than Siri. There was a blackberry and iPhone version in 2008 so really the question is, is Siri like Vlingo?

post #35 of 35

The legal tide is turning slowly against Android. Over the last couple of weeks or so, there have been quite a few judgements that have gone against Android across the world, and in favor of multiple parties - not just Apple. Microsoft and Oracle have also become powerful opponents of Android.

 

I think Samsung will be sensible to explore the option of a settlement with Apple. This might also make considerable sense from Apple's perspective as well. Considering the marketplace, it is highly doubtful if any court will ever issue a permanent injunction against Android. Most likely, even if there is a judgement favoring Apple, it will only be in the form of monetary dues for past and future infringement. It is much better for Apple to extract money from Samsung today, than to spend money fighting law suits that may or may not have an impact. Also, once Apple and Microsoft extract money from Samsung, it is highly likely that Samsung will itself look for alternatives to Android - whether it is Bada, or Windows Phone 8.

 

It is already rumored that MS makes almost $15 per handset from Android. And if Apple can also make that kind of money, Android will no longer be a free OS. At $30-$35 per handset, it might make sense for Samsung to move to Windows Phone 8. If Samsung is OK paying MS $15 per handset, when MS has only general OS stuff, and nothing specifically significant to smartphones, they should be more than ready to pay $15-20 to Apple - considering Apple has created the Smartphone as we know it today.

 

Any settlement will also be quite a major positive for Apple - firstly, getting $15-20 per handset from your largest competitor is a massive advantage for Apple. Secondly, Samsung will also have to pay the same amount for past handsets - and this would be a pretty substantial figure. Considering Samsung is the largest smartphone maker, I would not be surprised if the payments for past infringements alone add up to several billion dollars. At $20 per handset, just 50 million handsets will get Apple $1 Billion. And Samsung makes about 35 million handsets EACH quarter! Apple has a lot of money in the bank, but this could still be massive. And once the largest Android player signs up, odds are, the smaller players will also be forced to signup quickly.

 

This is possibly the best way to go thermonuclear on Android. If Android starts costing the manufacturers big amounts of money, they will consider alternatives quickly.

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