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ARM-based Windows RT seen confusing consumers, benefitting Apple

post #1 of 111
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The launch of ARM-based tablets and computers later this year running Windows RT is expected by one analyst to confuse consumers, potentially pushing even more of them to Apple's tightly integrated ecosystem.

Mark Moskowitz with J.P. Morgan issued a note to investors on Tuesday discussing this year's launch of ARM-capable Windows, branded by Microsoft as Windows RT. He does not see the product, which will run on low-power processors like the ones found in the iPad and iPhone, as being a major catalyst for Microsoft in the near-to-mid-term.

In fact, Moskowitz believes the average consumer could be confused this fall, when Windows 8 will launch. Windows 8 will feature both the Metro interface as well as the traditional Windows desktop layout, while Windows RT will be entirely Metro.

Moskowitz sees a general lack of Windows RT devices, along with multiple Windows 8-based alternatives running on similar devices with traditional PC processors, serving to confuse many consumers at launch.

"We think that the consumer could be confused and distracted by the bevy of PCs, tablets, e-readers, and hybrid devices slated for release later this year," he said. "A combination of varying operating systems and hardware form factors are the key reasons."

This confusion, he said, could end up benefiting Apple, which offers a more integrated solution and streamlined product line that will be less intimidating to consumers.

Windows 8
Windows 8 Consumer Preview. | Source: Microsoft


In all, Moskowitz believes that a total of seven ARM-compatible Windows RT devices will be available at launch this October. He believes the general lack of available devices is being driven by Microsoft, which aims to maintain tight control over the initial release for quality control purposes.

ASUS, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Nokia, Samsung and Toshiba are all gearing up to launch ARM-based devices for the WIndows RT launch. Moskowitz thinks other major vendors will introduce their own Windows RT devices to the market by early 2013.

Apple is predicted to continue dominating in both the tablet market, with its iPad, and ultraportable space, with the MacBook Air, even in the face of the Windows RT launch this fall. Moskowitz said that Microsoft's ARM-based operating system does not provide enough differentiation to drive consumer demand at launch.

While Apple's iPad is seen dominating the mid to high end of the market, Moskowitz believes Microsoft could eventually find some traction in the low end of the consumer tablet market. He believes that Windows RT on ARM-based hardware will become the combination of choice in the sub-$300 tablet market, beating out low-priced Android-based devices.
post #2 of 111
Quote:
(Microsoft) which aims to maintain tight control over the initial release for quality control purposes

 

 

Quote:
ASUS, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo, Nokia, Samsung and Toshiba are all gearing up to launch ARM-based devices for the WIndows RT launch.

 

Tablet PC v.2?

post #3 of 111

sub $300 market? ROFL!  How are they going to cost that little?  Microsoft tax + hardware + cloner tax is going to be over $400 for a bare bones model easily.  This is going to fail hard just like Microsoft Windows Phone has.  I can not wait to watch it....have to get my popcorn ready.

post #4 of 111

Who cares about the ARM processor confusion?

The Metro interface is enough to keep customers confused all on its own!

post #5 of 111

The interface isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. The blocks appear to be labeled well enough and easily recognizable; it's just a matter of the user deciding what goes where, and getting used to the positioning. I'm sure you did the same thing with your phone; I know I did with mine. 

post #6 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

sub $300 market? ROFL!  How are they going to cost that little?  Microsoft tax + hardware + cloner tax is going to be over $400 for a bare bones model easily.  This is going to fail hard just like Microsoft Windows Phone has.  I can not wait to watch it....have to get my popcorn ready.

Microsoft tax? Hahahahaha...

post #7 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

sub $300 market? ROFL!  How are they going to cost that little?  Microsoft tax + hardware + cloner tax is going to be over $400 for a bare bones model easily.  This is going to fail hard just like Microsoft Windows Phone has.  I can not wait to watch it....have to get my popcorn ready.

Why would you like to see a company fail? Cynical much?

post #8 of 111

What company more richly deserves to fail than Microsoft?  Their Office suite has been ripping off Mac users for two decades.

post #9 of 111
I thought the whole point of a Windows 8 on a tablet was so it would run all your old software? You know... people say the iPad is a toy and that they'd rather run "real" Windows applications on a tablet.

But it sounds like there will be a bunch of WindowsRT tablets pushed out into the market to battle the iPad.... but those WindowsRT won't even run your favorite programs... they will only run Metro apps.

I hear there will also be X86 Windows 8 tablets which will run any Windows application... but those will likely be bigger, heavier and more expensive than the ARM Windows 8 tablets and the iPad.

Yeah... I'm thinking there will be a little confusion this Fall.
post #10 of 111

Yeah, what's a few tens of thousands of lost, good paying jobs in this economy! They can all go greet me at Walmart.

post #11 of 111
"He believes that Windows RT on ARM-based hardware will become the combination of choice in the sub-$300 tablet market, beating out low-priced Android-based devices."
 
That ought to leave about a $1 for Microsoft licensing ....or a $1 for the manufacturers. Have fun with those pieces of trash.
post #12 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by commun5 View Post

What company more richly deserves to fail than Microsoft?  Their Office suite has been ripping off Mac users for two decades.

 

Bollocks. Microsoft put a gun to your head to buy Office? There are plenty of office alternatives, and there always have been. Or did Office offer something other applications couldn't?

post #13 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by commun5 View Post

What company more richly deserves to fail than Microsoft?  Their Office suite has been ripping off Mac users for two decades.

Your first point doesnt deserve a response.

 

How exactly have they been ripping off Mac users?

post #14 of 111

Does Windows RT run regular windows programs? If not, this is going to be a mess.

 

I'm fairly tech savy, but I don't really understand what RT stands for. Run Time. Ok, but what's that mean? When it's called Windows, and looks like Windows 8, but runs on a totally separate architecture and can't actually run traditional windows programs, it's going to really confuse people.

post #15 of 111

I would agree about the Metro interface.

When Windows 8 lands on desktops in corporations, the screams are going to be insane.

I just installed Windows 8 (under VMware Fusion) and played with for about 1/2 hour. It was a very frustrating experience.

This is my personal opinion: the transition from Windows XP/7 to Mac OS X will be easier for most people than the move to Windows 8.
 

post #16 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

I would agree about the Metro interface.

When Windows 8 lands on desktops in corporations, the screams are going to be insane.

I just installed Windows 8 (under VMware Fusion) and played with for about 1/2 hour. It was a very frustrating experience.

This is my personal opinion: the transition from Windows XP/7 to Mac OS X will be easier for most people than the move to Windows 8.
 

I agree, I have also played with it and found it frustrating.

post #17 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I thought the whole point of a Windows 8 on a tablet was so it would run all your old software? You know... people say the iPad is a toy and that they'd rather run "real" Windows applications on a tablet.
But it sounds like there will be a bunch of WindowsRT tablets pushed out into the market to battle the iPad.... but those WindowsRT won't even run your favorite programs... they will only run Metro apps.
I hear there will also be X86 Windows 8 tablets which will run any Windows application... but those will likely be bigger, heavier and more expensive than the ARM Windows 8 tablets and the iPad.
Yeah... I'm thinking there will be a little confusion this Fall.

 

I agree that it will be confusing, but I don't necessarily believe the x86 tablets will be bulkier than the ARM tablets. Intel did finally get their Atom chip into a smartphone last month so I can't imagine slim tablets being much of an issue.

post #18 of 111

Am I just dumb? I have no idea what the RT stands for. 

 

Rad Tablets?

Really Touchy?

post #19 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros View Post

I agree that it will be confusing, but I don't necessarily believe the x86 tablets will be bulkier than the ARM tablets. Intel did finally get their Atom chip into a smartphone last month so I can't imagine slim tablets being much of an issue.

Oh that's cool. Have Atoms gotten any better?

Last time I used something with an Atom processor... it was a netbook... and it was HORRIBLE. But at least it was cheap... though I don't know anyone who used an Atom-powered netbook as a primary machine.

I think Microsoft and the OEMs are gonna try to spin Windows 8 tablets into "it's a tablet... but add a keyboard and it's one machine that does it all"

That sounds great in theory... but I hope these aren't woefully under-powered machines trying to do double-duty as both a tablet and a laptop equivalent.

.
Edited by Michael Scrip - 5/22/12 at 2:02pm
post #20 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I thought the whole point of a Windows 8 on a tablet was so it would run all your old software? You know... people say the iPad is a toy and that they'd rather run "real" Windows applications on a tablet.

 

Exactly. People see "Windows" and they're going to expect that software they've bought for their PC is going to run on their tablets.

 

I think it's going to be even worse when companies release versions of their software that do run on both. The interface and feature set will be different. Imagine trying to switch from the "File->Open" style of menus you're used to to "swipe this way with 3 fingers" or whatever gestures they decide to use to perform certain functions.

 

Tim Cook was right when he said it's stupid to try and combine a tablet and desktop OS. Nothing wrong with sharing a few features between them, but trying to make them co-exist is something I don't whink will work.

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post #21 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaren View Post

The interface isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. The blocks appear to be labeled well enough and easily recognizable; it's just a matter of the user deciding what goes where, and getting used to the positioning. I'm sure you did the same thing with your phone; I know I did with mine. 

People can get used to anything. And people deserve to get what they want. 

So people who get used to Metro will use it, and people who want Metro will like it.

I just don't think very many people, when faces with the option, will want it.

 

And as a user-centered researcher, my objective opinion is that the Metro interface is interesting as a concept and a surprising esthetic change for Microsoft.

But as far as usability, it's more than a bit of a train wreck.  

post #22 of 111

The "R" probably is for ARM and "T" for tablet.  So ARM Tablet edition. 

 

If it used an "A" that that would bring back memories of IBM PC ATs.  Bad memories.

post #23 of 111

RT steads for "Real Tough" experience.

post #24 of 111

The windows 8 interface is horrible. And yes, Microsoft Office is also horrible.

post #25 of 111

Windows Mobile was a far better moniker, but anyone who owned a device with that name probably still has nightmares.

post #26 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTel View Post

The "R" probably is for ARM and "T" for tablet.  So ARM Tablet edition. 

Are you sure it doesn't stand for "Reducedd Tablet" edition?

post #27 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeb View Post

Am I just dumb? I have no idea what the RT stands for. 

 

Rad Tablets?

Really Touchy?

Yes to your first question.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT

post #28 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post
Yes to your first question.

 

Condescension aside, his implication is that a name should make sense within a context and have some sort of point.

 

Runtime. Why would anyone associate a tablet or any of the technologies inherent therewith, with 'runtime'?

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post #29 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Condescension aside, his implication is that a name should make sense within a context and have some sort of point.

 

Runtime. Why would anyone associate a tablet or any of the technologies inherent therewith, with 'runtime'?

It's an OS name. No normal user one cares about that.

post #30 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post
It's an OS name. No normal user one cares about that.

 

Of course they don't. *bows*

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post #31 of 111
Love this, from the wikipedia page for windows RT:

New button combination for Ctrl + Alt + Del: The new option is to press Windows Key + Power.


The name changes (slightly), but some things will always stay 1smile.gif
post #32 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by seltzdesign View Post
Love this, from the wikipedia page for windows RT:
New button combination for Ctrl + Alt + Del: The new option is to press Windows Key + Power.
The name changes (slightly), but some things will always stay 1smile.gif

 

Will there be a video tutorial when it first boots up to alert users of the change? For something used daily, I don't think changing the key combo is the best idea.

 

And yes, every single time I boot into Windows, I end up using C+A+D. There's no other way to override full-screen applications' control of what you're seeing, which is completely inexcusable.

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post #33 of 111

RT=Rectal Tension

 

Which is what you feel when using one of these things.

post #34 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Bollocks. Microsoft put a gun to your head to buy Office? There are plenty of office alternatives, and there always have been. Or did Office offer something other applications couldn't?

Excuse me, but the fact that there are alternatives in no way contradicts the point that MSFT has been ripping off Mac users (and Windows users) with buggy bloated overly complex feature-bloated counterintuitive overpriced mediocre products for decades. As to Office specifically, MSFT has always worked very hard to keep the Office suite as incompatible as possible with alternatives which is a big problem when they dominate the business market. So what is it that you don't seem to understand?
post #35 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

Does Windows RT run regular windows programs? If not, this is going to be a mess.

 

I'm fairly tech savy, but I don't really understand what RT stands for. Run Time. Ok, but what's that mean? When it's called Windows, and looks like Windows 8, but runs on a totally separate architecture and can't actually run traditional windows programs, it's going to really confuse people.

No, Windows RT does not run regular Windows programs.

 

And to add to the confusing, part of the underlying technology API that sits between the lowest level and developers is called WinRT.  I mean, what ass-hat named this? (Most likely Balmer)

post #36 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros View Post

 

I agree that it will be confusing, but I don't necessarily believe the x86 tablets will be bulkier than the ARM tablets. Intel did finally get their Atom chip into a smartphone last month so I can't imagine slim tablets being much of an issue.

X86 is more power hungry than ARM. That may change in a year or os, but for now, one needs to pack a bigger battery. Also, ARM has the graphics circuitry built on the same die as the CPU, unlike the X86 chip. If ARM holds still for a couple years, Intel will catch up, but then again...

 

The main problem I see is that Microsoft Office is designed to be used with a mouse and keyboard. That may not translate well to a touch interface and still look like the same programs to the user.

 

If, however, MS should make a set of touch-based Office programs for ARM, I can't see any reason that MS shouldn't make it available to Apple iOS users to purchase. My business success is largely due to the availability of Office on a Macintosh.It may not be so compelling on an iOS device, but time will tell.

 

Unlike others on this board, I wish Microsoft all the best in the world. I hope their phones and tablets are a huge successss...What the hell am I saying! DIE Microsoft, and take that stinking fetid pile of code you call Windows with you!!

post #37 of 111
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredaroony View Post

Your first point doesnt deserve a response.

How exactly have they been ripping off Mac users?

To answer your question, see my comments just above this one. MSFT has clearly been ripping off consumers of their products. In fact Asia is about the only place in the world were people pay for MSFT products exactly what they are worth - about $1.25 for either Windows or Office on the street.
post #38 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th View Post

Does Windows RT run regular windows programs? If not, this is going to be a mess.

I'm fairly tech savy, but I don't really understand what RT stands for. Run Time. Ok, but what's that mean? When it's called Windows, and looks like Windows 8, but runs on a totally separate architecture and can't actually run traditional windows programs, it's going to really confuse people.

No it does NOT run regular Windows apps. And RT probably stands for Rejected Technology, or it relates to people who purchase - ReTarded.
Edited by FreeRange - 5/22/12 at 3:10pm
post #39 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post


Excuse me, but the fact that there are alternatives in no way contradicts the point that MSFT has been ripping off Mac users (and Windows users) with buggy bloated overly complex feature-bloated counterintuitive overpriced mediocre products for decades. As to Office specifically, MSFT has always worked very hard to keep the Office suite as incompatible as possible with alternatives which is a big problem when they dominate the business market. So what is it that you don't seem to understand?

While I agree with your assessment of MSFT Office in every respect, I also do thank the technology gods that Bill Gates et al have made Office available from the early days when Excel was known as Multiplan. 

post #40 of 111
It is insane to name an OS "runtime." I imagine even geeks are uncomfortable with the word. It is deeply anti-syntactic—see, I have to make up a word to describe this perversion of a word.

Oh, and I'm sorry to say this, because I'd like to see Microsoft continue keeping all those people employed.
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