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Rumor: Microsoft to launch Office for Apple's iOS in November - Page 2

post #41 of 79
Every time either Office or iWork is mentiomed the arguments about whether or not IWork is ready for prime time occur, and each time it boils down to whether or not one can or cannot do some feature an individual wants. As a full fledged hater of all things MS, I will say Office isn't that bad once you ditch the ribbons. A couple minor things make Word a better choice for my workflow right now, but Pages is great too. For the lightweight spreadsheet work I do I really enjoy Numbers', though inevitably end up using Excel since I'm doing all my other stuff in Office.

There's things I like and dislike about each really.
post #42 of 79

I think where MS has failed in office is in having the user be aware of what power they have. For example, there are still people that add inidividual cells cause they never heard of the sum function!. And to be fair, this applies to ALL suites.

 

This is something that if Siri can be adapted to, it would revolutionize productivity apps.

 

If I can say "compare my sales and returns column and every time my sales column is more, count it up and give me an average for the whole period", and then have the program put in the formula to do this, it would be AMAZING.

 

EDIT: Oh, by the way, this post counts as prior art if anyone tries to patent it, LOL

post #43 of 79

It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.

 

99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.

 

Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.

 

MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.

post #44 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92 View Post

It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.

 

99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.

 

Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.

 

MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.

Uhhh, there isn't another spreadsheet application with the depth of functions and features that excel has.

 

Now....how many of the people that use excel need those advanced commands? about 1%

 

But heres the thing. every new version of software has to add things to justify people buying it again. So sooner or later, every spreadsheet application will be chuck full of commands nobody uses or even know about. its just the way things are.

 

And by the way, just what about Office do you not like? Its not like it crashes a lot, actually for me it never has, and we darn well know that it has more features than anything else out there.

 

What were you trying to do that Office couldn't accomplish and got you so angry at it?

post #45 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92 View Post
99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.

 

I wouldn't say that. It's certainly more laziness than a lack of intelligence.

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post #46 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

What were you trying to do that Office couldn't accomplish and got you so angry at it?

Try to edit the HTML source in Outlook

Try to keep Word from pushing pictures to the next page when adding text

Try to align numbers and text in column in Excel

Try to keep Excel from removing leading zero in zip codes

Try to copy Access files across the network while the file is less than a few minutes old. Access Denied

Try to keep straight quotes in inches and feet, not curly quotes

Try to type fractions in an email without using actual fraction symbols

Try to search an email folder with more than 1000 emails

 

I'm sure there are workarounds but Office is a nuisance to work with 

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post #47 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post


Why will you want that when you can use google docs for FREE. and your files work across all platforms. iOS, android, windows, linux, mac. Its in the cloud with the option to save locally and real time collab.

To get me to buy office software it better come with free strippers cause google docs just everything the typical user would want

That may be - but it's the things that Google Docs does that the user DIDN'T ask for that are the problem.

I'm not giving Google access to any more of my life than necessary. And business documents? No way in he77.
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post #48 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92 View Post

It isn't that MS Office does anything vey well (it doesn't), it is that habitual users use it slavishly and are not smart enough to adapt to different software.

 

99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.

 

Just as a lot of people have problems with hardware, software or gadgets in their homes/workplaces, all too often it is the user that is at fault. Sadly, there are a lot of really stupid/slow people out there.

 

MS Office is the floppy-disk of today: people _think_ they need it and that nothing else can replace it. They are wrong. Years from now, they'll look back and see MS Office for the irrelevant tripe that it really is.

 

1,000% agree.  

 

Pages does everything any word processor needs to do but does it with just a few buttons and menu options.  

 

It works differently so you have to learn some new stuff at first (most are unwilling to do this), and it doesn't directly read and write Word documents so you have to decide to use it *instead* of Word (too scary for most users), and there will always be some dumbass over-the-top detail of a feature that is only used by one user out of a thousand that Pages won't have (users who think they need these won't give them up).  

 

It all comes down to the users and their unwillingness to change, to contemplate change, or to be brave enough to try anything new. It really has nothing to do with the relative merits of the tools.  Most users just don't assess things in a rational manner like that anyway, they just tell themselves a story that explains why they "can't" use Pages.  

post #49 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That's exactly why Office is here to stay. We also tried alternatives (both iWork and OpenOffice). While they were ok 95% of the time, the remaining 5% was a nightmare. "Close" isn't good enough for many people.

 

"Close"  only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades...  and dancing  :)

 

I am surprised that MS hasn't moved sooner to release Office apps on the iPad -- we're on the third iteration...

 

I suspect they could have an iOS edition similar/compatible to their Mac Office edition  --  and a more robust/integrated version for Windows 8 RT ARM (whatever) to match the Windows Office.

 

That way, they can cover all the bases...  if Windows tablets fail to [quickly] catch on (and they will) MS would still have an offering for the iPad market!

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post #50 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Maybe I'd like the contents of my documents to not be whored out for more "accurate" advertisements.

 

 

Mmmm... got me thinking'...

 

If Google is a pimp (and they are)  --  who are the Johns and the Hos?   :(

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post #51 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by erikvdo View Post


But, again, Apple makes their software to help sell their hardware. The reason that they make iTunes for Windows is to make the iPod/iPhone/iPad useable for Windows users. iCloud is the same. So, we shouldn't hold our breath waiting for the i apps to appear for Windows.

That and restricting the iPod to their software and their computers would have gotten them slammed with antitrust charges

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post #52 of 79

That iPad screen really looks like it was Photoshopped. I see JPEG artifacting well beyond the borders of the text, and the JPEG compression degradation in that area does not match the rest of the photo.

post #53 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Are you serious? iWorks is not iCloud compatible to start with

The iOS version has been since iCloud started.

And given that we are talking about an iOS version of Office . . .

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post #54 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 --  and a more robust/integrated version for Windows 8 RT ARM (whatever) to match the Windows Office.

That way, they can cover all the bases...  if Windows tablets fail to [quickly] catch on (and they will) MS would still have an offering for the iPad market!

I think you just nailed why this rumor is likely false. They will keep the software as a selling point for tablets using Metro or whatever, hoping all that businesses love Office will get them to buy said hardware and not iPads, Tabs etc

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post #55 of 79

If they make it for iOS they will be shooting their own tablets in the foot before they even launch. Or maybe they know they will bomb anyway......

post #56 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I wish Apple would provide one feature that is essential to me that only MS has. Using IE web browser, you can right click on a table in a web page and export it directly to Excel which is an absolutely huge feature if you use a lot of tabular data that has to be sorted and manipulated. It is next to impossible to do using Safari and Numbers by copying and pasting.

Select the table you want by clicking and dragging the curser.

 

Then try using "Paste Special" in Excel, and then paste as Unicode text. That works for me. I think you just have to do things a bit differently than if you are using IE. Also, you didn't mention which version of IE you were using. Version 6 is over the hill, and I don't know how different the current version is, but I know it is less quirky than the old V6, and more like the rest of the world's browsers.

 

I hope that works for you as well as it does for me. I've never tried using Numbers to drop in a table of data, but my hint above may get the job down for you.

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post #57 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Try to edit the HTML source in Outlook

Try to keep Word from pushing pictures to the next page when adding text

Try to align numbers and text in column in Excel

Try to keep Excel from removing leading zero in zip codes

Try to copy Access files across the network while the file is less than a few minutes old. Access Denied

Try to keep straight quotes in inches and feet, not curly quotes

Try to type fractions in an email without using actual fraction symbols

Try to search an email folder with more than 1000 emails

 

I'm sure there are workarounds but Office is a nuisance to work with 

I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.

 

Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page. 
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
 

As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.

 

There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.

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post #58 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quevar View Post

Agreed!  One step further is that I would love to see Apple release their API for Windows so code for Mac and iOS could run on Windows natively.  Not going to happen, but it would sure be easier than writing for different platforms.


Also, they should give out their hardware for free. Oo

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post #59 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I think for many of us, Office is thought of as Word, Excel, and PowerPoint as alternates to iWork. So, I won't address anything you wrote regarding Outlook and email.

 

Word will push pictures with text because the picture is locked to its position within the text, not locked to a position within the page. 
To align number and text in Excel, click on the top of the column and select which justification you want for that column.
To keep zip codes, as well as all other kinds of data looking right, go to the menu, FORMAT > Cells > Numbers and tell Excel what kind of number will be in which columns, rows, or cells.
To have straight quotation marks in Word documents: Go to Word > Preferences > Auto Correct > Auto correct as you type > uncheck “Replace straight quotation marks with smart quotation marks”. Excel is default straight quotation marks.
 

As some have complained here, Word is a very bloated word processor. It is also highly customizable to a specific person's kind of use. When I buy a new version of Word, I have to customize my toolbars and menus to my liking. I often learn a few new features in the process.

 

There is actually a way to add up feet and inches (or yards and inches) in Excel, but it does take some thinking to set up the spread sheet.


Thanks for saving me the time to reply.

 

But just the fact that it seems so basic to us and not to this guy is the problem with excel, and all office suites in general. A siri like approach is needed. Where i can just put in data and tell the computer what i want to do with it, and have it done.

post #60 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

iWork… 

 

Not a fan..especially when I have to use a PC at work.  

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post #61 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyram Gestan View Post

 

 

I like the way Apple does it better.  If you learn how Apple does it, it just works.  Then you don't miss "customizing toolbars and menus".  You just do it how Apple intended it to be done.  

 

After a while, you realize that Apple was right all along.

 

Ummm, yeah okay.

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post #62 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by stniuk View Post

If they make it for iOS they will be shooting their own tablets in the foot before they even launch. Or maybe they know they will bomb anyway......

Why, it won't be the full version of Office. Just another neutered Office app like the rest of them.

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post #63 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Only if they charge like $2.99 for it. Otherwise folks will go with Pages or one of the dozen Office clones that gets you all 3 programs for $9.99

 

Oh and it better launch with iCloud compatibility from day one and retina support etc. And be seriously bug checked up down left right and inside out. Because they are way way late to this game and anything that is missing or goes wrong will get them destroyed in the reviews and ratings. 

 

Pages is actually pretty good, my only complaint about the iOS version is the inability to use text boxes etc to really layout a page. They went with only supporting their word processing templates and it's limited and a tad annoying. I'm hoping they will add at least their basic page layout stuff even if they don't include things like auto flow between text boxes etc. 

 

Bullshit.  Pages is $9.99.  Word can be more IF it is 100% compatible with desktop Office, Sharepoint, etc.  

 

IMHO the only iWork tool better than the MS Office equivalent is Keynote.

 

Word/Excel/Powerpoint can easily be $24.99 apps done correctly.

 

I have many of the Office clones on the iPad.  They all suck in some way or another, even QuickOffice.  So I'd rather spend $75 on the Official MS Office HD suite on the iPad if it works well within my enterprise environment.  I certainly have quite a bit invested in productivity apps already so for business folks $$$ isn't that big an issue.

 

The problem is that MS Office Mobile is currently only a so-so product...limited by the WP7 size.  On the iPad it could be something great but that remains to be seen.

post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHiavelli92 View Post

99.999% of users who say Pages (or whatever) can't do what MS Word can do, really mean that they don't have the intelligence to find out how to use the other software properly.

 

Okay Mr Genius.  Answer me this:

 

How do I send native Keynote or Pages files to my co-workers for editing with the reasonable expectation that they can open them on their Windows machines or even view the document?

 

You can't.  There's not even a Keynote viewer on Windows.  Something they should have fixed YEARS ago.  If I can't send a Keynote presentation around or use it at a conference that only has Windows boxes attached to their projectors then it's simply not viable an alternative no matter how great it is.

post #65 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
Okay Mr Genius.  Answer me this:

 

How do I send native Keynote or Pages files to my co-workers for editing with the reasonable expectation that they can open them on their Windows machines or even view the document?

 

You can't.

 

By exporting as a Word or PowerPoint file. By exporting as a PDF or QuickTime movie if you don't need them to edit it.

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post #66 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Okay Mr Genius.  Answer me this:

 

How do I send native Keynote or Pages files to my co-workers for editing with the reasonable expectation that they can open them on their Windows machines or even view the document?

 

You can't.  There's not even a Keynote viewer on Windows.  Something they should have fixed YEARS ago.  If I can't send a Keynote presentation around or use it at a conference that only has Windows boxes attached to their projectors then it's simply not viable an alternative no matter how great it is.

A Keynote viewer for Windows would not have been of use for editing though. The solution then seems to be exporting to ppt, as Tallest Skil suggested.

post #67 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

By exporting as a Word or PowerPoint file. By exporting as a PDF or QuickTime movie if you don't need them to edit it.

 

This isn't a native file and loses formatting information.  You can't round trip from Keynote and Powerpoint and get the same Keynote presentation back.

post #68 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

A Keynote viewer for Windows would not have been of use for editing though. The solution then seems to be exporting to ppt, as Tallest Skil suggested.

 

A keynote viewer for Windows means I can send a Keynote file to anyone using windows and they can see the presentation as intended.  Not as a quicktime movie or a PDF file sans animations.

post #69 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

A keynote viewer for Windows means I can send a Keynote file to anyone using windows and they can see the presentation as intended.  Not as a quicktime movie or a PDF file sans animations.

 

 

I was under the impression you wanted the file to be editable by your co-workers. A viewer wouldn't provide that option.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Okay Mr Genius.  Answer me this:

 

How do I send native Keynote or Pages files to my co-workers for editing with the reasonable expectation that they can open them on their Windows machines or even view the document?

 

You can't.  There's not even a Keynote viewer on Windows.  Something they should have fixed YEARS ago.  If I can't send a Keynote presentation around or use it at a conference that only has Windows boxes attached to their projectors then it's simply not viable an alternative no matter how great it is.

post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
A keynote viewer for Windows means I can send a Keynote file to anyone using windows and they can see the presentation as intended.

 

Which is what the QuickTime movie is… I fail to see the problem here.

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post #71 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Which is what the QuickTime movie is… I fail to see the problem here.

 

You fail to see the problem because you've never tried to give a keynote presentation at a facility that supported only windows.  Or if your laptop breaks and the place you're giving the presentation only has windows machines.  A powerpoint user with their presentation on a USB stick is still in business.  A keynote user is dead in the water.

 

A quicktime movie is not nearly the same as being able to give the presentation in keynote.  It's a movie, not a presentation.  An example is that I might have a hyperlink to backup slides on a page.  If asked a detailed question I can quickly navigate to those slides and back.  

 

Or something as simple as quickly backing up a few slides to answer a question.  Try that in whatever is playing your quicktime movie on windows.

 

Giving a presentation with your own hardware is all very good and many times this can be accommodated.   Sometimes not so much.

 

A fully functional keynote viewer on Windows would make Keynote a far better powerpoint replacement.  It's usually possible to ask folks to download some software for you to have no the machine...especially given the popularity of macs.

post #72 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I was under the impression you wanted the file to be editable by your co-workers. A viewer wouldn't provide that option.

 

He was stating that folks that choose MS Office over iWork was stupid/lazy/whatever because you can do everything necessary in iWork.  So I provided the key limitation of iWork...you can only use it on a Mac and most of the world still runs Windows.

 

If you're going to export to word or powerpoint anyway you might as well stay with MS Office in the first place.  Which is primarily why I finally gave up on Keynote.  My Keynote presentations looked great in Keynote and like ass in Powerpoint.  I'm not big on fancy transitions or animations but I liked the templates I had purchased and those simply didn't translate will into PPT.  I could dumb them down to work in PPT but then...what's the point in staying with Keynote?

post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

He was stating that folks that choose MS Office over iWork was stupid/lazy/whatever because you can do everything necessary in iWork.  So I provided the key limitation of iWork...you can only use it on a Mac and most of the world still runs Windows.

 

If you're going to export to word or powerpoint anyway you might as well stay with MS Office in the first place.  Which is primarily why I finally gave up on Keynote.  My Keynote presentations looked great in Keynote and like ass in Powerpoint.  I'm not big on fancy transitions or animations but I liked the templates I had purchased and those simply didn't translate will into PPT.  I could dumb them down to work in PPT but then...what's the point in staying with Keynote?

 

I see your point.

 

A Keynote viewer for Windows will not sell more Apple hardware though. Apple doesn't have a strong incentive to provide cross-platform compatibility.

post #74 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
You fail to see the problem because you've never tried to give a keynote presentation at a facility that supported only windows

 

So use a converter to make an MKV version to take along with you.

 

Quote:

A quicktime movie is not nearly the same as being able to give the presentation in keynote.  It's a movie, not a presentation.

 

No, it's a presentation.

 

Quote:

An example is that I might have a hyperlink to backup slides on a page.  If asked a detailed question I can quickly navigate to those slides and back.

 

Which you can do with the QuickTime option.

 

Quote:
Or something as simple as quickly backing up a few slides to answer a question.  Try that in whatever is playing your quicktime movie on windows.

 

QuickTime lets you step through slides, and you can always just drag the time bar backward in another player.

 

It's pretty evident you've never tried this. 

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post #75 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

 

I see your point.

 

A Keynote viewer for Windows will not sell more Apple hardware though. Apple doesn't have a strong incentive to provide cross-platform compatibility.

 

Porting iWork or iLife to Windows will not sell more Apple hardware agreed.  

 

Having more Keynote presentations used regularly might since you can only create Keynote presentations on a Mac (or an iPad).  I used to get asked "Nice presentation, how do I do that?" which got the response "Step 1: Buy a mac, Step 2: buy iWork..."

 

It's not all that important unless Apple has a hankering for more enterprise presence...or education which is another place that Powerpoint has dominance.  My kid does Powerpoint presentations even through his computer lab is all 27" iMacs...heck, you can't even view a Keynote presentation on the Mac without iWork.  I guess it requires too much Quartz to make work well on a PC but geez, at least let me send a .key file to folks on OSX without iWork and let them view it without editing capabilities.

 

I suppose I can ask that they log into iWork.com to bring up the presentation...sketchy though.

post #76 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So use a converter to make an MKV version to take along with you.

 

No, it's a presentation.

 

Which you can do with the QuickTime option.

 

QuickTime lets you step through slides, and you can always just drag the time bar backward in another player.

 

It's pretty evident you've never tried this. 

 

I have.  Have you?  It simply doesn't work as well and many if not most times you can't do it from the clicker.  How many presentations do you give a month?  Do you even use Keynote?  And the hyperlink option in the QT export was buggy in the past...and when I was using it you got three options:  manual advance (pauses at each slide), timed slides or hyperlinks (but only hyperlinks worked).  

 

Often what you want is a nice clean presentation with good flow but the ability to set clickable links in the slide just in case you need to zip down into the weeds for a particular topic for a particular audience.

 

It's not a presentation.  It's a movie.  And for high quality it was a feaking huge movie.  Don't tell me what the hell my experience has been.

 

It's not nearly the same as giving the presentation in Keynote which you would know if you actually had to do it on a regular basis.

post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
It's not nearly the same as giving the presentation in Keynote which you would know if you actually had to do it on a regular basis.

 

Of course not. But it's what you have to deal with when you don't take your own hardware.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Of course not. But it's what you have to deal with when you don't take your own hardware.

 

Not in comparison to PowerPoint.  You can go anywhere in the business/edu world and reasonably expect that the pc connected to a projector or HDTV has MS Office sitting on it.

post #79 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Of course not. But it's what you have to deal with when you don't take your own hardware.

 

You'd be surprised how many people go to give talks with their MacBooks and forget the VGA adapter. Many projectors are still only equipped with a VGA input.

 

If everyone was using only Apple products (Keynotes, Apple hardware) then everything would just work. It's other people's preferences for diverse products that destroy compatibility and can render an expensive Apple product useless in specific situations.

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