or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › Genius Bar › Samsung argues 4G Galaxy Tab not in direct competition with Apple's 3G iPad 2
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung argues 4G Galaxy Tab not in direct competition with Apple's 3G iPad 2 - Page 2

post #41 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Yep!
 

 

Not always

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #42 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

This is where Android shines, the user has the power, not the company. Samsung just released the source code for my Galaxy note for instance, I can now do with my phone as I please, anything that I dream of and is possible of course. They even shipped the thing with a unlocked boot loader, that's incredible. What's even more fantastic is, even though Samsung claims that installing another version of Android will void your warranty, they have replaced my Note twice for bricking it. My fault, I even told the girl from their customer service department it was my fault, she just told me that she will send out a box, to put the Note in it and they will have it back to me in 5 working days.

 

 

 

Sounds wonderful, I like my things to just work, "bricking" them and doing without them for more than ten days isn't part of that.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #43 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

 

This is where Android shines, the user has the power, not the company. Samsung just released the source code for my Galaxy note for instance, I can now do with my phone as I please, anything that I dream of and is possible of course. They even shipped the thing with a unlocked boot loader, that's incredible. What's even more fantastic is, even though Samsung claims that installing another version of Android will void your warranty, they have replaced my Note twice for bricking it. My fault, I even told the girl from their customer service department it was my fault, she just told me that she will send out a box, to put the Note in it and they will have it back to me in 5 working days.

 

 

That is not a selling point for the bulk of the market. This is precisely why Apple with at most 3 devices, and all under one roof, can round up around 30% of the market, while Samsung needs to sell everything they've got, from the good, the bad, to the downright ugly, to achieve barely more than ownership of half the market. Never mind the other Android vendors.

 

For Joe Average, "customization", "boot loaders", ROMS, and all that other nonsense is completely trumped by ease of use, and breadth and depth of the Apple ecosystem. Given *choice*, *ability* (to pay) and *availability*, consumers are looking for Apple gear. All the customization and "freedom" and openness in the world can't cover up an interface that looks and works like garbage. Google *does not* have the basics of a touch interface mastered. This is and has always been the major embarrassment when it comes to Android. They didn't bother to perfect the basics. So even the highest-end Android smartphone looks and feels and performs like a science fair project. There's no polish. This is also why it just fails epically in the tablet space. All those problems that Android users force themselves to live with in the name of "freedom" become magnified and intensified on a tablet to the point that it just becomes unbearable. 

 

If you don't build your house on a solid foundation it'll start falling apart. 

post #44 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

"Biggest smartphone vendor in the world"?  Sounds like something a twelve year old would say to me.  If you don't see it though, nevermind.  

 

The very fact that you went on this long back and forth with the other person makes you at least halfway to blame for the argument anyway.  If an adult really is arguing with a twelve year old, the last thing they do is treat them like an equal in the argument and argue back and forth like that.  

 

The whole thing came across to me as if two little boys were trying to best each other in the playground.  The argument has already been over-stated and over-analysed, anyway. The subject matter is hardly even worth the time I'm spending writing this.  

lol you think I made this up? I was stating a fact. Google is your friend... http://bit.ly/KOhh3I

 

Does this mean you are going to write to all the websites that said the same thing to tell them they are acting like children? The point I was trying to make is that this ban is hardly to going to seriously damage a company the size of Samsung. If you think that is acting like a child then thats your issue.


Edited by fredaroony - 5/27/12 at 3:06pm
post #45 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

 

 

It sure as sh*t happened to the "biggest software vendor in the world." But a little differently. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

Yeah and how much actual harm came to Microsoft from this? They seem to going ok.


Edited by fredaroony - 5/27/12 at 3:03pm
post #46 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

 

Not always

However there are plenty of autos with gull wing doors. It is so easy to make a few tweaks to a design to skirt around any patents, it just isn't worth pursuing. In the example you provided it is a slightly different scenario since the replica makers were exactly copying an out of date classic in every detail. If Samsung were copying an Apple I with all of the related packaging and trying sell it to people who were attempting to impress others as it was an original worth a million dollars, then that would be a valid comparison. Mercedes Benz does nothing about Hyundai copying the look and feel of their current designs.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #47 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Same thing will happen to Samsung as the last two previous largest smartphone vendors in the world... Remember Nokia and Rim?

Possible but not because this. Nokia and Rim failed because they didn't innovate or at a minimum, keep up the times.

post #48 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

However there are plenty of autos with gull wing doors. It is so easy to make a few tweaks to a design to skirt around any patents, it just isn't worth pursuing. In the example you provided it is a slightly different scenario since the replica makers were exactly copying an out of date classic in every detail. If Samsung were copying an Apple I with all of the related packaging and trying sell it to people who were attempting to impress people as it was an original worth a million dollars, then that would be a valid comparison. Mercedes Benz does nothing about Hyundai copying the look and feel of their current designs.

 

The primary reason I used that example of a court issued decision based on design patents, was primarily to show that much to the chagrin of various posters Apple did not pioneer suing over the copying of registered designs, that it has been part of various industries for many years.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #49 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm View Post

 

the biggest smart vendor in the world by using someone elses operating system and copying someone elses design. Every phone in which they have used they're own ideas has sucked. I have no idea what people like Android cause imo that sucks too

Android is not a copy of iOS. Design? Really? Since when is a flat rectangle a unique design? Your comments might have more merit if you used punctuation and capitalization in your sentences.

post #50 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Android is not a copy of iOS. Design? Really? Since when is a flat rectangle a unique design?

I love the way the Apple haters always manage to distort things and miss the real facts of the matter.

In reality, the Samsung Tab was so close to the iPad that Samsung's own attorney couldn't tell the difference. Are you saying that was accidental? Or perhaps you're saying it would have been impossible for Samsung to make it distinguishable?
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #51 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Android is not a copy of iOS.

 

Maybe not directly, but without iOS it wouldn't exist. Google have never been very good at coming up with new ideas, just copying others, usually badly. My opinion of why Android is so popular is because telephone companies push it. Cheaper phones, less subsidy. People get iPhones cause they want one. Then spend money at the app store and use it frequently for things other than phone calls. Most people get Android cause it was the cheapest plan and use it as a phone.

post #52 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm View Post

Maybe not directly, but without iOS it wouldn't exist. Google have never been very good at coming up with new ideas, just copying others, usually badly. My opinion of why Android is so popular is because telephone companies push it. Cheaper phones, less subsidy. People get iPhones cause they want one. Then spend money at the app store and use it frequently for things other than phone calls. Most people get Android cause it was the cheapest plan and use it as a phone.

People buy Android phones because they do what they need them to do... they make phone calls, can send and receive text messages, take pictures, and Facebook. And maybe the odd app or game.

It's the same sorta thing that happened with Windows... the world's most-used desktop operating system.

Most people just boot into Windows and open a browser for Facebook. It doesn't really matter that Windows has the most programs available, or any of the other benefits Windows has over other OSes.

People just use it for the bare minimum of tasks... and there's nothing wrong with that. The term "good enough" comes to mind.
post #53 of 121

So why isn't Apple suing HP?

 

spectre_vs_air.png

Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
post #54 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
So why isn't Apple suing HP?

 

Wrong model.

post #55 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

People buy Android phones because they do what they need them to do... they make phone calls, can send and receive text messages, take pictures, and Facebook. And maybe the odd app or game.
It's the same sorta thing that happened with Windows... the world's most-used desktop operating system.
Most people just boot into Windows and open a browser for Facebook. It doesn't really matter that Windows has the most programs available, or any of the other benefits Windows has over other OSes.
People just use it for the bare minimum of tasks... and there's nothing wrong with that. The term "good enough" comes to mind.

Do you have any data to back up your assumptions? Any?

Fun fact, your opinion does not equate to fact.
post #56 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I love the way the Apple haters always manage to distort things and miss the real facts of the matter.
In reality, the Samsung Tab was so close to the iPad that Samsung's own attorney couldn't tell the difference. Are you saying that was accidental? Or perhaps you're saying it would have been impossible for Samsung to make it distinguishable?


That is because 2 pieces of glass, approximately same size, always look alike. It is not that Samsung tablet doesn't look like iPad - it does; it is that such basic, minimalistic design shouldn't be patent-able. When you look at iPad from the front, there isn't much distinction there - save for home button (which Samsung doesn't have).

 

In my mind, question is: does Apple has exclusive rights on creating touchscreen tablet, or does it not. If not, then Apple should not have exclusive rights on flat glass surface. Major point of touchscreen device is that controls are "soft" - they appear on screen, as required; putting extra buttons only for sake of differentiation is silly at best. Or making it thicker than current technology actually demands. Or pretty much anything else Apple sarcastically recommended Samsung to do, some time ago, in order to differentiate.

post #57 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm View Post

Maybe not directly, but without iOS it wouldn't exist. Google have never been very good at coming up with new ideas, just copying others, usually badly. My opinion of why Android is so popular is because telephone companies push it. Cheaper phones, less subsidy. People get iPhones cause they want one. Then spend money at the app store and use it frequently for things other than phone calls. Most people get Android cause it was the cheapest plan and use it as a phone.

Yet the Galaxy Note sold 5 million in 5 months at $249, with a 5.4 screen and.........a stylus, oh the horror. Your "assumptions" are just that.
post #58 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Do you have any data to back up your assumptions? Any?

Fun fact, your opinion does not equate to fact.

What data are you referring to?

Do people buy smartphones for a variety of reasons?

I'm pretty sure people don't buy Android phones for the vast Android app ecosystem. So that must mean they buy Android phones to handle the normal tasks of phone calls, text messages and Facebook.

And as for Windows... when someone buys "a computer" chances are it's a Windows machine. And a lot of people use a computer for nothing more that email and Facebook.

Oh and you haven't provided any data either...
post #59 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGeminiPA View Post

Considering how much Samsung copies Apple, did they totally miss the fact that the new iPad can be had with 4G LTE? Are they saying their tablet can only barely compete with last year's iPad?

 

No they didn't miss it. This suit was filed when the iPad 2 was the iPad released. The new iPad hasn't been added to the case so what it can do is moot. 

 

That said, a difference in cellular tech really isn't a difference at all. Which is why that argument won't likely fly in the end. And even if by some weird chance it does fly Apple will just file a motion to have the new iPad added to the suit or file a new suit just to irritate Samsung a bit more

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #60 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGJ View Post

This doesn't have much to do with this story, but I was standing in HMV by the 'Tablet' section and there were these kids trying out some Samsung and Sony tablets. All I heard were frustrated groans and 'this iPad is shit!'

 

Made my day.

 

shouldn't make your day that they are thinking of all tablets as iPads. What should make your day is to hear them say they would rather have an iPad. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

Reply
post #61 of 121
"They have golden arcs, we have golden arcs... The are McDONNALD'S, we are McDOWELL'S"
I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.
Reply
I've accomplished my childhood's dream: My job consists mainly of playing with toys all day long.
Reply
post #62 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wrong model.
No it ain't.
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
Reply
post #63 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


Yet the Galaxy Note sold 5 million in 5 months at $249, with a 5.4 screen and.........a stylus, oh the horror. Your "assumptions" are just that.

 

your "assumption" that a clearly stated "opinion" is an "assumption" goes to show what your "opinion" is worth.

Everyone I know with an Android tablet or phone are either Apple haters or went the cheap option and regret it.

Im looking forward to a larger screen on the next iPhone but 5.4 inch is ridiculous. I "assume" theres quite a few people who regret the purchase

post #64 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm View Post

 

...My opinion of why Android is so popular is because telephone companies push it. Cheaper phones, less subsidy. ..

How do you define "pushing'? In my opinion giving a higher subsidy is pushing the phone (that would be the iPhone in the US).

post #65 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


That is because 2 pieces of glass, approximately same size, always look alike. It is not that Samsung tablet doesn't look like iPad - it does; it is that such basic, minimalistic design shouldn't be patent-able. When you look at iPad from the front, there isn't much distinction there - save for home button (which Samsung doesn't have).

In my mind, question is: does Apple has exclusive rights on creating touchscreen tablet, or does it not. If not, then Apple should not have exclusive rights on flat glass surface. Major point of touchscreen device is that controls are "soft" - they appear on screen, as required; putting extra buttons only for sake of differentiation is silly at best. Or making it thicker than current technology actually demands. Or pretty much anything else Apple sarcastically recommended Samsung to do, some time ago, in order to differentiate.

That's BS and exactly the kind of rationalization I was referring to. Before, it was 'Apple can't own a rectangle' and now it's "2 pieces if glass always look alike". There are many, many ways to make a tablet - as seen by the wide variety before Apple released the iPad. There's no rational reason why the Tab is so similar to the iPad that even Samsung's lawyers couldn't tell the difference - except blatant copying.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #66 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm View Post

your "assumption" that a clearly stated "opinion" is an "assumption" goes to show what your "opinion" is worth.
Everyone I know with an Android tablet or phone are either Apple haters or went the cheap option and regret it.
Im looking forward to a larger screen on the next iPhone but 5.4 inch is ridiculous. I "assume" theres quite a few people who regret the purchase

Your ignorance is evident. Have fun using things because of what other people say about them. The world needs followers, not everyone can lead.
post #67 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's BS and exactly the kind of rationalization I was referring to. Before, it was 'Apple can't own a rectangle' and now it's "2 pieces if glass always look alike". There are many, many ways to make a tablet - as seen by the wide variety before Apple released the iPad. There's no rational reason why the Tab is so similar to the iPad that even Samsung's lawyers couldn't tell the difference - except blatant copying.

I love the lawyer thing you continue to bring up. At the distance they observed I could hold up a picture frame with a black sheet of paper and they wouldn't be able to tell. As soon as they were turned on the story was a little different. Bottom line, NOTHING is going to happen. NOTHING has happened. After months and months of court battles, Samsung will be on the Tab 3 Apple will sue again, then after months and months of litigation Samsung will be on the Tab 4 ect, ect, ect.
post #68 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

How do you define "pushing'? In my opinion giving a higher subsidy is pushing the phone (that would be the iPhone in the US).

Shhhhhhh, he thinks his opinion is fact.
post #69 of 121

The only ads you see for Apple products in Australia are Apple ads. HTC, Motorola and Samsung phones are all on the ads by telephone companies. The place I used to work were upgrading their phones and were told Android phones far better and more powerful than iPhones and were given the whole spill on cpu/memory ect. That confused them so they called me, I told them to use a Android phone before buying one, they ended getting iPhones.

post #70 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


Your ignorance is evident. Have fun using things because of what other people say about them. The world needs followers, not everyone can lead.

I have used Android, hence the reason I know its crap although arguing with you seems a bit pointless.

post #71 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
No it ain't.

 

Given that it looks far less like a rip-off the MacBook Pro than the one I posted, it's the wrong one to sue about, at least. lol.gif

post #72 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I love the lawyer thing you continue to bring up. At the distance they observed I could hold up a picture frame with a black sheet of paper and they wouldn't be able to tell. As soon as they were turned on the story was a little different. Bottom line, NOTHING is going to happen. NOTHING has happened. After months and months of court battles, Samsung will be on the Tab 3 Apple will sue again, then after months and months of litigation Samsung will be on the Tab 4 ect, ect, ect.

And I love your rationalization. It was 10 feet - not some huge distance.

I'm not talking about the legal matters - they will go on for years, although Apple just won a major battle at the appeals level.

The point is that any rational person can look at the Tab, the iPad, and all the tablets that preceded the iPad and see that the Tab was an intentional, blatant attempt to copy the iPad as much as possible.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #73 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

For Joe Average, "customization", "boot loaders", ROMS, and all that other nonsense is completely trumped by ease of use, and breadth and depth of the Apple ecosystem. Given *choice*, *ability* (to pay) and *availability*, consumers are looking for Apple gear.

Today's iPhone reported that over 1.2 million iOS users have jailbroken their devices. So, apparently, a not insignificant number of iOS users want to customize their devce as well. Could we please stop the stereotyping?

http://www.todaysiphone.com/2012/05/more-than-1-2-million-ios-devices-jailbroken-using-absinthe-2-0/
post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyram Gestan View Post

 

 

I agree with this, but I am struck with how well Android phones are selling.  They sell in huge numbers.

 

How can this be explained, given that what you say is true?

 

 

 

Very simple. 

 

Universally license (it's free, anyway), flood the market, whore your OS out to anyone who can slam together a box, offer a ton of of models at all sorts of price points (it amounts to what, hundreds? taking all Android phones into account), and so on. And in countries without carrier subsidies, Android phones are cheaper by far.

 

Further, Apple doesn't cater to the "I just want a cheap, simple phone" crowd. The Apple experience *must* be the same across the board. And the 3GS is only a single model. 

 

What are the classic barriers in retail for the highest level of User Experience? Price. Availability. And very slim, very focused product lineups. This can be conducive to record sales, but it is not optimal for dominant market share. The iPhone is not an iPod. 

 

It's the classic Microsoftian-OEM business model that supports Android. Great for quick, inflated market share, lousy for the end-to-end experience.

 

For example, Windows sells in huge numbers as well, thanks to the business model just mentioned. But would you trade in your Mac running OS X for a $500 Dell with some version of Windows on it? Probably not. But don't forget also, that the cost of entry into the Mac end of the Apple ecosystem (not including the Mini) is at least $1000. There are plenty of folks who probably want Macs, but the bottom end of the retail pyramid is much, much wider than the top. Apple doesn't compete, nor wants to compete in certain spaces. 

 

So all of these considerations play into the reasons for the market share that Android smartphones enjoy today. 

post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post

Today's iPhone reported that over 1.2 million iOS users have jailbroken their devices. So, apparently, a not insignificant number of iOS users want to customize their devce as well. Could we please stop the stereotyping?
http://www.todaysiphone.com/2012/05/more-than-1-2-million-ios-devices-jailbroken-using-absinthe-2-0/

Even if you accept those numbers (which I am very skeptical of), that's well under 1% of iPhones - hardly a very impressive number.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #76 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


Yet the Galaxy Note sold 5 million in 5 months at $249, with a 5.4 screen and.........a stylus, oh the horror. Your "assumptions" are just that.

Provide actuals facts, by way of a cite/evidence (and not for "shipped units" or some bogus estimates put out by consulting firms, please). Otherwise, zip it.

post #77 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekmorr View Post


Today's iPhone reported that over 1.2 million iOS users have jailbroken their devices. So, apparently, a not insignificant number of iOS users want to customize their devce as well. Could we please stop the stereotyping?
http://www.todaysiphone.com/2012/05/more-than-1-2-million-ios-devices-jailbroken-using-absinthe-2-0/

 

That isn't a lot. At all. 

post #78 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyram Gestan View Post

 

 

I agree with this, but I am struck with how well Android phones are selling.  They sell in huge numbers.

 

How can this be explained, given that what you say is true?

First of all, we don't have any actual sales numbers put out by even a single Android manufacturer, so it's all guesstimates on everyone's part.

 

Second, it is likely that their numbers are high because of their very large share in China and India. That's easily explained: The iPhone is still not on China's largest carrier, and India's telecom backbone is still relatively primitive for data. I am willing to bet that Android's profits are pretty lousy in those markets. But we'll never really know, since these guys don't reveal any segment data (for a product that they claim is huge).

post #79 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

That isn't a lot. At all. 

Agreed. It's probably less than 1%.

post #80 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
First of all, we don't have any actual sales numbers put out by even a single Android manufacturer, so it's all guesstimates on everyone's part. But we'll never really know, since these guys don't reveal any segment data (for a product that they claim is huge).

 

But, but… a million activations a day!

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Genius Bar
AppleInsider › Forums › General › Genius Bar › Samsung argues 4G Galaxy Tab not in direct competition with Apple's 3G iPad 2