Facebook reportedly hiring former Apple iPhone engineers for phone project - Page 2

So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android.  Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbyrn 
So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android.  Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?

Nah, code named "Douse" because "we hope to take away from the Amazon marketshare and see where we go from there".

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstrosity 

 

Absolutely. The only reason Facebook (and the rest) "whore" out users is because that is the main method of generating income. Whereas, if Apple were to ever create a proper social network, they wouldn't need to whore out the users, it would exist ultimately to sell more hardware.

As I have already stated, Apple has a social network.  Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network.  Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in.  We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.  

The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions.  For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API.  The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

 

As I have already stated, Apple has a social network.  Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network.  Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in.  We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.  

 

The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions.  For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API.  The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.

While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network."  Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example.  What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary?  Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology).  I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area.  Not saying they should, just saying they don't.  With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college.  With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network.  With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am.  Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?

Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business.  Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by markbyrn 

So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android.  Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?

FacePhone

Quote:

Originally Posted by island hermit 
FacePhone

The Zucker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

... Apple does have a social network although we can discuss whether or not "wildly popular" is a valid description.

 

The point of creating a social network isn't to "whore out your users," that is the revenue model (for many social networks) although the difference is functionally indistinguishable to consumers.  ...

I think we mostly agree but there is a lot of vagueness as to what a "social network" is being defined as here.  I would agree that iCloud users or MobileMe before them are sort of a social network, but on the other hand all the social networks we've seen lately that are blatantly referred to as such by the media and the users, are quite completely different from what Apple is doing.  That's why I like what Apple is doing.  

If you sign up for iCloud to sync your documents, are you really "joining a social network" in the same sense as joining Facebook or Google+ signing up for MySpace in the past?  I'm not so sure that's really an accurate description even though both are networks of users that have at least some "social" tools available to them.

Google in particular spends a lot of time and energy trying to purposely trick users, who "joined" Google only in the sense that they signed up for email or document sharing like MobileMe/iCloud ... into joining Google plus as well.  So it seems that they at least differentiate between these two types of users.  Those that just wanted one of the free services and those who want to join the "Google community."

I completely disagree with any attempts to pretend that social networks don't "whore out their users" however.  It is as you say their main revenue model.  

There is a fine difference between "users" and "customers" that people don't always appreciate.  Google's users are the people that sign up for Google plus, Google's customers however are the advertisers.  The same goes for every classic "social network" I've ever heard of.  

Social networks "whore out their users," because their users are not their customers.  

Apple's users on the other hand, are also it's customers.  It provides service to these customers, some of these have a social component, but until they start selling us down the river like Google and Facebook, I don't think they can be called a "social network."  

It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by malax 

 

While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network."  Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example.  What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary?  Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology).  I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area.  Not saying they should, just saying they don't.  With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college.  With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network.  With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am.  Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?

 

Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business.  Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.

Where is that key ingredient in Twitter, I must have missed the "friends of friends" discovery feature.  Apple has a different revenue model and customer relationship.  Social networks have existed since the introduction of modern man, social networking services simply redefined the meaning of social network.  The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust.  Invasive social networks have a lifecycle but a persistent, ubiquitous, non-invasive social network doesn't necessarily have a lifecycle since social networking is an invisible feature of a completely different workflow.

An interesting factor to consider is longevity.  Once the novelty of social networking disappears, only advertisements and social discoverability and sharing are left with the invasion of privacy concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankleskater 

 

Facebook and Apple should patch up their differences so that Ping becomes integrated into FB, and FB becomes integrated into iOS.

No, no, no, no...I absolutely do not want Facecrap integrated into my phone. I don't like it and never will. I can understand Twitter, but not Facebook. Facebook is too intrusive for my liking. 

I do like the idea of Apple integrating their own social network into their phones. In someways, they're already starting with messages. They should continue to build upon that. The issue they'd run into though is trying to get users to use it if they were to develop something. Making one is easy, getting people to use it is the hard part. Even though Facebook sucks and people don't like it, they still use it. If Apple could create a paradigm shift in the social network that would be huge for them. 

I think they should buy Twitter to be honest. They already have a backbone and good entrance into this area. I think Apple could improve upon it, though they'd most likely only use it in their own products. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gazoobee 

It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network. 

Agreed.  I think there will eventually be pushback against this model.  Facebook has extremely low customer satisfaction.

This is why I think Apple hasn't created an explicit social network and instead relies upon implicit social networking (FaceTime, Game Center, iMessage, iTunes, Ping, etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by malax 

 

While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network."  Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example.  What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary?  Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology).  I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area.  Not saying they should, just saying they don't.  With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college.  With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network.  With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am.  Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?

 

Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business.  Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

.  The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust...

Sure but Apple could implement "friends of friends" differently, the problem with Facebook is that they almost force people to share as much as possible. Whereas, an Apple take on it would allow simple opt out, or rather even, opt-in.

That, I believe, is key here. Opt-in rather than a hidden and constantly changing opt-out (that often doesn't even opt-out properly).

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkdrop1 

too little too late.

 

I predict epic fail.

 

Mimicking Google's failed attempt at ubiquity via social engineering won't lead to any success.

 

Imagine a phone that tracks your every text and voice message as a post on facespook.  Stupid.

 

F
 

What do you think Google/Android does?

They already mine your email for marketing info via Gmail.

They already mine your voice mail, texts, who you are calling via Google Voice.

They are already tracking your location with Android

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh 

Who would want to buy a Facebook phone?! Does not compute.

Facebook phone could make sense in theory:

Contacts = Friend list

Apps = Facebook apps

Messages = Facebook messages

Calendar = Facebook events

Video Calls = Skype

Notifications Center = triggered by messages, news feeds, wall posts, friend status changes, etc

I can imagine for people who literally live their lives in FB (having all friends and relatives signed up too, constantly updating their status and posting pictures of themselves or their puppies) this could be really convenient.

Disclaimer 1: I do not have FB account except the fake one for app development.

Disclaimer 2: The day iPhone has integration with Facebook I will stop buying the iPhone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason98 
Disclaimer 2: The day iPhone has integration with Facebook I will stop buying the iPhone.

Yeah, because you're certainly forced to use that… 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

Yeah, because you're certainly forced to use that… 

What about a Facebook integrated iPhone with a 4.5" screen.

j/k

Quote:

Originally Posted by island hermit 
What about a Facebook integrated iPhone with a 4.5" screen.

 You can just ignore that extra inch of screen.

What kind of a retard would want a Facebook phone?

That's all people need, yet another phone, as if there aren't hundreds to choose between already in the crowded market place, mostly filled with junky Android phones.

And even better, a facebook phone, where you will probably get raped up the ass, and have all of your info stolen, by an overvalued company that relies on advertising for it's revenue.

What about all of the suckers who got zuckered in to buying that lame FB stock recently? These naive, foolish and greedy people got what they deserved. Simple math is apparently way too complicated for those zuckers. Talk about an over valued company. I'm glad to see the stock crashing down. A fair price for FB is around $10. Maybe I'd even buy a few shares myself, if it drops down to that price.

Facebook is just a website. Websites come and go. I imagine that the facebook phone will be a third rate product, just like the Amazon Kindle Fire. A product made by a company that has zero experience in ever making any hardware. The probability is extremely high that the facebook phone will be complete fucking crap. And that is my two cents.

A facebook phone is the last thing we need. Zuckerberg doesn't seem to realize that he's lost the high school crowd to Twitter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 

Preferable to a phone that sends all your data to Google, I suppose.
 

The phone idea is just in case this "facebook" thing doesn't work out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apple ][ 

What kind of a retard would want a Facebook phone?

 

Quite a few million at a guess. Remember, the whole world is chock full of retards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by monstrosity 

 

Quite a few million at a guess. Remember, the whole world is chock full of retards.

If we define a retard as being one of Facebook's DAU, then there are 526 million of them:

http://andrewchenblog.com/2012/05/16/quora-has-facebooks-daumau-always-been-50/

Quote:

Originally Posted by WelshDog 

I'm thinking the shareholders won't be liking this news all that much.

They might not like it, and the board of directors might not like it, but the Zuk owns 57% of the company and can do anything he wants, no matter how stupid. 

Actually, if you realize that most of the "free" Android phone users use the phone to talk, text and check Facebook, it might seem that Zuk has a good idea here, but that segment is anything but a good spending demographic. Worker bees are more discriminating and have cash and a life outside of Facebook. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shogun 

Is it so hard to understand that FB sees itself as a new OS? Of course they want their own phone. And on their phone FaceBook won't be an app. Apps will run in Facebook. You'll make calls in Facebook. Your friends are your contacts. You'll take photos IN Facebook. Your photo stream will be Facebook. Your music will be IN Facebook. Of course they want their own phone. And they'll probably give it away.
By the way, THAT'S how you make money in mobile. Control all the info, give away the hardware. Drop in ads as "features" throughout. Is it genius? No, it's obvious, really. It's what they have to become to be successful long term.
I'd say they better get cracking. I give them less than a year to make this work. Otherwise all inertia will be working against them. If they fail, I see Apple buying them for a song - maybe - in 2014 or 2015.

Yes a FB phone would allow FB to catch up with Google's spying activities.

With these two and a few others who also are  into advertising revenue; finding out all they can about you is what makes them big money!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshA 

Yes a FB phone would allow FB to catch up with Google's spying activities.

With these two and a few others who also are  into advertising revenue; finding out all they can about you is what makes them big money!

 

Modern meaning of FBI acronym: FaceBook Interface

"Social Networking" has become an oxymoron! Bombarding people with tweets, family photos, how you feel today, does virtually nothing for deep social and engaging interaction. It is totally superficial. It drives me nuts when I'm out a bar or restaurant and see a table of several people ALL ON THEIR PHONES texting and reading posts instead of actually interacting with each other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcstarheel 


They have a "Who to Follow" section that shows you who to follow based on your followers..they also tell you which users are similar to you based on who you each follow.
To the point of the thread..
I find it funny that when I went to login here at AppleInsider Facebook Connect was sitting there. To me that's the real reason for a phone. Think of all the sites that use Facebook Connect for logging in or posting. That connection will be automatic with a Facebook Phone. Users would even more likely use their Facebook logins for all these sites which gives Zuck more info and more timely, pertinent ads. Once you agree to the Terms and Conditions Zuck will know everything you do in the mobile world. Oh you called AT&T customer service? Here's their Facebook page.
Sounds like the Google model to me.

And therein lies the perfect reason to NOT use Facebook, or integrate it into your device. People are being morons about how much of their personal data they are sharing through these whores.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

Apple is already a leader in social networking.  Apple's social network "just works" so well we forget we use Apple's social network everyday.  Why would Apple change their position and copy less successful companies in order to directly compete with those companies?

 

 

 

	Apple	Facebook	Google	Twitter
User Base	125 million (based on unique iCloud users)	900 million	170 million	140 million
Persistent	Yes on Apple Hardware	No	No (can be circumvented on hardware)	No
Cross Platform	OS X, iOS, Windows	HTML based	HTML based	HTML based
Personalized Page	No	Facebook Pages	Google+ Pages	Yes
Contacts or Friends List	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Social Groups	No but Contacts may be grouped	Yes	Yes	No
Hashtags	No	No	Yes	Yes
Email	Mail and iCloud	Messenger	Gmail	No
Instant Messaging	Messages	Facebook Messenger	Messenger	Tweets
Video Chat	FaceTime	Yes	Hangouts	external video chat links
Real-time Feeds	No	Yes	Yes	Yes
Location Sharing	Find Friends	No	No	No
Location “Check-in”	No	No but update could include location	No but update could include location	No but update could include location
Reminders for Events (i.e. birthdays)	Yes, if information added to Contacts	Yes	via Google Calendar	No
Digital Photography Sharing	Yes but not released on all hardware	Yes	Yes	Yes
Web Page Recommendations	No	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
App Recommendations or Links	Link Maker	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
Book Recommendations or Links	Link Maker	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
Movie Recommendations or Links	Link Maker	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
Music Recommendations or Links	Link Maker & Ping	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
TV Show Recommendations or Links	Link Maker	Like button	+1 button	Tweet button
Multiplayer game Matchmaking	Yes	Yes	Yes	No
Social Gaming	Game Center	Yes	Games	No
Game Achievements	Yes	Yes via Facebook Updates	?	No
Leader Boards	Yes	Yes via Facebook Updates	?	No
Trending	Via iTunes Store “What’s Hot”	Yes	Ripples and Sparks	Yes
Revenue Model	Hardware, iTunes Store	Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation	Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation	Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation

 

 

Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in.  We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.  The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions.  For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API.  The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.

 

Furthermore, Apple could quite easily extend Ping to include app developers, book authors, as well as movie and TV show actors and directors.  Ping is not a priority for Apple thus Apple doesn't force customers to use Ping.  If Apple so desired they could easily link Ping to your contact data (which they could mine from your Apple products).  Rather than fighting for your attention in social networking Apple has chosen to provide the best source for direct consumer payments for digital media content while other companies fight over advertising dollars.  The advertising revenue will only continue as long as the companies can continue to drive customer interaction.  Thus far, consumers have demonstrated that social networking must be engaging and said engagement should preferably be other users.

 

Conversely, we might speculate that many users of typical social networking services use those services to easily and quickly contact family, friends and associates as well as "because everyone else is using" the service.  (http://people.bath.ac.uk/aj266/pubs_pdf/p1027-joinson.pdf).  Users seem to resent this to some degree since Facebook customer satisfaction has been as low as 64% according to one study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#cite_note-133).

 

 

My apologies for not posting sources extensively but I will credit Wikipedia for much of the data as well as FAQs about the services themselves unless otherwise specified.

Excellent post! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ankleskater 

 

Perhaps the biggest ...? Since you don't know him, making such a criticism is baseless and a fail.

 

Besides, he has never claimed that his goal to connect the world was "altruistic".  It's just his goal. What's yours?

Uh, how do YOU know I don't know him?  Welcome to the Internet pal.

No, he never claimed to be altruistic....but....

Ya know, he continually hides behind the whole "open and connected" facade.

Meanwhile, Zuckerberg has publicly dodged questions about Facebook's privacy policy, user complaints are treated with disdain, and when cornered on issues, he replies with some Zen-like psycho-babble that leave Walt Mossberg and Kara Swisher feeling sorry for him.

Don't be naive.

Via social engineering, Facebook is out for your M O N E Y.......the IPO seems to be moving along swimmingly?

And therein lies my problem with it.  Just like I have with Google or Apple or any other company that tries to assimilate my info without my permission.

My goal? 

Enlightenment.