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Apple's next iPhone expected to consume 70% of high-res LTPS screen supply

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Supply of low-temperature poly-silicon touchscreens for non-Apple vendors is expected to be tight in 2012 and 2013, as the next iPhone could consume as much as 70 percent of capacity.

Production of the next iPhone is expected to begin at the end of the second quarter or the start of the third quarter of calendar 2012, according to Taiwanese supply chain sources who spoke with DigiTimes. The next iPhone's display is expected to feature in-cell touch panels that will make the high-resolution Retina display even thinner.

In order to achieve a screen resolution of 326 pixels-per-inch, the next iPhone will reportedly use LTPS technology. The in-cell panels are expected to be built by LG Display, Japan Display and Sharp.

Those same three suppliers were identified earlier this month in a handful of reports that claimed Apple is purchasing 4-inch displays for its next iPhone. Until now, all iPhone models have featured a smaller 3.5-inch touchscreen.

Collectively, LG Display, Japan Display and Sharp have a quarterly production capacity of 95 million LTPS panels. With a current yield rate of 75 percent, the companies can produce as many as 72 million panels at the moment.

iPhone 4S


That puts Apple and its next iPhone in a position to take up as much as 70 percent of the output of LTPS panels in 2012 and 2013, tech supply chain sources reportedly said. That situation could put smartphone makers other than Apple in a difficult position for components.

Industry insiders expect that Apple will produce more than 40 million iPhone units in the third quarter of calendar 2012, growing to 45 million units in the fourth quarter of the year. Apple's current quarterly record for iPhone sales came in the holiday quarter of 2011, during which the iPhone 4S launch drove the company to sales of 37 million iPhones.
post #2 of 30

Won't other vendors use different types of displays that will be in abundance?  What makes these people think that everyone will want to use LTPS panels?  Maybe they'll use less expensive panels.

post #3 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Won't other vendors use different types of displays that will be in abundance?  What makes these people think that everyone will want to use LTPS panels?  Maybe they'll use less expensive panels.

 

Because everyone copies what apple does and uses, nobody has original ideas, if apple used a potato as a screen, everyone would just copy it, apple invented the rectangle....etc.

 

On another note. Good to see apple FINALLY realizing that 3.5" is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive. Gonna get burned at the stake for saying it but......android showed the way with bigger screens and it seems apple have finally fallen in line.

 

*ducks shoe being thrown*

post #4 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Because everyone copies what apple does and uses, nobody has original ideas, if apple used a potato as a screen, everyone would just copy it, apple invented the rectangle....etc.

 

Actually not as Nokia has their Clearblack amoled displays, Samsung has their AMOLED(+) which have in-cell panels for the last couple of years and Sony used WhiteMagic/Bravia screens on their mobiles. HTC has S-LCD screens I think...

 

So all other brands are actually doing quite different things with their displays, most of them using their own technology

post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Because everyone copies what apple does and uses, nobody has original ideas, if apple used a potato as a screen, everyone would just copy it, apple invented the rectangle....etc.

 

On another note. Good to see apple FINALLY realizing that 3.5" is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive. Gonna get burned at the stake for saying it but......android showed the way with bigger screens and it seems apple have finally fallen in line.

 

*ducks shoe being thrown*

 

Not an attack, but ... I'm constantly amazed by the complete lack of sense in comments like this about screen size.  

 

The whole concept of there being general agreement amongst the public that 3.5 is "too small" or that "everyone knows" bigger is better now is just laughably ridiculous.  Whether or not the screen size changes, these kind of statements are completely illogical nonsense.  Although if they *do* change the size, all those that make them will feel vindicated and go on and on about how they were "right" when in fact it will always be a nonsense statement. 

post #6 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In order to achieve a screen resolution of 326 pixels-per-inch, the next iPhone will reportedly use LTPS technology. The in-cell panels are expected to be built by LG Display, Japan Display and Sharp.
Those same three suppliers were identified earlier this month in a handful of reports that claimed Apple is purchasing 4-inch displays for its next iPhone. Until now, all iPhone models have featured a smaller 3.5-inch touchscreen.

So they've increased the screen size from 3.5" to 4", but are retaining exactly the same PPI? I call BS.

Apple has four options:
1. Leave everything unchanged. 3.5", 326 PPI.
2. Increase the screen size to 4", while retaining the current 960x640 resolution. PPI would drop by around 10%, but it would not be noticeable to most people (especially since the viewing distance for a larger screen might be farther).
3. Increase the screen size to 4" and increase the screen resolution. In order to retain the 326 PPI, they would have to choose some strange resolution like 1054x702.
4. Increase the screen size to 4" and choose a more common resolution, perhaps 1200x800. Or 1024x768. But in that case, the PPI would be somewhat different.

I believe that option #3 (the one suggested by this article) is actually the least likely of the scenarios. Personally, I think #2 is more likely with #4 not far behind.
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post #7 of 30

Toss into circular file. It's from Digitimes.

 

lol.gif

post #8 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


So they've increased the screen size from 3.5" to 4", but are retaining exactly the same PPI? I call BS.
Apple has four options:
1. Leave everything unchanged. 3.5", 326 PPI.
2. Increase the screen size to 4", while retaining the current 960x640 resolution. PPI would drop by around 10%, but it would not be noticeable to most people (especially since the viewing distance for a larger screen might be farther).
3. Increase the screen size to 4" and increase the screen resolution. In order to retain the 326 PPI, they would have to choose some strange resolution like 1054x702.
4. Increase the screen size to 4" and choose a more common resolution, perhaps 1200x800. Or 1024x768. But in that case, the PPI would be somewhat different.
I believe that option #3 (the one suggested by this article) is actually the least likely of the scenarios. Personally, I think #2 is more likely with #4 not far behind.

 

So you're dismissing the most prevalent rumor going around - longer screen (same phone size) but same width at 1136 x 640?

post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

Not an attack, but ... I'm constantly amazed by the complete lack of sense in comments like this about screen size.  

 

The whole concept of there being general agreement amongst the public that 3.5 is "too small" or that "everyone knows" bigger is better now is just laughably ridiculous.  Whether or not the screen size changes, these kind of statements are completely illogical nonsense.  Although if they *do* change the size, all those that make them will feel vindicated and go on and on about how they were "right" when in fact it will always be a nonsense statement. 

 

I disagree with the "lack of common sense" comment.  Sleepy nailed it perfectly when he said that 3.5" was is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive.  I'm not saying everyone wants the ridiculous sized Galaxy Note mini-tablet as a phone.  But the way we use a smartphone these days is a helluva lot different than what we did 5 years ago.  Using media/videos/websites/apps/games etc.. is seriously challenging on such a small 3.5" screen.   More often these days, I find myself having to hold the phone closer to read small text.. having to constantly zoom in to identify/click on items correctly.. or just not being accurate enough when navigating the interface on such a small screen.  It simply should not be that challenging to use.  What's laughable is that someone disagrees with that.

 

About the only complaints that I have in the 2 years I've used my 4 & 4S, is that the screen is too small & I need a faster LTE connection.  Both are older, restrictive technologies that literally make my iPhone more challenging to use.  Apple could easily increase the size of the screen to 4 inches, and not need to increase the form factor much.. simply by using a thinner bezel.  It would make the phone alot more efficient to use and I believe the vast majority of iPhone users would be extremely satisfied with that upgrade.

post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

So you're dismissing the most prevalent rumor going around - longer screen (same phone size) but same width at 1136 x 640?

Not at all. That would be the option #4 that I listed - which I said is the second most likely scenario in my opinion. But that would not be 326 PPI, so it makes the Digitimes "prediction" incorrect - which was my entire point.
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post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

On another note. Good to see apple FINALLY realizing that 3.5" is just too darn small these days.

 

You don't know that. This is rumor not fact. So I would save such praise for when the phone is actually released and is bigger than 3.5"

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post #12 of 30
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Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

 

I disagree with the "lack of common sense" comment.  Sleepy nailed it perfectly when he said that 3.5" was is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive.  

 

1. that it is too small it personal opinion

 

2. even if it is that doesn't mean Apple is going to make a bigger phone. After all if you want a bigger screen, Apple could just say go get an iPad. 

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post #13 of 30

There is a huge installed base of software that uses the current aspect ration and pixel count. Changing either of those would significantly impact developers and cause a splintering of the iOS products. So I don't think Apple is going to add some rows of pixels to one end of the display just for grins.

 

Regarding size, yes, a larger display would be nice. But there are constraints such as the size of people's pockets that limit how big you can make a device and expect them to carry it everywhere.

 

Maintaining the aspect ratio and pixel count, lowering the PPI slightly, seems a viable option to me. Would Apple maintain both sizes? Are there other components they could jam into a slightly larger form? Could they put more power hungry chips in and use the extra space for battery? Or go the other way and get some more battery space to extend use time?

 

We'll see.

 

- Jasen.

post #14 of 30

I'm gonna go on record and say that I figure it's going to move to 4".


And I hate that. Is 3.5" on the small end these days? Sure. Is it too small? Only an idiot would say that.

 

I don't like the idea of a 4" phone, regardless of its manufacturer. I've seen 4" phones, and they're all terrible. There's a reason landline phones haven't grown into foot-long rulers or leviathan black bananas. They're as big as they need to be to serve their function. 

 

When size gets in the way of use-moreover, when size necessitates three different holding positions to actually use the device as intended-it's the wrong size.

post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Because everyone copies what apple does and uses, nobody has original ideas, if apple used a potato as a screen, everyone would just copy it, apple invented the rectangle....etc.

 

On another note. Good to see apple FINALLY realizing that 3.5" is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive. Gonna get burned at the stake for saying it but......android showed the way with bigger screens and it seems apple have finally fallen in line.

 

*ducks shoe being thrown*

If the rumor of an Aspect Ratio change to get the 4" screen is accurate, everything will still be just as small.

iPhone5.png


Edited by GS Turn - 5/29/12 at 8:26am
post #16 of 30

"Is 3.5" on the small end these days? Sure. Is it too small? Only an idiot would say that."

 

I would argue that "too small" depends on what you're using the phone for. Simply using it for movies and web-surfing, I find the iPhone screen adequate. I'd personally prefer a larger screen, but 3.5 is OK.

 

3.5 is definitely "too small" for comfortably using it as a GPS navigator. I use Navigon on the iPhone and while its leaps ahead of my old Tom Tom in functionality, every time I use it I wish it had the old larger Tom Tom screen size. Because the phone sits on my dashboard when navigating (much further away than when I hold it), I find myself having to look at it longer than I'd like when I'm driving. What should be quick glaces turn into longer stares as I'm trying to figure out where the next turn is on the smaller screen.

 

I suspect Apple realizes this, and will argue that the new screen size is there to make use of its (reportedly) new 3D navigation software. Just my guess.

post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Not at all. That would be the option #4 that I listed - which I said is the second most likely scenario in my opinion. But that would not be 326 PPI, so it makes the Digitimes "prediction" incorrect - which was my entire point.

 

Actually, PPI will remain the same with the speculation elongation, which is why I thought it was excluded from your list.

post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn View Post

If the rumor of an Aspect Ratio change to get the 4" screen is accurate, everything will still be just as small.

iPhone5.png

Option 2 looks SWEET! Would love to have some 16:9 sweetness on the go. Youtube vids, movies, everything HD will be playable at the native resolution and fill the whole screen up. Bring it on. 

 

And no worries with apps. Android has code in it to automatically scale to any screen resolution

http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html

That's just a lot of words to say that apps will look more or less the same on any screen size (IF YOU WANT IT TO, the developer can choose to use the extra space for what they see fit)

 

And I'm pretty confident iOS has the same, or that it will be pretty easy for iOS to add the same. (patents withstanding)

Would love to see that option 2 become a reality. Maybe not a circular home button though, that may be too small a target. 

post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post
Would love to have some 16:9 sweetness on the go. Youtube vids, movies, everything HD will be playable at the native resolution and fill the whole screen up. 

 

Except movies are 2.39:1 and you'll still have black bars.

post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not at all. That would be the option #4 that I listed - which I said is the second most likely scenario in my opinion. But that would not be 326 PPI, so it makes the Digitimes "prediction" incorrect - which was my entire point.

It sure read like you excluded that possibility when you wrote, "So they've increased the screen size from 3.5" to 4", but are retaining exactly the same PPI? I call BS." and "3. Increase the screen size to 4" and increase the screen resolution. In order to retain the 326 PPI, they would have to choose some strange resolution like 1054x702."

If they use 1146x640 you get 326 PPI. You also get no change to the phone's width and since most scrolling occurs in portrait mode Apple likely has a relatively easy time in creating APIs and an SDK that can deal with showing more what needs to be scrolled. Apple also gets the opportunity to hold its cards close to its vest before it announces and demos the 6th gen iPhone in September without having to prep developers many months in advance which would be the case for any change in non-scaling pixel size.

On top of all that the issue with a larger display comes from the width more than the height (where they also have more room to play) is an issue for consumers. They also only have to cut the sheets with a different aspect ratio to get them to work. It's only a single pixel off (1136x639) being exactly 16:9 aspect ratio. It all seems to fit very well.

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post #21 of 30
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Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Option 2 looks SWEET! Would love to have some 16:9 sweetness on the go.

1) I think you'll get your wish.

2) The issue I have with the mockup is the Home Button being smaller (which wouldn't be an issue if it was elongated), and the centering of the display when the mechanics of our hand would make it better for the display to be off center in portrait mode with the display pushed higher, but I have a hard time seeing Apple not being symmetrical.

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post #22 of 30
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It sure read like you excluded that possibility when you wrote, "So they've increased the screen size from 3.5" to 4", but are retaining exactly the same PPI? I call BS." and "3. Increase the screen size to 4" and increase the screen resolution. In order to retain the 326 PPI, they would have to choose some strange resolution like 1054x702."
If they use 1146x640 you get 326 PPI. You also get no change to the phone's width and since most scrolling occurs in portrait mode Apple likely has a relatively easy time in creating APIs and an SDK that can deal with showing more what needs to be scrolled. Apple also gets the opportunity to hold its cards close to its vest before it announces and demos the 6th gen iPhone in September without having to prep developers many months in advance which would be the case for any change in non-scaling pixel size.
On top of all that the issue with a larger display comes from the width more than the height (where they also have more room to play) is an issue for consumers. They also only have to cut the sheets with a different aspect ratio to get them to work. It's only a single pixel off (1136x639) being exactly 16:9 aspect ratio. It all seems to fit very well.

 

What do you mean by "cut the sheets"?

post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It sure read like you excluded that possibility when you wrote, "So they've increased the screen size from 3.5" to 4", but are retaining exactly the same PPI? I call BS." and "3. Increase the screen size to 4" and increase the screen resolution. In order to retain the 326 PPI, they would have to choose some strange resolution like 1054x702."
If they use 1146x640 you get 326 PPI. You also get no change to the phone's width and since most scrolling occurs in portrait mode Apple likely has a relatively easy time in creating APIs and an SDK that can deal with showing more what needs to be scrolled. Apple also gets the opportunity to hold its cards close to its vest before it announces and demos the 6th gen iPhone in September without having to prep developers many months in advance which would be the case for any change in non-scaling pixel size.
On top of all that the issue with a larger display comes from the width more than the height (where they also have more room to play) is an issue for consumers. They also only have to cut the sheets with a different aspect ratio to get them to work. It's only a single pixel off (1136x639) being exactly 16:9 aspect ratio. It all seems to fit very well.

Your preferred Aspect Ratio change creates many problems, the biggest of which is landscape mode.  When you turn the phone sideways the screen fills the width by scaling the size of everything to fit.  With the Aspect Ratio changed you then see much less of a page in landscape, yes it will be larger but because it is larger less of a page shows. So they would either have to box in Landscape or you would see less of a page. And what happens when the keyboard pops up in landscape and scales out to the full width of the screen, you then have only a small amount of the page left above the keyboard.

 

With an Aspect Ratio change Developers would need a lot more advance notice to make their Apps look good, it would change everything for many Apps. With just an enlargement of the screen keeping the same aspect ratio and resolution, there would be no need for any changes to Apps.  All you would have is less DPI which they could explain away with little problem.

 

iOS 6 will give us hints which way they will be going.  If Aspect Ratio changes are not addressed in iOS 6 then all of these parts are either prototypes or fakes.  We will see in a couple of weeks when they preview iOS 6.


Edited by GS Turn - 5/29/12 at 10:25am
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
That puts Apple and its next iPhone in a position to take up as much as 70 percent of the output of LTPS panels in 2012 and 2013, tech supply chain sources reportedly said. That situation could put smartphone makers other than Apple in a difficult position for components.

 

Bingo.  That's one reason why Apple can maintain 40+% margins.  By making the biggest component orders and getting the lowest per-unit price.

 

You pay your money, you take your pick, and everyone else is forced to outbid each other for the remainder.

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post #25 of 30

I'm hoping that Apple will simply redefine "Retina" and stretch the existing 960x640 resolution out to the edges of the "new iPhone."

Existing apps wouldn't need to change at all.  Even apps written for the original iPhone 2G would still work unchanged (???).

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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post

What do you mean by "cut the sheets"?
I'm under the impression that LCDs are built, not one at a time but as a large sheets that are then divided into the needed component sizes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn View Post

Your preferred Aspect Ratio change creates many problems, the biggest of which is landscape mode.  When you turn the phone sideways the screen fills the width by scaling the size of everything to fit.  With the Aspect Ratio changed you then see much less of a page in landscape, yes it will be larger but because it is larger less of a page shows. So they would either have to box in Landscape or you would see less of a page. And what happens when the keyboard pops up in landscape and scales out to the full width of the screen, you then have only a small amount of the page left above the keyboard.

With an Aspect Ratio change Developers would need a lot more advance notice to make their Apps look good, it would change everything for many Apps. With just an enlargement of the screen keeping the same aspect ratio and resolution, there would be no need for any changes to Apps. iOS 6 will give us hints which way they will be going.  If Aspect Ratio changes is not addressed in iOS 6 then all of these parts are either prototypes or fakes.  We will see in a couple of weeks when they preview iOS 6.
That makes no sense. There is still a pixel-to-pixel correlation so the keyboard would not be taking up any more of the pixel space above where the keyboard. You're talking about scaling everything up because the display is larger but you're ignoring the exact same pixel sizes between the differing display sizes. What you get is a more space for the keyboard in the landscape mode on the sides for larger buttons and/or more buttons, while also getting more space above the keyboard for the content window. It's a larger display.

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post #27 of 30
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Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Won't other vendors use different types of displays that will be in abundance?  What makes these people think that everyone will want to use LTPS panels?  Maybe they'll use less expensive panels.

Or Super Duper Duper AMOLED...

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post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Because everyone copies what apple does and uses, nobody has original ideas, if apple used a potato as a screen, everyone would just copy it, apple invented the rectangle....etc.

 

On another note. Good to see apple FINALLY realizing that 3.5" is just too darn small these days. it was fine in 2007, but now, with so much rich media, videos, ability to see full websites, productivity apps, etc, 3.5" is downright restrictive. Gonna get burned at the stake for saying it but......android showed the way with bigger screens and it seems apple have finally fallen in line.

 

*ducks shoe being thrown*

Don't worry about it; no one here will take you serious after the ignorant rectangle remark.

post #29 of 30

Why not include more pixels and have existing apps occupy the exact same space and resolution they currently do, rather than majorly distorting the image of thousands of apps? You'd really prefer that over some black bars, not to mention the fact that there would be no potential to increase real estate for new generation apps?

post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
I can't believe you said that anyone that thinks a 3.5" screen is too small is an idiot. I understand why some people are content and prefer a 3.5" screen, and even though I disagree and secretly think they are idiots, it is quite another thing to say it out loud. 9to5mac did a poll with over 100,000 votes and only about 10% wanted to keep the iPhone at 3.5". 90% out of more than 100,000 people polled wanted a larger screen. Are they all idiots?

 

Wanting a larger screen ≠ "a smaller screen is unusable".

 

Quote:

As soon as Apple releases a larger display all you 3.5" apologist will think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

It's hilarious, the things people think they can tell me about myself.

 

Quote:
As far as the one hand and a thumb to reach entire screen argument, why couldn't Apple just allow Siri to open apps or navigate the GUI? Problem solved.

 

Who says they won't? I expect a Siri API in iOS 6. But this is in no way an actual solution.

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