Netflix online movie streaming revenue explodes, slices Apple share in half - Page 3

Netflix has a few gems, rarer titles and classics, but a lot of their inventory is padded with crappy B-movies and straight-to-video releases that nobody has ever heard of. And more often than not, if I want to watch a more recent popular movie that's absent on Netflix, I'll find it on iTunes. I like iTunes: it's fast, easy, and you never see buffering or degraded quality. You can also load it onto iPads and iPods for offline viewing. Most of the time, Netflix is trouble-free, but once in a while, the video will degrade to "multimedia CD-ROM from 1991" quality, and if you're away from WiFi, forget it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkevwill 

Doesn't matter though, if you only have one or two choices for internet, and its not up to FIOS quality. Not everyone has a stellar broadband connection. Whats worse is, mark my word. Your isp will soon start capping broadband usage, and give you a choice of different tiers, if you want to stream. All of a sudden, streaming videos will not be such a great deal. This is coming soon, watch it coming over the hill.

so what is the difference if you stream 2gig or download 2 gig from itunes? not a damn thing unless you plan on watching the same movie over and over and over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamingfist 
so what is the difference if you stream 2gig or download 2 gig from itunes? not a damn thing unless you plan on watching the same movie over and over and over.

The difference is you get to watch the downloaded movie multiple times. Not so of streaming with a capped/throttled/raped connection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton 

Netflix has a few gems, rarer titles and classics, but a lot of their inventory is padded with crappy B-movies and straight-to-video releases that nobody has ever heard of. And more often than not, if I want to watch a more recent popular movie that's absent on Netflix, I'll find it on iTunes. I like iTunes: it's fast, easy, and you never see buffering or degraded quality. You can also load it onto iPads and iPods for offline viewing. Most of the time, Netflix is trouble-free, but once in a while, the video will degrade to "multimedia CD-ROM from 1991" quality, and if you're away from WiFi, forget it.

the gold key for netflix is to add the latest movies for a rental fee like amazon prime is doing. amazon is the bigger threat to netflix and also apple. right now amazons service isn't as good as netflix and the interface needs work (a queue, etc.).

itunes? forget it. apple just doesn't get the 'cloud'. i use amazon to listen to my music, read my books, and buy lots of other things and i do it from my linux distro machine, my pc, my mac, my phone etc.

amazon and google get the cloud. icloud and itunes is sh*te.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tallest Skil 

 

The difference is you get to watch the downloaded movie multiple times. Not so of streaming with a capped/throttled/raped connection.

i covered that in the post.

unless you use the convenience of renting it on your apple tv, then you CAN NOT transfer it anywhere, iPod, iPad, iPhone or anything else.

I have good performance with Netflix, bit had seen several buffering problems with the apple content - i complain they credit me, but it makes for a disappointing evening

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamingfist 

the gold key for netflix is to add the latest movies for a rental fee like amazon prime is doing. amazon is the bigger threat to netflix and also apple. right now amazons service isn't as good as netflix and the interface needs work (a queue, etc.).

itunes? forget it. apple just doesn't get the 'cloud'. i use amazon to listen to my music, read my books, and buy lots of other things and i do it from my linux distro machine, my pc, my mac, my phone etc.

amazon and google get the cloud. icloud and itunes is sh*te.

agree on the cloud bit - frustrating to have rented a movie on the apple tv, then can not watch the rest on an iPad, iPod or anything else - its really quite pathetic

I have Netflix at home, and we enjoy it.  It is far too limited but a lot of older shows are still fun to watch. Renting or buying something from iTunes is prohibitively expensive. Lets take a example:  I enjoy "Justified" and "Walking Dead", both of which are on premium cable channels and would cost me around $120 a month to subscribe to the way things are package in Canada. Netflix costs me $7.99 a month but only have limited selection.  Since I canceled my cable subscription where do I get the content I want to see. Well, for about $20 a month I get about 8 Dvds sent to me through a Netflix like (zip.ca) mail service here in Canada.  My public library has tons of movies and TV shows if you take the time to look them up and get them on loan.  I just got Justified season 2 from the library and Game of Thrones. The library doesn't cost me anything (tax dollars of coarse). CTV has an iAPP that lets us stream some shows (ad supported... my wife likes criminal minds) to my apple tv which is again free.  Both Walking dead and Justified were $49.99 for the season on iTunes Game of thrones was 59.99 last time I looked (wow that is expensive)  There is no longer a rental option.  Call me cheap, but I am not going to pay $49.99 for a TV show. I do buy from iTunes from time to time, but it is a rarity. I don't think I am a minority in this. $49.99 is the same price they are charging for the physical media. In fact, I find many of the shows (1year older or more) are actually cheaper on dvd than they are on iTunes. 6 months after release I will be able to pick it up new series in the bargin bin at walmart for $19.99 if I really want to own it. 

The iTunes model is broken when it come to tv and movies. It costs far too much.  They haven't been able to bring the prices down to the tipping point that would make it worthwhile to use the streaming iTunes model as a replacement for cable. I don't know how Steve Jobs thought he solved the problem, but I can't wait to find out.

I have to wonder what people who think Netflix content is limited are expecting? I'd heard that mantra many times before I had signed up for the free trial. If anything, we've been pleasantly surprised at how good the selection is. There's no way anyone could ever have enough time to even browse all of the titles available, never mind watch them. At 8 bucks a month, it's by far the best entertainment value that I've ever seen.

I also wonder how new people are expecting the movies to be for $8/month unlimited? The other day my wife and I decided to brush up on the Marvel movies before going to the Avengers. Netflix had Iron Man 2, Thor, and Captain America. Those three movies alone would have cost me $60 on iTunes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMHut 

I like NetFlix but I am tired of their limited selections and "new releases" from 20 years ago. l realize this is because content creators are afraid of digital download subscription services, but in reality their practices are costing the residuals from netflix, not driving people to pay for individual movie rentals. I wish copyright holders would step into the 21st century and release their stuff to Netflix, et al. It would make sense for them to delay letting go of new titles long enough to make money on individual movie rentals, then release them to Netflix for download. However, it makes no sense to release movies that have left theaters to Mail order Netflix (as they currently do) but not for streaming. What's the difference?

What I am tired of are people who have never created anything substantial in their lives telling copyright holders that they need to monetize their work using the Netflix model.

Anyways, why do these companies need Netflix to digital distribution?  At one point the technology was extremely expensive meaning Netflix was the only game in town.  Now anything with an internet connection can setup their own streaming library.  Why does ABC need to put their content on Netflix when they can simply release a ABC app and stream their content directly to consumers? 

Why do these production companies *need* Netflix?  Netflix certainly needs them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsenka 
I also wonder how new people are expecting the movies to be for $8/month unlimited? The other day my wife and I decided to brush up on the Marvel movies before going to the Avengers. Netflix had Iron Man 2, Thor, and Captain America. Those three movies alone would have cost me $60 on iTunes.

Netflix has neither Thor or Captain America available via their streaming platform which is what is being discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patranus 

 

 

Netflix has neither Thor or Captain America available via their streaming platform which is what is being discussed.

Yes they do, they are in the "New Arrivals" section.

edit:

Here's the listing on Apple TV:

And on the Netflix website:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacBook Pro 

 

Why the 2TB Time Capsule connected to ???  Are you just purchasing directly from Apple then or are you using AirPlay from your Mac to the AppleTV?

 

 

The data is good.  I have posted links that demonstrated Apple's dominance in digital movie downloads many times in other threads.

Time Capsule is a wifi router, as well as a storage device. He said he was connecting his apple TV via ethernet, to one of the ethernet ports on the Time Capsule, hence it is not via wifi. Should be a solid fast connection.

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

...but it's too damn expensive.

Sigh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patranus 

What I am tired of are people who have never created anything substantial in their lives telling copyright holders that they need to monetize their work using the Netflix model.

 

Anyways, why do these companies need Netflix to digital distribution?  At one point the technology was extremely expensive meaning Netflix was the only game in town.  Now anything with an internet connection can setup their own streaming library.  Why does ABC need to put their content on Netflix when they can simply release a ABC app and stream their content directly to consumers? 

 

Why do these production companies *need* Netflix?  Netflix certainly needs them.

First, I "create substantial things" every day of the work week. Most of it is copyrighted, much of it video work.  It's what I do for a living, I'm a creative professional. Do you even subscribe to Netflix? Just curious 'cause it sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. The movies I'm talking about being released for down load on netflix are ALREADY AVAILABLE ON NETFLIX! It's just that they're only through mail order. Netflix, and their licensers would make MORE money on the digital download OF MOVIES THEY ALREADY HAVE in the netflix library, by streaming because there is no disc to duplicate or mailing fees with a download. So I ask you again genius, what's the difference to movie title owners who already offer their titles to subscription services like netflix between mailing it on a disc, or sending it by download? I mean besides it actually costing them less to offer the movie for download than it does to mail them on a disc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paxman 

I am glad Apple is being pushed here. Hopefully competition will see better choice and better prices. Purchasing individual TV episodes from Apple is expensive. Purchasing a season is better, but who on earth wants to BUY a season of anything? Renting a movie needs to be cheaper. I don't watch much TV but if Netflix's content inventory is getting better then all power to them. 10 buck per month is very doable. $5.99 per movie is way too expensive.

Just to play Devil's advocate here, on what are you making the assumption that $5.99 is too expensive for a movie? Your own choice about what you want to pay? Fair enough.

But think about what you do every day for a living. Do you create things to sell to earn money? Do you sell things? And how do you come up with that pricing? You just think what would people pay? Possibly.

But I bet you (or your boss) probably sat down and thought about things like: rent for an office/shop; local state and federal taxes; wages for employees; costs to implement and maintain servers; licensing fees to content creators; health benefit insurance; 

Now you might well say that older movies have had their costs covered already and so they should be free. But you ask your local restaurant now that they have paid for the stove, plates and ingredients if you can have that steak for free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paxman 

I am glad Apple is being pushed here. Hopefully competition will see better choice and better prices. Purchasing individual TV episodes from Apple is expensive. Purchasing a season is better, but who on earth wants to BUY a season of anything? Renting a movie needs to be cheaper. I don't watch much TV but if Netflix's content inventory is getting better then all power to them. 10 buck per month is very doable. $5.99 per movie is way too expensive.

It depends on what kind of experience you look for. With certain episodic shows (Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Walking Dead, Breaking Bad, Justified, Sons of Anarchy, etc.) I purposely avoid first runs of an entire season on TV because I enjoy getting the whole season at once on iTunes (or NetFlix if available) and scheduling my own weekend "marathons" and watch the shows back to back with no commercials. Some shows have such a complicated story line that you miss a lot or lose a lot of the continuity watching them with a week between them, especially since many non-networks have taken to splitting the season in two with months between them. Hell, sometimes you lose the plot in the same show on TV because they run 10 or 15 minutes of commercials at once, with the one episode effectively broken into four parts or more. Sure, it's expensive, especially if you consider they're already free on TV. But the viewing experience is far richer and you really get sucked into the shows that way. If you consider what it costs to go to one movie now days, the cost of an entire season is about the same as two movies, plus you don't have to put up with idiots in the audience jabbering the whole time, or a-holes who can't go five minutes without checking their phones. The last movie I went to was like watching it in a room full of fire flies flashing all over the place because of all the cell phone addicts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffDM 

I think that's a valid point.
It is, technically. At first, it was a bonus service, so the revenue might be countable as zero. I think for a while it was $3/mo add-on for streaming. Then people like you and me on the basic streaming plan, we're paying $8/mo. I don't think the numbers are lying, just that people looking at the numbers should keep facts like that in mind so they don't draw incorrect conclusions.

I think you missed my point.  A year ago I subscribed to the full netflix subscriptions for DVDs and Streaming because you had to subscribe to both to get streaming.  I never borrowed any DVDs, I just used the streaming.  They split them out, so I dropped the DVD service and went to exclusively a streaming subscription.  THey make less money from me than they did before.

Look at their last quarterly filing.  A year ago they had about 23 million subscribers, streaming wasn't split out.  This past quarter, they had about 23 million streaming subscribers but just 10 million DVD subscribers (which is down considerably from the 14 million DVD subscribers they had the first quarter after they split out DVDs from streaming).  So it appears that about 13 million people did the same thing I did, they dropped the DVD service.  Somehow that is being spun as a major market share gain, which makes no sense.  Netflix didn't come out of nowhere and gain market share from Apple, they just changed the way they count and bill their subscribers.

Certainly some attention should be paid to the fact that they generate more revenue than Apple, but it isn't from vaulting past apple as they were already ahead, it's simply from counting the revenue differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 


I have no problem with no 'news' access since I have access to the internet but Fox News isn't a news service, it's an entertainment channel (on par with many AM radio stations) so i don't get your point.

And for those who have any doubt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcjzdoiL0j4 

The rest of the media is not much better so people are looking elsewhere for their news:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6sYB5d1Bu4

Hey Netflix... How about an international service?

I'd love to check you out.

+

I have stated since Apple's sold their first movies on iTunes that Steve Jobs was completely correct about people wanting to own their music, but he was incorrect when he assumed the same for movies/shows.

If Apple was purposefully staying away from subscription based movies/shows then they have been making a huge blunder.  And if this was due to Jobs insistence, then it has been one of his few mistakes at Apple.

It could be that it is the music industry that has forced Apple's model for only buying (or renting at high price) and wouldn't sign a deal that did otherwise.  In that case the industry is once again out-of-touch with what they are competing against (bit-torrents) and have strangled Apple's ability to create a modern movie industry.

-GP

Quote:

Originally Posted by AppleZilla 

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

I want to buy many movies from iTunes.

 

...but it's too damn expensive.

 

Sigh.

Every week iTunes has new bargains you just need to search a little.  Sometimes the bargains are shown in the header such as "Superhero Summer" (or other "catchy" title) with some HD titles at $9.99.  Sometimes the bargains are even called "Bargains" as a category in "Top Movies."

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


I think that's correct. Jobs at All Things D has stated many times over the years that there is a balance that needs to be had. I'm sure we've all experienced at a job where you know something that someone else doesn't, either a boss or a customer, but they can't see it or don't trust it or whatever so you are not choice but to do work around their fear and/or ignorance hoping that one that day they understand.
Apple has been correct about a lot of things in media but they've also been so successful in gaining control from their lack of intelligence that there is an understandable recoil when Apple offers them their hand. Sometimes diplomacy and/or education will not be enough and you'll have to let them fail before they understand. It's not unlike dealing with an obstinate child.

Although I believe this is correct, there are families that purchase significant amounts of media.  I know people that have shelves and shelves of movies.  While that makes no sense to me, apparently they like this model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by screamingfist 

the gold key for netflix is to add the latest movies for a rental fee like amazon prime is doing. amazon is the bigger threat to netflix and also apple. right now amazons service isn't as good as netflix and the interface needs work (a queue, etc.).

itunes? forget it. apple just doesn't get the 'cloud'. i use amazon to listen to my music, read my books, and buy lots of other things and i do it from my linux distro machine, my pc, my mac, my phone etc.

amazon and google get the cloud. icloud and itunes is sh*te.

Clearly a company that "doesn't get the 'cloud.'

Apple has the market leading ecosystem with:

• 28 million (mostly) DRM-free songs worldwide (many encoded as 256 kbit/s AAC)
• 1,000,000+ podcasts (USA)
• 40,000+ music videos (USA)
• 3,000+ TV shows (USA)
• 20,000+ audiobooks (USA)
• 2,500+ movies (USA)
• 725,700 App Store Apps with more than 25 billion downloads
• Apple has more than 70% of the digital music downloads and 30% of digital movie downloads
• Apple iTunes in the Cloud provides free, unlimited perpetual storage and access on-demand to the entire catalog of purchased movies, music and TV shows

• Apple iCloud provides seamless synchronization of Apps,  audiobooks, Books, calendars, contacts, movies, music, podcasts, TV shows in the cloud

• Apple iTunes Match allows users to download up to 25,000 tracks in 256 kbit/s DRM-free AAC file format that match tracks in any supported audio file format, including ALAC and mp3, in the customers' iTunes libraries, with users having the additional option on their computers to keep the original version stored there or to replace it with the version from the iTunes Store as they wish

• Apple iCloud provides free mail, calendars and contacts and "find my phone" (with Notes and Reminders reportedly coming soon)
• Apple iCloud provides 5 GB free storage which enables bookmarks, calendars, contacts, data & document, email, notes, to-do lists synchronization across devices and platforms
• Apple Photo Stream provides up to one month storage of up to 1,000 digital photographs with synchronization across devices
• Apple iCloud "Back to my Mac" service automatically configures ad hoc, on-demand, point-to-point encrypted connections between computers using IPSec.

• Apple iCloud "Find my iPhone" allows users to track the location of their iOS device, or Mac with the ability to see the device's approximate location on a map (along with a circle showing the radius depicting the margin of error), display a message or play a sound on the device (even if it is set to silent), change the password on the device, and remotely erase its contents
• Apple iCloud allows users the option to back up iOS devices online and restore from online backup without connecting to a computer

I'm surprised Amazon Prime isn't up there with Netflix in terms of market share.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


I love the way people make arbitrary comments like this without justification. It may be too expensive FOR YOU, but that doesn't mean it's too expensive. A Ferrari is too expensive for me, but Ferrari customers are perfectly happy with it. Millions of people are paying it and are quite happy.
What are your alternatives?
Well, you could buy the DVD for $14.99 to $24.99.
Or you could go to the movie theatre for $7.50 per person plus another $10 per person in popcorn and sodas.
Since millions of people go to the movies regularly and millions more buy DVDs, $5.99 seems like a bargain if you're not going to watch the movie very often or if you generally watch new movies at the theatre.

Lots of alternatives.  Public Library is free.  There are still dvd rental places around doing very well now that blockbuster is dead (rentals $2.49).  Dvd kiosks are popping up everywhere ($2.00 rentals). An then there is always piracy (free again). $5.99 is too expensive for what you get anyway you slice it. Members of the 1% like yourself are still just 1%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam 

Lots of alternatives.  Public Library is free.  There are still dvd rental places around doing very well now that blockbuster is dead (rentals $2.49).  Dvd kiosks are popping up everywhere ($2.00 rentals). An then there is always piracy (free again). $5.99 is too expensive for what you get anyway you slice it. Members of the 1% like yourself are still just 1%.

Did you really just say $5.99 is too expensive because stealing is free?  Great ethics there.

The other options are price vs convenience tradeoffs.  Get into your car, drive to the video store or kiosk, pick out a movie, find the one you really want is gone and you have to pick something else, bring it home to watch, watch it, then drive back the next day to return it to avoid late fees vs paying a couple of extra dollars to view the new movie you want to watch when you want to watch it.

Currently streaming movies is broken in that the selection isn't always there - this is a movie studio issue, not an apple issue.  When the Avengers came out, I wanted to rent Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man 2 to watch before going to the movie.  I couldn't do it.  Blockbuster was out of stock of all 3, iTunes wouldn't rent them, but rather only sold them, they weren't on Netflix.  I didn't want to buy them, I just wanted to watch them.  I ended up not being able to watch them before we saw the Avengers despite driving around town and searching the various streaming rental sites.  The movie industry lost money because of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta 


A Ferrari is too expensive for me, but Ferrari customers are perfectly happy with it. Millions of people are paying it and are quite happy.

Millions might be overstating a bit. 10's of thousands more likely, but your general point is still valid. "Too expensive" doesn't apply to everyone just as you say.

And here I thought that they were still trying to figure out how to turn a profit on the streaming.  It has gotten much better as far as selection over the last few months so I think we will see further move towards Netflix streaming as long as they can keep that up.  I wouldn't mind a more premium option which could have more movies and newer releases.  The main problem that Netflix has at this point though is their wide range of devices and UIs.  On some of my devices I love the interface, but on others it is terrible.  Also, some devices do not allow proper buffering and can result in the constant rebuffing that people experience even when they have a great internet connection.