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WSJ: Apple to abandon Google Maps on iOS later this year - Page 2

post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.

 

Mediocre?

 

Hardly.

 

The IIci was the Mac of choice amongst business and graphics professionals. Quite a bit cheaper than the IIfx but just as capable... we were willing to wait for 10 minutes for things to render.  ;-)

 

By the way, the IIfx came after the IIci.

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post #42 of 89

I just hope they don't go overboard with 3D maps.

 

When trying to read a map to get somewhere, 3D is a bad idea, even if it "looks pretty"

 

I'd just like a constantly updating path/distance to my destination, much like vehicle GPS units work.

post #43 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

Mediocre?

 

Hardly.

 

The IIci was the Mac of choice amongst business and graphics professionals. Quite a bit cheaper than the IIfx but just as capable... we were willing to wait for 10 minutes for things to render.  ;-)

 

By the way, the IIfx came after the IIci.

Well I guess I'm biased toward the pro models. I had the SE, II, IIfx, 9500, 9600, 840AV, G3, G4, Mac Pro, with a smattering of iMacs and laptops, but always the highest configurations.

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post #44 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Well I guess I'm biased toward the pro models. I had the SE, II, IIfx, 9500, 9600, 840AV, G3, G4, Mac Pro, with a smattering of iMacs and laptops, but always the highest configurations.

 

You've got your model numbers mixed up.

 

The IIci was the pro model of pro models. (Anyone can look it up if they want to do so)

 

[by the way... had a 9600, 840AV and a G3... still liked my IIci the most... I got seriously attached to it]

 

... and now back to regular programming...


Edited by island hermit - 6/5/12 at 8:58am
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post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrboba1 View Post
I just hope they don't go overboard with 3D maps.

 

When trying to read a map to get somewhere, 3D is a bad idea, even if it "looks pretty"

 

Don't worry. There'll always be a nice, top-down 2D mode that will include plain map data, satellite view, and probably then the 3D implementation, as well.

 

Quote:
I'd just like a constantly updating path/distance to my destination, much like vehicle GPS units work.

 

Though that is also a 3D view, at least on most models.

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post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

You've got your model numbers mixed up.

 

The IIci was the pro model of pro models. (Anyone can look it up if they want to do so)

 

... and now back to regular programming...

Sorry I was thinking of the lc

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post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sorry I was thinking of the lc

 

Hell... I bought a Performa... once.

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post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
Hell... I bought a Performa... once.

 

"How many megs of RAM, Carmine?"

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post #49 of 89

As a reminder, at one time mapping and navigation was not a core competency for Google.  

 

  • As reported by Business Week; As of October 30, 2004, ZipDash, Inc. was acquired by Google Inc. ZipDash, Inc. provides real time traffic information on mobile devices. The company develops a software which allows cell-phone users with Global Positioning Satellite systems (GPS) to view the movement of traffic. The company was founded in 2003 and is based in Palo Alto, California.

 

  • According to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Lars Rasmussen, who with his brother Jens, co-founded a mapping start-up, Where 2 Technologies, which was acquired by Google in 2004. Lars joined Google and this acquisition became Google Maps.

 

  • According to a Google press release "Google Inc. (Nasdaq: GOOG) today announced it acquired Keyhole Corp., a Mountain View, Calif.-based digital mapping company..."  "...With Keyhole, you can fly like a superhero from your computer at home to a street corner somewhere else in the world – or find a local hospital, map a road trip or measure the distance between two points," said Jonathan Rosenberg, vice president, Product Management. "This acquisition gives Google users a powerful new search tool, enabling users to view 3D images of any place on earth as well as tap a rich database of roads, businesses and many other points of interest. Keyhole is a valuable addition to Google’s efforts to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful..."

 

  • CNet reported that Google has acquired @Last Software, a 3D-design toolmaker and developer of the SketchUp software, the start-up announced Tuesday.  @Last Software, a Boulder, Colo.-based company, marks the latest acquisition by the rapidly expanding search giant. @Last Software's SketchUp, which is used by architects, game players, woodworkers and others, has a plug-in designed to allow developers to export 3D models into Google Earth.

 

  • Network World reported that Google has acquired portions of a Swiss company called Endoxon in order to improve the European maps in its Google Earth PC application and the Google Maps online search service.  Endoxon develops Asynchronous JavaScript + XML mapping technologies for integrating and processing geo-referenced data and high-resolution aerial and satellite images for dynamic Internet and mobile services, according to the company's site.
post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

IIci??!

I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.

I think you got your model numbers mixed up.

IIsi maybe.

I agree, I have a IIci in my 'nostalgia cupboard'. It still works fine.
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post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

As a reminder, at one time mapping and navigation was not a core competency for Google.  

But Apple isn't competing against Google from 2005. Apple needs to compete with the Google of today and all the mapping knowledge and experience they have amassed since originally launching Google Maps.

3D is a gimmick (and probably will be available in just a few cities). What matters is the quality of 2D maps. If Apple's replacement maps aren't as good as Google Maps today this could back fire on Apple.
post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

He/she talks like street view will no longer be available on Apple products.

 

If he/she wants street view then go to Google Maps.

 

My guess is that Apple will offer something a tad different... an application where maps is what is important... not looking to see the colour of someone's house.

 

This is entirely a guess at this point but I believe Apple will provide a 3D bird's eye view automatically oriented and centered on the user's current location.  Such a solution would provide an amazing hybrid of 3D views and street level views (aka a bird's eye view).   The controls for the C3 Technologies solution are quite unwieldy (for a small form factor mobile device) if the Nokia Maps 3D interpretation is a good representation (I believe it is a good representation).  Furthermore, automatic orientation and centering of a 3D bird's eye view is an excellent expression of Apple's simple but elegant philosophy which would make 3D maps far more than a novelty.


Edited by MacBook Pro - 6/5/12 at 9:38am
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post


But Apple isn't competing against Google from 2005. Apple needs to compete with the Google of today and all the mapping knowledge and experience they have amassed since originally launching Google Maps.
3D is a CURRENTLY a gimmick (and probably will be available in just a few cities). What matters is the quality of 2D maps. If Apple's replacement maps aren't as good as Google Maps today this could back fire on Apple.

 

What innovations has Google made?  The acquisitions Google made were brilliant and extended Google advertisements into location services quite effectively but they haven't made significant strides outside of those acquisitions.  

 

The acquisitions made by Apple demonstrably provided solutions competitive with or better than Google Maps, Google Earth and Google Earth 3D.  Apple has had at least three years to make maps and navigation a core competency and has likely thought about those services for a much longer period of time.

 

Fixed your comment.  3D maps are currently a gimmick.  Apple is the company that could make 3D maps useful.  Until Siri, voice commands were a gimmick and many, especially fAndroids, believe voice commands are still a gimmick although this difference may be due to the conversational interface with personalization, semantic analysis and context awareness.

 

C3 Technologies had 3D maps for more than 100 cities more than one year ago.

 

Maps based on Apple technology rather than Google technology does not need to be as good as Google based Maps.  Maps simply needs to be "good enough" although the solution will far surpass that standard.  As I have already indicated in previous posts much of the technology in Maps is already based on technology from companies other than Google.


Edited by MacBook Pro - 6/5/12 at 9:58am
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

There have been rumors about this for years, I have no doubt that it is finally happening. 

 

Yep. And yet note that WSJ is saying "could". hedging their bets in case they are wrong about the timing. First smart move they have made in a while when it comes to Apple. 

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post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes, it will have Siri integration for absolutely everything, and it might even have turn by turn. 

 

Actually knowing Apple it won't have either. At least not any more so than the current system has. And that lack of 'real' turn by turn with Siri voice feedback etc will be touted as the main failure for the system and why it sucks. 

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post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Actually knowing Apple it won't have either. At least not any more so than the current system has. And that lack of 'real' turn by turn with Siri voice feedback etc will be touted as the main failure for the system and why it sucks. 

 

"touted as the main failure for the system and why it sucks."

 

Exactly.

 

Stay tuned for the 6th generation iPhone though.

post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post
"touted as the main failure for the system and why it sucks."

 

Exactly.

 

Stay tuned for the 6th generation iPhone though.

 

Apple can't keep doing that and expect people to shower them with praise.

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post #58 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

What innovations has Google made?  The acquisitions Google made were brilliant and extended Google advertisements into location services quite effectively but they haven't made significant strides outside of those acquisitions.  

 

...

 

 

C3 Technologies had 3D maps for more than 100 cities more than one year ago.

 

Maps based on Apple technology rather than Google technology does not need to be as good as Google based Maps.  Maps simply needs to be "good enough" although the solution will far surpass that standard.  As I have already indicated in previous posts much of the technology in Maps is already based on technology from companies other than Google.

 

To the end user I don't think it matters if it was Google invented or Google acquired tech.

 

Good enough is also a very hard problem for maps. Just "Can I see my house?" requires massive amounts of up-to-date data. 

 

 

ps 100 cities sounds impressive but that probably includes lots of small cities. Just San Francisco and Silicon Valley is something like a dozen separate cities on its own.

post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think that is the concern: There will be no Google Maps on iOS. If Apple replaces the default maps application on iOS they will likely disallow Google from releasing a stand alone maps app as it would violate their rule of no app can duplicate core iOS functionality.


My concern would not be so much whether Google has a stand alone app, but how maps in general is integrated on the iPhone. I can receive an email with an address or click on address book and get driving, transit and walking directions, street view too. If the new map lost any of that functionality, then there would be a lot of complaining. The good thing is current iPhone users would not have to upgrade.

post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think that is the concern: There will be no Google Maps on iOS. If Apple replaces the default maps application on iOS they will likely disallow Google from releasing a stand alone maps app as it would violate their rule of no app can duplicate core iOS functionality.

 

 

My guess is that you'll be able to use the Google Maps iOS app that Google will likely release, but it won't be the default Maps application called by the iOS APIs.

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post #61 of 89

Google, or whatever, would still be browser available. Stick a bookmark icon on the desktop and you're golden.

post #62 of 89

Funny thing is

 

If it was Apple who had maps first, and then Samsung came out with Smaps, the entire internet would be all "OMFG, All Samsung can do is Copy"

 

But here we have Apple blatantly ripping off Google maps, and its all good. 

 

Makes sense.........

post #63 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc1138 View Post

Google, or whatever, would still be browser available. Stick a bookmark icon on the desktop and you're golden.

Except in browser google maps (and labels on them) are not high resolution enough for retina display and look rather aliased on iPad 3.

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post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Until Siri, voice commands were a gimmick and many, especially fAndroids, believe voice commands are still a gimmick although this difference may be due to the conversational interface with personalization, semantic analysis and context awareness.

 

 

LOL, you are kidding right?

 

Siri has at best 65% accuracy from what I have experienced. Words get jumbled all the time and I'm constantly kicked out to searching the web. So now i am forced to talk slowly and in perfect english. Not only that, but its much faster many times to just open the browser and type in a search than to say it to siri....wait a while....have it bring a result which isn't the one you want.....try again....wait a while.....have siri ask you if you want to search the web. 

 

Then you have the problem of siri being dependant on online data speed. 

 

Until voice communication is like talking to a human, i.e. you don't need to use perfect english (or some programmers idea of perfect english), it can detect and decifer dialect, and it can do so without the "wait a while period" and it gets it right the first time 99% of the time........voice is nothing but a gimmick. 

post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

 

Until voice communication is like talking to a human, i.e. you don't need to use perfect english (or some programmers idea of perfect english), it can detect and decifer dialect, and it can do so without the "wait a while period" and it gets it right the first time 99% of the time........voice is nothing but a gimmick. 

 

Siri is "like talking to a human."

 

No comment about your inability speak.  You have demonstrated my comments perfectly, "...voice commands were a gimmick and many, especially fAndroids, believe voice commands are still a gimmick..."

post #66 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post

 

To the end user I don't think it matters if it was Google invented or Google acquired tech.

 

Good enough is also a very hard problem for maps. Just "Can I see my house?" requires massive amounts of up-to-date data. 

 

 

ps 100 cities sounds impressive but that probably includes lots of small cities. Just San Francisco and Silicon Valley is something like a dozen separate cities on its own.

 

Please re-read the entire thread.  You risk posting more absurd comments.

post #67 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Siri is "like talking to a human."

No comment about your inability speak.  You have demonstrated my comments perfectly, "...voice commands were a gimmick and many, especially fAndroids, believe voice commands are still a gimmick..."

Isn't English spelled with a capital?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

And what is the world wide map coverage going to be like? How about street view, which is now available for an incredible number of cities around the world?

I hope this move by Apple doesn't put us back 20 years. It would be a reason enough for me to abandon the platform if the maps suck.

 

You could also not upgrade to the latest version of iOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Actually, I am expecting to be be blown away by something that far exceeds Google. Apple don't normally enter a new area, be it phones or tablets and now serious mapping, without making everything that went before obsolete.
Of course at first many won't get it, as with iPhone and the 'you can't type with two thumbs on a tiny plastic keyboard' that greeted it, so I fully expect many to scream for a year or two that Apple failed. Only when their favorite products start copying Apple will they change their tune. By which time of course the patent case will be going to court. .

True. The responses on the unveiling of the first iPad were also lukewarm: "it's just a big iPod touch"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Me too, however when you are an Apple fan you tend to have selective amnesia. Apple has made some crap too. Performa TV, inkjet printers , IIci, emate, emac,  even the first iMacs had a lot of hardware issues. 

Apart from the crap, they also tend to forget about things. Like putting volume hardware buttons on the first iPod touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I hope we see a new Mac Pro in a few weeks 1smile.gif

Please, yes! Not that I need a new one as I'm using the latest already. Still, just as a confirmation that they aren't abandoning it would be great.

I get a question mark instead of a picture on my iPad, was it a good one?
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post #68 of 89
Will the maps icon be updated to the new HQ location once it's finished?
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post #69 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
Will the maps icon be updated to the new HQ location once it's finished?

 

I'd hope so. I'm glad someone else thought of that.

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post #70 of 89
Expansion of choice is always good so hopefully users get to choose. However I hope Apple is at least caching OpenStreetMap rather than just free riding.
post #71 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by aBeliefSystem View Post

Expansion of choice is always good so hopefully users get to choose. However I hope Apple is at least caching OpenStreetMap rather than just free riding.

More like you hope they are NOT using openstreetmap. To this day they still misplell the name of my street. 

 

I live in barcant ave, not barcan ave, as openstreetmap insists. Bing and Google have it spot on though. 

 

That's in trinidad by the way. 

post #72 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

IIci??!

 

I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.

 

I think you got your model numbers mixed up.

 

IIsi maybe.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Really? I hated everything they released after the IIfx until the 9500. All those si ci xi were mediocre at best.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

IIci??!

 

I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.

 

I think you got your model numbers mixed up.

 

IIsi maybe.

 

FYI:

 

First, I would hardly call the Iici one of the modern era iMacs. Came from the genealogy of the Mac II and IIcx (the only outward diff between the IIci and the IIcx was the ports and the user was offered a faster clock for the CPU. The IIci had a direct slot that was designed to support a cache to up its performance. Apple re-engineered the Iicx so that it was exactly the same as the IIci and went thru all the testing done but decided to not introduce the newer IIcx which would have been about $75 in parts cost alone because the press at the time was saying that Apple was introducing computers and then killing them months later (would have been about 8 mod since first IIcx went out). The code name at release were Atlantic and Pacific but alas Pacific was the only one to live past testing. I also allowed Apple to continue to charge about a grand more of the Ilci than the Ilcx and differentiated the two with the available cache which as I remember was about $250 and gave you about an 8-12% bump in speed in the synthetic benchmarks. It also would haven only taken days for someone to hack a IIcx to figure out replacing a single clock chip gave them a IIci (<$1.00 part and some simple soldering to save a grand -- think people would have been pissed much to find that out). (BTW: I was at Apple at the time -- just a few months before the '89 California World Series aka the 7.2 Loma Prieta quake).

 

The IIci was one of the most cost effective and popular machines available and sold at a great clip even after the Mac IIfx was released since at the time RAM was very expensive and few needed the 3 extra NuBus slots and heftier power supply that came as part of the Mac IIfx although it was 'Wicked Fast' it had a price tag to match. Those of us that were developers or those doing photoshop type work and could also afford to max out the RAM were probably the primary consumers of the Mac IIfx.

 

University's loved the IIci for its balance of power, cost, and footprint -- even if it did cost upwards of $3500 with a video card and no monitor. I loved using them in a bind, supporting them and installing them both at the University and on our research vessel where space was was a premium.

 

A good Mac for sure but not an iMac.

post #73 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

IIci??!

 

I had a IIci for my business and it was one of the best computers I've ever used. Very easy to upgrade, fast and highly dependable. One of Apple's most successful computers.

 

I think you got your model numbers mixed up.

 

IIsi maybe.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Sorry I was thinking of the lc

Yuck! The performa were all different and there were so many different models numbers you could not compare any of them (but that was the point I guess). Its kind of like buying a mattress here in the US. You can go to a big name store at the mall or a furniture store and although they all have models that are very similar if you compare the specs the manufacturers change the names for the sellers so it is difficult to compare them and guarantees that no one can get the on the 'we will beat any other store with a lower price on the same model".

 

Then of course there was the follow on LC, LCii, and LCiii. Not to hard to tell why customers were confused about the product line in those days (thats without getting into the clone wars a bit latter).

post #74 of 89

The iPhone map app is very old.  The google maps on the Android is just way better.  I for one, can't wait for the iPhone map update.
 

post #75 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavy View Post

The iPhone map app is very old.  The google maps on the Android is just way better.  I for one, can't wait for the iPhone map update.

What do you mean by that? There are two distinct aspects to Maps on the iPhone. There is the app itself and there is Google backend that it pulls its data. Do you mean the app is "very old" or do you mean the data from Google is "very old?" Can you explain either case as compared to Android and what version of Android you are referring if the former?

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post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Apple today announced that it is launching it's own satellite to map the world.  It will be called iEye.  LOL.  


Maybe Apple is buying that second Spy Satalite that the National Reconnaissance Office gave NASA last year

 

http://za.omg.yahoo.com/news/u-spy-satellite-agency-gives-nasa-2-space-194916205.html

 

They wonder why the the NRC need such high power telescope, is so they and watch you pick your nose on your back porch.

 

Apple has the money to put these in space and map the earth and make some really cool high res images of your home.

post #77 of 89

Most (or should I say all) of the posters here are missing one important factor.

 

Apple might not have Maps as good as what Google has - it might not have StreetView coverage for as many cities worldwide as Google has - but that is besides the point. The point is, can Apple provide a solution that is many times better than the current Maps application on the iPhone? The answer to that is a resounding YES.

 

Maps on the iPhone is pathetic. There are no turn by turn directions. There is no Street View. There is no traffic capability. There is very basic functionality to do Geotagging, etc - you can at best bookmark locations on your device - cannot make your locations publicly available. Even simple functionality like getting GPS coordinates of any location is ridiculously complex in the current Maps app.

 

This is the low hurdle that Apple needs to cross - so obviously it is guaranteed that Apple will cross that hurdle easily. As for the Maps data itself, Open Street Map is for the most part a money issue, not a technology issue. With the support of Apple, it is very likely that OSM can improve the quality and accuracy of the maps tremendously.

 

Google is trying to steal Apple's thunder by announcing 3D Maps on June 6th - but really this does not matter. Apple is in a no loss situation here - whatever they come up with will be better than the current Maps app.

 

The only way for Google to steal Apple's thunder would be to launch a full blown version of Maps for iOS - with all the features that Android has. If Google does that, Apple's launch will be muted - because no one would want a version from Apple that has lesser features and lesser accuracy than the Google version. But even if this happens, it is a win-win for Apple's customers - and therefore for Apple itself!

post #78 of 89
1) Can Apple just license Street View from Google?

2) I've hear that their C3 mapping system can mimic what Street View does but I can't see it. Can someone explain how?

3) Possibility that Apple has had unmarked vehicles doing their own Street View mapping for a couple years now?

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post #79 of 89

Google maps not only have street view, but it also provides driving, transit and biking routes on their maps. Very nice.

post #80 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

 

Please re-read the entire thread.  You risk posting more absurd comments.

 

? ? ? ?

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