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September launch of 'iPad mini' seen boosting education sales - Page 3

post #81 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Jesus Christ! You just don't get it do you. It has nothing to do with size. It's about market segmentation. Having a product option that meets everyone's needs. Look through Apple's product catalogue - in just about every respect they have a entry level model, mid range mass market model and an expensive high end model. Again something for everyone. It's basic level marketing / product management.

 

They don't need to bring out an iPhone Nano coz they already have a cheaper iPhone - the 3GS and 4.

 

But they don't have a product to satisfy the market segment between the 3.5" iPod and the 10" iPad. An iPad Mini would open a whole new market segment for Apple to sell into.

 

A 7" iPad Mini only makes sense if Apple moves from the "make your UI look good in these TWO resolution/aspect ratios" to "make your UI look good in ANY resolution/aspect ratio".

 

There's a very nice simplicity to knowing that my iPad layout is always 1024x768 and my iPhone layout is always 480x320.  Points, not pixels.  

 

This is in comparison to what I need to do in Android with layouts which does the latter above.

 

From a market segmentation perspective the $199 iPod Touch is a mere $200 below a new iPad 2 and only $120 less than a refurb iPad 2 @ $319.

 

In my mind the primary competitor for the iPod Touch is the PSP, 3DS and Kindle Fire.  A 5" iPod Touch would neatly fill the gap between the iPod Touch and iPad without hurting the iPad brand.  I'm really hoping that's what all those rumored 4" panels are for and that they are on the high end of 4" (like 4.75")

post #82 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

That's because the current ones on the market are shit.  The low sales of any tablets before iPad would have suggested there wasn't a market for tablets at all, but the iPad proved otherwise.   People don't know what they want until you show them it.

Personally, if they release a 7" iPad, I'll buy one.  My wife has an iPad 3, and while I like it, for reading it's hopeless in comparison to the Kindle.  I know the Kindle is a single use device and hence should be better at that one thing than the iPad, but I find the iPad 3 too heavy for reading and in truth it's form factor is just uncomfortable to hold for a long period of time (if I support it from the bottom, because the edge of it is quite pointed, the pressure isn't nice).

I'd love to see Apple come out with something that is able to do more than Kindle, but can be comfortably held in one hand for a long period of time.

Owning a 7" tablet, must say that all current 7" are too heavy. If Apple could make this 7-8" thing with 8 hr battery life and weigh 2/3 lb, they would have made a unique and useful product.
post #83 of 102
A smaller iPad would be ideal for doctors, dentists, and others who need a pocket sized tablet for their work.
post #84 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

How can you reference things Apple haven't done? That make no sense.

It makes more sense to look at what they have done in the past and ask the question will they follow that same logic again in the future.

Apple had a very successful product in the iPod but they still chose to release a smaller, lighter, cheaper model in the iPod Nano. Why did they do that? Simple because they recognised that the MP3 player marketplace had become fragmented and they wanted to make sure they had a device in each segment so they could dominate the marketplace across the board (hence the iPod Classic, iPod Touch, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle).

It's why we have 3 iPhones to chose from and 3 MBPs and 2 MBAs, etc, etc.

It's called product diversification and Apple have a long history of doing it so it's logical to assume that they will also do it with the iPad. Personally I don't think they will stop with an iPad Nano, in a year or two when they can make it we will see a larger iPad as well.


A larger iPad is not going to happen, at least not using current technology because such a device would be too heavy for handheld use. The current iPad could benefit from a weight reduction so a bigger heavier iPad is a no go.

In the case of a smaller iPad, the problem is that the overall user experience would be greatly diminished and yet you're still not talking about a device that is significantly more portable.

Apple has been successful by making products that consumers like after they purchase them, as opposed to coming up with products that look appealing on paper only. Consumers will be willing to pay more for something that has the Apple name on it because they have come to expect that the chances of experiencing buyer's remorse are greatly diminished.

Apple ignored the whole netbook market, sort of. While competitors scrambled to put out $200 laptops, Apple developed the iPad and brought out a $500 alternative that is a sales success the likes of which the computer market has never seen before. The iPad is a success precisely because it just works, makes sense as is.

Having gotten it right the first tme, why mess around. There is a simple reason why a smaller iPad as in a 7-inch model is not going to happen - diminished user experience. If consumers find they like that version a lot less than the current one, and they would, this would hurt Apple's reputation. That translates to lost sales and since Apple sells an eco-system of sorts, that would be disastrous.
post #85 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstark View Post

A smaller iPad would be ideal for doctors, dentists, and others who need a pocket sized tablet for their work.

A 7" iPad is not pocketable. At least not in pants. A coat pocket? Sure. But who is going to carry a phone AND a 7" iPad?

So by that point, if you are committed to carrying a bag anyway why settle for a smaller iPad and diminish the experience?
post #86 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Having gotten it right the first tme, why mess around. There is a simple reason why a smaller iPad as in a 7-inch model is not going to happen - diminished user experience. If consumers find they like that version a lot less than the current one, and they would, this would hurt Apple's reputation. That translates to lost sales and since Apple sells an eco-system of sorts, that would be disastrous.

You keep saying that, but it's still wrong.

By your logic, Apple shouldn't sell a 21" iMac. The user experience is less than a 27" iMac. And they shouldn't sell a base model iPad - it's not as good as the 64 GB model. And no way they should sell an 11" MBA or 13" MBP since the user experience with these isn't as good as a 17" MBP.

There are situations where a 7" iPad would be just fine. Some people have publicly stated that they'd even prefer it over a 10" model.
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post #87 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronstark View Post

A smaller iPad would be ideal for doctors, dentists, and others who need a pocket sized tablet for their work.


The physicians I know with iPads (and I know several) are very happy with the 10" size.  Running electronic medical records on a 7" would likely be a pain in the ass.  As for dentists, I have no idea why they'd care.  My dentist has used iMacs in his practice for years and has an iMac in every room for reviewing records and taking digital x-rays.  I don't see how an iPad would be practical for that kind of practice.  I really don't think the professional world is clamoring for smaller format tablets.

post #88 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You keep saying that, but it's still wrong.
By your logic, Apple shouldn't sell a 21" iMac. The user experience is less than a 27" iMac. And they shouldn't sell a base model iPad - it's not as good as the 64 GB model. And no way they should sell an 11" MBA or 13" MBP since the user experience with these isn't as good as a 17" MBP.
There are situations where a 7" iPad would be just fine. Some people have publicly stated that they'd even prefer it over a 10" model.

Not so. The small MBAs are perfect for many customers. As such, they make sense. The user experience is an excellent one and falls well within the expectations of the customers buying those devices. On the other hand, I argue that it's impossible to make a tablet like the iPad enjoyable to use with a much smaller screen.

Yes, Apple makes the Touch/iPhone which are, like the iPad, touchscreen devices but the expectations for those devices are dramatically different than would be the case for a tablet too large to simply pocket or employ as a phone. As phones go or as pocket computers go, the iPhone and Touch are good products and are perceived as such with the understanding that portability comes at a price. This is not what would happen with any product Apple applied the iPad name to and then proceeded to cripple with a screen that is just plain flat out too small. Too small for proper media consumption. Too small for pleasurable gaming. Too small for comfortable reading. Too small for comfortable browsing. And so on and so on.

Seems to me the problem is that some think they want some spec or feature but they don't consider the price to be paid for getting it. There are trade-offs worth making. A 10-inch screen on a smartphone would be problematic. If you're not doing the sort of work that makes the screen real estate and horsepower of a 17-inch MacBook Pro must-have features, the Air laptops are excellent options. But a smaller iPad would involve dramatic downgrades in the quality of the overall user experience yet inconsequential gains. You gain less than $100 in purchase price. You have a somewhat lighter device. Some women could slip it into some purses and the rest of us have no more portability than with the current iPad. If the resulting product were only marginally weakened in terms of overall user experience, I could see the value of such a device but we're talking a transformational reduction in user experience. It would be akin to taking an A- experience and lowering it to a C+. Apple doesn't do C+. A C+ product never gets out of the lab.

Yes there are varying grades of performance in Apple's laptop range and with its desktops. But they all make sense, they all are likely to make their respective owners happy. You don't buy a base Mac Mini and lament that it can't run as fast as a Mac Pro tower. A smaller tablet, however, would not be regarded in the same way. The expectation would be that the iPad experience remain intact. It can't, not on a 7-inch screen. As such Apple loses far more than gains from releasing such a device. This is how Jobs saw it and he made no secret of it. Nothing has changed. It was a bad idea then and it still is.
post #89 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post

A 7" iPad is not pocketable. At least not in pants. A coat pocket? Sure. But who is going to carry a phone AND a 7" iPad?
So by that point, if you are committed to carrying a bag anyway why settle for a smaller iPad and diminish the experience?

You were responding to someone who mentioned doctors and dentists (I'd add researchers). These people wear white lab coats with pockets easily large enough for a 7" iPad. But probably not large enough for a 10" iPad.

I'm just curious - lots of people have specifically stated that they would prefer a 7" iPad (some of them would do so even at the same price). Or, you can look at the market where people have a choice (Android) where about 1/2 of the purchases are at 7".

So, what kind of ego is it that makes you so sure that there's no place for a 7" iPad even with people saying they want one? Has it ever occurred to you that other people might not see things the same way that you do?
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post #90 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You were responding to someone who mentioned doctors and dentists (I'd add researchers). These people wear white lab coats with pockets easily large enough for a 7" iPad. But probably not large enough for a 10" iPad.
I'm just curious - lots of people have specifically stated that they would prefer a 7" iPad (some of them would do so even at the same price). Or, you can look at the market where people have a choice (Android) where about 1/2 of the purchases are at 7".
So, what kind of ego is it that makes you so sure that there's no place for a 7" iPad even with people saying they want one? Has it ever occurred to you that other people might not see things the same way that you do?

You're right. Make the 7" iPad for doctors. That is a HUGE market!!!

Okay, half the Android tablet purchases are 7". Well that accounts for a whopping 15% of tablets sold, assuming the iPad has a 70% market share.

Plus the fact that who is going to carry a 5" phone plus a 7" iPad?

A 7" tablet is not as portable as people think it is when you consider that you are still going to carry a phone. So if you decide that it isn't that portable then just get a regular iPad to use at home anyway. The "Phablet" market is a designer niche market that I just dont think Apple will chase.

There are plenty of 7" tablets out there, why don't you own one?
post #91 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You were responding to someone who mentioned doctors and dentists (I'd add researchers). These people wear white lab coats with pockets easily large enough for a 7" iPad. But probably not large enough for a 10" iPad.
I'm just curious - lots of people have specifically stated that they would prefer a 7" iPad (some of them would do so even at the same price). Or, you can look at the market where people have a choice (Android) where about 1/2 of the purchases are at 7".
So, what kind of ego is it that makes you so sure that there's no place for a 7" iPad even with people saying they want one? Has it ever occurred to you that other people might not see things the same way that you do?

People say they want Flash but Flash on an iPad isn't going to happen and I don't think it matters. As for the fact that there are lots of 7-inch tablets sold in Android tablets, that may be because most of the tablets offered in that form are 7-inch models.

I can assure you that all those people requesting a 7-inch tablet would expect no downside in going with a smaller screen. As such, when using such an iPad proved less enjoyable, it would all be Apple's fault. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, professionals are embracing the iPad as is so the size can't be that much of a problem for them.
post #92 of 102
I may be wrong, but I have to assume that most of those who are claiming that a 7" iPad isn't significantly more portable are male. From a female perspective (for example, from my perspective), a 7" device (be it an iPad Mini or a Touch Maxi or whatever other horrible feminine-protection themed name you call it) is *hugely* more portable for a woman who carries a purse. I have a Kindle -- old-style, not a Fire -- and it lives in my purse, all the time. I carry it everywhere and use it a lot. That said, I don't really want my Kindle; I want an iPad. But I need one that will fit in my bag, and the current iPads just don't. And, no, I'm not going to invest hundreds of dollars to replace my bags, which I love, for some huge nasty back-breaking satchels. I don't know what percentage of iPad users are female, but I know that a medium-sized Apple device will be a hit with the professional women I know. Guys, keep in mind that you are just half the population! I hope like hell the iPad Mini rumors are true, because I'll be first in line to buy one. I don't care about its resolution, I don't care what it costs; I just want an iPad I can fit in my frigging purse.
post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post


People say they want Flash but Flash on an iPad isn't going to happen and I don't think it matters. As for the fact that there are lots of 7-inch tablets sold in Android tablets, that may be because most of the tablets offered in that form are 7-inch models.
I can assure you that all those people requesting a 7-inch tablet would expect no downside in going with a smaller screen. As such, when using such an iPad proved less enjoyable, it would all be Apple's fault. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, professionals are embracing the iPad as is so the size can't be that much of a problem for them.

 

Still with that bullshit, eh.

 

That's right, when I go from using my 27" iMac to my 13" mbp I expect there to be no difference whatsoever [... and using the 13" mbp has ruined my experience with Apple products forever].

 

Oh boy... do you guys ever get down from your perch...

 

[ I wonder if it ever occurs to these guys that some of these people will be moving up in size from only using a smartphone. That market is obviously huge (people who have smartphones but do not have tablets). By their own admission, bigger is apparently bigger. Therefore these people will enjoy the experience of going from 3.5~4.65 to a smaller iPad and be truly satisfied]


Edited by island hermit - 7/8/12 at 7:03am
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post #94 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That's right, when I go from using my 27" iMac to my 13" mbp I expect there to be no difference whatsoever

The difference here is that you're incredibly intelligent, whereas most people aren't. You're informed, you pay attention to this stuff, the general public does not. You know what you're getting into. John Q. Public thinks and demands a smaller device be identical to a larger one, despite the size.

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post #95 of 102
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

That's right, when I go from using my 27" iMac to my 13" mbp I expect there to be no difference whatsoever
The difference here is that you're incredibly intelligent, whereas most people aren't. You're informed, you pay attention to this stuff, the general public does not. You know what you're getting into. John Q. Public thinks and demands a smaller device be identical to a larger one, despite the size.

 

Apple products are sold to everyone but, from what I've read, the average Apple buyer is better educated than most... so I wouldn't underestimate them or Apple's marketing ability.

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post #96 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

…from what I've read, the average Apple buyer is better educated than most…

Oh, you'd be surprised. lol.gif

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post #97 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Apple products are sold to everyone but, from what I've read, the average Apple buyer is better educated than most... so I wouldn't underestimate them or Apple's marketing ability.

That's an interesting statement. Anecdotally, I'd say that the least technically savvy people I know have move to Apple products because they are so simple to use and that the most technically savvy people I know also use Apple products because they are simplest while also being the most powerful thus allowing them to do more work faster.

As for educated, I'm not sure what you mean by that. The least technically savvy people I know are, hands down, the most learned and formally educated people I know. In fact, these people are so well educated and wise that they come to me for computer-releated advice and assistance. 😷

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #98 of 102
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That's an interesting statement. Anecdotally, I'd say that the least technically savvy people I know have move to Apple products because they are so simple to use and that the most technically savvy people I know also use Apple products because they are simplest while also being the most powerful thus allowing them to do more work faster.
As for educated, I'm not sure what you mean by that. The least technically savvy people I know are, hands down, the most learned and formally educated people I know. In fact, these people are so well educated and wise that they come to me for computer-releated advice and assistance. 😷

 

Education usually teaches people how to think. Anecdotally I've found that to be the case and, I'm sure, if I did a bit of searching I'd find statistics to back that up. A person who has learned to think can usually discern that there will be differences when moving from one size of device to another. If they are unsure of the trade-offs then, usually, a thinking person will ask questions... and, like you, that much I know.

 

[ I've also read statistics showing that a high percentage of Apple users are also high wage earners. Earning big $$$ doesn't automatically equate to high intelligence but I can almost guarantee you that it most often equates to education and the ability to think. ]

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post #99 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

[ I've also read statistics showing that a high percentage of Apple users are also high wage earners. Earning big $$$ doesn't automatically equate to high intelligence but I can almost guarantee you that it most often equates to education and the ability to think. ]

I'd qualify that statement to refer to a given culture or demographic. For example, just by the shear (for lack of a better term) nature of nature there are brilliant people born into very poor societies that will never have the opportunity as we do even discuss such topics on something as prevalent and workaday as an internet forum because they are spending all their free time just trying to maintain the lowest levels of Maslow's Hierarchy for themselves and their family.

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post #100 of 102
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Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I'd qualify that statement to refer to a given culture or demographic. For example, just by the shear (for lack of a better term) nature of nature there are brilliant people born into very poor societies that will never have the opportunity as we do even discuss such topics on something as prevalent and workaday as an internet forum because they are spending all their free time just trying to maintain the lowest levels of Maslow's Hierarchy for themselves and their family.

 

I thought it was qualified just by saying "Apple users" [I meant to say Apple customers].... that was the given culture/demographic.

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post #101 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I thought it was qualified just by saying "Apple users" .... that was the given culture/demographic.

Yes, you did. Mea culpa.

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post #102 of 102
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Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

 

Still with that bullshit, eh.

 

That's right, when I go from using my 27" iMac to my 13" mbp I expect there to be no difference whatsoever [... and using the 13" mbp has ruined my experience with Apple products forever].

 

Oh boy... do you guys ever get down from your perch...

 

[ I wonder if it ever occurs to these guys that some of these people will be moving up in size from only using a smartphone. That market is obviously huge (people who have smartphones but do not have tablets). By their own admission, bigger is apparently bigger. Therefore these people will enjoy the experience of going from 3.5~4.65 to a smaller iPad and be truly satisfied]

 

A 7" tablet running the iPhone OS layout is larger and usable.  A 7" tablet running the iPad layout is probably too small.

 

A 1920x1280 7" iPod Touch would be pretty amazing but ain't happening.  I wonder if scaling iPhone apps to 1440x960 is viable.

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