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Mac workplace penetration loosens Window's stranglehold on enterprise

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
While the enterprise market remains a predominantly Windows-based environment, Macs are creeping into the workplace as the popularity of tablets driven by Apple's iPad slowly erodes the walls of Microsoft's once-impenetrable fortress.

Analyst Michael Silver, a Gartner Research vice president and research director, outlined the firm's outlook on the enterprise desktop space saying that not only is Window's dominance being threatened by tablets, but a shift in user demand is pushing an influx of Macs into the workplace, reports MacWorld.

Silver hedged his statements, saying that while IT managers can no longer ignore Apple's platform, "[the desktop] is still 90-something percent Windows," and "thin clients will have 4 percent or so by the end of the year."

Estimates see Mac's share of the enterprise market hovering at around 5 percent, but the consumerization of IT is slowly forcing companies to accept Apple's products as part of the everyday workflow. According to Gartner research, 60 percent of companies currently don't allow Macs in the office, though the tide is changing as 64 percent of businesses will likely allow them to be adopted over the next few years.

Leading the charge in bringing the Mac into the workplace is a combination of demand for Apple's mobile devices and a more affordable computing options for OS X. A recent study from Good Technology found that the top-six most-activated devices in enterprise were all Apple products, with the iPhone and iPad accounting for 79 percent of total activations.

Macs in Enterprise


Traditional views frown upon Apple's computer system because of higher perceived costs associated with using the platform. "It used to be, 'How do we keep Macs out,'" Silver said, but the prices have come down and the playing field has evened out.

While an average Mac setup runs $1,622, a Windows machine costs $1,513 and software makers charge slightly more for Apple-centric products. Average IT labor expenditure for Macs is lower with $636 compared to Windows' $781, however companies report a wide variety of experiences in this department.

Silver notes that the days of saying "no" to Mac in enterprise are coming to an end as Apple computers are seeing a surge in popularity with upper management and executives.

"Saying 'no' could be a career-ending decision," Silver said.
post #2 of 36
Mac + Support: $2,258
WinPC + Support: $2,294

Does that include the actual costs for apps, like virus protection, or is that just for the base purchase.

Also, that's about double the average WinPC cost for consumers if I remember correctly. Surely a business can't be buying those $400 desktops and notebooks you find at pretty much every store with an electronics department but that still seems higher than expected. I wonder if "Windows machine" also refers to Win servers.

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post #3 of 36

This just in....

 

IDC predicts Windows will dominate enterprise with a 100% market share by 2016.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #4 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

This just in....

IDC predicts Windows will dominate enterprise with a 100% market share by 2016.

If we're using the IDC's rationale we'll have to predict that iPads replace nearly all Windows Servers by 2016.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #5 of 36
Just give it a few more years for today's 20-somethings to become corporate warriors.

Tables will be turned.
post #6 of 36

Given a *choice*, what employee actually *wants* to use Windows?

 

It's something we've had to put up with for years. That basically describes Windows and all its parts: something to be put up with. 

 

But this isn't the same market we saw 10-15 years ago.

 

Funny thing is, MS still thinks it is. 

post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Tables will be turned.

 

Microsoft's current priority is that the tablets will be turned. Unfortunately, Windows 8 is still unusable on the desktop, much less in the tablet space.

 

All those tablets and computers we're seeing… Is Windows 8 out now? Have they released it, or have those machines just been announced? Because I'm using the Consumer Preview and… it's not… good. At all. The nicest I can say about it is it's in pre-alpha. They've changed too much too incorrectly for it to be accepted by consumer users, much less businesses users.

 

And it refuses to recognize my 4870 (and ATI refuses to make Windows 8 drivers for that card), so every time I boot into Windows, it shows up 640x480 stretched on my 27" Cinema Display. Oh, the driver that I have installed WORKS, but this is what I have to do to get it to work properly: I have to click the welcome image, type in my password, hit Enter, scroll over to Control Panel, open Hardware, click Devices, click my computer in that list, click Components, click the 4870, click the Administrator button, click the Drivers tab, click "Update", click "Search the Internet for updates", wait for it to download and install, click OK, THEN… this is the… THEN… I have to click "Revert" to go back to the driver I was just on. Then the screen goes black and comes back 2560x1440, perfectly fine.

 

Yes, it's a "preview", but come on. lol.gif Is this how Windows really is all the time? "Oh, I don't know what resolutions this thing supports and I'm too stupid to check on my own, so I'll assume it only does 640x480 and refuse to allow users to change that at all."

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Given a *choice*, what employee actually *wants* to use Windows?

It's something we've had to put up with for years. That basically describes Windows and all its parts: something to be put up with. 

But this isn't the same market we saw 10-15 years ago.

Funny thing is, MS still thinks it is. 

I don't think the problem has ever been with the OS, but with the HW. Not that Macs are more expensive than a comparably 'PC' but you have absolutely zero options once you go all in with Apple. When you use Windows, for better and worse, you can have PC vendors lessening their profit margins considerably to get that large account. There is simply no incentive for Apple to fight tooth and nail once you're a Mac OS shop. I'm seeing a slow change but the dynamics of their business models are so diverse that until the OS is 100% agnostic of the apps and users get an allowance toward a machine I can't see Apple dominating with Macs in the enterprise. That said, I sure would love to see it.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Microsoft's current priority is that the tablets will be turned. Unfortunately, Windows 8 is still unusable on the desktop, much less in the tablet space.

 

All those tablets and computers we're seeing… Is Windows 8 out now? Have they released it, or have those machines just been announced? Because I'm using the Consumer Preview and… it's not… good. At all. The nicest I can say about it is it's in pre-alpha. They've changed too much too incorrectly for it to be accepted by consumer users, much less businesses users.

 

And it refuses to recognize my 4870 (and ATI refuses to make Windows 8 drivers for that card), so every time I boot into Windows, it shows up 640x480 stretched on my 27" Cinema Display. Oh, the driver that I have installed WORKS, but this is what I have to do to get it to work properly: I have to click the welcome image, type in my password, hit Enter, scroll over to Control Panel, open Hardware, click Devices, click my computer in that list, click Components, click the 4870, click the Administrator button, click the Drivers tab, click "Update", click "Search the Internet for updates", wait for it to download and install, click OK, THEN… this is the… THEN… I have to click "Revert" to go back to the driver I was just on. Then the screen goes black and comes back 2560x1440, perfectly fine.

 

Yes, it's a "preview", but come on. lol.gif Is this how Windows really is all the time? "Oh, I don't know what resolutions this thing supports and I'm too stupid to check on my own, so I'll assume it only does 640x480 and refuse to allow users to change that at all."

 

Too bad Microsoft keeps thinking Apple 2012 will become Apple 1985. That mistake was resolved and this corporation is only going to evolve and expand.

post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Just give it a few more years for today's 20-somethings to become corporate warriors.
Tables will be turned.

This is especially true since Microsoft has been absent from the phone and tablet market for nearly six of those twenty-something's lives. Microsoft is not as well known to this new generation as is Apple. In addition, Microsoft has gained a tarnished image and is thought of as stodgy and behind-the-times. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I don't think the problem has ever been with the OS, but with the HW. Not that Macs are more expensive than a comparably 'PC' but you have absolutely zero options once you go all in with Apple. When you use Windows, for better and worse, you can have PC vendors lessening their profit margins considerably to get that large account. There is simply no incentive for Apple to fight tooth and nail once you're a Mac OS shop. I'm seeing a slow change but the dynamics of their business models are so diverse that until the OS is 100% agnostic of the apps and users get an allowance toward a machine I can't see Apple dominating with Macs in the enterprise. That said, I sure would love to see it.

Do you know that enterprise has had NO ability to get competitive prices on their "big iron"? IBM quote a price and that's it. It's worked for IBM for decades and it works for dozens of other manufactures outside of the technology industry. 

 

Furthermore, when the price is squeezed too much, the quality of the after-market support suffers. Computers are now like smart phones in that the cost of ownership is more important than the initial purchase cost, and Macs rule in that category. 

 

When computers cost several thousand dollars, it was more important to consider initial purchase costs... those days are gone. 

 

Ding, Dong, the witch is dead!

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #12 of 36

I have a couple of good friends that own a GM dealership in British Columbia, and this year they have switched all servers and front end computers to Mac where they could, they also laid off a full time IT person in the process.

 

While I am sure some peoples milage may vary when it comes to Mac support; in my own experience in the oilfield where we have also done the same, Apple has manage to make lots of year over year savings when we can let IT people go.

post #13 of 36
Quote:
"...and software makers charge slightly more for Apple-centric products."

 

Oh? I take "Apple-centric" to mean just that: software that concentrates on the Mac platform first, not Mac versions of PC software like Office and PhotoShop.

 

Therefore, Apple-centric software is hugely less expensive to accomplish the same tasks head to head, and more productive to boot:

 

iWork vs Office

Pixelmator vs PhotoShop

FCP vs Avid

Server Software and licenses per seat

etc.


Edited by krabbelen - 6/6/12 at 11:59pm
post #14 of 36

In my organisation we tried to introduce MACs, but the users rebelled and now we have to install Windows 7.  They couldn't cope with OSX said it was too hard to learn. After days of training they still couldn't work out how to burn a CD.  Go figure! - It has got me really frustrated as I have to see the world change on the outside as people move to MAC but the staff still want their Windows......Hummpf!

post #15 of 36

I was at an Apple store not too long ago and overheard someone basically was at the point where they were getting ready to take their Windows computer and take a sledge hammer to it.  When you have people going to the Microsoft stores and the way they attract customers is having their employees perform the dumbest dance I have ever seen in my life makes me think Microsoft is in real trouble.    There are videos of this and it has to be the most embarrassing thing to see.

 

How would you like it, if you are a CEO or CIO of a decent sized company that walks into a Microsoft store to buy something for his/her home computer and the employees are dancing in the store making a total spectacle of themselves to attract customers?  I would be embarrassed that I used Windows.  I wouldn't walk to the Apple Store, I would run as fast as I could.  i think Apple is like some fast food restaurant with employees wearing funny costumes.

post #16 of 36
It's not o much learning OSX as it is unlearning Windows.
post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player View Post

I have a couple of good friends that own a GM dealership in British Columbia, and this year they have switched all servers and front end computers to Mac where they could, they also laid off a full time IT person in the process.

 

While I am sure some peoples milage may vary when it comes to Mac support; in my own experience in the oilfield where we have also done the same, Apple has manage to make lots of year over year savings when we can let IT people go.

 

More high-tech jobs destroyed. Great.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

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post #18 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Also, that's about double the average WinPC cost for consumers if I remember correctly. Surely a business can't be buying those $400 desktops and notebooks you find at pretty much every store with an electronics department but that still seems higher than expected.

 

My experience with enterprise is that they buy the cheapest, nastiest $400 PCs... and then insist on buying an outrageously expensive support contract to go with them. Or, even worse, they rent the PCs for ridiculous price. The same happens in government. It's tragic.

post #19 of 36
I am getting the sense that Macs are close to infiltrating the company where I work. Most of the senior executives have Macs at home, and multiple new employees have requested them at work. The former head of our IT group has implicitly been demoted and I suspect part of that might have to do with his stubborn refusal to accept Macs (and other aspects of the 21st century).

It could be that the next big growth story for Apple will not be in television, but rather, Macs in the workplace. And Tim Cook is really the perfect person to be leading Apple for such a push.
post #20 of 36
Have to disagree with the administration economy on Macs though; you have to hit a critical mass to make that work. The initial <5 units will take a good amount of money to iron out the bugs on the server end.

I still haven't figured out how to deal with umask on a Samba server after the Leopard update. (Anybody know? File permissions are set at 755 from Mac despite being "forced" by samba to 777 or 775.)
post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Given a *choice*, what employee actually *wants* to use Windows?

 

It's something we've had to put up with for years. That basically describes Windows and all its parts: something to be put up with. 

 

But this isn't the same market we saw 10-15 years ago.

 

Funny thing is, MS still thinks it is. 

I agree with you in your conclusion re MS. However you need to understand that there are still a vast number - probably a large  majority - of people who think that Windows OS is better or at least cheaper. They still believe the old propaganda that Macs are limited/toys/not-compatible.

post #22 of 36

One of these days Apple will release an alternative to Exchange Server at a price in line with their OS X server, and MS will really slip into obscurity. The server and mail server software are real cash cows for MS. Apple could make money on the product and still underprice them by 80%

post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by K0rmoran1066 View Post

In my organisation we tried to introduce MACs, but the users rebelled and now we have to install Windows 7.  They couldn't cope with OSX said it was too hard to learn. After days of training they still couldn't work out how to burn a CD.  Go figure! - It has got me really frustrated as I have to see the world change on the outside as people move to MAC but the staff still want their Windows......Hummpf!

Hold on ... which organization is that? I just want to know so I can be sure to avoid ever buying products and/or services from them.

 

"After days of training they still couldn't work out how to burn a CD." ... Zuh? Seriously? So after days of training they literally couldn't figure out [or remember] how to right-click a folder or file and select "Burn '<insert_item_name_here>' to Disk...". For cripes sake, after that it even automatically pops up messages and leads you by the hand (no choices or options, just tells you what to do to make it happen) with phrasing like "To begin, insert a blank disk." and tells you how big the disk needs to be.

 

Does your organization only employ those with severe cognitive disabilities?

post #24 of 36

Why are the users requesting the workstations? Are they supporting them? Are they paying for them? It is managment that decides what computer is purchased. As far as cost, we just buy $400 workstations that run windows perfectly. They are considered throwaways. Run it for as long as it runs, and if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. So far we have had very little issues with them. Its not like Apple's never break. And we don't need OSX just to run office which is what most users only use anyway. I personally cannot use OSX as I am a developer and most of the software that I use (developing software and middle ware) only runs on Windows so that is a no go. 

 

I have a MBA and love it. But what I love is the form factor, not nessessarly OSX.  If it had Windows, I would be just as happy or maybe more so because then I would not have to run some VM software to run apps I have that are not on OSX.

 

Mac has a long way before they will be the computer of choice in business.

 

As far as how easy or hard things are to do in OSX, yes there are things people need to "unlearn" from years of Windows but one thing that business users do all the time is manage files and OSX just sucks just trying to copy and paste file or move them compared to Windows. Can't believe how backwards this simplest of processes is to do in OSX.

post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post

Hold on ... which organization is that? I just want to know so I can be sure to avoid ever buying products and/or services from them.

 

"After days of training they still couldn't work out how to burn a CD." ... Zuh? Seriously? So after days of training they literally couldn't figure out [or remember] how to right-click a folder or file and select "Burn '<insert_item_name_here>' to Disk...". For cripes sake, after that it even automatically pops up messages and leads you by the hand (no choices or options, just tells you what to do to make it happen) with phrasing like "To begin, insert a blank disk." and tells you how big the disk needs to be.

 

Does your organization only employ those with severe cognitive disabilities?

Maybe if they used Macs instead of MACS they could figure it out?

post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightknight View Post

 

More high-tech jobs destroyed. Great.

 

If you think office tech support is a high tech job you are a bit behind the times.  It's about as high tech as the Maytag man is.

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post #27 of 36

"Mac workplace penetration loosens Window's stranglehold on enterprise"

 

What is this "Window" that is strangling the enterprise?

post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac'em X View Post

"Mac workplace penetration loosens Window's stranglehold on enterprise"

 

What is this "Window" that is strangling the enterprise?

 

Have you not ever read the enterprise licensing terms for Microsoft products?

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post #29 of 36
The organization I work for Is a government organization, staff whipped themselves into such a frenzy of doubt and fear about the Apples that people would froth at the mouth with anger or go off sick when they thought they were going to be deployed a Mac. The IT guys were seriously shocked. Staff even thought they would get burnt from using mac laptops and the network would run more slowly when Apples were put onto the network. Now every time there is a problem printing or a network outage, no matter what the cause, it's the Apples that are at fault, and most of the time this is from areas of the business who don't even have Apple machines...1smile.gif

I cry in despair ! 1frown.gif
Edited by K0rmoran1066 - 6/8/12 at 5:50am
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

This is especially true since Microsoft has been absent from the phone and tablet market for nearly six of those twenty-something's lives. Microsoft is not as well known to this new generation as is Apple. In addition, Microsoft has gained a tarnished image and is thought of as stodgy and behind-the-times. 

 

Really?  Never played XBox?

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by midmichman105 View Post

Why are the users requesting the workstations? Are they supporting them? Are they paying for them? It is managment that decides what computer is purchased. 

 

From an enterprise perspective the TCO is the important aspect.  We're a mixed shop with about 30% macs (and growing) and 70% windows.  We let users decide which they want to have within their $X budget because folks are happier that way.  But who the hell needs happy employees?

 

 

Quote:

As far as cost, we just buy $400 workstations that run windows perfectly. They are considered throwaways. Run it for as long as it runs, and if it breaks, throw it away and get a new one. So far we have had very little issues with them. Its not like Apple's never break. And we don't need OSX just to run office which is what most users only use anyway. 

 

 

We find that $400 PCs (not workstations...there are no $400 workstations that I'm aware of) run like ass with all the enterprise software we need to put on them.  Saving a few hundred dollars/users (call it $1.5M CAPEX per 3 year replacement cycle) and impacting productivity across 5000+ employees is a stupid tradeoff.  The labor hours cost far more and $300 is less than a day's worth of work. 

 

Quote:

I personally cannot use OSX as I am a developer and most of the software that I use (developing software and middle ware) only runs on Windows so that is a no go. 

 

I have a MBA and love it. But what I love is the form factor, not nessessarly OSX.  If it had Windows, I would be just as happy or maybe more so because then I would not have to run some VM software to run apps I have that are not on OSX.

 

Mac has a long way before they will be the computer of choice in business.

 

As far as how easy or hard things are to do in OSX, yes there are things people need to "unlearn" from years of Windows but one thing that business users do all the time is manage files and OSX just sucks just trying to copy and paste file or move them compared to Windows. Can't believe how backwards this simplest of processes is to do in OSX.

 

I do windows development on my MBP and VMs work just fine as long as you have enough RAM.  I'm also not impressed by a dev that can't set up Bootcamp on his MBA if he wants to predominantly run Windows.  There were months on my old MBP that I never booted into OSX.

post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

From an enterprise perspective the TCO is the important aspect.  We're a mixed shop with about 30% macs (and growing) and 70% windows.  We let users decide which they want to have within their $X budget because folks are happier that way.  But who the hell needs happy employees?

 

 

 

 

We find that $400 PCs (not workstations...there are no $400 workstations that I'm aware of) run like ass with all the enterprise software we need to put on them.  Saving a few hundred dollars/users (call it $1.5M CAPEX per 3 year replacement cycle) and impacting productivity across 5000+ employees is a stupid tradeoff.  The labor hours cost far more and $300 is less than a day's worth of work. 

 

 

I do windows development on my MBP and VMs work just fine as long as you have enough RAM.  I'm also not impressed by a dev that can't set up Bootcamp on his MBA if he wants to predominantly run Windows.  There were months on my old MBP that I never booted into OSX.

 

Unfortunately that has never actually been true on a wise-spread basis.   Macs have always had a lower TCO that Windows boxes, up to 50% lower TCO given a 4 year lifespan.  And that didn't sway CIOs who were more interested in status quo and having a larger personnel footprint.

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post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Really?  Never played XBox?

I wouldn't give MS a whole lot of credit there.  With all the red ring of death and major pains with the XBox Live brand, the line lives on more because of a couple exclusive game franchises (and pure impotence by Sony) than anything Microsoft has done.   That's not the kind of long term generational experience that buys you benefit of the doubt with a potential lifelong user base.

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post #34 of 36

Whilst AD and Exchange are likely to be the main players for a while, BYOD (and HTML5) are likely to see a weakening of client-OS choice by IT departments, and the introduction of a wide mix of mobile computing running iOS, OSX, Linux and Windows flavours, Android, etc.

 

IT depts caught out by execs currently demanding network access from their iPhones need to get prepared for more than Windows, and based on consumer love for Apple it is likely users will be soon bringing their Macs to work!

post #35 of 36

OS X client is quite respectable in a business setting.  Any IT worker with any talent at all should be able to support it just fine.

 

OS X server is another story, and is quite a mess.   It has been losing functionality since Snow Leopard.  Open Directory is a complex, fragile, beast.  I keep hoping that one of these iterations it will finally be solid and stable, as so many other services depend on it.  About the only nice thing Apple has done recently to server is to create the Profile server.  I think it will be a much better solution for managing client settings, as opposed to MCX.  Especially in Active Directory situations, where you won't need to bind OS X clients to both the Active Directory and to Open Directory.  Its a shame with a little more effort, OS X server could be a really nice solution.  I hope it gets there someday.

"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley View Post

OS X client is quite respectable in a business setting.  Any IT worker with any talent at all should be able to support it just fine.

 

OS X server is another story, and is quite a mess.   It has been losing functionality since Snow Leopard.  Open Directory is a complex, fragile, beast.  I keep hoping that one of these iterations it will finally be solid and stable, as so many other services depend on it.  About the only nice thing Apple has done recently to server is to create the Profile server.  I think it will be a much better solution for managing client settings, as opposed to MCX.  Especially in Active Directory situations, where you won't need to bind OS X clients to both the Active Directory and to Open Directory.  Its a shame with a little more effort, OS X server could be a really nice solution.  I hope it gets there someday.

 

That seems like a reasonable approach for Apple.  As long as it integrates well into AD, Exchange, etc OSX and iOS can do well on the client side.

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