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Apple still expected to retire 17-inch MacBook Pro in 2012 - Page 4

post #121 of 183

I like the screen width of the 17 " MBP for when I split the screen under the terminal app in command line Unix work. Since I'm older and my eyes aren't what they used to be, I really like having the ability to use larger font sizes and still have enough screen space to avoid excessive scrolling. If Apple does discontinue the 17 MBP I guess that I'll have to find a 17 inch Windows mobile workstation and load some form of Linux or FreeBSD. I wasn't looking forward to having to deal with driver hell any more with these unix-based OSs, but I refuse to step backward and deal with a toy OS like Windows again.

post #122 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by messiah40 View Post

 

The 17" MacBookPro was design to replace the desktop. However, u can carry it around if you have to. I still love my 17" MacBookPro 2.16, which I use to develop website and run Adobe CS 5.5 on it. In the fall I was eagerly contemplating updating it, to a new model for Adobe CS 6. I ascertain I'll just get one of the recent MacBookPro,  to replace my antiquated computer. I don't how  "new school" can work on 10"- 15" screen to work in Photoshop, to 3D Animation type Apps out there. Never carry your portable computer with one hand.

They don't.

They leave the computer on a desk... attached to a 27" or larger monitor using a Wacom tablet.

post #123 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmallon View Post

I agree, Why the hell would anyone want to lug around a 17"   you would use an external monitor or projector at that point.   I would rather see a 14" come in to play. 

 

Every try taking an external monitor with you to all corners of your home? How about the ballgame? Or to lunch with a client? Or at the client's home? I've done all four.

 

I've carried a 17" Apple 'Book (a 2003 G4 Powerbook, and still a 2008 MacBook Pro) for almost nine years. Heck, the PowerBook is still officially in my inventory, although on loan. I am looking to replace mine.

 

Oh, and to the folks who keep thinking that more can be squeezed onto a Retina Display, that's only by reducing the font which is much more difficult to read, especially by us avoiding bifocals folk.

 

The fad that disappeared was the 19 inch laptops which Apple didn't try. Plenty of Windows 17 inch laptops still available - why not from Apple, who have done so since Verne Troyer pull one out of his luggage over nine years ago.

post #124 of 183

My 2cents... outside of professionals who might need a 17" laptop - most us others think the 17" is too big and too heavy. We/I want more portability that the 13" and 15" gives, most don't want to carry around a big & heavy 17" laptop that is difficult to fit in many knapsacks or bags and is too cumbersome for hotel, train, airplane, coffee shop use. If you can pay for the high cost of a base model 15" MBP, might as well pay the extra cost and also get a 27" Apple monitor which is "only" $650 more than a base model 17" MBP. That way you have a smaller easier to carry laptop when on the road or moving from room to room, but still get a big fancy monitor when at your desk. To ME it makes more sense to buy a 13"/15" and pay for an Apple Display monitor separately.


Edited by mesomorphicman - 6/8/12 at 11:43pm
post #125 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukevaxhacker View Post

 

Every try taking an external monitor with you to all corners of your home? How about the ballgame? Or to lunch with a client? Or at the client's home? I've done all four.

 

You take your laptop to a ball game??? Why?? If you really need to be connected at the game why not use your phone or maybe get a tablet? I can't imagine seeing someone sitting at a game with a giant 17" laptop on their lap, that's a laugh out loud - let me take a photo and send to my friends experience. And is it really that big of a deal if you need to carry your laptop away from the external monitor while at home for a while, will the loss of those 2" hurt you that much for a couple hours or so? If your client complains about you showing work on a 15" instead of a 17" then he/she/they are idiots anyway, if you lose a job over two less inches then do you really want to work with someone like that?

 

To each his own, but to me it makes more sense to get an external 27" for real work at home and enjoy the smaller laptop when on the move. But that's me.

post #126 of 183
I'm one a number of MBP 17in users that would be sorely disappointed to see the back of it. I'm looking at upgrading my 17in MBP at the moment. I'm not a iOS or OSX Dev. Nor do I create webpages or other 'content'. To me the MBP is the one thing that keeps me sane when I'm trying to do my job. I develop software using a very expensive add-on to Eclipse. Screen real estate especially when debugging is vital. I run between 4 & 6 VM's (in Fusion) to simulate the systems I'm developing for. People say it is too heavy. Well it might be but a Samsonite wheeled case solves that. It is also cabin sized. Problem solved. I take it al over the world with me. I was in Mumbai last week. In a few days I'm off to San Diego and then Santiago. Sure the alloy case has a number of scratches and even a few dents. But a cheaper plastic caded device would have fallen apart long ago. People say I don't need such a big screen. Believe me that when you get to the big Six Zero, your eyesight is not what it once was. I would not run my dev environment on anything smaller than 17in. 1920x1200 or 1920x1080 suits me fine. Clearel pixels would be nice but using a 15in (or smaller)1080p screen is just not on. Not are glossy screens. They are total shite as far as I'm concerned. If Apple do stop the 17in device then I'll have to go back to a Windows device. If you think that the 17in MBP is heavy then an awful lot of 17in Windows based alternatives are an awfu lot heavier.
post #127 of 183

Great post rotateleftbyte!

 

I think there's still a market for a 17" laptop if Apple ditches the optical drive, cuts the fat (especially around the edges of the display), offers SSD only and removes the ultra glossy glass screen.  That glass screen probably adds to the weight significantly.

The problem with the 17" MBP is not so much its size (in fact, as you note its screen size is an asset) but its weight!  I found 3 kg to be impractical and far too cumbersome to carry around regularly.  I used to take my 17" to work every day until I got tired of lugging it around, so I sold it.  If they can get it down to around 2 kg it would be a far more attractive proposition.

Basically, Apple's laptop lineup should be as follows:

11" and 13" MacBook Airs with the current form factor (or perhaps a slimmer bezel), boosted specs and retina displays! (what I'm waiting for, cash in hand!)

13" MacBook with an optical drive and SD display, which I believe we've seen the specs of already.  The drive is necessary for this model because the market for this, the cheapest of Apple's portables is by and large those that don't want the expense of an external drive and may not even have home wireless (mums and grandparents) or who find the concept of a wireless optical drive intimidating and confusing.

15" and 17" MacBook Pros sans optical drive but with powerful discreet graphics, retina displays, all the fastest connectivity and quad-core processors.  In other words, the ultimate portable performer in a slim and much lighter form factor and without the much-derided glass screens.  They could have new strong and light glossy and matte screen options with ultra-thin aluminium bezels around the screen.

This is Apple's ideal portable lineup because it's slim, has all the bases covered and none of the models are competing with or overlapping each other's niche.

Yes Apple, you can give me a highly payed executive position! :P

post #128 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by physics View Post

I like the screen width of the 17 " MBP for when I split the screen under the terminal app in command line Unix work. Since I'm older and my eyes aren't what they used to be, I really like having the ability to use larger font sizes and still have enough screen space to avoid excessive scrolling. If Apple does discontinue the 17 MBP I guess that I'll have to find a 17 inch Windows mobile workstation and load some form of Linux or FreeBSD. I wasn't looking forward to having to deal with driver hell any more with these unix-based OSs, but I refuse to step backward and deal with a toy OS like Windows again.

Linux is much better than it use to be. I went with a Mac in 2008 more for Apples services and apps. That is iTunes, and iPhone integration. If you don't need the things that come with Apples hardware, Linux is a perfectly good computing alternative.
post #129 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

My 2cents... outside of professionals who might need a 17" laptop - most us others think the 17" is too big and too heavy. We/I want more portability that the 13" and 15" gives, most don't want to carry around a big & heavy 17" laptop that is difficult to fit in many knapsacks or bags and is too cumbersome for hotel, train, airplane, coffee shop use. If you can pay for the high cost of a base model 15" MBP, might as well pay the extra cost and also get a 27" Apple monitor which is "only" $650 more than a base model 17" MBP. That way you have a smaller easier to carry laptop when on the road or moving from room to room, but still get a big fancy monitor when at your desk. To ME it makes more sense to buy a 13"/15" and pay for an Apple Display monitor separately.

That may work for you, but some of us prefer the larger screen. And the bolded doesn't make sense - that's exactly the target audience. By your logic, BMW shouldn't make convertibles because outside of people who prefer convertibles, nobody buys them.
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post #130 of 183

People who say products should be retired only because of sales volume should be careful of what they wish for. The entire Mac line has lower sales volume than the iOS line. Apple could throw an A6 (or future A7) processor into a mini desktop, all in one desktop, and a couple of laptops running iOS. Apple could then make Macs history.
 

post #131 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddan View Post
Apple could then make Macs history.

 

Because no one would buy them, as they wouldn't be powerful enough to do anything and iOS doesn't work on a desktop.

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post #132 of 183

Apple most likely will drop the 17" if it truly is not selling, its sad as often I am not at home connected to my 23" ACD and am thankful for a 17" screen in which my eyes are more relaxed. I also like the extra keyboard/trackpad real-estate and battery life. 

 

I remember when I bought my 17" in 2009, it was roughly the same size as my old 15" due to the re-design. If they redesign the 17" into an air-like weight (no optical drive, ssd etc) I wonder if sales would improve.

 


Edited by small mustache - 6/9/12 at 8:44am
post #133 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Because no one would buy them, as they wouldn't be powerful enough to do anything and iOS doesn't work on a desktop.


The idea that all Apple products could run on ARM based processors has been around for awhile but it wasn't my idea. Hopefully Apple appreciates the computational abilities of Intel (or Intel like) processors for the foreseeable future despite the fact that they use more electricity than the ARM based processors.

post #134 of 183
Ok, lets examine the situation if Apple were to drop Intel and go with ARM. That would mightily pee off a number of companies that sell an awful lot of software that runs on OSX. Could Adobe even port Photoshop to ARM? AFIAK, the codebase is a morass of crap. Would Microsoft release a version of Office that runs on ARM? etc etc etc Add any really good app that currently runs on OSX. Look at what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8. They are forcing Metro onto every user. A post a few days ago indicated that even MS didn't think that anyone (or many people) would buy Windows 8. Do you really think that apple would risk an equivalent FoPah by switching to ARM only? Just when Mac's are getting acceptance in the Business arena do ou want to cut that off just to spite yourself. Do you want the likes of Adobe/Microsoft etc to tell Apple to 'get stuffed' as far as porting their apps to ARM goes. I'm not saying that it won't happen. It probably will but honestly do you think that Apple won't see the Windows 8 train wreck in full progress and learn a lesson? I'm not spending any money on Windows 8 or Server 2012 because that are 'just wrong' Apple forcing ARM on us at this point in time is also 'just wrong'.
post #135 of 183
I don't think Apple would be so crazy as to force ARM upon us. At least not while there is such a gap in performance and capability. However I could see them offering ARM based hardware where i86 doesn't offer a viable solution.

In this regards I'd love to see Apple TV and a similar platform opened up to apps. At $99 bucks a crack you can't really beat the obvious price and size advantage. Given access to a USB port and drivers it would be a great little embedded platform. There are even numerous apps that don't need the USB port if ones imagination is freed up.

There is no argument that i86 is far more powerful and likely will be for some time. But there is the concept of good enough and in that regards the devices like Apple TV are indeed good enough for many uses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotateleftbyte View Post

Ok, lets examine the situation if Apple were to drop Intel and go with ARM. That would mightily pee off a number of companies that sell an awful lot of software that runs on OSX. Could Adobe even port Photoshop to ARM? AFIAK, the codebase is a morass of crap. Would Microsoft release a version of Office that runs on ARM? etc etc etc Add any really good app that currently runs on OSX. Look at what Microsoft is doing with Windows 8. They are forcing Metro onto every user. A post a few days ago indicated that even MS didn't think that anyone (or many people) would buy Windows 8. Do you really think that apple would risk an equivalent FoPah by switching to ARM only? Just when Mac's are getting acceptance in the Business arena do ou want to cut that off just to spite yourself. Do you want the likes of Adobe/Microsoft etc to tell Apple to 'get stuffed' as far as porting their apps to ARM goes. I'm not saying that it won't happen. It probably will but honestly do you think that Apple won't see the Windows 8 train wreck in full progress and learn a lesson? I'm not spending any money on Windows 8 or Server 2012 because that are 'just wrong' Apple forcing ARM on us at this point in time is also 'just wrong'.
post #136 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

My 2cents... outside of professionals who might need a 17" laptop - most us others think the 17" is too big and too heavy. ... To ME it makes more sense to buy a 13"/15" and pay for an Apple Display monitor separately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That may work for you, but some of us prefer the larger screen. And the bolded doesn't make sense - that's exactly the target audience. By your logic, BMW shouldn't make convertibles because outside of people who prefer convertibles, nobody buys them.

 

All right, I'll edit it -- "outside of graphic or web professionals...," is that a little better? And yes, it does work for ME hence me bolding the word ME, it is MY opinion, so regardless of what you might think it is my view and no need to debate as I will not change my view. Also, how do you know what their target audience is? The MacBook Air is targeted to professionals also but those on the go (and college students), that's what Steve Jobs pretty much said when he introduced it. So, to me the Air and MBP are targeted towards professionals with different needs. Making your snarky comment invalid and weak like your thinking - there, see I can be snarky too. I'm ghost on this.

post #137 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesomorphicman View Post

All right, I'll edit it -- "outside of graphic or web professionals...," is that a little better? And yes, it does work for ME hence me bolding the word ME, it is MY opinion, so regardless of what you might think it is my view and no need to debate as I will not change my view. Also, how do you know what their target audience is? The MacBook Air is targeted to professionals also but those on the go (and college students), that's what Steve Jobs pretty much said when he introduced it. So, to me the Air and MBP are targeted towards professionals with different needs. Making your snarky comment invalid and weak like your thinking - there, see I can be snarky too. I'm ghost on this.

The difference, of course, is that you are acting as if your opinion is what matters and Apple should drop the 17" MBP simply because you don't use its power.

I have nothing against someone saying "I don't need xxxx". I do, however, object to people saying "Apple should do yyyy because no one needs xxxx".
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post #138 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


OK, so there are a few cases where someone else had a new chip shortly before Apple did. How in the world do you get from that to "Apple doesn't make fast small computers?"
Apple's computers are very competitive overall. The fact that someone else might occasionally have an extra 0.1 GHz is not particularly relevant. Apple's computers are fast - and well within the range of comparable systems. And for some (MacBook Air, for example), everyone else is playing catch up.
 

Comparable isn't leading.

 

If Apple isn't putting in the top of the line chips into their computers then they are not leading. They are behind. If they aren't using the latest chips first then they aren't leading. They are behind.

 

Apple is leading Microsoft in software. I'm not sure I can compare the OS X software directly with Linux because there are so many contributors to Linux. I can say that I find Linux faster and more friendly than OS X once everything is installed with the proper drivers. That is my opinion not something that can always be quantified. Each software program operating within Linux is different.

 

I like Apple even though I've had customer service problems with two defective Mac Book batteries in the same computer. I like HP too with the exception of Microsoft's OS on their computers. If it weren't for the problems with Microsoft's Vista, HP tech support would rate higher than Apple's tech support in my book. They were willing to replace defective hardware much easier.

 

Apple is integrating Facebook with everything. That isn't a good idea. I want to choose how my computer integrates with the internet or not. Facebook could be out of the picture in a year or so if another more popular network comes along. This integration is in a way like Microsoft's bloatware. It is being incorporated into the platform without the users choosing it.

 

As time goes on I'm looking at alternatives to Apple instead of just accepting that Apple builds the best products. Times change. Companies rise and fall. Apple might have peaked.

 

I'm following Apple's old call to Think Different. These days that means looking away from Apple.

post #139 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Comparable isn't leading.

 

If Apple isn't putting in the top of the line chips into their computers then they are not leading. They are behind. If they aren't using the latest chips first then they aren't leading. They are behind.

I find this and the last part to be kind of silly. You should never assume that any company is the best. With Apple if they fit your needs well enough, you tend to end up entrenched in their products due to software choices, storage formatting, and familiarity. It's really not worth splitting hairs once you've made that kind of choice regarding who is in the theoretical lead from one month to the next. The chip thing is just beyond silly. Apple has never led here. They've addressed a certain portion of the available hardware. They usually offer up to the second or third best in a lineup with cpus or gpus. They don't address things like tesla cards or build workstations that take the most ram of any out there, but they've never done any of this.

 

I haven't spent much time with HP. A couple friends have owned HP machines with problems, but that's anecdotal, and I've had problems with Apple hardware too. They're both built from cheaply manufactured parts, as that's basically the norm here. I am wondering why you rank HP's support higher. What do yo feel they do better? Vista is old news unless you're talking about a large company that didn't bother updating everything. Even then it improved to a degree late in its cycle.

post #140 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

I am wondering why you rank HP's support higher. What do yo feel they do better?

My new 2009 HP tower had a bad video card. After two times trying to get tech support to diagnose the problem they recognized it was a bad component. They offered to replace the computer and they did. I got the same thing with a slightly different case. It was at the end of the product cycle and I got the newer version of the same thing.

 

Apple tech support asked questions about my defective battery and said nothing could be done. Then I went up the ladder and got the same type of response. I did online research because I knew that Apple had recalled defective batteries in the past. I proved to them that my battery was made by Sony and that it was the same type of battery. They refused to replace it even though it was exhibiting the same problems such as extreme expansion within the metal battery case.

 

Apple's refusal required me to take further action. I reported the battery to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I described the problem just as I did to the Apple technicians. Months later an Apple representative contacted me because of that report. I was asked to bring the computer to a local tech support place because there are no Apple stores in my state. The technician photographed the battery and sent it to Apple.

 

A day or so later Apple agreed to exchange that battery. The one they sent to me worked for just a month then died. They wouldn't replace that one. Apparently these Sony batteries all came from the same batch and there really aren't any newer ones.

 

I feel HP recognized hardware problems faster and will exchange items with less hassle. HP also exchanged a defective printer for me. They didn't even require me to send the old one back. I suppose they felt it would be cheaper for them to let me keep it than for them to pay for shipping to get a broken printer they would have to repair, or throw away. When I exchanged my computer, HP sent a shipping label AND a box for it.

 

I've read horror stories about PC companies not honoring their warranties but so far I haven't experienced that.

post #141 of 183

This move wouldn't surprise me. Depress me, yes, but not surprise me considering what they did with the Xserve, FCP, anything remotely 'Pro"...

 

I've lugged around many Macs over the years, but my 17" MacBook Pro has been my favorite. I will not buy a 15" MacBook. I'm not saying this as an act of defiance or because I think Tim Cook is reading this, but because I have no interest in the downgrade. Most likely I will keep my eyes open for a 17" PC laptop that can work as a workable hackintosh. Hopefully one with a good matte screen.

 

It's not a matter of pixels—it's a matter of real estate, clarity, and ease of use. I'm more productive with my 17" MPB—period. Until someone perfects a real retina display (one that attaches to your retina), the 17" laptop is the best solution for me.

 

Who would want a 15" MacBook "Pro" anyway? Why not just get an Air? I'd buy a 17" Air, but that won't happen because Apple is convinced that 17" must cost a bazillion dollars and an Air must be cheap.

 

What Apple should do is make the 17" more enticing. Get rid of the optical drive and trim the cost. Hell, make it a 19". However they seem more likely to trim their lineup to one product then convince the fanboys that it's all for the best. Hey, let's cram more pixels into an iPhone and hook it up to an external monitor so we don't even need a Mac!

post #142 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

My new 2009 HP tower had a bad video card. After two times trying to get tech support to diagnose the problem they recognized it was a bad component. They offered to replace the computer and they did. I got the same thing with a slightly different case. It was at the end of the product cycle and I got the newer version of the same thing.

Apple tech support asked questions about my defective battery and said nothing could be done. Then I went up the ladder and got the same type of response. I did online research because I knew that Apple had recalled defective batteries in the past. I proved to them that my battery was made by Sony and that it was the same type of battery. They refused to replace it even though it was exhibiting the same problems such as extreme expansion within the metal battery case.

Apple's refusal required me to take further action. I reported the battery to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. I described the problem just as I did to the Apple technicians. Months later an Apple representative contacted me because of that report. I was asked to bring the computer to a local tech support place because there are no Apple stores in my state. The technician photographed the battery and sent it to Apple.

A day or so later Apple agreed to exchange that battery. The one they sent to me worked for just a month then died. They wouldn't replace that one. Apparently these Sony batteries all came from the same batch and there really aren't any newer ones.

I feel HP recognized hardware problems faster and will exchange items with less hassle. HP also exchanged a defective printer for me. They didn't even require me to send the old one back. I suppose they felt it would be cheaper for them to let me keep it than for them to pay for shipping to get a broken printer they would have to repair, or throw away. When I exchanged my computer, HP sent a shipping label AND a box for it.

I've read horror stories about PC companies not honoring their warranties but so far I haven't experienced that.

Which is why anecdotal evidence is not very relevant. It's too likely that an individual response would not be representative.

Every time a survey is done Apple's tech support is at or near the top of the list. Sometimes well ahead of everyone else.
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post #143 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Comparable isn't leading.

If Apple isn't putting in the top of the line chips into their computers then they are not leading. They are behind. If they aren't using the latest chips first then they aren't leading. They are behind.

We weren't talking about leading.

You said that Apple doesn't make fast small computers. You were wrong.

You don't need to be the very fastest to be fast.
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post #144 of 183

FAIL. WRONG.

post #145 of 183

Shame about the 17". At least the replacement in the line up has 2 thunderbolt ports.

post #146 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by satch View Post

FAIL. WRONG.

They went back to 16:10 though and at least offer something compelling for the extra money: fast SSD, lighter, less glare, high resolution, extra 512MB VRAM and dual Thunderbolt. Just making it bigger wasn't that compelling for $300.

I think they should have ditched the old models though and made a 13" equivalent.

Seems like they removed the writing from the display too. That's a bit odd but the desktops don't have their names on them.
post #147 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Which is why anecdotal evidence is not very relevant. It's too likely that an individual response would not be representative.
Every time a survey is done Apple's tech support is at or near the top of the list. Sometimes well ahead of everyone else.


You asked why I had that opinion and I answered you. Now you feel it is irrelevant. Don't ask for something if you don't want to hear the answer or intend to dismiss any answer given to you.

 

I wasn't part of any customer satisfaction survey.


Edited by Smallwheels - 6/11/12 at 3:31pm
post #148 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


We weren't talking about leading.
You said that Apple doesn't make fast small computers. You were wrong.
You don't need to be the very fastest to be fast.


Other companies make faster small computers. If Apple makes the same speed computers as most other computer manufactures in each class, then they are just middle of the road producers. If they made computers that were faster than their competition then I would say they made fast computers relative to their competition.

 

If we extend this to the entire length of time computers have been made then indeed Apple does make fast small computers relative to things made a decade ago. It's a silly comparison but it is the one you are using.

 

Just today I saw some interesting things being done with the lowly Intel Atom 500 series processors with multiple cores. When paired with Nvidia's ION GPU they can do some wonderful video work. The thing is they can be packaged in such small packages that they are as small as modems. They also use less than thirty watts. There is a German company that packs the latest Core i7 processors into a box just a little bit bigger. Apple isn't doing that at all. The Mini is more than twice the size of that.

 

Apple is leading Microsoft in software but other companies are leading with hardware innovation.

 

Leading is important.

post #149 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
Apple is leading Microsoft in software but other companies are leading with hardware innovation.

 

Do other companies have more powerful laptops in the same or smaller cases?

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #150 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Apple is leading Microsoft in software but other companies are leading with hardware innovation.

Do other companies have more powerful laptops in the same or smaller cases?

The new retina MBP has an IPS display too.
post #151 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


The new retina MBP has an IPS display too.


Okay now I may have to look at it. It's still silly though. So many people buy laptops then just leave them on their desks. I wouldn't even own a laptop if I did that. Still waiting on the ivy mini marvin? that was previously what you wanted to purchase (see? I do pay attention).

post #152 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

Still waiting on the ivy mini marvin? that was previously what you wanted to purchase (see? I do pay attention).

Yeah, I think the Mini is great. An IB version probably won't be that impressive in CPU performance but if they get a 640M GT in there, that would be a very nice machine (it can run the DX11 Heaven tessellation test in real-time). Throw in 16GB RAM and a Samsung 830 SSD and it will churn through most tasks quite easily. I'm disappointed it didn't arrive already but it'll likely be next month. They always do the laptops first.
post #153 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Yeah, I think the Mini is great. An IB version probably won't be that impressive in CPU performance but if they get a 640M GT in there, that would be a very nice machine (it can run the DX11 Heaven tessellation test in real-time). Throw in 16GB RAM and a Samsung 830 SSD and it will churn through most tasks quite easily. I'm disappointed it didn't arrive already but it'll likely be next month. They always do the laptops first.

Yeah so when can we expect the Mini update?  Next month will be a year.

post #154 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Yeah so when can we expect the Mini update?  Next month will be a year.

Yearly updates are becoming standard for all of Apple's products.

Last iMac update was 05/2011 (406 days), last Mini update was 07/2011 (328 days), the last major MBP update was 02/2011 so the MBP was the most in need of a refresh (473 days).

They like to offset product releases but they have to avoid their popular lines going stale. The iMac is a popular part of their lineup, there is absolutely no way in hell they will leave it until 2013 without an update. I think we'll see an update in July/August for both the iMac and Mini. Then they do the iOS stuff in September, break for Christmas, iPad and start over.
post #155 of 183

Read today (post WWDC) that the 17" is definitely discontinued. All I have to say is, I'm already having to magnify (zoom) the screen for most things on my 17". Higher resolution just means everything smaller, for the most part. Sure, clearer, but smaller. I think this is a poor decision on Apple's behalf and, to me, the first clear sign that the Visionary has been replaced by a Supply Line expert.

 

...lamenting our loss of Steve.

post #156 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by motoservo View Post

Higher resolution just means everything smaller....

I think this is a poor decision on Apple's behalf and, to me, the first clear sign that the Visionary has been replaced by a Supply Line expert.

 

 

False premise. Shitty conclusion.

post #157 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 



You just have to trust Apple to make the best decisions for consumers. I am a 17" MacBook Pro owner and I love the product. But if Apple discontinues the 17" model this year, then I'll support their decision and reward their bravery by purchasing the 15" model. You can't walk away from this Apple family just because you don't get everything you want all the time. Apple is wonderful company, they deserve our ongoing support by buying the amazing products they continue to unleash upon us.



No, Apple deserves my support for making an outstanding product that meets my needs. I walk away from a company when I pay a premium for it and they don't provide for my needs. Trimming a few mm off the thickness and failing to provide larger storage or display options is a non-beginner for me. I could care less about the retina display. You still have to blow the size of everything up just to make it human readable, and you lose the extra screen size in the bargain. Sure the text will look great, but it wasn't as if it was unreadable with lower pixel density. I'm reading these responses and reviews and just shaking my head. Someone was praising the internals even though the laptop was given the poorest possible score for repairs after it's teardown. The inside of a laptop doesn't have to look nice if it sacrifices functionality. Cosmetic appearance of the inside is COMPLETELY redundant. A glued in battery, which happened to be glued in on top of the cable for the track pad making replacement of components problematic. Poor design choices all to race to the thinnest possible 'appliance' when a computer is not an appliance in the Pro line. That isn't what the Pro line was about. The Macbook Air is a closer to that.

Scrapping a product line that is widely used (albeit only 2% of their profits) just shows they have no consumer loyalty. They have to earn consumer confidence, and if they are willing to toss that on a whim, then they don't deserve my loyalty. A phone is an appliance. An iPad is an appliance. A Macbook Pro is not. By it's very nature, it is not a one size fits all piece of equipment. We paid a premium for the screen size, the variety of storage options, etc. Other than the basics, which I expect every computer to provide, there are huge variables as to what people use them for. This cookie cutter approach will meet the needs of a large portion of it's customer base, and totally alienate the 'Pro' people who rely on the ability to customize the hardware without overly complex or cumbersome external solutions for everything.

The recent trend to make everything non-repairable, non-upgradable, non-functional outside of their vision is starting to grate. I hate to say that as I love all of my apple products, but now I'm faced with the option (or lack thereof), of a Macbook pro that I can't even get a larger hard drive into, other than what's initially offered by Apple. I've upgraded the hard drive on every Macbook Pro I own (I'm on #5) over the years. I do a lot of media work and need the mobility and a large amount of storage. Now I have would have no option other than to lug around an external drive to store large media because I won't have the option to pop in a larger hard drive.

The responses from the others in this forum are also a bit sad. They are cheering this removal of options as if it personally affronted them and was somehow holding back their smaller 13" and 15" purchase choices when in reality, it didn't affect them in the slightest. The lengths that people are going to to defend something that means nothing to them while dismissing the concerns of those who are directly impacted by these decisions is a little disconcerting.
iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
Reply
iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
Reply
post #158 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

The recent trend to make everything non-repairable, non-upgradable, non-functional outside of their vision is starting to grate. I hate to say that as I love all of my apple products, but now I'm faced with the option (or lack thereof), of a Macbook pro that I can't even get a larger hard drive into, other than what's initially offered by Apple. I've upgraded the hard drive on every Macbook Pro I own (I'm on #5) over the years. I do a lot of media work and need the mobility and a large amount of storage. Now I have would have no option other than to lug around an external drive to store large media because I won't have the option to pop in a larger hard drive.

The responses from the others in this forum are also a bit sad. They are cheering this removal of options as if it personally affronted them and was somehow holding back their smaller 13" and 15" purchase choices when in reality, it didn't affect them in the slightest. The lengths that people are going to to defend something that means nothing to them while dismissing the concerns of those who are directly impacted by these decisions is a little disconcerting.

We are getting to a point where there's little point in upgrades or self-repair.

The way they did the display is fine as it means a 3rd party repair shop can't stick some cheap panel in your machine. They'd have to get the panel and case from Apple so you know it's genuine.

Soldered RAM is a bit of a nuisance but we are reaching a point where the RAM is enough. 16GB should have been the entry level but the people who need more than 8GB know they need more.

The SSD should be upgradable by 3rd parties just like the Air but you wouldn't necessarily want to. It's best for Apple to pick the best controller and design the drive to work with the OS.

Bus-powered USB 3 hard drives or SSDs are tiny and fine for bulk storage. Flash will keep dropping in price the more mainstream these designs become so they'll get affordable 1TB eventually.
post #159 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

 

False premise. Shitty conclusion.

 

Which part of higher resolution using less space equating to smaller stuff to look at is a "false premise", piot?

 

But you're right, it's a shitty conclusion. And one were bound to see more evidence of as time progresses.

post #160 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post


No, Apple deserves my support for making an outstanding product that meets my needs. I walk away from a company when I pay a premium for it and they don't provide for my needs. Trimming a few mm off the thickness and failing to provide larger storage or display options is a non-beginner for me. I could care less about the retina display. You still have to blow the size of everything up just to make it human readable, and you lose the extra screen size in the bargain. Sure the text will look great, but it wasn't as if it was unreadable with lower pixel density. I'm reading these responses and reviews and just shaking my head. Someone was praising the internals even though the laptop was given the poorest possible score for repairs after it's teardown. The inside of a laptop doesn't have to look nice if it sacrifices functionality. Cosmetic appearance of the inside is COMPLETELY redundant. A glued in battery, which happened to be glued in on top of the cable for the track pad making replacement of components problematic. Poor design choices all to race to the thinnest possible 'appliance' when a computer is not an appliance in the Pro line. That isn't what the Pro line was about. The Macbook Air is a closer to that.
Scrapping a product line that is widely used (albeit only 2% of their profits) just shows they have no consumer loyalty. They have to earn consumer confidence, and if they are willing to toss that on a whim, then they don't deserve my loyalty. A phone is an appliance. An iPad is an appliance. A Macbook Pro is not. By it's very nature, it is not a one size fits all piece of equipment. We paid a premium for the screen size, the variety of storage options, etc. Other than the basics, which I expect every computer to provide, there are huge variables as to what people use them for. This cookie cutter approach will meet the needs of a large portion of it's customer base, and totally alienate the 'Pro' people who rely on the ability to customize the hardware without overly complex or cumbersome external solutions for everything.
The recent trend to make everything non-repairable, non-upgradable, non-functional outside of their vision is starting to grate. I hate to say that as I love all of my apple products, but now I'm faced with the option (or lack thereof), of a Macbook pro that I can't even get a larger hard drive into, other than what's initially offered by Apple. I've upgraded the hard drive on every Macbook Pro I own (I'm on #5) over the years. I do a lot of media work and need the mobility and a large amount of storage. Now I have would have no option other than to lug around an external drive to store large media because I won't have the option to pop in a larger hard drive.
The responses from the others in this forum are also a bit sad. They are cheering this removal of options as if it personally affronted them and was somehow holding back their smaller 13" and 15" purchase choices when in reality, it didn't affect them in the slightest. The lengths that people are going to to defend something that means nothing to them while dismissing the concerns of those who are directly impacted by these decisions is a little disconcerting.

 

Well said. I worked at Apple for 5 years, started about the time Steve came back and I was there for the rollout of OSX (worked overtime for that one) and for the rollout of the first iPod. I've rarely questioned the wisdom of Apple's decisions, even at times like when the dropped the floppy and so many users were in dismay. That was an obvious sign of progress. A necessary progress. If this were a conversation about dropping the DVD drive I wouldn't be nearly as emotionally invested in it.

 

But alas, it's a conversation about form factors, and though there are those here intent on convincing us we're ignorant, obsolete, missing the genius behind this, or what-have-you, form factors are clearly a subjective preference and can't be quantified or framed as technological progress. And there's clearly a substantial group of users who prefer a larger form factor. I'm a dude, I have a big lap, with aging eyes, I *require* the 17" display. It's funny how so many on here are saying we're old fashioned because we should be parking our 15" laptops at our desk where our big monitor sits. Maybe *they're* the old fashioned ones for still having desks. I work in coffee shops, mostly. Or, whatever room in the house I happen to sit down in. I don't have a desk and I'm not about to get one to accommodate Apple's new requirements. After a life of using Macs, since 1986, I'm tempted to get a Windows machine. I do heavy graphic work and electronic music production. This, after winding down a career in software development. There's no reason in hell why I can't jump to Windows and still do all of my work if Apple forces these smaller screens on us.

 

These folks that are defending Apple's axing the 17 inch seem to think us having our 17 is in some way hindering their progress. There's been a slow migration to our platform from Windows for many years. Let's see how they change their tune when some day the migration goes the other way. The money dwindles, and they see what hindered progress looks like.

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