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Apple still expected to retire 17-inch MacBook Pro in 2012 - Page 3

post #81 of 183

Years ago I wanted the largest laptop screen possible because it would be used mostly on my desk. Eventually I owned an external monitor for my laptop and that changed my mind. My laptop is always connected to a mouse and external keyboard when at my desk. It is just easier to use it that way. Now I would prefer a super powerful tiny computer with a video out and plenty of ports. The big screen can stay on the desk. Whenever I need to go out to show someone something in person, the small computer screen is fine.

 

The thing that annoys me about Apple is they don't build powerful small computers. They just get by with average level processors these days on their main lines. Other brands have been using the latest tech first. The Mini is almost always a year behind. Only this year has Apple been leading with the mid level tech. At least that is an improvement. It would be more interesting if Apple would lead with really high tech items and price them well. Apple doesn't do that. They are just an alternative to Dell and HP in the computer arena. Their big draw is the OS not the hardware.

 

Ubuntu and the other Linux variants are extremely close to having all the same bells and whistles as OS X. In some instances they're leading with features. I've been enjoying the latest Linux offerings for just two years and I really have almost everything I can get in OS X. To me Apple has lost its appeal because of their sluggish rate of refreshing their products. They're still in the running but nowadays I'm actually looking at other brands. Now that I know how to install an alternative OS on Windows machines I can view them as hardware devices instead of crappy Windows devices. That gives me a freedom I didn't have before learning about Linux.

 

Alternative manufacturers such as System 76 are offering some high tech solutions equal to or better than some Apple products. As these alternative manufacturers get more capital they'll be able to offer better products than Apple. If we want to be nostalgic about how Apple started in a garage offering superior hardware, and we want to experience that again, then we could look to other small manufacturers offering expensive (but better) hardware today. Such companies exist. Are you willing to make that investment in a low volume manufacture to get something superior now? If so then jump ship and leave Apple. Embrace a new manufacturer and give them a chance. If their products work great then promote them and be able to say ten years from now that you were there near the beginning. Many people visiting this forum brag that they have been with Apple from the beginning. Maybe it's time for them to find another new company to support if Apple isn't giving them what they want anymore.

 

With Linux and small US manufacturers out there, we do have alternatives if we're willing to try something new and ...Think Different.

post #82 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


Yet another person that does not understand relationship between resolution and screen size. Resolution is entirely independent of screen size. iPad 3 has screen 10'' screen with 2048x1536 pixels. But you don't see more on screen than you do on a typical 13'' laptop with 1280x800 pixels. That's because more pixels (almost 3 times as many) are used to render UI elements. If you just upped the pixels and continued to render stuff with as little pixels as on a smaller resolution, everything on screen would be incredibly tiny.

 

On a 72 DPI screen 10 point font might be rendered with only 20 pixels, but on 300 DPI screen the same 10 point font might be rendered with 100 pixels. This means you see less of stuff on screen, but the stuff you do see is rendered with many more pixels, which means finer detail is better and aliasing is gone.

 

In short, if you take a typical web page on iPad and 13'' Macbook Pro, text has same physical size, but the text on iPad is rendered with more pixels looking sharper. You don't see more of text on iPad 3, in fact you see less of it.

 

Exactly why large screen Androids have been selling so well.  Size does matter.  And improving resolution only gets you so far.  But people will always parrot Apple's arguments...until Apple makes the change themselves.  Then it was utterly obvious.  If Apple introduces a 4inch screen on the iPhone, not a single poster here will ever talk about how size doesn't matter when you have high resolution, ever again.  But they'll keep using the same argument if Apple cans the 17" MBP and you stick up for it. 

 

I wouldn't blame Apple though, for the antics of fanboys.

post #83 of 183

This is a stupid article. Axe the MacBookPro altogether?  Yeah, right.  If Apple discontinued the MacBook, and they are coming out with a new Mac Book?  And now they are going to axe the MacBookPro for MacBooks?

 

It sounds like someone just got their 420 card and seems to be celebrating a little too much.

post #84 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Well, let's see. They did what I just said on the iPhone. They did what I just said on the iPad.

 

They're obviously NOT going to do it on their computers. Because… why?

<sigh>

Sitting in front of a computer? Great ...

Is it running OSX? Perfect ...

 

Go to your "System Preferences" on a OSX device. 

Look at the "Displays" settings.

How many resolutions are list for you - personally, I see 9 for the monitor in front of me, and 6-8 (if you count stretched) on the laptop LCD.

 

OK, now go to the "Settings" app on an iPad (I don't have an iPhone with me at the moment ... but pretend and play along anyway).

Go to the "Display" settings.

 

What? Can't find it?? The iPhone and iPad operate at a FIXED resolution.

If a program is written to take advantage of the retina display - it uses those elements.

If a program is written for a regular display, it uses those element.

If you are using a program written for a non retina display it does algorithmic magicipokery to scale the display and fill in the pixel gaps such that the display is smoothed out.

 

 
A desktop display and an iOS device display are different beasts. Apple will let people run the screen at native resolutions. If people decide to run software at lower resolutions, they will apply the same techniques they currently use (such as subpixel rendering) to smooth out the expanded screen.
 
That extra clarity you refer to with a retina display comes because there is extra screen space. I'd be shocked if the OSX model didn't let you choose between clarity and screen space. If I don't want my NeuBauhausBold fold rendered in all its pixel perfection with subpixel rendering making it smooth as glass, but instead choose a stock standard font that renders so that its legible on screen and allows me to see more of my code at once) - that is my choice (my eyesight is fine).

Edited by tokenuser - 6/8/12 at 11:35am
post #85 of 183

I wouldn't mind a 19 or 21 inch Macbook Pro.

 

13 inch sells more not because a smaller screen is preferred, but because its the lowest price point. If Apple would lower prices bigger sizes would sell more.

post #86 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

I don't believe it...
As presented it does seem questionable. However I could see a transition coming.
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I seriously doubt this guy is privileged to what apple is doing in 2013. Most devs I work with are on 15" MBPs, for them to just take it away, just doesn't seem logical.
This makes no sense, the rumored 15" MacBook would very much be Pro quality performance just without the optical. In fact if the rumors about better battery life are true it would be more of a "Pro" machine than the Pro.

Beyond all of that you seem to imply that developers can't recognize which is the better machine for their needs. I will counter buy saying that developers and other Pros are by far more likely to choose the best machine for their needs. If the descriptions here are even remotely accurate many would quickly migrate away from the current MBPs. What has been described is a far better machine than the current MBP line up.
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I do rarely see the 17" in the wild any more. I remember one year at WWDC it was a dominating notebook, but not so much now days. 
It was a fad for most users. while a few can certainly make use of such a platform, many users have reverted to what is practicle, portable and suitable for the job at hand.
Quote:
I can picture them being able to do this with a high res display. We shall see.

Actually I think TB and auxiliary displays play a big part in making this practicle. Easy reliable hook up to desktop displays makes up for the small screens when stationary. TB is Apples docking solution that is universal across all laptops.
post #87 of 183
The 13" MBP has been Apples strongest selling laptop for a very long time. Even with the advent of the AIRs it is still the strongest selling Laptop in their lineup. So I don't see these figures as unrealistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So you accept everything you read? How in the world would this analyst know Apple's sales by product to within 0.1%?
You can trace the source of this rumor. Some time ago, an analyst stated that Apple sold 30 13" MBPs for every 17" unit sold and that the 13" accounted for 50% of sales. There was no evidence to back their claim and no methodology - yet everyone seems to have accepted it even though the results just don't look plausible:
13" 50%
15" 48.3%
17" 1.7%
That distribution doesn't sound plausible - since the price differential between the 13" and 15" is close to the same as the differential between the 15" and 17".
I'll believe it when I see it.

Price has very little to do with what people buy.
post #88 of 183
Which is pretty much what he is saying. For many users the extra working space of a 17" screen is important. This would be especially the case if you are working with text which is still the same size on screen.

I really don't know if the 17" is dead or not. If you read the stuff this guy (the analyst) is posting about the new line up it looks like most of the article was pulled out of a dark place. He hedges everything said and there is no indication of inside Apple knowledge.

I can see the 17" being trimmed from the lineup as very few are using such machines anymore. However I'm not convinced that Apple wants to leave such a huge opening in the line up. Frankly they might not have access to a suitable screen yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Do you not understand what a retina display will do? It's pixel quadrupling. For every one pixel before, there will be four pixels now. It's clarity, not extra screen space.
post #89 of 183
Niether did Steve! You need to realize that people in these positions have employees to handle or filter mail. If Cook or Steve ever spent the time required to read all of their mail they would get nothing done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321 View Post

If you don't like this decision, you can try to appeal to Tim Cook at: tcook@apple.com
Although he doesn't read all his email messages from strangers, like Steve did.
post #90 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post


Apple users are so decidedly stupid that you guys can't insult me any more.

You have insulted yourself by responding to the rants from an analyst that probably knows nothing about what Apple is up too.
post #91 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

 

 

You just have to trust Apple to make the best decisions for consumers. I am a 17" MacBook Pro owner and I love the product. But if Apple discontinues the 17" model this year, then I'll support their decision and reward their bravery by purchasing the 15" model. You can't walk away from this Apple family just because you don't get everything you want all the time. Apple is wonderful company, they deserve our ongoing support by buying the amazing products they continue to unleash upon us.

So he should surrender to a smaller screen because a multi-billion dollar company deserves his ongoing support for this "bravery"? Hopefully it is sarcasm...

post #92 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

The thing that annoys me about Apple is they don't build powerful small computers.

Huh?

The MacBook Air was miles ahead of the competition (mostly netbooks) when it was released.

The Mac Mini was far ahead of other 'micro' computers you could buy at the time it came out.

The MacBook Pro is the fastest laptop available according to some PC magazines.

And, of course, the iPhone and iPad completely revolutionized the market's understanding of 'small computers'.

How in the world would you conclude that Apple doesn't build powerful small computers?
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post #93 of 183
Come on get a life here. You are whining in a very emotional way about the postings of an analyst that may know nothing about what Apple is up too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noze Pickins View Post

It seems like now that Apple is on top of the hill they care less and less about catering to us long time, loyal mac users that have been there with them for 15 years plus... you remember us, right?
Why are you posting this crap? Apple has yet to release anything or say anything official.
Quote:
You know the ones that had to jump through hoops to send documents and emails to windows users. The ones that used to get laughed at all the time for using macs... the ones that kept the company alive, when it should have been dead.
So now we have to contend with service and treatment we just aren't used to as mac customers... with mac back in the day, it was all about service, and the customer.
This is bull crap, I still get excellent service from Apple and frankly the products they sell are bleeding edge relative to the rest of the market.
Quote:
They always went the extra mile with the little things for the loyal customers, that's one of the reasons we loved them so much. 
Believe me, with the amount of financial surplus they have acquired at this point, keeping a 17" pro model and the G5 tower is NO sweat off their backs financially.
So has Apple actually announced the discontinuation of the 17" MBP.? Have you actually evaluated unreleased product to determine it is no longer to your standards?

As to the G5 processor it was a piece of crap the day it was released. Gullibility and Steve reality distortion field sold it, but there was no technical merit for its success. If you are talking about today's Mac Pro, the most logical thing to do Is to revamp the machine. It is grossly outdated and needs to be refocused to sell as a product.
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Don't even get me started on how they threw pro users under the bus with dumbing down their software either for the pro crowd.
They didn't dumb anything down.
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If you didn't live through the years before the ipod hit with the company, it's very hard to explain, but let me put it like this... They always did right by the customer, and went out of their way to service the pro user and new comer alike, and made sure both sides had what they needed to do the things they needed to do.
They still do. You do realize that the Mini is a more powerful computer than the G5's of a few years back. Even the current Mac Pro drastically outclasses the old G5's. Speaking of the Mac Pro do you even have a clue as to how intel has screwed up the release of Sandy Bridge E?
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Customer service was second to none. If they could do all that back then with the small amount of money they were pulling in, I'm sure they could figure out how to get it done with the billions they are pulling in each year now.

You are absolutely delusional! Get a grip on life here. Wait for WWDC to see what Apple is actually up to. Otherwise what you are emotionally responding to is nothing more than speculation which makes you look the fool.
post #94 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Price has very little to do with what people buy.

That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.

I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.
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post #95 of 183

As a happy owner of a 17" aluminum Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind and optioned as far as options could be taken), I have been waiting for a long time to get a new 17" MBP.

 

I was a bit jaded by Apple obsoleting my notebook one month after I bought it. 

 

But I carried on, happy for the universal binaries.  Then they died out.

 

Now, I can't run any of Apples last two OS releases or many programs. 

 

Sure, it's a long time to stay with one laptop, but it has performed admirable at what was asked of it even to this day.

 

but I have been waiting to replace it.  With a an UPGRADE in every area.  Not missing an optical drive and not with a smaller screen.

 

Just because something isn't a best seller doesn't mean to kill it off.

 

The only reason I can see Apple doing this is due to the expense of the larger screen with retina resolution and possible touch capability.

 

Even so, the professionals among us would prefer to have the option of paying more to get more, rather than using dumbed down, glorified iPads.

 

Sheesh.

 

Say it aint so, Apple!

post #96 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondko View Post

As a happy owner of a 17" aluminum Powerbook G4 (the last of its kind and optioned as far as options could be taken), I have been waiting for a long time to get a new 17" MBP.

 

I was a bit jaded by Apple obsoleting my notebook one month after I bought it. 

 

But I carried on, happy for the universal binaries.  Then they died out.

 

Now, I can't run any of Apples last two OS releases or many programs. 

 

Sure, it's a long time to stay with one laptop, but it has performed admirable at what was asked of it even to this day.

 

but I have been waiting to replace it.  With a an UPGRADE in every area.  Not missing an optical drive and not with a smaller screen.

 

Just because something isn't a best seller doesn't mean to kill it off.

 

The only reason I can see Apple doing this is due to the expense of the larger screen with retina resolution and possible touch capability.

 

Even so, the professionals among us would prefer to have the option of paying more to get more, rather than using dumbed down, glorified iPads.

 

Sheesh.

 

Say it aint so, Apple!

How is the current Sandy Bridge not a nearly entire upgrade?  I would think they only holdover is the optical drive.  

post #97 of 183
Very few buy the 13" MBP because of its price.

As to the pricing of the 15" & 17" yeah the price is a bit stiff and frankly now a bit out of line with reality. However let's assume for a minute their is a bit of truth in this rumor. This could simply be a way for Apple to lower the price point on a Pro quality machine. Assuming that a 15" MacBook offers the same performance as a MBP, then in effect Apple has cut the price of a Pro quality machine.

So maybe, just maybe, the goal here is for Apple to offer more price competitive hardware. This all assumes that any of the rumors here are true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

I wouldn't mind a 19 or 21 inch Macbook Pro.

13 inch sells more not because a smaller screen is preferred, but because its the lowest price point. If Apple would lower prices bigger sizes would sell more.
post #98 of 183

Geez. We all criticize analysts for their idiotic statements. But reading through the comments on this, I'm thinking the pot shouldn't call the kettle black. It's just a rumor. A month ago the rumor was that the Mac Pro line was being axed. Let's not get too excited. I will be surprised if it goes. Niche product, but still a market for it. 

post #99 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.
I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.

If price was an issue nobody would buy Apple products. In fact I see the opposite in many cases people buy Apple products even if that means suffering elsewhere.

In any event I will state again the price of the 13" MBP is not a factor in its sales. Very few buyers of this machine would even consider a 15" MBP.
post #100 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That's why every other car on the street is a Ferrari or a Lexus or a Mercedes, right? And every seat in the plane is first class. And the grocery store sells only the best cuts of beef.
I nominate your statement as 'ridiculous comment of the week'.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The 13" MBP has been Apples strongest selling laptop for a very long time. Even with the advent of the AIRs it is still the strongest selling Laptop in their lineup. So I don't see these figures as unrealistic.
Price has very little to do with what people buy.

 

 

I think what wizard69 meant was, the people who don't buy the 17" MBP isn't because its expensive. Its because of other factors. Its too large, its too heavy, too much of a pain in the ass to carry around with them, etc. If you're in the market for a 17" MBP and/or have purchased one in the past you're not necessarily worried about how much they cost. Price isn't the major contributing factor as to why the 17" MBP doesn't sell well anymore. Bigger isn't always better and its proving to be the case for most....you can see this buy looking at the break down in Apple laptop sales. The 13" is their biggest seller and has been for quite a while. 

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post #101 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

Geez. We all criticize analysts for their idiotic statements. But reading through the comments on this, I'm thinking the pot shouldn't call the kettle black. It's just a rumor. A month ago the rumor was that the Mac Pro line was being axed. Let's not get too excited. I will be surprised if it goes. Niche product, but still a market for it. 

 

Agreed.

 

I use my 17" Pro every day for graphics and photography. I have no issue with "lugging" it around because I want the extra screen real estate. I don't really need to buy a monitor since it's a nice balance of the size I like and portability. It works for me as a professional.

 

Anyway, I'd hate to see the 17" go, but all of this is rumors and we'll see what the real deal is next week.

post #102 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

It also has to be obvious to even a casual observer also that almost everyone defending the 17" as "irreplaceable" here is, well ... obviously older than the average user.  

 

Most of the thread has devolved into arguments about failing eyesight and resolution effects.  Most of the people who "need the real estate" are still managing windows like it's 1999 and are seemingly unaware of the uses of multiple desktops, full screen switching or expose/mission control.  

 

What we are seeing is a battle of "old-school" computer users vs. younger, or more forward thinking users.

 

For that reason, I don't think there is any resolution in sight

(bad pun, I know)

 

I've often found that the 17" is harder to see, especially the high res model. People will always have their opinions and why the 17" is necessary. 1.7% think its necessary, not exactly a large percentage of the buyers. Yes, I agree...there are better ways to manage windows. You don't need windows on top of windows, on top of windows. Apple has created features such as Spaces (aka Mission Control in Lion), exposé, trackpad gestures for easy navigation to these windows and features. People just need to learn to use them. I use a 15" MBP 5 days a week with multiple windows and applications open without any issues. I have Workgroup manager windows, ARD, Windows Remote Desktop, Safari, OS X Mail, iChat, etc windows open all day long. Its really not that hard to manage them. The 15" screen still allows you to put 2 documents side by side without cutting off any part of the document. I have used Photoshop with this 15" screen without any issues. 

 

Apple wouldn't just kill a product just to do it. So one may think...so what..1.7% is quite a few users, but it gets to the point of where is it profitable for Apple to keep this product going. They still have to engineer both hardware and software updates specially for the 17" MBP and if they see its only for 1.7% of the Mac laptop user base (which is 1% or less of actual Mac sales) then they're going to decide to drop the product so they can focus their efforts on the products that sell. Also, like I said before, the 17" MBP no longer fits into their current/future product strategy. Every company does this and yes, it leaves people to figure out other options. For example, people love the Dodge Challenger and Ford Mustang, but Chrysler is eventually going to replace it with something else, or simply drop it altogether for various reasons. The same could be true for the Ford Mustang. So the customers who have them that want to upgrade, or plan on buying one down the road will no longer have that option. Its just how it is...

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post #103 of 183

I do video editing and like to be mobile when I do it.  The 17" Macbook pro was perfect for doing so.  With time lines and a video preview it can get tight, but still doable.  If they could keep the 17" line and add the retina display, that would be absolutely perfect.  If they give us a 15" with a retina display and drop the 17" screen, this won't do much good for me because I don't want to sit 2 inches away from the laptop to see what I'm doing.  I'm hoping that rumor doesn't materialize.

post #104 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdinkins View Post

I do video editing and like to be mobile when I do it.  The 17" Macbook pro was perfect for doing so.  With time lines and a video preview it can get tight, but still doable.  If they could keep the 17" line and add the retina display, that would be absolutely perfect.  If they give us a 15" with a retina display and drop the 17" screen, this won't do much good for me because I don't want to sit 2 inches away from the laptop to see what I'm doing.  I'm hoping that rumor doesn't materialize.

Yeah -- I liked using the 17" MacBook Pro for professional purposes such as software development on the go. I can fit more lines of code on-screen while still being readable.

 

I like some people's attitude that larger laptops are "old school" or a "fad". Well, no, there are practical reasons for a larger laptop. It makes an excellent portable workstation.

post #105 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

This is a stupid article. Axe the MacBookPro altogether?  Yeah, right.  If Apple discontinued the MacBook, and they are coming out with a new Mac Book?  And now they are going to axe the MacBookPro for MacBooks?

It sounds like someone just got their 420 card and seems to be celebrating a little too much.

Yeah, the headline screamed sensationalist tabloid bs for the click traffic. Analysts get way too much credibility on this site. You might as well have a headline that reads "Tim Cook still expected to bite head off live chicken at WWDC, drink its blood on stage."

It'd be even better if AppleInsider clearly indicated which articles are rumor and which are factual news, but most people can figure it out. But a lot of people posting in the forums seem to take this article as if Apple just announced the death of the MBP without really questioning the source. Do I think AppleInsider has a responsibility to better-inform readers? Yes.

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post #106 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post 

 

What we are seeing is a battle of "old-school" computer users vs. younger, or more forward thinking users.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Señor Old-school

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post #107 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

If price was an issue nobody would buy Apple products. In fact I see the opposite in many cases people buy Apple products even if that means suffering elsewhere.
In any event I will state again the price of the 13" MBP is not a factor in its sales. Very few buyers of this machine would even consider a 15" MBP.

What you said was "Price has very little to do with what people buy."

So you're saying that no one even looks at price. That's an incredibly foolish thing to say - and you're doubling down by repeating it.

No one said that price was the only consideration. Obviously, people consider other things besides price - which is why people buy Apple products (although this is a bad example because most Apple products are very competitive today) and Lexus and Mercedes, and so on. But the fact that people will occasionally buy a more expensive product does not justify your absurd statement that price doesn't affect the buying decision much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post



I think what wizard69 meant was, the people who don't buy the 17" MBP isn't because its expensive. Its because of other factors. Its too large, its too heavy, too much of a pain in the ass to carry around with them, etc. If you're in the market for a 17" MBP and/or have purchased one in the past you're not necessarily worried about how much they cost. Price isn't the major contributing factor as to why the 17" MBP doesn't sell well anymore. Bigger isn't always better and its proving to be the case for most....you can see this buy looking at the break down in Apple laptop sales. The 13" is their biggest seller and has been for quite a while. 

That may be what wizard69 meant, but that's not what he said. Furthermore, neither you nor he has provided a shred of evidence to back up your position. In fact, several people here have specifically cited price as a factor which prevented them from buying a 17".

Until you have some evidence otherwise, your (and his) assertion that "Price has very little to do with what people buy" is completely unsupported - and contrary to simple logic and common experience.
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post #108 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yeah, the headline screamed sensationalist tabloid bs for the click traffic. Analysts get way too much credibility on this site. You might as well have a headline that reads "Tim Cook still expected to bite head off live chicken at WWDC, drink its blood on stage."
It'd be even better if AppleInsider clearly indicated which articles are rumor and which are factual news, but most people can figure it out. But a lot of people posting in the forums seem to take this article as if Apple just announced the death of the MBP without really questioning the source. Do I think AppleInsider has a responsibility to better-inform readers? Yes.

Considering some of the responses seen so far would it do any good? If people can't separate out this speculation from fact or distinguish what is speculation then I doubt telling them out right would do any good. It is a sad state of affairs when nobody in the country is capable of critical thinking. It is no wonder the global warming crowd has such a large following on such flimsy evidence these days.

People that can't grasp the nature of the conversation here should just wait for WWDC. At that point one can make informed decisions on the new product line. Otherwise to base ones buying decisions off these rumors is just nuts.
post #109 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

How in the world would you conclude that Apple doesn't build powerful small computers?

Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, and Samsung have until the last year put out the latest chips months and even a year before Apple would adopt them.

 

When I was shopping for a computer in late 2007 I considered the Mini. It would have been my first Apple product. On the forums the posters were regularly stating that any day now the Mini would be updated. It wasn't. It took a year and a half for it to be refreshed. During that time and in subsequent years the timelines of Apple computer updates were posted. So many models were refreshed much later than their previous history had indicated that many believed Apple had given up on the computer business in order to focus on the iPhone and iPod lines.

 

The chips put into the Apple computers were usually not the latest and greatest. They were close, usually the last generation. Apple did innovate with the Mac Book Air. The price was $1899 or more at the introduction. Then they kept the same chips in it for almost two years. That is what Apple has done for the last few years. They put in a decent chip and keep it for way too long before updating it. The competition updates faster. This year Apple is using the latest chips and we suspect they'll use the Ivy Bridge boards. How long will those stay in their computers? Their history indicates that they'll have them long into the next Intel update while other manufacturers will have the newest components in their high end offerings.

 

Apple introduced Lightpeak a.k.a. Thunderbolt. That was a good innovation but how much of the designing did Apple do? I don't know. Was Intel the designer with Apple as the consulting customer? Maybe Intel just needed a manufacturer to commit to the technology and Apple saw the vision and agreed to implement it first.

 

Look at the Mac Pro. It's as if Apple does some work on it every year and a half and then puts it in a closet until they come across it again. It's the same with the 17" Mac Book Pro. Apple is now a telephone manufacturer that makes computers. I bet Apple would prefer to dump the 17" laptop and retool that manufacturing floor for making iPhones. There would be fewer shortages and they would make up for the lost computer sales very quickly by selling more iPhones faster than they do now.

 

I want Apple to build a small Mini tower or a Mac Book Air size computer with the same components that are going into the Mac Book Pros i.e. multi-core i7 processors with hyperthreading with 8+ GB RAM. It should also have plenty of ports including USB 3. That would be a proper powerful small computer.


Edited by Smallwheels - 6/8/12 at 2:22pm
post #110 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

What you said was "Price has very little to do with what people buy."
So you're saying that no one even looks at price. That's an incredibly foolish thing to say - and you're doubling down by repeating it.
Because it is the right thing to say! People go for the 13" MBP because it has the right set of features. Think about it there is a 13" AIR to be had but yet the MBP out sells it.
Quote:
No one said that price was the only consideration. Obviously, people consider other things besides price - which is why people buy Apple products (although this is a bad example because most Apple products are very competitive today) and Lexus and Mercedes, and so on. But the fact that people will occasionally buy a more expensive product does not justify your absurd statement that price doesn't affect the buying decision much.
In the context of this thread though I still believe my points are correct.
Quote:
That may be what wizard69 meant, but that's not what he said. Furthermore, neither you nor he has provided a shred of evidence to back up your position. In fact, several people here have specifically cited price as a factor which prevented them from buying a 17".
Now you are changing the discussion. This is in regards to the choice between the 13" and 15" machine. Nothing I've seen indicates that choices between these to machines is primarily cost. It may be for a few but I suspect most are motivated by size.
Quote:
Until you have some evidence otherwise, your (and his) assertion that "Price has very little to do with what people buy" is completely unsupported - and contrary to simple logic and common experience.

Bull crap. If price was the only issue in a purchase iPhone would have failed long ago, and the AIRs would have replaced all other notebooks by now.
post #111 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

If I were Apple, I would try adjusting the price of the 17" MacBook Pro first to see if that improves sales rather than throwing in the towel. The question is do people purchase the smaller models because of size or price? I am thinking the 17" is unpopular because of cost, not size. It starts at $2,499 which is a tad pricey for the average Joe.

The 17" is unpopular because of the damn weight. I buy a laptop because it is portable. The MBA is selling like hot cakes because it's very portable. The 15" MBP is right at the cusp of being able to be carried open with one hand. I was hoping that Apple would keep the 17" around in an "Air" version, then it would be at a more manageable weight.

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post #112 of 183

Somewhat disappointing news for me. I love my MBP 17". Was thinking to update my 17" this year but after reading this sad news, can't think of buying 15 incher anytime soon for sure. Probably I should now bump up the RAM and call it a day. I personally don't like optical drives so I would rather also just add another SSD and take out the optical drive. Not sure why Apple is discontinuing 17" as it was pretty obvious from day one that that machine is not for majority of users. They should not expect it to outsell smaller toys. Edited: Not to mention, I have MP, 13" 15", Air, iPad and iPhone. 95% of my time I use 17".


Edited by Aegean - 6/8/12 at 3:53pm
post #113 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

So he should surrender to a smaller screen because a multi-billion dollar company deserves his ongoing support for this "bravery"? Hopefully it is sarcasm...


Agreed although many of us probably had a similar philosophy more than 7 or 8 years ago. Apple now has the largest market capitalization of any non-financial corporation in the world. If Apple stops making a product I need or want then Apple abandoned me as a customer not the other way around. High end products by their very nature have low sales so what difference does if make if particular product has less than 2% of sales in its category as long as a good profit is being made selling that product. According to the sales philosophy of some the posters here General Motors should stop making Cadillacs and Ford should stop making Lincolns because they don't have as high sales totals as Chevys and Fords.

post #114 of 183

MacBook: 11" and 13", virtually identical to the current MacBook Airs.

MacBook Pro: 13", 15" and 17". Thinner and lighter than current design, with a less reflective screen. 13" would be heavier, but would be more powerful (hence 'Pro').

 

That's what I think'll happen.

post #115 of 183

I think the primary factor behind poor sales of the 17" MBP is Apple's pricing scheme. If you want a large screen you have never had any choice but to buy the most expensive MacBook or switch to Windows. I don't need high end performance, but I do want as much screen real estate as I can comfortably carry.

 

In my office everyone has lots of screen real estate. Full time staff have a 23" 1920x1080 external display in addition to their Mac. It has allowed many people who used to carry 15" MacBook Pros to move to the 13" MacBook Air. Others have gone the other direction and chosen a 27" iMac. Most of those people either don't work from home or have a complete work environment set up at home.

 

Our project managers fall in between. They need to be highly portable, but cannot afford to sacrifice screen real estate when they're away from their desks. They all have 17" MacBook Pros. I'm not a PM, but I feel the same way. I normally have >10 applications open at the same time and frequently need to see information from multiple windows at the same time. Even with a 1920x1200 screen I feel cramped when I can't toss windows onto a secondary display.

 

I could work in a smaller space but I'd be less efficient. Plus, as my eyes age, I find myself using zoom buttons more and more each year. I need to be able to do that without half my document disappearing off the edge of the screen.

 

My boss wishes Apple would make a 19" or 20" MacBook Pro so he could do more when he's away from his desk, but even those of us with 17" MBPs think he's crazy ;)

post #116 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

The 17" is unpopular because of the damn weight. I buy a laptop because it is portable. The MBA is selling like hot cakes because it's very portable. The 15" MBP is right at the cusp of being able to be carried open with one hand. I was hoping that Apple would keep the 17" around in an "Air" version, then it would be at a more manageable weight.

 

The 17" MacBookPro was design to replace the desktop. However, u can carry it around if you have to. I still love my 17" MacBookPro 2.16, which I use to develop website and run Adobe CS 5.5 on it. In the fall I was eagerly contemplating updating it, to a new model for Adobe CS 6. I ascertain I'll just get one of the recent MacBookPro,  to replace my antiquated computer. I don't how  "new school" can work on 10"- 15" screen to work in Photoshop, to 3D Animation type Apps out there. Never carry your portable computer with one hand.

post #117 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, and Samsung have until the last year put out the latest chips months and even a year before Apple would adopt them.

When I was shopping for a computer in late 2007 I considered the Mini. It would have been my first Apple product. On the forums the posters were regularly stating that any day now the Mini would be updated. It wasn't. It took a year and a half for it to be refreshed. During that time and in subsequent years the timelines of Apple computer updates were posted. So many models were refreshed much later than their previous history had indicated that many believed Apple had given up on the computer business in order to focus on the iPhone and iPod lines.

The chips put into the Apple computers were usually not the latest and greatest. They were close, usually the last generation. Apple did innovate with the Mac Book Air. The price was $1899 or more at the introduction. Then they kept the same chips in it for almost two years. That is what Apple has done for the last few years. They put in a decent chip and keep it for way too long before updating it. The competition updates faster. This year Apple is using the latest chips and we suspect they'll use the Ivy Bridge boards. How long will those stay in their computers? Their history indicates that they'll have them long into the next Intel update while other manufacturers will have the newest components in their high end offerings.

Apple introduced Lightpeak a.k.a. Thunderbolt. That was a good innovation but how much of the designing did Apple do? I don't know. Was Intel the designer with Apple as the consulting customer? Maybe Intel just needed a manufacturer to commit to the technology and Apple saw the vision and agreed to implement it first.

Look at the Mac Pro. It's as if Apple does some work on it every year and a half and then puts it in a closet until they come across it again. It's the same with the 17" Mac Book Pro. Apple is now a telephone manufacturer that makes computers. I bet Apple would prefer to dump the 17" laptop and retool that manufacturing floor for making iPhones. There would be fewer shortages and they would make up for the lost computer sales very quickly by selling more iPhones faster than they do now.

I want Apple to build a small Mini tower or a Mac Book Air size computer with the same components that are going into the Mac Book Pros i.e. multi-core i7 processors with hyperthreading with 8+ GB RAM. It should also have plenty of ports including USB 3. That would be a proper powerful small computer.

OK, so there are a few cases where someone else had a new chip shortly before Apple did. How in the world do you get from that to "Apple doesn't make fast small computers?"

Apple's computers are very competitive overall. The fact that someone else might occasionally have an extra 0.1 GHz is not particularly relevant. Apple's computers are fast - and well within the range of comparable systems. And for some (MacBook Air, for example), everyone else is playing catch up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Bull crap. If price was the only issue in a purchase iPhone would have failed long ago, and the AIRs would have replaced all other notebooks by now.

No one ever said that price was the ONLY issue.

OTOH, you said that price doesn't matter and isn't considered in deciding which computer to purchase. That is, of course, absurd. By that logic, Apple could double the price of all their computers and wouldn't lose any business.

In the REAL world (you ought to visit some time), price is a very important consideration. Not the only one, but quite important.
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post #118 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by messiah40 View Post

The 17" MacBookPro was design to replace the desktop. However, u can carry it around if you have to. I still love my 17" MacBookPro 2.16, which I use to develop website and run Adobe CS 5.5 on it. In the fall I was eagerly contemplating updating it, to a new model for Adobe CS 6. I ascertain I'll just get one of the recent MacBookPro,  to replace my antiquated computer. I don't how  "new school" can work on 10"- 15" screen to work in Photoshop, to 3D Animation type Apps out there. Never carry your portable computer with one hand.



I think you're right. I don't see it being likely for Apple to not sell a 17" laptop.

Is it possible that they'll transition to a lighter, thinner model without ODD? Sure. And it's even possible that they'll only transition the 13" and 15" now and the 17" later. I just don't see them dropping 17" entirely, though.
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post #119 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by champ01 View Post

Ofcourse the sales on the 17" are the lowest.  ITS A VERY EXPENSIVE LAPTOP!!!!

 

The ones that buy it NEED the size. That it sells less then other doesn't say Apple should kill it.

Pro market demands it period. If you're not in that area you shouldn't even talk about it.

 

Should Apple kill the Mac Pro also because the sales are so low? Hell no.

Apple would kill itself out of the Pro market by doing so. ;)

 

Aren't margins on 17" MBPs higher than the equivalent 15" MBP? Why would Apple kill it?

I think you guys are all overreacting to what some "analyst" says. They aren't the final word, and neither is AppleInsider when it's republishing rumors. Please wait until Apple kills it before pressing the panic button. Then run around screaming woe.

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post #120 of 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I think you're right. I don't see it being likely for Apple to not sell a 17" laptop.
Is it possible that they'll transition to a lighter, thinner model without ODD? Sure. And it's even possible that they'll only transition the 13" and 15" now and the 17" later. I just don't see them dropping 17" entirely, though.

 

They could be waiting until 17" retina displays are available.

Same reason they won't kill the MacPro: an update was eventually coming.

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