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Inside Apple's rumored 'new MacBook' vs. updated MacBook Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I just hope Apple (Tim) keeps in mind that the second coming of Steve was about new innovation and simplification of the product line. The last thing Apple should do is have too many products. IMHO they won't make that mistake.

LOL - who do you think taught Steve how to cut down supply chain fat and reduce inventory and waste?  = Tim Cook.    

 

All the "second coming of Steve" crap is a joke - do people really think all the great products and progress Apple made in the last 10 years was all done personally by Steve Jobs?   Really?   It takes thousands of Apple employees years to roll out these new products.  One of the best thing Steve did when he returned was to hire smart people and let them do their job.  Sure the press like to tell stories about Steve and quote "former Apple employees",  but I have no doubt that Apple is in good hands and will continue to develop great products that customers love.

 

If anything, Tim Cook might be a little more flexible and willing to do things like release a thinner MacBook Pro line while still retaining a 15" model that has a built-in optical drive.  Steve would have probably cancelled that all together and a bunch of people would have complained - and rightly so, because some professionals still have use for an optical drive.

 

Have faith all ye doubters.   

post #42 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Did you vomit for the six years the aluminum PowerBook design was used? How about the titanium PowerBook design? :wherefore_art_thou,_rolleyes_emoticon.gif:

 

Yes I did, and I also didn't own one until it came with the black bezel. $1700 is not an unsubstantial purchase. If I don't care for the looks of it, I won't buy it. The black bezel helps it blend into the background better, making the transition more appealing and the screen seem larger. The metal bezel looks large in comparison, and my personal opinion (which I believe I am entitled to) is that it looks like crap.

post #43 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxing85 View Post

Please be 14" and 16" with narrow edge. Makes much more sense to consolidate this way.

 

13"-->14"<--15"-->16"<--17"

Like this

Note: you can only choose two from Price Thin and Power

 

you can only choose two

 

Sorry for the bad image. did it in sketch book in 5 min

post #44 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post
There is too much Intel GPU. It will be pretty bad if they only use dedicated in 15" model.

 

So it's "pretty bad" now is what you're saying?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwindmann View Post
Yes I did, and I also didn't own one until it came with the black bezel.

 

So you had PCs before that?

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post #45 of 115
Quote:

 

 

So you had PCs before that?

 

Yes, I'll suffer PCs if I have to look at something all day long that I don't like.

post #46 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwindmann View Post
Yes, I'll suffer PCs if I have to look at something all day long that I don't like.

 

Your priorities are horribly, horribly skewed, I think. lol.gif

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post #47 of 115

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Yes, four choices is SO HARD to understand.    All you anal-retentives out there need to calm down.   There's nothing wrong with making different models for different types of users.     

 

It's most certainly not shades of the Performa days.  And even after Steve's return, it took a long time to drop to just a handful of products:

 

1995: 38 Desktops/Towers, 10 PowerBooks

1996: 40 Desktops/Towers, 4 PowerBooks

1997: 45 Desktops/Towers, 8 PowerBooks

(Steve returns in July of '97)

1998: 14 Desktops/Towers, 14 PowerBooks

1999:  20 Desktops/Towers, 3 iBooks, PowerBooks

2000: 13 Desktops/Towers, 16 iBooks, PowerBooks

2001: 16 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops

2002: 21 Desktops/Towers, 16 laptops

2003: 18 Desktops/Towers, 13 laptops

2004: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops

2005: 19 Desktops/Towers, 10 laptops

2006: 15 Desktops/Towers, 17 laptops

2007: 10 Desktops/Towers, 9 laptops

2008: 6 Desktops/Towers, 19 laptops

2009: 14 Desktops/Towers, 12 laptops 

2010: 9 Desktops/Towers, 11 laptops, 6 iPads

2011: 7 Desktops/Towers, 14 laptops, 6 iPads (18 configurations)

 

First, it seems you may need a bit of help understanding the common usage of "shades of...". Here you go: http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/shades_of.htm  (hint, it doesn't mean "exactly the same")

 

Posting a comment on a rumor = not calm in your circle of influence? The only one that doesn't seem calm is yourself. Unbunch your panties, take a deep breath and repeat after me, "Other people have different opinions, I shouldn't take it personally."  lol.gif

 

-kpluck

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post #48 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Your priorities are horribly, horribly skewed, I think. lol.gif

 

Would you purchase a $32,999.999 metalflake purple car with 2" wheels? Nah, you probably wouldn't like that.

post #49 of 115

The MacBook Pro series (and perhaps the MacBook Air series) may be getting an upgrade immediately next Monday so as to keep up with WIntel machines, whereas the rumored MacBook series may not be available until later this year or maybe even early next year. That’s the reason why MacBook Pros are not getting retina displays this summer. Most likely the displays are not quite read yet - at least not in the quantity necessary to keep up with the projected demand. In fact, the new retina MacBooks may not even be announced next Monday because, as many have pointed out, such an announcement would hamper sales of MacBook Pros.

 

If the MacBook rumor is true, the MacBook Pro will most likely be discontinued when MacBooks are introduced later this year (or early next year) with retina displays. Apple may decide to keep the 17” MacBook Pro as the premium powerhouse laptop choice, just like Mac Pro is the premium desktop computer in the Apple’s lineup.

 

I’m predicting that when the new retina MacBooks are introduced, the MacBook Air series will be discontinued as well. There will be MacBooks of the following sizes: 11”, 13”, and 15”. As for 17”, it would either be discontinued or kept as MacBook Pro in the current form factor (not slim). 

 

There’s too much overlap among the three products: the New iPad, the MacBook Air, and the new retina MacBook. This leads to consumer confusion, and sales of all products suffer as a result. Apple must eliminate one of the three, and we know it’s not going to be the iPad. So, if the new slim retina MacBook is introduced, 13” MacBook Air will have to go. 

post #50 of 115

Only a person out of his mind could be buying the Ivy Bridge MBPs. OK, there are people who still need optical drive. But do those people also need performance? I doubt that... So if i were one of them I would buy last year's model and save money.

post #51 of 115
Retina display and Intel HD 4000 isnt a good combination for anything more than browsing the web.
post #52 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

So it's "pretty bad" now is what you're saying?

 

 

Yes. To have a notebook with dedicated GPU you must pay 1800$ for a 15" Macbook Pro. In Macbook Airs it's acceptable to use an integrated GPU, because there is no room. After leaving the ODD behind they should use dedicated in the 13" Macbook.

post #53 of 115
In order to sell 3 iPhone models @ the same time, Apple will have to continue differentiating all 3 models to avoid confusion. Whereas, Apple only sells the current model of iPad & its notebook & desktop lines

Cheers !
Cheers !
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post #54 of 115

AMD just announced the first SDK API and Device Driver to be OpenCL 1.2 conformant on the CPU and GPU.

 

http://blogs.amd.com/developer/2012/05/21/opencl%E2%84%A2-1-2-and-c-static-kernel-language-now-available/

 

and this site is talking about Apple [inventors of OpenCL] using Nvidia who could give a rat's ass about OpenCL next to its precious CUDA?

post #55 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post

 

 

Yes. To have a notebook with dedicated GPU you must pay 1800$ for a 15" Macbook Pro. In Macbook Airs it's acceptable to use an integrated GPU, because there is no room. After leaving the ODD behind they should use dedicated in the 13" Macbook.

 

The cost of an AMD 7770M is around $50.

post #56 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post

Retina display and Intel HD 4000 isnt a good combination for anything more than browsing the web.

Based on what?

I use my laptop as a general purpose business computer - word processing, spreadsheets, slide presentations, email, very light photo editing, etc. Retina display and HD 4000 would be just fine. What gives you the right to dictate that it's not useful for me (and many others like me)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmiku View Post

Only a person out of his mind could be buying the Ivy Bridge MBPs. OK, there are people who still need optical drive. But do those people also need performance? I doubt that... So if i were one of them I would buy last year's model and save money.

What's wrong with someone who needs an optical drive? Lots of people do.

Apple makes a series of computers with discrete characteristics. Simply rejecting one model because it doesn't suit YOU is incredibly egotistical.
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post #57 of 115

I don't think people who need ODD are idiots. I just don't think this kind of people need performance. Therefore they could buy current MBPs for a discounted price.

post #58 of 115
"If" Apple keeps the MacBook Pro line and introduces another line, it would be to minimize risk in a more radical redesign. I'm confident that Apple is not so risk adverse to do this for just optical drive support. I'm guessing these new systems have touch and a significant difference in formfactor "if" we get a new product line. If we don't get a new line and they are replacements, they may still have touch but could just be more like the airs in formfactor.

Anyway, I am due for a refresh in 6 months at work and looking forward to updated systems no matter what they are.
post #59 of 115

I don't understand - adding touch screen is a risky move? Why?

post #60 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Based on what?
I use my laptop as a general purpose business computer - word processing, spreadsheets, slide presentations, email, very light photo editing, etc. Retina display and HD 4000 would be just fine. What gives you the right to dictate that it's not useful for me (and many others like me)?

 

"word processing, spreadsheets, slide presentations, email" aren't more demanding than browsing the web you can do it on a really old notebook too.

Using anything what requires more performance would be a problem with integrated gpu on 2560x1600 resolution.

post #61 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandman619 View Post

In order to sell 3 iPhone models @ the same time, Apple will have to continue differentiating all 3 models to avoid confusion. Whereas, Apple only sells the current model of iPad & its notebook & desktop lines
Cheers !

Not true. Apple also sells the previous generation iPad.

Apple has also in the past kept previous generation laptops around for a while - the polycarbonate MacBook, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xmiku View Post

I don't think people who need ODD are idiots. I just don't think this kind of people need performance. Therefore they could buy current MBPs for a discounted price.

And who are you to say what people need?

And what in the world makes you think that the subset of people who need ODD does not overlap the subset of people who needs performance? In fact, chances are that the overlap is pretty substantial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post

"word processing, spreadsheets, slide presentations, email" aren't more demanding than browsing the web you can do it on a really old notebook too.
Using anything what requires more performance would be a problem with integrated gpu on 2560x1600 resolution.

Let's back up. You said "Retina display and Intel HD 4000 isnt a good combination for anything more than browsing the web."

I use my laptop for much more than browsing the web and HD 4000 would be fine for me.

Therefore, you were wrong.
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post #62 of 115

I think you're missing some details on the 13" Pro: the leaks to date suggest that it is not the same form-factor as the current lineup. While the resolution is unchanged, and it still has a DVD drive, the dimensions are notably smaller than the current 13" Pro, suggesting a nearly edge to edge screen display along with a case that's smaller in every dimension.

post #63 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by GS Turn View Post

I think they are just keeping the PRO for those who still need a Optical drive. They can't switch completely away from that yet.  They won't expect to sell many of the PRO models but they are beefing them up to the same performance level for those that still need that Optical drive.  This new model is the replacement for the PRO but they need to keep an Optical drive model around for a while.

 

This new model will be more powerful than the Airs so they won't combine those two models.

If the Macbook has the same performance as the "Pro", for all of the 5 times a year I use an optical drive, I'd be happier to buy an external one and use it on those occassions, leaving me with a more compact laptop for travel.

post #64 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post

 

"word processing, spreadsheets, slide presentations, email" aren't more demanding than browsing the web you can do it on a really old notebook too.

Using anything what requires more performance would be a problem with integrated gpu on 2560x1600 resolution.

I agree completely with this sentiment, and that of other posters who have pointed out that Ivy Bridge + HD4000 + Retina Display will not cut ice.

 

Now looking at what might be happening next week, it would seem Apple wishes to have its cake and eat it as far as the Macbook range goes - be this Pro or Air -and I can quite understand this.

 

As it stands, many users, myself included - are opposed to losing the optical drive, ability to upgrade RAM and I/O ports, specifically FW800 for a slimmer, lighter form factor with longer battery life - however, Apple is making its intent known that the full blown MBA's best days are behind it, and like it or not, Apple wishes to transition users to the cloud and drop I/O ports apart from TB by the seems of it.

 

FWIW, within 18 months Apple will make the transition to its smaller, thinner form factor and drop much of the kit I personally like - they will concentrate on the mobility and battery life side of the equation, particularly in relation to Retina displays.

 

To summarise, its my opinion Apple is in a transitionary mode and trying to move its users towards the cloud and wifi reliant forms of transferring data, if it made this leap in one go, it would alienate a fair number of its user-base, so we have a softly softly approach in line with the CEO's and Schillers thinking - Perhaps more importantly though, this year is a test bed and early adopters of the Retina displays will be Guinea Pig's testing out a new platform that with the delivery of Intel's Haswell technology next year will come into its own.

 

My advice, get the end of the line Pro models when you can and purchase AppleCare, they will not be available by the end of 2013, by which time Haswell will have been adopted and as many have stated, don't go near a Air with IB and HD4000, wait until Haswell which really can drive a Retina display.

 

I hope they adopt a conservative approach to revising the iMac as well.

post #65 of 115
That would be the whole point wouldn't it? If users accept these machines the Pros can then be discontinued.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges View Post

That makes no sense. The MacBook was an entry level notebook that had just above adequate specs. This one is better than the MacBook Pro. And they're the same price? It doesn't make any sense. It would kill MacBook Pro sales.
post #66 of 115

I've owned dozens of notebooks including a 2007 15' MBP but my 2011 13" Macbook Air is the first laptop I've ever used. Completely different form factor and a perfect adjunct to my iMac 27" i7. No iPad envy either! 15" big hit for Apple.

post #67 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy View Post

Ok, so Apple is going to keep the MacBook Pro and rename the MacBook Air to just MacBook.  Then next year they drop the Pro and just have one MacBook line.  What's so hard to understand about that?

There's no way they are going to stop making something approximately as thin as the Air, but something as thin as the Air can't accomodate enough power to satisfy all their customers. That's a minimum of two MacBooks, and there's no way around it.
post #68 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwindmann View Post
Would you purchase a $32,999.999 metalflake purple car with 2" wheels? Nah, you probably wouldn't like that.

 

How is this in any way a valid response?

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post #69 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why would the 13" AND the 15" have 2560x1600?

And I only ask that because the 15" sticker we saw said that and not 2880x1800.

 

Hopefully because the sticker is fake.  Otherwise we will get 1280x800 effective screen real estate on a 15" screen.

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post #70 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmiku View Post

I don't understand - adding touch screen is a risky move? Why?

Didn't say it was in itself. Was saying that if the formfactor was risky. Just adding touch isn't what I would consider a risk. Removing the trackpad and relying touch might be. One other radical change would be systems based on ARM. I really don't think Apple will just add models for the hell of it. Either they will be a really different class of device or they will take on the risk for things like no optical drive.
post #71 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Chrisr View Post

I agree completely with this sentiment, and that of other posters who have pointed out that Ivy Bridge + HD4000 + Retina Display will not cut ice.

Based on what? The MBA is already a huge seller for Apple and Ivy Bridge + HD4000 would be a big step up.

In addition, many, many Pro users would be fine with it - I know I would.

So what's your evidence that it won't cut the ice?

Granted, there is a small subset of laptop users who needs discrete graphics, but since no one is suggesting that Apple will eliminate discrete graphics, that's not an issue. It will remain available.

So why won't Ivy Bridge and HD4000 work? How about some facts (or at least plausible argument) to back up your position. You can start by showing us the number of people who use their laptops for anything which requires more power than the HD4000 can provide.
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post #72 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Chrisr View Post

I agree completely with this sentiment, and that of other posters who have pointed out that Ivy Bridge + HD4000 + Retina Display will not cut ice.

Based on what? The MBA is already a huge seller for Apple and Ivy Bridge + HD4000 would be a big step up.
In addition, many, many Pro users would be fine with it - I know I would.
So what's your evidence that it won't cut the ice?
Granted, there is a small subset of laptop users who needs discrete graphics, but since no one is suggesting that Apple will eliminate discrete graphics, that's not an issue. It will remain available.
So why won't Ivy Bridge and HD4000 work? How about some facts (or at least plausible argument) to back up your position. You can start by showing us the number of people who use their laptops for anything which requires more power than the HD4000 can provide.

 

The HD4000, while a "big step up", is still a fair bit less than twice as fast as the HD3000 in real world tests. If we're being generous we can go with Intel's 2x benchmarks. Fine. The Retina display doubles the pixel dimensions of the screen, quadrupling the number of pixel. So that's half the graphics power per pixel of the previous generation laptop. I think that's fair to call not cutting ice.

post #73 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Based on what? The MBA is already a huge seller for Apple and Ivy Bridge + HD4000 would be a big step up.
In addition, many, many Pro users would be fine with it - I know I would.
So what's your evidence that it won't cut the ice?
Granted, there is a small subset of laptop users who needs discrete graphics, but since no one is suggesting that Apple will eliminate discrete graphics, that's not an issue. It will remain available.
So why won't Ivy Bridge and HD4000 work? How about some facts (or at least plausible argument) to back up your position. You can start by showing us the number of people who use their laptops for anything which requires more power than the HD4000 can provide.

 

Games?

 

Intel 3770K CPU with HD 4000 GPU can hardly handle World of Warcraft on 1920x1200 resolution screen with 25fps on lowest settings at a place what deserted and made 5 years ago. We talk about a desktop CPU what is more powerful than mobile versions. And to be honest we know WOW isn't that demanding game. Just imagine what fps can we get if we use it on 2560x1800.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnYpLZGOMQc

post #74 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I just hope Apple (Tim) keeps in mind that the second coming of Steve was about new innovation and simplification of the product line. The last thing Apple should do is have too many products. IMHO they won't make that mistake.

You mean like they did in the 90s?

post #75 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by landilevente View Post

 

Games?

 

If gaming sold computers Apple would be there.

Gaming is done on phones, tablets, and consoles.

Gaming on computers is a niche market so there really isn't a point for Apple to invest in that area.

post #76 of 115

I wish to ditch the optical drive but keep the ethernet port.  Configuring routers and such requires it, and I don't want to carry an accessory cable to USB.  Other than that, keep it fast, discreet graphics and hopefully 2 drives!

post #77 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by technohermit View Post

I wish to ditch the optical drive but keep the ethernet port.  Configuring routers and such requires it, and I don't want to carry an accessory cable to USB.  Other than that, keep it fast, discreet graphics and hopefully 2 drives!

At the rumoured 0.74" that seems feasible. The way I see it ethernet is essential in much the same way that video out is essential. A large majority don't use them (ever) but it would kill a very large number of buyers because there is no suitable replacement for those that can use it. Sure, you can use an ethernet dongle over USB but you can do the same thin with video out, too. One big difference is that ethernet over USB isn't as secure as a built-in ethernet port where a company might require the MAC address for a particular switch port or VLAN on their network.

I don't care about the 2 drives so long as there is an SSD card (like in the MBA) and a 2.5" HDD/SSD space, or a hybrid SSD/HDD drive. That said, those leaked spec sheets don't make it look promising.

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post #78 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwindmann View Post

Yes I did, and I also didn't own one until it came with the black bezel. $1700 is not an unsubstantial purchase. If I don't care for the looks of it, I won't buy it. The black bezel helps it blend into the background better, making the transition more appealing and the screen seem larger. The metal bezel looks large in comparison, and my personal opinion (which I believe I am entitled to) is that it looks like crap.

That it flows more smoothly, that makes sense. However, the bezel is at least twice as wide when they switched to black. The suggestion that it makes the screen seem larger doesn't make sense, that illusion should go away when the screen is on.
post #79 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

At the rumoured 0.74" that seems feasible. The way I see it ethernet is essential in much the same way that video out is essential. A large majority don't use them (ever) but it would kill a very large number of buyers because there is no suitable replacement for those that can use it. Sure, you can use an ethernet dongle over USB but you can do the same thin with video out, too. One big difference is that ethernet over USB isn't as secure as a built-in ethernet port where a company might require the MAC address for a particular switch port or VLAN on their network.

Do you know why is Ethernet over USB isn't considered as secure? MAC addresses are mutable, even if the chip is hard wired into a computer board.

Quote:
I don't care about the 2 drives so long as there is an SSD card (like in the MBA) and a 2.5" HDD/SSD space, or a hybrid SSD/HDD drive. That said, those leaked spec sheets don't make it look promising.

The combination of a narrow drive card and a 2.5" drive sounds interesting. I don't know about a hybrid drive, I've not seen a review that said it was worth it, or that it even increased performance - but it's been a bit since I looked at them last.
post #80 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Maybe they should keep the 17" as the only Pro model and "really" make it Pro with all the bells and whistles.

 

I have the 15" MBP and I like having the optical drive, the ethernet plug, and the assorted I/O capabilities, but I rarely use them. I do however think a powerful CPU/GPU is important for graphics work when on the road. Ideally that sort of work is done on a desktop machine but occasionally I have to whip something together while on the road. Smoothly running Adobe CS is a must for me. Other than that, a notebook is a secondary device for me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

 

This won't work because only a small percentage of Pro users want the 17" laptops.  

 

It makes more sense to do what they are actually doing here which is get rid of the part of the Pro line that doesn't sell as well, and focus on keeping around the 13" and 15" until such time as people are moving to the new line in larger numbers. 

 

I'm not privy to 17" MBP sales figures of course, but I saw one in a coffee shop the other day and thought it would make a fine day tripper for times I need to do real work around the area and don't have access to a bigger monitor (I hate using Photoshop on a small screen compared to one at least 20").  And the best way to juice up its appeal a bit - if kept around - would be, among other things, to put it on a diet and ditch the ODD in the process so that the 17 weighs no more than today's 15 incher - with real CPU and video processing power.  Even if you can't really use it in a coach airplane seat.  But I'm not predicting such a model - odds seem maybe 30-70 from the tea leaves on sites like this one.

****************

 

Switching up topics, here's how much the ODD is now superannuated:  Need to pull some files physically?  Plug in a 32 GB flash drive.  Need to share some big files and not leave a device with some cost with a friend, relative or colleague?  Put 'em Drop Box, SugarSync, etc. (or iCloud?) and send download links - or use a service like YouSendIt.  No shiny coaster required, files shared.

 

And if they need to burn a CD for their old stereo or a DVD for their VCR's, the recipients probably already have ODD's.  

 

All of these will deliver the content to those who previously got it on ODD's - a technology whose time has simply passed except for legacy uses.  And at worst, you can pick up a light-weight external ODD for less than forty bucks. 

 

(Which is why I'll be surprised to see any 2012 Macs - a year Tim Cook has promised a remaking of Apple's entire product line in - coming with one.  At least in notebooks.)

 

****************

 

Also, I question the whole line-up presented here. First, no slimming of the MBP's? Really?  

And second, "Retina" displays give you more sharpness with pixel doubling - but not more real estate (as I understand it at least) - and it's hard for me to see a 15" pro which won't really be any more "canvas" than 1440 x 900 ("reitinized" to 2880 x 1800) - and therefore not (¿)1080p capable (?) like many 15" Win machines which will display 1920 x 1280 of today's pixels - whatever their screen "quality," tho' I admit the math around the new gen of "resolutions" and "doubling" and "independence" still confuses me a bit.   


Edited by bigpics - 6/8/12 at 8:57pm

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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