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Apple quietly updates Mac Pro with Intel Xeon CPU [u] - Page 4

post #121 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.

Why would it be permanent?

post #122 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.

Dear Tallest Skill, I think you are overly negative here. Although I would have appreciated a Mac Pro update beyond a small speed bump and price cut, I am not going to think apple might abandon the Pro's for a second (I need to update myself). Look at what they have done to the portable line! There you will find actually that they have abandoned the entry level models. And the retina MacBook Pro is really a neat machine.

My belive is, that apple was forced to put the new Mac Pro on hold, either because Intel wasn't ready to deliver the new chips in time, or that apple is still not satisfied with the new design.

After beeing an apple user for such a long time you ought to know this.

So keep cool and see what the future brings. Once it is out, I am expecting apples new Mac Pro will just blow our minds, like the new MacBook Pro did.
Edited by Rabbit_Coach - 6/11/12 at 11:10pm
post #123 of 153

$@#% #@$! @#$% and #@$% with @#$# on the @#$% mother board.  Therefor I think the new #@$%en MacPro is #@$%ing wrong in its minimal upgrade as it @#%$ing sits.

 

WOW!!!

An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #124 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe Luby View Post

Well you must feel pretty stupid Neil.  26 to go

Yes, he would feel much better now if his new employee had been sitting around for 2 month doing nothing.

26 others with jello instead of a brain?

 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

E5645 Westmere

W3565 Bloomfield
 

So we got rid of the Nehalem based low end processor and kept processors from the Westmere and Bloomfield lines.

E5645 = Gulftown = Westmere 32nm

W3565 = Bloomfield = Nehalem 45nm

 

No we didn't get rid of Nehalem from 2009.


Edited by smalM - 6/12/12 at 2:38am
post #125 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

As a pricing illustration, I bought a quad 3.2/1TB/3GB Mac Pro two months ago for $2928. Today (with 6GB) that costs $2499. Oh, and before 27 geniuses on AI post about how  stupid I must be feeling—wrong. I bought a new Mac Pro workstation for a new employee exactly when we needed it.

Bottom line is it's a slight speed bump and moderate price reduction, but tells us nothing about the future of the Mac Pro line.

Excellent decision; you bought what you needed at the time. Tech will always advance, always get cheaper, or better put, get more bang for your buck. And that is what has happened with this update. You now can get a 6 core 3.33 for 3k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by visionseekr View Post

At least we can still get a RAID card through the store.

You don't want a(n Apple) RAID card. Trust me, you don't. Read the support pages, nothing but trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulvee View Post

agree.

I also don't use Thunderbolt. who does at this point?

graphics cards I always replace, anyway, and it sounds like there are ones out there.

at the least, this will be supported by the OS for a while, so perhaps there is a sliver of hope. they could have end-of-lifed it more easily than to have done this.

we shall see. at least you can still buy a new Mac that you can slap a Kona or other PCIe card into. that counts for something.

Indeed, what are people planning to use that TB for in a MP? One poster wants it for music. 'kay, but can't that be done with an internal card?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

They are. Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 came out in March. That's what's next for the Mac Pro. Ivy Bridge Xeons come out late next year, and they incorporate USB 3 on the chipset (don't expect Apple to that before then). 

I feel like it is far more embarrassing and a discredit to the product line to have done this "update" than to have just outright discontinued.

But if they didn't make this minor upgrade 'everyone will have jumped ship as Apple lost interest in the MP' or so people write…

I think it's better that they released a bumped up version just to let everyone know they haven't lost interest.

(*) from Wiki: "Apple, Inc. announced laptops with USB 3.0 ports on June 11, 2012, nearly four years after USB 3.0 was finalized. Because Apple computers use only Intel processors and "bridge" chipsets, Intel's lack of integrated support for USB 3.0 may have proved to be a primary reason why the company didn't add support sooner."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

I'm almost positive that my next machine won't be an Apple unless they make a mini-tower or a super powerful Mac Mini in the next year.

Get a MP. A PowerMini is simply not in the cards, if history tells us anything
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post #126 of 153

Oh the pain of it all.  Been waiting for a new Mac Pro with NEW technology for over a year now.  We ALL cried for an update and look at what they gave us. 

Now I'll have to look elsewhere for my PRO hardware as I'm not going to buy ancient tech and their new "consumer" BS won't work for me :-(

The Mac Pro is dead -- long live the Mac Pro.

post #127 of 153

BTW -- how many of you have left a message on Apple's Product feedback about your disappointment?

post #128 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Is USB 3  or TB even compatible with Nehalem and Westmere?

I'm pretty sure USB 3 can be done with an added third party host chip. I thought it was the same way with TB. I can understand Apple not using them in their other machines, for space and possibly thermal reasons, but on a Mac Pro, I don't think those reasons are a problem.
post #129 of 153

People are appleblind me thinks! how does bringing out a middle of the road (albiet excellent but unsupported display) Macbkpro with only a 650 nvidea card rate as a pro machine, same mentality goes for the new pro, they will be dropping the pro monica one day I'm sure.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post 
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.

 

Apple have become too big for their boots, the pro market expects innovation to stay ahead of the competition, she should be pandering to our big bucks and specialised market leading productivity skills, but once the trust has gone... the relationship ends.

 

ah! but wait and see....! such is a volatile market that waxes and wanes, in the meantime new PC companies are emerging with youthful competitive vigour in mind, Apple has wasted its hunny-moon time on sweets for the masses and petty public bickering with neighbours when it could so easily have afforded real top end forward looking innovation and stole the limelight,  another missed oppertunity, another lost soul overboard.

 

There is one possibility of repreive... like they did with FCP, get back into the developement room and burn the midnight oil to come up with a corker of a new pro monicurred product to satisfy the mass semi pro market, renderrers can still have their twin tractorred earth mover aswell.

 

Wheres the new sleek enovation MacProX workstation ?...   The missing link. not even any Chinese whispers.


Edited by AllanMc - 6/12/12 at 5:48am
post #130 of 153

At least the completely wrong part of the article was updated...but still a lousy article, no mention that it's the exact same machine as the 2010 version (and 2009 for that matter), with no TB, no USB3 and no SATA III.

post #131 of 153

You know...

 

...I'm surprised how 'calmly' Dave took it.

 

Lemon Bon Bon. :/

 

PS.  As for the desktops.  A 'cosmic joke.'

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #132 of 153

Retina iMac late 2012/ 2013 will be the pro Mac desktop. Apple is streamlining to MacBook Air, Retina MBP and Retina iMac. All other lines are perhaps considered "legacy" by Apple and will be maintained for a few years but don't expect major kickassery in the previous-gen Macs. No offense to pros, I know the Mac Pro has seen you through good and bad times for years. 

 

But we all know Apple has a more specific (or more general, depending on how one sees it) "pro" market in mind.

post #133 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

You know...

 

...I'm surprised how 'calmly' Dave took it.

 

Lemon Bon Bon. :/

 

PS.  As for the desktops.  A 'cosmic joke.'

 

The writing is on the wall. MacBook Air, Retina MacBook Pro and Retina iMac. As for any other Mac, its time has come. For better or worse.

post #134 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrickley View Post

Do yourself a favor and get a fast SSD from OWC (don't buy the 6G model as the Mac Pro can only do 3G.  Put your apps and OS on the SSD, that will speed things up.  Partition the SSD and leave enough working space for your current project files and loading those multiple GB files will go many times faster.  

 

Get two SSDs and set them up in a RAID 0 array.  That will exceed 3G speeds.  The 6G models are still faster even if you're attaching them to SATA 2, it's not like they're always operating at a full 6G.  Just get a couple of Sandforce SF-2281 SSDs, RAID them, and stand back.  The speed will blow you away. 

post #135 of 153

No need to freak over this update, since it's not really an update.  All Apple did is fill the CPU bins at the factory with slightly faster CPUs of the same model.  The change didn't even require a firmware update:  you can drop any of the processors offered in the "update" into a Westemere Mac Pro and have exactly the same computer as the "new" ones.  Actually, you can do the same with a Nehalem Mac Pro as long as you flash it with macpro5,1 firmware.  

 

I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update.  My guess?  The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.  

post #136 of 153

And for all the bleating on here about TB and USB 3.0...seriously?  

 

USB 3.0:  Buy a PCI card!  It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro just for a USB 3 port.

 

Thunderbolt?  On a Pro machine?  If you want to add an external RAID to a Mac Pro, an SAS RAID PCI card will be faster than any existing Thunderbolt option.  The only reason it could be needed on a Mac Pro would be for use with an Apple Display, but if you're a pro, you probably want something better anyways.  

 

Video card?  Apple already added support to Lion for all Nvidia cards.  Just drop one in and rock out.  The boot screen won't work, but that's not such a big deal.  

 

If the current Mac Pro isn't fast enough for you, then jump to Windows.  Seriously, do it.  You'll find that you're work isn't any faster or better, because Windows workstations are limited by the same Xeon availability as the Mac Pro.  Then when the Mac Pro replacement is announced, you'll be ready to blow another $8000 on a Mac Pro rig to replace your Windows turdstation.  

post #137 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update.  My guess?  The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.  

 

Nothing Apple does has anything to do with the economy.

post #138 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

And for all the bleating on here about TB and USB 3.0...seriously?  

USB 3.0:  Buy a PCI card!  It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro just for a USB 3 port.

Thunderbolt?  On a Pro machine?  If you want to add an external RAID to a Mac Pro, an SAS RAID PCI card will be faster than any existing Thunderbolt option.  The only reason it could be needed on a Mac Pro would be for use with an Apple Display, but if you're a pro, you probably want something better anyways.  

Video card?  Apple already added support to Lion for all Nvidia cards.  Just drop one in and rock out.  The boot screen won't work, but that's not such a big deal.  

If the current Mac Pro isn't fast enough for you, then jump to Windows.  Seriously, do it.  You'll find that you're work isn't any faster or better, because Windows workstations are limited by the same Xeon availability as the Mac Pro.  Then when the Mac Pro replacement is announced, you'll be ready to blow another $8000 on a Mac Pro rig to replace your Windows turdstation.  

Sorry, you're working way too hard to polish a turd of an update. If one buys a brand-new, newly updated machine, it stands to reason that it should have the latest architectural updates.

One shouldn't need to use a precious slot for connections that should be built-in by now. Nobody is going to replace a machine for USB jacks, but it's something that has no excuse for being missing on a freshly-rev'ed high end machine.

Also, there is a lot more to Thunderbolt than RAID, take a look at AJA or Blackmagic designs for some of those products. Extra ports on the desktop can be very useful. Not all pros need special cinema grade displays, I think the Thunderbolt display serves most pros pretty well.

The boot screen is pretty important, that's how you do diagnostics and multiboot. I wonder if you're just being a poe here. Why Apple couldn't offer an updated board in the package is quite baffling in light of this alleged support.

It's not helpful to suggest they buy a Windows machine, that's not the point here anyway.
Edited by JeffDM - 6/12/12 at 10:02am
post #139 of 153

The "new" processors were available more than 2 years ago. Apple could have provided this update over a year ago.

 

Apple doesn't buy processors at single-quantity retail prices, so it used to be the Mac Pro was a good deal compared to rolling your own. But not now.

post #140 of 153

It is because the Apple RAID card was a piece of crap, and didn't work properly. Just like Xserve and Final Cut server. "We can't make it work so we will abandon it"..

 

Apple is making a killing on these machines. What a waste of 3K.. These processors are old and outdated. 

post #141 of 153

Hey Apple must be listening to us .....  as of 4:15pm EST today June 12 they have taken the 'New' badge off the MacPro in the online stores! ( US & CDN that is)

post #142 of 153

Apple has removed the "new" label from the Mac Pro image on the online store splash page.

 

EDIT: Pipped by Redison!

post #143 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrickley View Post

Do yourself a favor and get a fast SSD from OWC (don't buy the 6G model as the Mac Pro can only do 3G.  Put your apps and OS on the SSD, that will speed things up.

Or better yet, buy SSD PCIe cards, the bigger the better. Get 1200MB/s. yes, capital B there. See review here.
[=http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120530_1-OWC-Mercury-Accelsior-960GB.html][/]
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post #144 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by redison View Post

Hey Apple must be listening to us .....  as of 4:15pm EST today June 12 they have taken the 'New' badge off the MacPro in the online stores! ( US & CDN that is)

Makes sense, they should have a different label for minor updates, price drops or new options, even a symbol like a star or something so it doesn't need translated into different languages.
post #145 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrickley View Post

Good grief!  The MacPro is still, two years later, faster than most PC's.  In order to get any better you have to spend a heck of a lot of money on PC Workstation class hardware.  Only a couple of Ivy Bridge Xeons are even out yet.  Most people who use Mac Pro's can't even push them hard enough to max out their capabilities.  Quit the attitude!

 

I have a Mac Pro (last produced model), it cost me $8k and I didn't even max it out on options.  They are not selling a lot of these machines.  Instead of fretting over this machine, I am building a rackmount cloud server instead.  Future computers will be laptops and anything that needs real power will be on the cloud server.  I just remote connect to the private cloud and kick off my rendering jobs there.  It's faster that way anyway!

Glad someone understands.

post #146 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Nothing Apple does has anything to do with the economy.

This may be your dumbest post yet.  

 

How much did you pay to become moderator?  Or did you get that position by winning an Apple Kool-Aid drinking contest?

post #147 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post
This may be your dumbest post yet.  

 

Would you care to offer another explanation for why they were able to post record revenue and profit every quarter during the recession without price reductions?

post #148 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Sorry, you're working way too hard to polish a turd of an update. If one buys a brand-new, newly updated machine, it stands to reason that it should have the latest architectural updates.
One shouldn't need to use a precious slot for connections that should be built-in by now. Nobody is going to replace a machine for USB jacks, but it's something that has no excuse for being missing on a freshly-rev'ed high end machine.
Also, there is a lot more to Thunderbolt than RAID, take a look at AJA or Blackmagic designs for some of those products. Extra ports on the desktop can be very useful. Not all pros need special cinema grade displays, I think the Thunderbolt display serves most pros pretty well.
The boot screen is pretty important, that's how you do diagnostics and multiboot. I wonder if you're just being a poe here. Why Apple couldn't offer an updated board in the package is quite baffling in light of this alleged support.
It's not helpful to suggest they buy a Windows machine, that's not the point here anyway.

You're probably right, I was trying to polish a turd :)  I didn't mean to say that the update was anything but pathetic, only that it's not worth getting all that upset over.  Any late model Mac Pro is already at the top when it comes to workstations - yes there are a few Westmere CPU options from Intel that are faster than the ones Apple installs in the Mac Pro, but the difference in speed would barely be noticable.  I really don't believe anyone using a Mac Pro would benefit from a new model using Intel's available Xeons to an extent that warrants all the freaking out in this thread.  Yeah, this update sucked, and yes, the Mac Pro is long in the tooth, but the high end 12 core Mac Pro, and even the 6 core Mac Pro, are both kickass workstations.  And anyone with a Mac Pro built from 2009 on has the option to buy a faster Xeon and drop it in for maximum performance, at a fraction of the cost of a new Mac Pro.  I've got a 6 core 3.5 GHz Mac Pro (24GB RAM, 6870 Radeon, 256 GB Vertex 3 SSD, 6 TB HDD RAID) sitting on my desk right now, with less money in it than a new low-end Mac Pro.  Only a complete overhaul of the Mac Pro line would compell me to give up this beast.  I'll put it up to the Pepsie challenge with a Windows Xeon workstation any day.

 

All this talk of switching to windows?  Give me a break.  An extra 0.3 GHz on the Windows machine won't make your work any better.  Until Intel releases significantly faster Xeons (not vaporware), wanting a new Mac Pro is about d!ck waving.

post #149 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg View Post

You're probably right, I was trying to polish a turd 1smile.gif  I didn't mean to say that the update was anything but pathetic, only that it's not worth getting all that upset over.  Any late model Mac Pro is already at the top when it comes to workstations - yes there are a few Westmere CPU options from Intel that are faster than the ones Apple installs in the Mac Pro, but the difference in speed would barely be noticable.  I really don't believe anyone using a Mac Pro would benefit from a new model using Intel's available Xeons to an extent that warrants all the freaking out in this thread.  Yeah, this update sucked, and yes, the Mac Pro is long in the tooth, but the high end 12 core Mac Pro, and even the 6 core Mac Pro, are both kickass workstations.  And anyone with a Mac Pro built from 2009 on has the option to buy a faster Xeon and drop it in for maximum performance, at a fraction of the cost of a new Mac Pro.  I've got a 6 core 3.5 GHz Mac Pro (24GB RAM, 6870 Radeon, 256 GB Vertex 3 SSD, 6 TB HDD RAID) sitting on my desk right now, with less money in it than a new low-end Mac Pro.  Only a complete overhaul of the Mac Pro line would compell me to give up this beast.  I'll put it up to the Pepsie challenge with a Windows Xeon workstation any day.

All this talk of switching to windows?  Give me a break.  An extra 0.3 GHz on the Windows machine won't make your work any better.  Until Intel releases significantly faster Xeons (not vaporware), wanting a new Mac Pro is about d!ck waving.

With your Mac Pro, then I agree in your case, there's very little benefit for you to upgrade. But not everyone is in that position. If I was looking to upgrade my original MP, then there could be quite a lot. Or at least, I think there should have been a lot more to look forward to by now. That's part of my point. I don't update often (my Macs are 2006 and 2007 era), and I don't think it's reasonable to upgrade on every update, but if I do need to upgrade, I'd like it to be a reasonably up to date machine.
Edited by JeffDM - 6/12/12 at 8:27pm
post #150 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Would you care to offer another explanation for why they were able to post record revenue and profit every quarter during the recession without price reductions?

iGadgets and laptops drive Apple's profits now, not Mac Pros and iMacs.  Why wouldn't Apple factor economic trends into the timing of revisions of slower selling products?  It would be pretty stupid if they didn't.  

post #151 of 153

Have been having a good read of your comments guys, but no amount of rant is going to do any better at this point in time as Intel quite simply hasn't bought out an Ivy bridge Zeon yet and that is what is holding everything up at the moment also for the PC world too.

 

Mr Cook has said Apple is going to cook up a newly designed macpro for next year with and when these new chips are set to come out, so great news Apple Pro is not dead and this meadiocre update is merly treading water.

 

I have been looking at the new Macbkpro and boy am I impressed, no lame developement there, they got rid of the yester-year parts and supercharged the whole design with a cracking display that is very mobile pro capable and I expect when Mountain lion hits the streets any questionable issues will be resolved therein, if this is the standard set then waiting for and speculating on a NEW MacPro is going to be interesting over the coming months.

 

Although top end pro renderrers do need all the speed of twin Zeon processing in the studio it does put the Macpro out of reach costwise for I'd expect just as many other semipro and home studio potential buyers again who would I'm sure jump at the chance of a single 6core Ivybridge MacProX and full size graphics cards that could come along alot sooner than the looong wait for the next gen Zeons, 

the grapevine speculates that Intel are to pack in a lot more cores on the Ivybridge processor in future... 8...16...24?


Edited by AllanMc - 6/15/12 at 12:30pm
post #152 of 153

After getting over my huge disappointment with the "new" Mac Pro offerings.  I am considering buying either one of the 2 x 2.4 6-core models or TWO of the 1 x 3.3 6-core server models using Xgrid to meet my current needs.  I plan on using it to process huge amounts of bioinformatic data and need something before 2013.  Any suggestions?  Pricing is about the same.

post #153 of 153
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