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Apple officially axes 17-inch MacBook Pro from notebook lineup - Page 4

post #121 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

There is a market of people who want large screen machines. I think Apple pulled out of this market too soon.

There were some numbers put out last year:

http://investorplace.com/2012/04/monday-apple-rumors-end-of-the-17-inch-macbook-pro/

"Kuo said sales of the 17-inch MacBook Pro amounted to about 50,000 units during the first quarter of 2012, compared to 1.5 million of the 13-inch models and 500,000 for the 15-inch models. Kuo also estimated first-quarter MacBook Air sales at 1.1 million units"

These are an analyst's estimates so they won't be exact but even with PC manufacturers, 15" models models outsell 17" by at least 5:1. Apple's ratio is worse because the 17" was $300 higher than the 15" and the spec was the same so you were effectively paying $300 for the extra 2".

When the Retina models arrived the 17" would need a resolution that integrated graphics couldn't cope with and the price would have been way too high.

At the next refresh, it would be good if the prices dropped to the point that the entry Retina 15" hits $1799. If that happens, it could leave a space at the $2799 mark. The IGPs can run that resolution of display now. If they choose to fill that gap, there's not much spec-wise to fill the space. That model already has 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD.

If they choose to do something like put in 1TB SSD and maintain the price point, that would be a clearer indication that they don't want to go back to 17". If it is selling as low as 50,000 per quarter and many of those people migrated to 15" anyway, it makes more sense to stick with 15" because they don't have to source another set of display panels and have a different chassis just for a very small amount of buyers.
post #122 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Okay. We won't get you started on your inability to see quality when it's presented to you.


Ha ha.

post #123 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameraman View Post

Ha ha.

No humor intended. Enjoy living in the past and repeating tired, broken, useless arguments.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #124 of 154
Maybe next year Apple will introduce a 4K 17" MacBook Über Pro.
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post #125 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameraman View Post

As a cameraman editor it really is disappointing that I can no longer buy a 17" Macbook Pro as the larger screen really is a must for video editing in the field... Don't even get me started on FCPX!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Okay. We won't get you started on your inability to see quality when it's presented to you.

 

Cameraman is a new member and he made a comment in an article/thread that has been inactive for over a year. He expressed his feelings about the tools of his trade, both HW & SW, that, obviously, are very useful to him for his profession. His profession has probably made him quite proficient in using Final Cut Pro and while he may be opposed to change, FCPX was a radically new but incomplete replacement of, at the time, a much more powerful (albeit aging) application. At the time, if you recall, FCPX was greatly panned by video pros for being embarrassingly incomplete. With him being in the business, I would value his opinion a little more than yours.

 

I've owned my printing company for 25 years and Apple SW & HW have been an integral part of my company's success. As much as I love Apple, I too think that suddenly discontinuing the 17" MBP, without warning, was a crappy move. 200K unit sales per year may not be a lot, but, anyway you slice it, it's still a half billion in sales based on ASP. Being a business owner, I understand that tough, unpopular decisions have to be made, but not all decisions need to be based on needing 40%+ margins. When my current 17" MBP dies, it's going to make my portable business life a lot more difficult when I have to downsize to a 15" screen. Another brand is NOT an option because it's all about the OS and SW for me.

 

Marvin was nice (and mature) enough to give statistics and, therefore, justification for Apple's decision. This is the kind of response people come to AI for. You, on the other hand, simply pontificated by making a comment like it's the last and final word. I hope you don't wonder why most of your comments are not quoted, answered or debated. You belittle members and their comments right from the start and your comments and attitude come across like Apple (and you) can NEVER do wrong. One can argue that ~500,000 17" MBP users (50K/quarter X a 2.5 year upgrade cycle) are being forced to downsize to a 15" MBP or make another brand choice. These 500,000 pro/power users were a large part of the core consumers that stuck by Apple during the dark days. Apple shouldn't have abandoned them, and their choice machine, without warning or explanation, IMO.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #126 of 154

I am running 1920 x 1200 on my 15" retina MacBook Pro. It can be small at times, but that's what the zoom function is for. Most times, it's just fine.

 

I had a 17" before this machine. The size difference makes the retina the clear winner. And the retina display.

 

The thing is, once you go retina, you can't go back. I was using a loaner MBP with standard res for a week and I was just amazed that I used do be fine with that pixelated mess they call display. The text is so fuzzy and pixely its really hard to read, and you have to basically constantly interpolate mentally to make up for it. I ended up doing most of my reading on my iPad 3 or iPhone. It was that bad.

 

A 17" retina machine is not currently possible thanks to mobile graphics cards. It took Apple lots of hacking with customized drivers and two updates of Mountain Lion to fix all the performance issues for the 15" retina (running at 1920 didn't help of course). Graphics cards were not designed to push 5MP. 17" with way more pixels would be even worse. Clearly this is going to change now that retina is already out - the next or next-next gen gfx cards should be able to handle it with ease. But right now, it's stretching the hardware to the max.

 

I should add that the 15" retina display is also apparently stretching what can be done currently in manufacturing. I am on my 2nd screen and about to exchange it for the 3rd for stuck pixels. These develop over time on an initially perfect display. A friend has had his screen exchanged 10 times already. I sure hope Apple has some guarantees from manufacturing but I also think they'll take some losses on that on their own.

 

I think once the retina becomes possible in 17", Apple will do a new one. A small profit and the idea of having a flagship do-it-all mobile workstation should be reason enough. Loved my 17".


Edited by orthorim - 7/25/13 at 8:43am
post #127 of 154

One theory is that Apple could source off-the-shelf 17" LCD displays (Retina) from their suppliers but when technology evolves to the point where this is standard they could well roll-out the 17" again - see here: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/why-apple-dumped-the-17-inch-macbook-pro/20761

post #128 of 154
I recently saw a smartly dressed woman using a 17" Macbook on the train. I had completely forgotten just how big that thing was. Outside of a few niche reasons why would you need to carry around such a large laptop, why isn't an external monitor enough. I'm just asking here, I really don't know, I've always believed a notebook should be as small and light as possible for the task at hand. Task at hand being the keyword, do video editors travel to offsite locations enough to warrant such a large display, or printing, photo professionals.
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post #129 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I recently saw a smartly dressed woman using a 17" Macbook on the train. I had completely forgotten just how big that thing was. Outside of a few niche reasons why would you need to carry around such a large laptop, why isn't an external monitor enough.

Real work, anywhere.  True, these days my daily carry is an 11" model, and I do use a second monitor at the office.  But the 17" MPB let me do more serious work than I can cram into a small screen, no matter where I was.  If the 17" model was still being made I might be among the few who would opt for it.

post #130 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I recently saw a smartly dressed woman using a 17" Macbook on the train. I had completely forgotten just how big that thing was. Outside of a few niche reasons why would you need to carry around such a large laptop, why isn't an external monitor enough. I'm just asking here, I really don't know, I've always believed a notebook should be as small and light as possible for the task at hand. Task at hand being the keyword, do video editors travel to offsite locations enough to warrant such a large display, or printing, photo professionals.

When the 15" and 17" are side-by-side, the 17" doesn't look that much bigger:



The laptop dimensions are:
13" = 12.8" x 8.9"
15" = 14.4" x 9.8"
17" = 15.4" x 10.4"

so there's a bigger change in laptop dimensions between the 13" and 15" than 15" and 17":



I'd say the biggest reason for the 17" at one point was resolution. The 15" used to top out at 1440x900 and the cMBP still does without the hi-res upgrade. The 17" went up to 1920x1200. The rMBP goes up to 1920x1200 now though:

http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/2078#5

so you get the same desktop space. I doubt a Retina 17" would offer higher than 1920x1200 because the UI would get too small. It's just over 10% more in each dimension. It works for the 13" as it tops out at 1680x1050 and moves to 1920x1200 on the 15". The next standard resolution would be 2048x1280 (2K), which doesn't offer much over 1920x1200.

For people who only use an internal display productively, it does help for it to be physically bigger but for productive use, I personally don't like anything under 20". I even find Apple's 20.5" iMac too small and I'd prefer if they went to 22-24".
post #131 of 154
Yea, now compare it next a 11" Air.1tongue.gif
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post #132 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solstice View Post

I just can’t think of any legitimate excuse why the heck they would discontinue 17" MPBs.

Lack of sales.
 

 

Perhaps, but most firms appreciate that if you don't offer customers what they want (within reason) they will eventually go elsewhere.

post #133 of 154

It is ridiculous for Apple to discontinue the 17" MacBook Pro! Nobody would expect the same volume from a 17" model,that you get from 11",13",and 15" Models. This is/was a Halo/Aspirational/Flagship machine! Why is it that other companies offer 17" Laptops,still? Some people,Professionals especially,need Screen-Estate,and there is no substitute for it. This type of device is like the largest TV offered in the lineup,or your Corvette,Presidential Rolex,7-series BMW,Mercedes-Benz S-Class,Lexus LS460,Top-of-the-line Harley! You want to let the public and your Customers know what you are capable of,and as an Engineering prowess Showhorse. What is with the stupid concern over how much money it makes? They charged more for it than the other models,and were making it,when they only had a fraction of the profits that they have enjoyed in the last 6 or 7 years! They're making more money than damn near anyone else on earth,so why is it so important to make overwhelming profits on everything they touch? Desktop computers have been in decline lately,but that doesn't mean that you should stop making them altogether. Apple also has an obligation to support the Customers that stuck with them during their shaky days,Mac Pro AND 17" MACBOOK PRO CUSTOMERS! I hope that one day soon,they will restore the 17" macBook Pro,I'm buying another one to put up,so that when my current one dies,I'll still have one to use! Apple should be ashamed of itself.

post #134 of 154

I stream Music,download Software,but I also play CD's and DVD's!  I still like Firewire and eSata,not only USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. I'm not getting rid of my Firewire and eSata-capable drives! I may buy a Drive that is USB 3.0/2.0-capable,along with USB/Thunderbolt drives,in the future. However,I am not gonna be forced to throw away my recent,great performing peripherals and devices.

post #135 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacIke View Post

It is What is with the stupid concern over how much money it makes?

How DARE Apple try to run a business!
Quote:
They're making more money than damn near anyone else on earth,so why is it so important to make overwhelming profits on everything they touch?

How DARE Apple try to… you get it.
Quote:
Desktop computers have been in decline lately,but that doesn't mean that you should stop making them altogether.

Isn't the 17" MacBook Pro supposed to be a laptop? Or did you users never actually take it anywhere?
Quote:
Mac Pro

They made a new one. It has a future.
Quote:
Apple should be ashamed of itself.

Someone should, at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacIke View Post

…but I also play CD's and DVD's!

And you didn't notice 'round about 2008 that you should think about pulling that back?
Quote:
I still like Firewire and eSata,not only USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt. I'm not getting rid of my Firewire and eSata-capable drives!

No one's asking you to. Adapters exist.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #136 of 154

It doesn't mean that Apple is not "running a Business",just because some models don't sell in as gigantic numbers as others. That's the same type of message that Mac Pro users were telling Apple. Yes,I do take me 17" MBP with me,5.6 lbs. isn't heavy or awkward to me. I mentioned that I stream Music,download Apps,and all the rest,but I still watch AND BUY CD's and DVD's,and I why should  have to scale back,unless I want to? That's an individual choice. Again,High-end products are expected to be volume leaders,and they still do have a place in the lineup. Did you even hear or read the comments about Halo Products or aspirational products? Just because you're perfectly happy with a 13" or 15" MBP,doesnt dismiss other users desire or need for a bigger Laptop. Make your choice,and allow others to make theirs. Some people want V-8's,some want V-6's,and some are perfectly fine with 4-cylinders. Are they ignorant,stupid,or behind-the-times,because they aren't happy with YOUR CHOICES? I spend my money the way I prefer,and don't have any criticism for your choices at all! Do the same for me. Are you saying that all of the manufacturers that did,and still make 17" models are Idiots for making them?  Apple has made decisions in the past that weren't well thought-out,and had to change them;this may well be one of them.

post #137 of 154

Just like with the unnecessarily thin imac,I don't want a bunch of adapters or dongles hanging of my MBP or imac,destroying the very esthetics that made me want them in the first place. The 17" model had an express card slot,which serves more purposes than an adapter.When Apple take the Optical drives out of their machines,or eliminates FireWire and e-SATA,they FORCE us to buy adapters,used dongles,or brick our equipment. Daisy chaining peripherals is not practical for some users,and what if your third or fourth peripheral in the chain,needs to be disconnected? We know that technology is not going to stay the same,but function following form,is a mistake in many users eyes. Some people will just accept whatever is presented to them. Apple was pushed to bring back their small Laptops,they were pushed to put Apps on their iphones,they were pushed to put Matte screens on their High-end Portables,they were pushed to update the Mac Pro,obviously all of their original moves weren't always the best decisions! Apple sells about 90% of the portable that cost over $1,000,it seems that there is a great business out here,that doesn't always require big market share. Obviously I meant to say,that high-end products,AREN'T MEANT TO BE MARKET LEADERS AS FAR AS VOLUME,but there is definitely still a business case for them,whether Apple abandons the market for good or not. Different strokes,for different Folks. We realize that Apple is not gonna try to be everything to everybody. It is within their power and Grasp,to support the Mac Pro users who want to be able to easily and cheaply replace or upgrade their Memory/hard Drives/Graphic Cards,and to provide Professional or Workstation-level Screen Real-Estate for their Portable Customers. 

post #138 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacIke View Post

It doesn't mean that Apple is not "running a Business",just because some models don't sell in as gigantic numbers as others.

Please read the post.
Quote:
…why should  have to scale back,unless I want to?

Then don't. But you don't get to whine that your hardware is getting old.
Quote:
…High-end products are expected to be volume leaders…

I assume you mean "aren't", except that's the opposite of every other product category Apple makes.
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Did you even hear or read the comments about Halo Products or aspirational products?

Sure. The Mac Pro and 17" MacBook Pro weren't that.
Quote:
Make your choice,and allow others to make theirs.

So go buy a 17" laptop from someone who isn't Apple and just quit complaining. You seem to know what you want, Apple doesn't make it, therefore you can't buy from Apple.
Quote:
Are you saying that all of the manufacturers that did,and still make 17" models are Idiots for making them?

How's that a relevant question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacIke View Post

Just like with the unnecessarily thin imac

Except it isn't.
Quote:
I don't want a bunch of adapters or dongles hanging of my MBP or iMac,destroying the very esthetics that made me want them in the first place.

You have external hard drives in the first place. Are you even listening to yourself?
Quote:
The 17" model had an express card slot,which serves more purposes than an adapter.

… NOT AT THE SAME TIME. Which means you still have to cart around ExpressCard/34 cards. Nice try.
Quote:
When Apple take the Optical drives out of their machines,or eliminates FireWire and e-SATA,they FORCE us to buy adapters,used dongles,or brick our equipment.

There's also this thing called "keep using your old stuff".
Quote:
Daisy chaining peripherals is not practical for some users,and what if your third or fourth peripheral in the chain,needs to be disconnected?

Then take five seconds out of your busy schedule and plan how to connect said peripherals better. My stars: this is YOUR problem.
Quote:
Apple was pushed to bring back their small Laptops

They never got rid of them.
Quote:
they were pushed to put Matte screens on their High-end Portables

That's funny.
Quote:
they were pushed to update the Mac Pro

No, not really. They've been planning this for a while.
Quote:
…it seems that there is a great business out here…

You don't make them enough money to be viable. End of discussion.
Quote:
…high-end products,AREN'T MEANT TO BE MARKET LEADERS AS FAR AS VOLUME

Wonder why every other high-end product from Apple is, then.
Quote:
Different strokes,for different Folks.

You keep using a bunch of idioms and unsubstantiated phrases to try to make people believe that absolutely every single use case deserves its own product. You're fundamentally wrong. As long as you don't understand that, you'll never understand why Apple doesn't have any reason to make said products.
Quote:
We realize that Apple is not gonna try to be everything to everybody.

That's funny, because everything you've said points to thinking the opposite, as I stated above.
Quote:
to support the Mac Pro users who want to be able to easily and cheaply replace or upgrade their Memory/hard Drives/Graphic Cards,and to provide Professional or Workstation-level Screen Real-Estate for their Portable Customers. 

Okay. Except they're not doing that at all.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #139 of 154

In my original post,I said that I was buying another 17" MBP and storing it until I need it,because the smaller ones don't serve my needs well.  Did you read that? Maybe you don't understand that many Pros want internal storage and flexibility,and want Screen Real-Estate on our portables. I had the 14" Powerbook,and previous 15" MBP's before,and I prefer the 17" model. I don't have to buy a 17" model from another company,and I'm not whining. I'm expressing what I like and prefer,and I'm not alone. IBM abandoned the Consumer computer market a few years back,and look what Lenovo has done with it.Supposedly Apple previously chose Form following function,now it seems that it's the exact opposite,such as making the iMac thinner,and getting rid of the optical drive and Ethernet. The Computer world is big enough,and flexible enough for more than one type of Consumer to be taken care of,even Apple. Apple has gone almost entirely toward the Consumer,and has Shitted on their Pro and Pro-Sumer customers!  They admitted it during the last keynote,when Phil Schiler said,"Can't innovate,my Ass".

post #140 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacIke View Post

I'm expressing what I like and prefer,and I'm not alone.

But you're alone enough not to matter. Would you feel better if I used "we" instead of "you"? I preferred the 17", myself. But I saw that the desktop is the future of computing and the tablet (in sizes from 10" to 15") is the future of mobile. I got over it.
Quote:
IBM abandoned the Consumer computer market a few years back,and look what Lenovo has done with it.

Run it straight into the ground. lol.gif
Quote:
Supposedly Apple previously chose Form following function,now it seems that it's the exact opposite,such as making the iMac thinner,and getting rid of the optical drive and Ethernet.

No, you're totally wrong, and that doesn't explain why the 17" would be discontinued. We already have an explanation: sales.
Quote:
The Computer world is big enough,and flexible enough for more than one type of Consumer to be taken care of,even Apple.

That's why they have four models of laptop (and two old models) and four models of desktop (and one old model).
Quote:
Apple has gone almost entirely toward the Consumer,and has Shitted on their Pro and Pro-Sumer customers!

Then why are hundreds of thousands of professionals perfectly fine with the hardware offered right now?
Quote:
They admitted it during the last keynote,when Phil Schiler said,"Can't innovate,my Ass".

So you're just trolling now? Go back and watch the keynote. You don't even have an argument.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #141 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



So go buy a 17" laptop from someone who isn't Apple and just quit complaining. You seem to know what you want, Apple doesn't make it, therefore you can't buy from Apple.

How's that a relevant question?

Buy a Bonobo Extreme 17.3" from System 76 and you'll blow away a Mac Book pro of any size. This machine is a desktop replacement. The users can swap components if they ever want to and it can be customized to the max directly from the factory. Some features: eSATA, USB 3, fourth generation i7 chips, 2 discrete graphics cards, SSDs and HDDs or both, card reader, CD/DVD drive, multicolored back-lit keyboard, and matte screens. This is an American company building computers in the USA.

 

Unlike Apple, System 76 immediately implements the latest chips in their models. It takes Apple a year or more to catch up sometimes. That was the case at the time I was shopping for a new machine.

https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/bonx7

 

Other companies are expanding their 17" lineups. It is totally relevant. It demonstrates that their market research is showing that more people want them. These are desktop replacement machines. I wrote this before. Even if a person doesn't take their 17" machine outside or to work they can still use it around their house. It doesn't need to remain attached to a desk in just one spot the way a tower and monitor do.

post #142 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Buy a Bonobo Extreme 17.3" from System 76 and you'll blow away a Mac Book pro of any size. This machine is a desktop replacement.

Nine pounds, two inches thick, and the battery lasts a full minute! 1tongue.gif
Quote:
Unlike Apple, System 76 immediately implements the latest chips in their models. It takes Apple a year or more to catch up sometimes.

Not with the laptops, at least.
Quote:
Other companies are expanding their 17" lineups.

Source?
Quote:
It is totally relevant. It demonstrates that their market research is showing that more people want them. These are desktop replacement machines. I wrote this before. Even if a person doesn't take their 17" machine outside or to work they can still use it around their house. It doesn't need to remain attached to a desk in just one spot the way a tower and monitor do.

And this portion of the market doesn't make enough money to be viable for Apple.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #143 of 154
I have one of the uber 17" Dell desktop replacement precisions. They are heavy and the battery doesn't last but an hour or so. I use a generator in the field.

I used to have a 17" MBP too for work travel. But it often didn't fit in hotel room safes and was kinda too big for airplane tray tables when flying coach.

/shrug. At home and work I always had dedicated monitors. In the hotel I'd consider just lugging along a $200 21" 1080p IPS monitor for longer stays and just making do with 15" for short hops.

Frankly if the damn 13" MBP had a GPU I'd do a 13" instead of the 15". They aren't heavy until you're humping the damn thing around poorly laid out airports and insanely tight connections along with all the other imprtant crud you have to carry because you'd be screwed if the airline lost your luggage.

I dunno...the 17" was neither fish nor fowl for me. A little too big to travel, not quite the über desktop replacement laptop.
post #144 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Nine pounds, two inches thick, and the battery lasts a full minute! 1tongue.gif
Not with the laptops, at least.
Source?
And this portion of the market doesn't make enough money to be viable for Apple.

You're so full of yourself aren't you. If you want to know about what other manufacturers are doing then visit their sites. I have, and 17" machines are commonplace now. Visit Wal-Mart or Target and see how many 17" machines are on display. A long time ago such a display was a rare thing only used on the high end laptops. It isn't that way now.

 

I can recall three years where Apple didn't upgrade the chips in their laptops as soon as the new ones were available. They waited at least a year to do it. Maybe they're catching on that people don't like those long waits for newer processors. We still don't know if they'll do that for all of the MBP lineup. It might be a year before they all get the upgrade.

 

Where is your citation for the Bonobo Extreme battery that lasts a full minute? See, others can do that too.

 

The Bonobo Extreme is a desktop replacement machine with a large screen that uses a lot of power. It has two hard drives and two discrete graphics chips. That much stuff uses a lot of electricity, even with the Haswell i7. Owners of these report their batteries last 3-4 hours depending upon what they are doing with them. If it just had one hard drive and one discrete graphics chip and a smaller screen the battery life would be much longer.

 

One benefit of the System 76 machine is that the components can be changed and so can the battery. Apple has decided that it knows best and doesn't give people these choices. That is one reason my desire for their laptop computers is waning. They're doing the same thing with their desktop machines. If they want to make their desktop machines so small without disc drives then they should just make a giant iPad and put a Thunderbolt 2 connector on them. They could tell people to chain external hard drives, keyboards, and hubs for other devices to them that way. I believe that is coming.

post #145 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post



And you didn't notice 'round about 2008 that you should think about pulling that back?
 

 

Just today another municipality I deal with informed me that fire alarm plans must now be delivered not just in hard copy but also on optical disc.

Hard copies take up a lot of space. But still, file cabinets for discs is cheaper than servers and the electricity to run them.

Not everyone in the US has the benefit of huge tax bases for infrastructure and/or broadband yet.

 

And yes NFPA code requires hard copies of plans on site where the system is installed.

post #146 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

One benefit of the System 76 machine is that the components can be changed and so can the battery. Apple has decided that it knows best and doesn't give people these choices. That is one reason my desire for their laptop computers is waning. They're doing the same thing with their desktop machines. If they want to make their desktop machines so small without disc drives then they should just make a giant iPad and put a Thunderbolt 2 connector on them. They could tell people to chain external hard drives, keyboards, and hubs for other devices to them that way. I believe that is coming.

I'm sorry, but you just don't understand Apple's computers, is all.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #147 of 154

As soon as Apple releases an updated 17"macBook Pro,their lineup will be complete. It can serve as their Workstation-class,Technology trickle-down,Workhorse,trickle-down"Flagship",Aspirational,Dream Machine,to anchor their Laptop line. Here's hoping,for the Pros and lovers of Big-Screen Real Estate,to finally get what we've been clamoring for,since they made their bad mistake of dis-continuing it. Maybe Apple and Larry Ellison can both be proven wrong at the same time!

post #148 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic View Post

I recently saw a smartly dressed woman using a 17" Macbook on the train. I had completely forgotten just how big that thing was. Outside of a few niche reasons why would you need to carry around such a large laptop, why isn't an external monitor enough. I'm just asking here, I really don't know, I've always believed a notebook should be as small and light as possible for the task at hand. Task at hand being the keyword, do video editors travel to offsite locations enough to warrant such a large display, or printing, photo professionals.

 

I use as capable a computer as I can reasonably manage to carry. Compared to some of the other gear I have to lug around, even a huge computer is comparatively small.

 

The 17" MBP rides around in exactly the same backpack that carried my 15" before it.

 

As for external monitors, would YOU want to carry one around with you everywhere you go? Me neither.


Edited by v5v - 8/14/13 at 1:10am
post #149 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nine pounds, two inches thick

 

Still, MUCH easier to carry around than a computer with separate monitor.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

and the battery lasts a full minute! 1tongue.gif

 

Yeah, but unlike Apple's, they can be swapped out so all I have to do is carry ten of 'em like I do for the camera and the audio recorder and the mixer...

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And this portion of the market doesn't make enough money to be viable for Apple.

 

Nonsense. It's an inconvenience and Apple can't be bothered. I'd accept "it's a market Apple doesn't want" but not "it's not viable."


Edited by v5v - 8/14/13 at 1:02am
post #150 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I'm sorry, but you just don't understand Apple's computers, is all.

 

Agreed. Sometimes I just do not understand Apple AT ALL. 1wink.gif


Edited by v5v - 8/14/13 at 1:09am
post #151 of 154
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

Still, MUCH easier to carry around than a computer with separate monitor.


But not a 15" laptop.


Yeah, but unlike Apple's, they can be swapped out so all I have to do is carry ten of 'em like I do for the camera and the audio recorder and the mixer...

 

Sounds more like those other products need to have built in batteries with ten hours of life per. That way you wouldn't just have a laptop that doesn't need replacements carried around.

 

1tongue.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #152 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

But not a 15" laptop.

 

The objective is to get more content on the screen while remaining legible. A smaller screen runs contrary to that objective. A 15" with external monitor works, but it's easier to carry a 17" laptop.

post #153 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

When the 15" and 17" are side-by-side, the 17" doesn't look that much bigger:

 

And yet in actual use it's obvious that it is. Use one for an hour then switch to a 15" display. It will be obvious how much difference that extra space makes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I'd say the biggest reason for the 17" at one point was resolution. [...] The rMBP goes up to 1920x1200 now though:

[...] I doubt a Retina 17" would offer higher than 1920x1200 because the UI would get too small.

 

 

You're right, 1920 x 1200 on a 17" is about the limit of how small you can make UI elements and still keep it comfortably legible. That's why I'm not particularly excited about that resolution on a 15" screen. It's just too small.

post #154 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

And yet in actual use it's obvious that it is. Use one for an hour then switch to a 15" display. It will be obvious how much difference that extra space makes.

The space would be the same at the same resolution, it's just scaled up a little.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

You're right, 1920 x 1200 on a 17" is about the limit of how small you can make UI elements and still keep it comfortably legible. That's why I'm not particularly excited about that resolution on a 15" screen. It's just too small.

I wouldn't say 1920x1200 is comfortable at that size as this eloquent uhm teenage uhm Youtube reviewer uhm points uhm out uhhhhm:



At 2:00, what he says is: "if you have bad eyes, I do not recommend that you get this. I actually have glasses and I still think that this is uhm... it's kinda small but it's... I'd get use to it... uhm... yeah I don't really like the smallness".

1920x1200 on the rMBP is just as bad:



I find 1080p hard to read on Apple's 21.5" display. I think if they go Retina, they should have 1680x1050 optimal resolution on the lower one so rendered resolution of 3360x2100 and on the 27", have 1920x1080 as optimal with a rendered resolution of 3840x2160. They'd still be able to allow 1080p and 1440p as higher options.
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