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Apple exec suggests new iMacs may not come till 2013 - Page 3

post #81 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

I don't think it is that.  I think they are going to announce something, but they with the iMac, they might have to wait for new panels that haven't shipped yet, there might be new graphics chips that haven't shipped yet, and there might be some other components that haven't shipped yet,

 

What are you talking about? The iMac has not been updated for 406 days. This has not precedent in iMac's history. Apple could easily find anything they need to give it a routine refresh if they wanted to.

 

 

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by drblank View Post

 

so it doesn't make sense to announce one upgrade now and then another MAJOR upgrade in 6 or 7 months from now.

 

The Titanium Powerbook G4 was updated for the last time in November 2002, and then in February 2003 Apple introduced the all new Aluminum Powerbook G4. Besides the update cycle for the Macs in the past was more or less twice a year, or three times each two years. They could easily have updated the iMac around this WWDC and then introduce a redesigned model in 6-9 months from now, or even after one year if it is going to be radically different. They just did not want to. A reasonable explanation would be that they put much resources on iOS and the satellite-around-it-hardware.

post #82 of 162
Just say no to Hackentosh Macs.

For my desktop needs immseriously thinking of going back to Linux. Yeah hardware support sucks but frankly it isn't as bad as on Apples systems. My experiences with USB to RS232 adapters taught me that lesson.

Frankly I've never been an iMac customer and likely never will be. However I had high hopes that the Mini would morph into something more acceptable. Ivy Bridge or Trinity certainly could have vastly improved the Mini. Now I will have to reconsider the Mini as a potential solution and instead look to the Windows hardware world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

Having been waiting to buy an iMac myself, I'm obviously disappointed to hear this news -- though it could very well be misleading on purpose... It would not be the first time that Apple was less than forthcoming about their future plans.

Today's keynote was over 2 hours long and they rushed through many of the sections as it was, adding another section to talk about Desktop hardware may have been unfeasible.  To say nothing of the fact that Apple always likes to milk one product release before over-shadowing it with another.

All of this being said, the real fact of the matter is that the iMac is typically refreshed every 273 days, and it has now been just over 400 since the last upgrade.  Making us wait another 6-8 months would essentially spell the end of Apple's mid-range desktop market, as I'm sure we're all contemplating a Hackintosh right about now; something that I'm sure has not escaped the grasp of Tim and his team.

Optimistic?  Perhaps, but it's all I have to cling to at the moment...

Well the one thing we have to remember is this thread is based on an unofficial conversation with an excutives of unknown placement. He simply may not have the details down right. I have to balance that with what appears to be fairly clear statements regarding 2013. All in all I'm not hopeful at all. Even if the hardware comes early in 2013 it is very likely to not reflect user needs. I mean really if they can't support users with hardware that meets their needs after 400 days then they are grossly out of touch with user needs.

By the way I'm talking about USB 3 here which is extremely important if you are buying new hardware. Modern GPUs in an iMac are always welcomed too. I have to agree though making users wait +6 months is asinine. It will be very interesting to see what happens to desktop sales this year if nothing rolls out with Mountain Lion. .
post #83 of 162
I'm not sure what is up with he six months thing. However I totally disagree with respect to the need for an iMac overhaul. The current iMac is a terrible design and I will not buy one as it is now. But then again you would have to be really hard up for an iMac right now to buy the current model as it is nothing but legacy hardware.

In any event the problem today isn't with anyone model it is that Apple turned its back on the entire desktop user community. Effectively nothing was revved in a manner that users need. Not only did they walk away from the desktop user, they debuted the "new" Mac Pro which amounted to throwing those users the finger. It is really terrible behavior for such a large company. If Apple doesn't want desktop customers they should just say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenaustus View Post

I don't see Apple waiting 6+ months for an iMac.  

Maybe it is because I'm waiting for an update before buying, but the iMac is just too good a design for Apple to walk away from.  Like the Mac Pro, there is no need to change the external design.  Improve the innards and display and put it on the market.
post #84 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

 

What are you talking about? The iMac has not been updated for 406 days. This has not precedent in iMac's history. Apple could easily find anything they need to give it a routine refresh if they wanted to.

 

 

 

The Titanium Powerbook G4 was updated for the last time in November 2002, and then in February 2003 Apple introduced the all new Aluminum Powerbook G4. Besides the update cycle for the Macs in the past was more or less twice a year, or three times each two years. They could easily have updated the iMac around this WWDC and then introduce a redesigned model in 6-9 months from now, or even after one year if it is going to be radically different. They just did not want to. A reasonable explanation would be that they put much resources on iOS and the satellite-around-it-hardware.

Here is the thing.  Apple has suppliers building new mfg plants to make new displays, assembly, this or that.  What happens if the panel supplier for a new BIG panel isn't finished building their new mfg plant in time to announce the iMac in time for WWDC?   I mean seriously, they have custom fans, speakers on the new MBP and guess what?  They can't put it out right now because of whatever reason(s) and just because YOU or I or someone else wants something now, doesn't mean that we can get it now.  They put resources on iOS because they want to have a new iOS every year. But they put the resources where they can and they do their job in whatever time frame they can and they release stuff when they can and if they have to delay something for WHATEVER reason, then that's what it is.  Yeah, I would love to see a new iMac, but if the reason is not known to me, then I or anyone else can't just make up some invalid reason because we honestly don't the REAL reason unless Apple tells us, which they might or might not be able to, want to, or need to.  All we know is that the new iMac wasn't released yesterday and if the new one takes another 6 or 7 months, then it will take another 6 or 7 months.  If you can't wait, you basically have a few options.  Get an iMac that they have now, get a MBP now or buy a PC and suffer from having to use Windows.  Personally, I was planning on getting an iMac too, but I may decide to buy a MBP instead because that retina model KICKS any other product out there and it does the same thing and i can get a big flat panel screen if I need a bigger monitor to look at.  EIther way, the world isn't going to end just because Apple couldn't get their iMac out and HOPEFULLY, we'll get some more info from Apple IF they decide to go public about it.  

post #85 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundvision View Post


Well you don't see any blind, deaf or handicapped people walking around with Mac Pros in their hand do you?
I sold Macs for a living for many years and I've impacted a lot of people's lives with iPads, iPhone/iPod Touch and the Universal Access features of Mac OS X. I've never impacted someone's life with a Mac Pro. Not discounting the Mac Pro or its lack of update cycle, but being mad because they didn't update your high end Mac doesn't discount their motives.

I am sure there is a logical reason that Apple hasn't mentioned because there might be something that they just simply have to wait for and they may not want to tell us because IT'S A SURPRISE. 

 

Do you know that in the Audiophile world that products are refreshed sometimes 3 to 5 years between models?  Sometimes even longer. You just can't FORCE things to happen.  If you need a new product get what they currently have that does the job OR wait.  I mean, their products have a lifespan of at least 3 years because that's the AppleCare Warranty period when you buy one, so if a product hasn't been replaced in 3 years, THEN I would start worrying.

post #86 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post
I mean, their products have a lifespan of at least 3 years because that's the AppleCare Warranty period when you buy one, so if a product hasn't been replaced in 3 years, THEN I would start worrying.

 

That's far too lenient.

post #87 of 162
This isn't just an affront to creative professionals it is a slap in the face to every desktop user. That is if the rumor about no iMacs this year are true. The problem for Mac Pro users is the take this crap and shut up approach that Apple has taken to this update.

Mind you I'm not so much up in arms over the non E5 update as I'm am over the glaring slap in the face that the old GPU card is. What the hell is that all about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

You and pretty much every creative professional in the world.

Replacing infrastructure, software, work-flow, education and familiarity is no small feat - for any size company and it comes at a cost.
Solip is wrong to say we "don't have to buy their products".
The reality is you don't have to buy their products. Thinking like that is why Apple might be able to get away with this abomination of an update.
Quote:
Lots of us are at a crossroads - and our patience is growing thin.

Up until yesterday I was suggesting that people should be patient as Apple must have been working on a significant update to the Mac Pro. Obviously that did not come through. Sometimes that happens but you expect companies like Apple to have viable contingency plans. This rev of the Mac Pro could have been such a contingency plan if they had taken the time to actually update it to reflect today's needs. That would have meant including a significantly upgraded GPU card, USB 3 ports (even if on a PCI card) and whatever else needed a refresh. Instead we get CPU upgrades only, which I don't knock but they are hardly enough.

I still kinda want to believe that Apple is overhauling their desktop line up to make it a rational play for the next few years but my faith is greatly diminished. They have had far to long of a time to modernize the desktop. I'm speaking of the entire lineup here. So my suggestion is to explore the alternatives.
post #88 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Chrisr View Post

To be perfectly honest, anyone buying a iMac today is being ripped off by Apple PERIOD.

 

Since the May 2011 iMac appeared, the cost of its components have dropped substantially, particularly the CPU, RAM, GPU and LCD panel - given the Apple premium is already 30% on all their  desktops at launch, that means today anyone one purchasing the iMac is giving 50% of the price to Apple directly in profit.

 

The company has no excuses, its a blatant rip-off and the fools purchasing 18 month old technology don't have much of a clue - they are but shinny toys to go with their iOS toys.

 

All desktop users are asking for - that's those of us who making both a living and enjoy leisure time on their Mac's - is a slight revision of the existing product and not a new Steve Ive inspired re-design.

 

Surely, it is not too difficult to make the leap to Ivy Bridge and a new GPU - perhaps with additional RAM and larger HDD in top end model.

 

Judging by the Mac Pro revision, it appears Apple are giving us the finger - God I wish I'd not sold by iMac BTO 27in i7 now, I'm still using the other one I own, but without a refresh, I'm tempted to do a Hackintosh and utilise latest top end Sandy Bridge i7K's - with the money I save, I can then easily afford a Dell 27in monitor or Apple TB LCD - Aesthetics are one thing, exploitation is another, and Apple are now exploiting the Sheople and becoming more and more a business focused on the elite, rather than your average consumer. 

 

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/stress_relief_meditation_yoga_relaxation.htm

 

-kpluck

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post #89 of 162

I'm limping on an ancient CoreDuo iMac that is a first generation Intel with Snow Leopard that i would love to replace, but guess what?  I either have to wait for a new iMac because I prefer to have the latest processors OR I buy a MBP and a large panel monitor and do it that way. So if you have something newer than a first generation iMac running Snow Leopard, then you don't have anything to complain about.  OK.  Seriously.

 

So sit back get what they have now, or get nice tall cool glass of STFU and don't be an idiot about it.


Edited by drblank - 6/12/12 at 7:43am
post #90 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Here is the thing.  Apple has suppliers building new mfg plants to make new displays, assembly, this or that.  What happens if the panel supplier for a new BIG panel isn't finished building their new mfg plant in time to announce the iMac in time for WWDC?   I mean seriously, they have custom fans, speakers on the new MBP and guess what?  They can't put it out right now because of whatever reason(s) and just because YOU or I or someone else wants something now, doesn't mean that we can get it now.

The problems of the kind you mention are often known. There have been numerous times in the past when some delays were explained by such issues. For the case of the iMac we have total darkness and silence.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

EIther way, the world isn't going to end just because Apple couldn't get their iMac out and HOPEFULLY, we'll get some more info from Apple IF they decide to go public about it.

I think they went public about it in a way not exactly open but quite explicit by turning their back to the desktop users. This is all they could come up with after 685 days for the Mac Pro and 406 days for the iMac? Give me break here.

post #91 of 162

I would not be surprised if Apple quietly updated the iMac and Mac Mini later in the year and then axed the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro next year.

 

Then next year an all new iMac with a smaller/cheaper entry level model to replace the Mac Mini and a high end pro model to replace the Mac Pro.


Edited by Shaun, UK - 6/12/12 at 8:14am
post #92 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by franktinsley View Post

Yes really.

For you maybe, but the majority opinion seems to be that the case design is just fine. I have no problem with mine. Don't mistake the outer shell for the internals. Apple has made major changes there several times.

This isn't a consumer device. If you think that the case has to look different just so that it looks different, you aren't buying pro level machines, because we don't care what the outside looks like, as long as it does what it's supposed to do, and that it does.

Do I want a new Mac Pro? You bet! But the outer shell is of no importance. I'm not trying to show people by the case, that I just bought the newest. If that's what bothers you, then your mind is on the wrong thing.
post #93 of 162

Maybe - just maybe - the Pro hasn't been updated because sales for the product are still strong - "strong" meaning they meet whatever internal target that Apple has for them. Or just maybe - they haven't hit a sales figured required to trigger the next evolution. 

 

Just speculating here - and yes an upgrade that sparks a rush of sales can't be left out of the equation. But in my opinion - it is beyond a waste of time to make claims that no one at Apple cares about the Pro line simply because there has been no update in x months (or years). 

 

As for design - I don't think the Pro tower is dated - though it has been a long time since I have felt a need for the power and expandability the tower offers. I did buy a Mac Mini Server with 12TB external RAID array recently - for data intensive purposes with little CPU load. 

 

Also, as a Mac user since the Mac SE - I have seen this sort of discussion throughout Apple's history - wild speculation regarding someone's particular favorite machine and why Apple hasn't updated it in so long - as well as denigrating whatever new product comes out as why would ANYONE want THAT since it doesn't fit MY expectations or requirements. 

 

My dad's theory of how to ensure that a manufacturer would produce a newer better product is to go buy the current product since it always seems like the next best thing comes along right AFTER you spent your money on the previous one. 

 

My last three notebook purchases have been 17" Mac notebooks - a PowerBook G4, a Core2 Duo, and a Core i7 - with the apparent demise of the 17" form factor (for now) I don't know what I my next notebook will be - although since I don't expect it to be for at least a year or possibly two - I will deal with that decision when the time comes - will there be a 17" Mac option then? or will I find one of the 15" options acceptable? That remains to be seen - it is far more likely that I would buy a 15" MacBook than anything in the Windows world. In the mean time I will not lament Apple's decision to make business decisions that keep the company profitably in business. 

post #94 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoffdino 
I don't fucking need a new design, just give me the same Mac Pro, with 2012 CPUs, Thunderbolt, etc

Focus on sales figures, profit margin, market share, popularity, etc... is the typical mindset of a company runs by a bunch of MBAs, not the daring, bold Apple I've known and loved.

So you're saying for Apple to be daring and bold, they should give you the same design but with new components?

I'd say for Apple to be daring and bold, they would do what they did with FCPX. Turn round to the customers who invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and say 'we're going this way now because it leads to a better place, come along for the ride or take the well worn path without us'.

Everyone has a benchmark for their computer. The individual workstation owner who laughs at the iMac and laptop owner would be laughed at by the render wrangler.

There is no job in 2012 you can do on a Mac Pro that you cannot do on a Macbook Pro. Some final passes on jobs will take longer but not many and there is still a Mac Pro available to do the grunt work.

I don't expect this rumour to be true at all. Pogue didn't even say Apple executive, he just said executive. It could have been the executive toilet attendent at the Moscone centre. There's no reason Apple would launch OS X 10.8 and not have a new set of consumer desktops.

Apple rarely launches all products at once. The laptops are the biggest sellers and they always come first, then it's the iMac and Mini. They will be updated in July or August at the latest.
post #95 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

This is the first keynote presentation that I wasn't interested in watching. I've been shopping for a new computer. I'm not interested in Facebook integration or super displays. I'm interested in CPUs, RAM, graphics cards, and energy consumption. It seems like Apple is more interested in integrating all of us with everything on the internet whether we want it or not. Tag this and that. Send it out to the world of social web sites.
I don't see it that way. Apples laptops are excellent examples of hardware, they currently don't have a bad laptop deign. So from that standpoint they are still about hardware. It is the desktop that has been ignored for too long. Some throw up their arms when I call the desktop lineup stagnet but I suspect hearts are changing here.

As to software one of the reasons I moved from Linux to a MBP was software. Specifically Apples software. You can't dismiss the importance of software, it becomes glaringly obvious once you walk up to a Windows machine. People often forget that underneath Mac OS/X lies UNIX which is a huge advantage for the platform.
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Apple has given up the embodiment of the "Think Different" 1984 advertisement. Now they're more interested in getting us to do everything the Apple way. They want us to integrate our phones with our computers, iPads, the internet, TVs, and even with purchasing products anywhere we can make a purchase with credit cards. Apple tells people they can't purchase apps outside of the Apple environment. They won't let people do what they want with their iDevices otherwise their warranties will be voided. That certainly is the opposite of "Think Different".
Really this is no place to whine about Apple. One of the reasons that I own an iPhone is that infrastructure, without which the iPhone would be useless.
Quote:
Apple got us thinking we were special because we were different than the rest, but Apple is now one of the largest corporations on the planet. They got that way by getting us to join in the ranks. So now we number in the tens of millions. I'm sure that the people at Apple think of us as just joining the Apple family, but it doesn't feel like that. It feels very superficial.
Please get a grip. You really need to look into why you need to feel special.
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I'm getting the urge to jump ship. Anybody else feel this way? Tux (Linux) here I come!

I came to Apple from an array of Linux machines, many of which I still have and use. The MBP is my primary "computer" now though and I don't see that changing. Why? Because it works well even if a little old. Notably though most of my Mail and web access is now handled on an iPad, because it simply is a better tool for that.

Since I'm still using Linux I can reflect a bit on that. It is a great tool in its own right, however you simply don't have the quality software to choose from that you have on the Mac. Let me be more specific, you don't have the quality user apps that the Mac is known for on Linux. You do have very high quality apps available for Linux but these are not normally mainstream user apps. Even then the quality apps on Linux for the most part have crap UIs.

With respect to hardware Linux is an incredible mixed bag. It is often harder to get Linux to run on new hardware where as Apples Mac OS often doesn't rise on older hardware. Desktop hardware is generally not a problem, laptops however still are. Thankfully both AMD and Intel are supporting their hardware well these days with both closed and open source support. Sometime that support is farther ahead than Apples. In the end though Linux requires constant updating and user intervention to keep the hardware running well. Worst is the constant need to update a "distro" (about every six months) because you need to get the latest updates to support your hardware. If you don't do a complete distro update your system slowly becomes a mess if you try to retro (back port support) update.

Linux works best on hardware that has been around awhile and if you can remain on one distro release for as long as possible. Otherwise the need to constantly update your distro becomes a pain and is no where near as pain free as a Mac OS update.

In any event I'd think long and hard about switching to Linux, it really doesnt work that great as a desktop system running user productivity software. It is just to much monkeying around. It is a different story though if you have more focused uses in mind.
post #96 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

... no... as melgross said... not really

 

Apple intentionally limits the product range and slows down the product cycle for a number of reasons (read the Steve Jobs book... its states it plainly0

 

- to coincide with seasonal consumer trends

- they only change something when they have something better to replace it - the Mac Pro is great design - what competing product would you suggest is anywhere close to the Mac Pro.... hmm, I thought so....

- to simply tell the story - Apple makes 'insanely great' products not a bunch of crap.

- to make it easier for customers to select the product they need - go figure which Sony product or pre 1997 Apple product you need... it's bewildering

- it effectively and efficiently reinforces brand recognition

 

Many Apple products have remained the same for far longer than competitors products. Apple has one style of keyboard and has had so for years, how many does microsoft have? Why do they need different styles? Why don't they just make one really good one?

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

 

Apple has different priorities than the rest of the computer and consumer electronics industries and while Apple is the one being copied a lot these days, most companies still don't do everything Apple's way.  First, I'm not surprised that we saw Macs that didn't get upgraded right now.  I can't remember a time that Apple turned over the entire Mac product line at once.  The fact that they turned over the entire Macbook line at once is pretty extraordinary.

 

Second, I'm sure the "unnamed Apple exec" who spoke to David Pogue is probably "unnamed Apple exec Phil Schiller".  I'm certain they knew there would be some blowback from people expecting to see Ivy bridge across the board all at once and a new Mac Pro (instead of the speed bump) and the message was to be patient.  It's not surprising to se the Macbooks get the new toys first.  They outsell the desktop Macs 3 to 1 easy.  And if you look at the comments above, the iMac isn't as beholden to the "seasonal buying trends" meaning "back to school" as it was a decade ago.  Most students carry Macbooks of some sort now or even iPads or both.  Oh sure, the iMac is still needed to classrooms and people who want a desktop Mac, either at home or at a business.  But school systems buy more iPads now anyway than Macs and those buyers care more about price than the latest Ivy Bridge hotness.

 

Somehow I still don't think we'll have to wait for 2013 for new iMacs or Mac Minis...they will just get updated press release style in a few months.

 

As for the Mac Pro, given the fact that Apple made a behind the scenes comment to Pogue at all means they are sensitive to these buyers.  Mac Pro buyers are not the rest of us.  Back in the old days, a lot of die hard geeks such as myself made sure to get whatever Mac tower Apple made at the time.  Now the Mac Pro is owned almost exclusively by the "time is money" crowd, and some collegiate academic and scientific circles.  If I need to processa lot of uncompressed video for a TV show or movie, I'm sorry but a Macbook Pro Retina is not going to cut it.  There used to be an old saying with car engines "there is no substitute for cubic inches".  For people who need the horsepower, only a multi-cored Xeon will get you to a deadline.

 

Which brings us to Apple's problem.  Since the "time is money" crowd buys machines when they need them, not necessarily due to "seasonal consumer trends", this machine ends up having a longer life cycle and we've seen that during the entire life of the Mac Pro since 2006 (and before that going back to the PowerMac days).  Right now I'm sure that Apple debated whether or not to go to Sandy Bridge-E for the Mac Pro right now.  On one hand, they need PCI 3.0 (which SB-E has) but they also need USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt (which SB-E does not have).  Suitable Ivy Bridge Xeon architecture won't be available until 2013 and this is where I think Apple decided to go with the extended product cycle strategy.  If they replace the Mac Pro with a new one, they are looking to have this guy around for 2-3 years with minimal changes.  They really don't want to shoehorn some added technology over and above what SB-E offers only to have it all on the chip level in six months anyway.  Better to wait and then do it all at once (which is more economical too).

post #97 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange whip View Post

... no... as melgross said... not really

Apple intentionally limits the product range and slows down the product cycle for a number of reasons (read the Steve Jobs book... its states it plainly0
There is a difference between slowing down and giving up. Look at old people, those that slow down enjoy their old years, those that give up die.
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- to coincide with seasonal consumer trends
USB 3 is a consummer trend and an important one, so how is ignoring it on the desktop smart.
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- they only change something when they have something better to replace it
OK so where is Ivy Bridge in a Mini?
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- the Mac Pro is great design - what competing product would you suggest is anywhere close to the Mac Pro.... hmm, I thought so....
At this point the Mac Pro is a piece of crap. If you can't recognize that how do you expect people to consider what you are writing here?
Quote:
- to simply tell the story - Apple makes 'insanely great' products not a bunch of crap.
The Mac Pro is now a heaping pile of crap. Computers these days without USB 3 are crap. It looks like Apples entire desktop line is a smoldering pile of crap.
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- to make it easier for customers to select the product they need - go figure which Sony product or pre 1997 Apple product you need... it's bewildering
That concept has truly gotten old especially when it seems to be justification for ignoring significant portions of the market.
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- it effectively and efficiently reinforces brand recognition
So you are saying that Apple keeps the same Mac Pro case around so that people can recognize crap easier?
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Many Apple products have remained the same for far longer than competitors products. Apple has one style of keyboard and has had so for years, how many does microsoft have? Why do they need different styles? Why don't they just make one really good one?

Actually I've been asking for years that question, why oesnt Apple make a good keyboard.

Please don't let Apples marketing BS blind you to the current situation.
post #98 of 162
Please don't make excuses for Apples behavior here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

I think you're going way over the top here in your criticism.  The fact is an iMac from three generations ago is still a fast, powerful machine even for things like video editing and graphics.  the new ones are faster and it would be great to get a new one every year but to say that it's a "grave mistake" is just silly.  Most people use a computer to browse the web and type a few documents.  Even in business the most use they will get is a large spreadsheet or two.  Even an iMac from the very beginning of the aluminium models (generations ago) is still more than sufficient for that.  
post #99 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26Chrisr View Post

To be perfectly honest, anyone buying a iMac today is being ripped off by Apple PERIOD.

 

Since the May 2011 iMac appeared, the cost of its components have dropped substantially, particularly the CPU, RAM, GPU and LCD panel - given the Apple premium is already 30% on all their  desktops at launch, that means today anyone one purchasing the iMac is giving 50% of the price to Apple directly in profit.

 

The company has no excuses, its a blatant rip-off and the fools purchasing 18 month old technology don't have much of a clue - they are but shinny toys to go with their iOS toys.

 

All desktop users are asking for - that's those of us who making both a living and enjoy leisure time on their Mac's - is a slight revision of the existing product and not a new Steve Ive inspired re-design.

 

Surely, it is not too difficult to make the leap to Ivy Bridge and a new GPU - perhaps with additional RAM and larger HDD in top end model.

 

Judging by the Mac Pro revision, it appears Apple are giving us the finger - 

You know what?  I think you should buy a Dell or an HP, or better yet, go buy an Acer leave Appleinsider because it sounds like you aren't the type of person that Apple needs or even wants as a customer.   If I was Apple and I found out who you were, I walk over to your business with a BRAND new Dell hunk of junk, take your Apple away from you and give you a restraining order to buy anything from Apple ever again.  Yes, component prices go down, but guess what shipping costs have gone up, labor costs have gone up and other things have gone up, the dollar has been devalued.  They aren't making a TON of money on desktops in the first place.  Do you think Aluminum prices have gone down?  Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges.  You really need to understand the cost of doing business before you open your mouth.  OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get.  GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.

 

When Apple buys components they typically do YEARLY purchases or some kind of BIG contract.  If a particular component price drops significantly below what they bought it under their contract, they don't always get automatic price protection.  OK?  So, when they made their contract for 1333DDR memory, it was done at the time when they initiated the contract. IF the price of memory dropped because memory companies are dumping memory, Apple, just most other computer mfg don't always get price protection.  Now, if you don't want to understand this, then no one can help you.  If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else.  Computer hardware is not, nor will it ever be high margin products.  


Edited by drblank - 6/12/12 at 8:37am
post #100 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

You know what?  I think you should buy a Dell or an HP, or better yet, go buy an Acer leave Appleinsider because it sounds like you aren't the type of person that Apple needs or even wants as a customer.   If I was Apple and I found out who you were, I walk over to your business with a BRAND new Dell hunk of junk, take your Apple away from you and give you a restraining order to buy anything from Apple ever again.  Yes, component prices go down, but guess what shipping costs have gone up, labor costs have gone up and other things have gone up, the dollar has been devalued.  They aren't making a TON of money on desktops in the first place.  Do you think Aluminum prices have gone down?  Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges.  You really need to understand the cost of doing business before you open your mouth.  OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get.  GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.

 

When Apple buys components they typically do YEARLY purchases or some kind of BIG contract.  If a particular component price drops significantly below what they bought it under their contract, they don't always get automatic price protection.  OK?  So, when they made their contract for 1333DDR memory, it was done at the time when they initiated the contract. IF the price of memory dropped because memory companies are dumping memory, Apple, just most other computer mfg don't always get price protection.  Now, if you don't want to understand this, then no one can help you.  If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else.  Computer hardware is not, nor will it ever be high margin products.  

 

Maybe Apple can't get enough 8 core processors from Intel yet and they want to add some other features and a product redesign because the new processors demand new fans that have to be made, or some other chips haven't shipped or whatever the case may be.  You don't know, I don't know and until Apple releases a redesign or tells us then we don't know.  We can only guess. But Apple is not intentionally giving anyone the finger.  That's just plain dumb reasoning.  Sorry, but that is just plain dumb.

post #101 of 162

I personally think the Mac Pro is finished. I think there will be another iMac, they are just waiting a month or two, so as to let people focus on the new hotness.

 

Long term, maybe they want us to use laptops with external monitors, or just AirPlay to our HDTV if we want a big screen.

post #102 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

There is no job in 2012 you can do on a Mac Pro that you cannot do on a Macbook Pro

Awesome!  Where do I plug this in?  http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/

post #103 of 162

The current iMac really is an incredibly powerful machine. I don't think consumers are crying out for faster processors in them. It's all about that gorgeous display that just dominates the product.

post #104 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by taugust04 View Post

Wow, there is a lot of over-reaction to the minimal Mac Pro refresh, and the lack of an iMac refresh. With every quarter that goes by, there is an increasing percentage of laptop vs desktop sales. Apple is simply dedicating their resources to where the profits are, which are iOS devices and Mac laptops.
Resources? Are you nuts, they have over $100 billion in the bank, hey could afford an iMac, Mini and Pro refresh. Oh it is not an over reaction to say that the Pro refresh is a joke. More precisely it is an insult to the Mac Pro community.
Quote:
That being said, I don't think desktops are going anywhere, and the lack of a refresh doesn't point to that. The iMac and Mac Pro are relatively stable and mature platforms, as most of the desktop PC industry is as a whole. Intel's roadmap's for desktop CPU's have also been 'slowing down' as of late as well, which could partially explain the longer refresh cycle of the iMac.
Oh come on, we all know Ivy Bridge is out. While it certainly offers little in the way of performance gains the support for USB 3 is important to iMac users.
Quote:
The other question to ask, is, does Intel have a Xeon capable chipset available that supports Thunderbolt and USB 3.0? If the answer is no, then, that answer helps partially explain why the Mac Pro was just speed-bumped today and not much else.
So explain the video card! More so is it that difficult for Apple to write a driver for a third party USB 3 chip? Mind you it has been over two years now.
Quote:
Apple didn't take the plunge on USB 3.0 on their mobile computers until Intel had the integrated chipset available to make it so. Although they are doing a lot of customization in the iOS hardware area, and in the power management of their mobile computers, one thing Apple has not been doing is spending a lot of resources on customizing chipsets for their desktops and laptops. Most are based on reference designs and chipsets from Intel, and I wouldn't expect that to change any time soon.
Well that is in part garbage because some of Apples IP is in the laptops. However if your primary supplier is failing, isn't it about time to look for a third party.
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As mobile computers become faster and more powerful, they are increasingly becoming part of the 'pro' workflow. I think the new MBP with Retina Display is a testament to that. The new model may not be a mainstream bestseller due to pricing, but, it's going to sell will in the pro and pro-sumer markets that need the additional horsepower and features the new model offers.
Actually I suspect Apple will have a huge backlog. I'm objective enough to see the retina MBP as a very compelling machine. However it is not a desktop machine nor can it effectively compete with one.
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I would expect Mac laptops continue to be refreshed on a yearly basis, since the technology is continuing to improve at a faster rate than in the desktop segment of the market. The iMac and Mac Mini will probably go to a 12-18 month cycle.
You do realize that the Mini uses the same laptop chips that you claim are improving so damn fast!!! The fact is Ivy Bridge is exactly what the Mini needs to make it a more vible platform.
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The Mac Pro may go two years between major technology refreshes, with only speed bumps in between. I think it's more telling that the Mac Pro did not get discontinued today (as the 17" MacBook Pro did), than the minimal refresh to the line. The fact it's still in the product line means Apple is still getting enough sales to justify still running the factories to produce them.
Do you really think anybody would be buying the Mac Pro as it is now unless they had no choice? What today's non releases tells us is that Apple doesn't give a damn about the desktop. If the rumors about no iMacs until 2013 are true it also indicates a disdain for their customers.
Quote:
Otherwise, they would be in the Apple product graveyard.
My prediction: expect an iMac refresh in the fall, and a Mac Pro refresh in 2013.

So you think it is wise and proper for Apple to continue to sell grossly outdated iMacs to their customers when the hardware solutions exist to modernize the machines? Is it good for customer relations to say you can't have a desktop with USB 3 because we are to damn lazy to build one? Frankly I don't care if the product would only be on the market for six months until the current iMacs replacement cones. For me it is a question of ethics. If Apple advertised the iMac as their antique computer that would be one thing but they don't do that. Instead it is offered up as a modern computer which it isn't anymore.
post #105 of 162

2012: Quiet iMac speed bump.

2013: 26" iMac Retina.

post #106 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

The current iMac really is an incredibly powerful machine. I don't think consumers are crying out for faster processors in them. It's all about that gorgeous display that just dominates the product.

 

Certainly a Retina iMac will be "the pro desktop workstation" for 2013. This way Apple streamlines the Mac line. They have "legacy" stuff like Mac Pro, Mac Mini, old iMac and old Macbook Pro, which is replaced by MacBook Air, Retina MBP and within the next 1.5 years Retina iMac. 

 

In Apple's case the momentum is all iPhone and iPad. Macs and OS X won't be going anywhere, it's a key part but I imagine Apple wants to streamline it to "the computer you're going to buy if you're not buying a phone or tablet". Hence Retina MBP and Retina iMac.

 

Interestingly before the keyonte last night I used my Apple Bluetooth Keyboard with my Retina iPad for the first time. It hit me how killer it was. An actual full-fledged computer with a Retina display? Indescribable. 

 

And you can bet your bottom dollar in China and Asia anyone who's anyone (aka everybody trying to gain status aka almost everyone) will be gunning purely for the MBA, Retina MBP or in 2013 Retina iMac.

post #107 of 162
I really hope so but it doesn't look promising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

There may be major changes to the desktop lineup next year, but I'm still confident that Apple will update the iMac and Mac mini next month when Mountain Lion ships.

The following is based simply on the current lineup and chips that are available. I have no inside information.

>>>>>don't care about the current iMac design.

MiniCore i5 3210M (2.5GHz), Intel 4000 graphics

MiniCore i5 3320M (2.6GHz), nVidia GeForce GT 640M LE - optional Core i7 3520M (2.9GHz)

MiniCore i7 3612QM (2.1GHz), Intel 4000 graphics

Server

I was actually hoping for a bit more of a performance gain. I also dislike the marketing of the machine as a server. Make a quad core mainstream.

Beyond that though I want to see other updates to the Mini. First would be the use of a Blade SSD for boot and apps without loosing the space for conventional drives. The other thing is support fort more RAM. It is a given that the other Ivy Bridge features like USB 3 would be supported.

As to the quad core machine I'd like to see the ability to support higher wattage processors so that we can sustain higher clock rates. Actually I'd like to see quad core move into the lower end model.
post #108 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You know what else makes it look like Apple doesn't care about the pro line anymore? The industrial design. The "cheese grater" case has been around how long now? Almost exactly nine years, with the introduction of the PowerMac G5. Apple has never kept any design for any other computer around that long. It's not like it's a great design, either. Bulky, with those curved handles. Ridiculously heavy thanks to the heavy gauge aluminum. And to my eyes, butt ugly. Sure is less elegant than the simple and sleek Quicksilver (but similarly bulky) PowerMac G4. Granted, the internals are very neatly laid out and getting to them is easier than with PC towers. But to be absolutely honest, a very dated design.

Not really.

 

Not really motion seconded.

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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post #109 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

There is no job in 2012 you can do on a Mac Pro that you cannot do on a Macbook Pro

Awesome!  Where do I plug this in?  http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/

 

Into a Thunderbolt port as soon as Blackmagic gets their head out of their.....

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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post #110 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Actually I've been asking for years that question, why oesnt Apple make a good keyboard.
Please don't let Apples marketing BS blind you to the current situation.

 

 

Wizard, so the MacPro isn't where people want it to be, but I am sure in good time, they'll announce a new version to satisfy those that want USB 3, Thunderbolt, E5 chips, etc.  Show me ONE SINGLE Windows laptop that has Thunderbolt (which, BTW, is way better than USB 3), has a 5K display in a case that is aluminum, that is less than .75 inches thick, that weight less than 4.5 lbs?  I'll wait for your answer.  Until then, Apple will release products when they can and you decide to buy it or not.  Right now, they can't release any major releases for whatever reason and the thing is, these hardware companies can't redesign their top end systems every 6 months.  They'll lose money if they do that.

 

If you have a MacPro and NEED USB 3, here's a link for you.  http://eshop.macsales.com/item/CalDigit/U3HOSTADPTR/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase&gclid=CM_RgamKybACFccBRQodnh_AZA

 

IF you need other upgrades for the MacPro, go to OtherWorldComputing because they might have some interim solution for you. 

post #111 of 162

No new iMacs was a very sad disappointment.  No acknowledgment of the Mac Pro upgrade, and half baked upgrade at that, was equally as bad.  It could have been a major presentation coup had they upgraded their entire line up at once, and in my opinion, spurred sales from great headlines.  Quite the big splash opportunity for Tim Cook.  For what ever reason, the lack of announcements are sorely disappointing to us mac fans.  The Mac Pro non announcement and weak upgrade, as stated above, delivers a very poor message to consumers.  To me it says, "we don't care about this product line. We have spent 2 years doing virtually nothing to it.  We are not even going to bother to give it thunderbolt, something available on even our cheapest computers".  So as a Mac Pro owner this comes as a complete slap in the face by apple.  A pro machine, used by many graphics people who move huge files from major external drives and no thunderbolt, no usb3?  Yet both these ports are on a 999$ mac book air??!!!  Wow apple, you really really don't care about your high end users willing to spend $4K on one of your machines!  A very sad showing for a great company!  

post #112 of 162
Get rid of this glossy piece of iMac dung already.
Jonny can you hear me?
post #113 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch View Post

 

Into a Thunderbolt port as soon as Blackmagic gets their head out of their.....

Yeah right. Black Magic makes some of the best gear out there and it is mostly platform independent Windows, Mac & Linux. Accusing them of head up ass is about as far off the mark as you could possibly be.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #114 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail View Post

Awesome!  Where do I plug this in?  http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/decklinkhdextreme/

I think he didn't realize that you need PCI slots.  Can you do with a 12 core system that they have now?  What is it that you need that the current MacPro can't do? I am just curious.

post #115 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Seriously, these things are not high mark up like software and they aren't ripping you off for software updates like Microsoft is, are they? NO. $30 or now $20 for a major OS release rather than what MS charges. 

 

OR better yet, make your own PC and Operating System and see how far you get.  GO to Fry's or some component Build it Yourself computer parts store and make your own computer.

 

 If you feel the product is too expensive, then buy something else.

Microsoft doesn't care what you do with the software after you buy it. You can put it on any computer. Apple calls you a criminal if you put the software you purchased on any computer other than an Apple. If you exchange money for something and you can't do what you want to do with it then you don't own it. You are renting it.

If you put any software on your iDevices other than approved software from the Apple Store, Apple voids your warranty. How is that fair? What about all the people who updated their iPhones and iPod Touches and lost functionality and data? Apple didn't do much to help those people.

When companies act that way they loose business and their reputation suffers. I think Apple is peaking right now.

Making a custom computer is challenging. The good thing about it is everything you want in it will be in it. It might cost more but it would be perfect for you.

If Microsoft keeps making crappy software and Apple continues to disregard their power users, more people will continue switching to alternatives. Installing an alternative OS was daunting for me in 2010. With help from people on the Ubuntu forums I got through it. Now my HP runs fast without problems and I love it.

Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.

If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.

post #116 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon View Post

Get rid of this glossy piece of iMac dung already.
Jonny can you hear me?

So get a MBP retina and a decent large screen monitor and have a nice day.  That's what I might end up doing.  That way you have a laptop/desktop in one slick unit that EVERYONE with another brand laptop will be drooling over. Yeah, I wish they announced a new iMac too, but i guess we'll have to wait for it or get a MBP solution.

post #117 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Can you do with a 12 core system that they have now?  What is it that you need that the current MacPro can't do? I am just curious.

It is not that it is incapable of any task it is just a poor investment spec-wise since it is two year old kit at full retail price.

 

It really isn't entirely Apple's fault though because Intel is behind schedule. Although the Sandy Bridge Xeons are out, I don't think they support USB 3 or Thunderbolt which would clearly be part of a major refresh. Why would Apple put out a major case and component redesign and leave those two highly desirable Pro features out. The sort of 'new' Mac Pro is adequate if you really need another one in the shop right now, but as a solo freelancer trying to make a decision to buy their first Mac Pro this doesn't look like a great time to buy one from an investment stand point. For me it would have been nice to upgrade to an all new Mac Pro that would last another 5 years, but my current Mac Pro is running just fine so I'll wait. Now that I understand that I wouldn't get TB and USB 3 anyway I can see why they did what they did.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #118 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Ubuntu Linux is getting really easy to install and get working. It comes with many hardware drivers already installed. It's time for me to switch from Ubuntu 10.04 to the latest version. I'm getting a variant called Bodhi when the newest version comes out in July. It will be filled with only the software I want and nothing more. It will be totally customized by me for me. It won't have any of the excess programs that come with Windows or OS X.

If Microsoft and Apple continue angering people nothing really bad will happen to them for a while. They're gigantic. Over time more people will stop buying their stuff. Eventually another player will come along and they'll be in trouble. Ubuntu is already so easy to install now that I think Microsoft will begin suffering in a couple of years. Apple won't be too far behind when people can buy a less expensive HP and put the FREE Ubuntu Linux software on it. Linux doesn't suck anymore.

Doubt it. Linux is still a rounding error on the consumer desktop. Big in servers but for the average non-geek it has no traction whatsoever.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #119 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post

It's amazing how many people who have no interest in the Mac Pro's, feel they should no longer be made for those of us who want one. If we express desires of bells & whistles we like, we're marginalized by those who feel they know more & what is better for us. Some criticize the old design, the handles, the weight. I tell you this, if I had $3000-1 million dollars of my life's work in one, the burglar will have to cut a motorcycle chain & then lug the heavy beast to his getaway vehicle…Its a great design. You know, the iPhone design is a tad dated too. Why not make it into a sweatband design with the speakers just above the ears. Oh, & the airlines, how long do we have to look at the same, stupid shape of a polished aluminum tube. Why not update it into the shape of a modern anvil? The Mac Pro was done right to begin with & saves precious R&D dollars & time to invest on your whims & money making. Its the same discussion with the 17" Mac Pro. Because people don't use it, or can't imagine the need for it, they pontificate & support the elimination of that as a choice for the rest of us.

 

I don't know what Apple has up their sleeve for a MacPro redesign. If they are going to put in Thunderbolt, the case has to redesigned, it might be small but it still has to get some changes.  Maybe they'll make it a rack mount system, I don't know.  For the internal guts, Intel announces new chips and the high end chips don't always ship in massive quantities because of their yield.  In addition, Apple might be waiting for a new graphics card, a new bus design, newly designed cooling system because the new processors run hotter, they might come out with new features they don't want to leak yet because of competitive reasons.  Whatever it is for them to ship a new MacPro that is actually a MAJOR release, there has to be some valid reasoning behind it.  Apple has people internally that use MacPros just like you do and they want the latest and greatest too.  The problem(s) might be with a supplier(s) or maybe a design issue they are trying to resolve that just takes time.  Intel releasing a new chip takes at  least 6 to 10 months sometimes to redesign the motherboard, case, testing, etc. Maybe this time it was delayed more than they want.  I don't think Apple is intentionally delaying it to upset anyone.  They just haven't gotten all of the pieces together to make it happen at the level everyone wants or expects and it obviously needs to be addressed.  If I were Tim Cook, and i knew of this, like he should.  I would flat out make a public statement to the community and let people know that something is coming out and things are taking longer than expected rather than remaining quiet.  Sometimes it is better to address everyone's concerns once and for all and give people the reassurance they need, but it might be something out of their control and it might better for them to keep quiet until they actually have a major product announcement. Either way, I know it sucks to be left in the dark, no one likes that.  But to add conjecture is futile.  

post #120 of 162

The frustrating thing of it all is that I want to upgrade my 2008 iMac.  As a prosumer working with HD and heavy duty files (video and photo) I am in need of an upgrade.  Now, I can wait for a new model (which I have been...) or buy the latest version - doing so means I sell my 4.5 year old imac and purchase an imac that is "new" but over a year old!  Not a chance.

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