iOS 6 Maps turn-by-turn requires iPhone 4S, iPad 2 or later - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


Any iDevice you had on Sunday worked the same way on Monday. You're just upset over the positional good

 

Not at all. The map app is entirely different, and actually lacking things at the moment I had yesterday. And yes, I have the beta. I'm not upset over a positional good. I'm upset I was told iOS 6 gives me a new state of the art map experience with navigation features, which apparently it does not. So really, maybe I don't have iOS 6 at all. I guess I have iOS 5.5. 

 

Quote:

Speaking of getting a grip you say you understand about the Siri situation but you don't understand how turn-by-turn uses a back-end server just like Siri does and probably has a lot more continuous contact with the backend and uses a lot more data per transmission since it's also sending new map data to your device. 

Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection . 

Touche. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilution 

Good idea, rate a product still in Beta that won't be released for another 3 months and you've never actually used.

3 months is not a lot of time to transform worldwide maps from something which is clearly amateurish rubbish into something which can compete with the world leader.

Apple look to have made a colossal mistake in ditching the best maps in the world for no sane reason.

The new 3D function is cool, but currently works for a few cities in the US plus Sydney. The satellite images themselves are very poor in most of the world and often come as black and white, or even extremely pixellated. I really doubt this is going to be fixed until next month. With the lack of street view, this implementation is very poor compared to Google maps. 

on the contrary isn't this a good thing, if Google thinks it can build a better App with Turn-by-Whatever then they are free to build it for 3GS/4 where there is no competition from apple itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


The lack of Street View is my major concern for usability right now. I seldom use it but when I do it's indispensable. I hope Google has a maps app for iOS before too long.

I imagine - and hope - Google will bring out a Maps App - that will continue to work much like the present Maps App. That will be good for Apple too, because if what you say in the rest of your comment (not quoted here) is true then Apple Maps is not truly ready for prime time. It needs to be very close to Google Maps in functionality and usability. I use Navigon and Google Maps intermittently. Very rarely street view. But there can be few annoyances greater than a map which doesn't work well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

The directions, which do offer driving, public, and walking, are all there but the way the blue course line is drawn is wonky in several ways.

That is good to know. I had thought previously it was reported that mass transit schedules was missing. That is something I use quite a bit as that is how I get to and from the office everyday and sometimes my schedule varies so I need to find alternate times. How is the business location search by voice capability within the map? 

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Originally Posted by Captain J 

They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.

This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcorban 

 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

It didn't say it did less than google maps, but that it doesn't work perfectly. Far from it. Too bad because I like the design of the maps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 


Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?

For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.

You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.

I can see why people are frustrated, but the reality is decisions like this normally don't have a negative impact on Apple as most of their user's are anxious to upgrade their devices whenever they can.

Personally, I do not believe whether or not Siri can run on iPhone 4 is relevant here.  Apple has chosen to really go all out with this 3D, Flyover vector-based mapping.  If that is the view used in the turn-by-turn navigation, I would say that performance is very likely an issue.  Maybe if they could disable Flyover and 3D on the iPhone 4 and just let iPhone 4 users have flat-2D maps, but I have no idea what would be involved in making that happen.  Flyover may be too integrated into turn-by-turn to separate the two.  

Here is my main point though...

Remember: Microsoft got sued and labeled a monopoly because it kept forcing software companies out of business by adding features to Windows.  We are now in the "app economy".  Apple HAS to be careful not to tick off app developers by constantly putting them out of business.  If they do, they will end up being sued by developers and in the cross-hairs of the FTC.   By not porting turn-by-turn to iPhone 4 or 3GS, apps like MotionX and Waze will still have a market for several years.  The app store is a HUGE part of Apple's bottom line and they don't want to tick off developers by constantly making apps irrelevant.   At the same time, they cannot stay static and must innovate with new and improved features.   There are very few ways they can accomplish both, so I believe making certain apps available only on newer devices will continue.  And I certainly believe keeping app developers happy is the main reason for doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.

You're referring to the iPhone 3G, and iOS 4 was horrible on it.  Since then, when I hear that a feature won't be supported on an older phone, I just go with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thataveragejoe 

 

The iPhone 4 has 512MB of memory unlike the 3GS and iPad with 256. The CPU is more than a mild overclock as well. The A4, while a Cortex A8 is an entirely different design from it's predecessor in the 3GS.  The only common denominator is the SGX535 GPU.

My mistake, you're right about the memory... It's the retina iPod Touches that got the 256MB A4, not the iPhone 4. However, though the A4 is different silicon and no doubt has some optimizations, I still contend that it's essentially the same CPU at a 200MHz advantage over the one in the 3GS. Yeah, it's probably an exaggeration to call a 30% bump a "mild" overclock but the truth is that little of what's done with these devices is CPU bound. It's all memory, GPU, and in fewer cases, flash speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcorban 

 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

He could easily be referring to the missing Transit directions, which are currently in Maps, used heavily by urbanites, and was handed off to other Apps in the App Store during Apple's keynote yesterday.

iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

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Originally Posted by ckh1272 
iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

Fortunately you don't have to pay for newer hardware to run it.

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Originally Posted by kfury77 

The new maps are TERRIBLE. out of date map coverage, worse UI, poor POIs, no building names, no transit information, no building outlines, no public footpaths - everything is worse. Look at this comparison photo - what would you rather use?
https://twitter.com/corxo/status/212314131590692864/photo/1/large

iOS 6 maps aren't released yet. Its in beta and they have 4-5 months to get it all taken care of. Now Apple's maps does have one thing over Googles - its easier to read because its not so chock full of info. Apple's map also has the same info - but you have to zoom in more. I filed a bug report on this asking for more detail at lower zooms. Have you? If you are a developer you would do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kfury77 

The turn by turn navigation features in iOS 6 are exaggerated- it's really not that good. The google-powered maps app in iOS 5 has traffic (which actually works in Europe unlike iOS 6), routing, directions, alternate routes - all iOS 6 maps does is have the turn directions in a road sign box at the top and adds voice guidance. 

iOS 6 maps support traffic, routing, directions, and alternate routes. In fact it has better alternate routes than Google. So FUD on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensi 

Siri can work on the iPhone 4 as soon as you bypass Apple UDID checks which are preventing you to do so. So it could looks like another disguised yet voluntary device limitation.

Yes, Siri does work, but I believe the real reason they didn't put it on the 4 is because their servers couldn't handle it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by saarek 

So, the iPad 2 will have full map functionality whilst the iPhone 4 that runs the same CPU is out, with the iPhone 3GS you could understand as it's getting pretty long in the tooth but this obviously has nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with milking customers dry.

The CPU is not the same. Do a little fact checking before complaining.

Yeah, giving the user base a FREE OS update is "milking them dry." If Apple was more concerned about squeezing all the revenue out you they could, the OS updates wouldn't be free and iCloud would still have a yearly subscription fee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain J 

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

It's called a product's life cycle. Of course Apple wants people to upgrade. They don't make money giving stuff away for free do they? They want people to EVENTUALLY buy new hardware when they think it is worth it to them. You don't have to if you don't want to. Apple is still supporting a phone that is now 3 years old!!! Name another mobile company that does? Does ICS run on the original Droid?

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why people think is an oddity? Product differentiation has been going on in the CE industry for YEARS. Higher end hardware gets higher end functionality. This has always been the case. Just because its software, doesn't mean Apple is obligated to make it available to everyone. The software (newer features and functionality) is subsidized by the purchase of newer hardware.

Furthermore, no one knows if the software requires specific features of the hardware. I would suspect that the 3D stuff used in the turn-by-turn and fly over are using all the extra GPU cores put into the newer devices.

And lastly, You will still be able to download and use Google Earth if you don't like Apple's Maps. And I'm willing to bet Google releases their own Maps App.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain J 

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

 

Here is an image showing how maps for iPad compares to google earth for iPad, here showing Kyoto. 

I don't get the iPhone 4 problem. When iOS 6 is released, the iPhone 5  will be available, i would assume that the majority of updates to the 5 will be from the 4, not the 4S - certainly I won't be updating. So most users of OS 6 will, after a year, be on the 4s or 5, so nothing to see here. After all with most 2 year contracts you can upgrade for $99 or something like that, for free in the UK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckh1272 

iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

Or they are not being screwed and can indulge themselves in an upgrade 27 months after the 4 came out. 

If you buy any other product on the marketplace (such as a car) and they come out with a newer model with more features the next year, you aren't entitled to that new car or those new features. It is only with computers that we expect everything to be handed down to us for free. For those of you with an iPhone 4 or earlier, you will still have the same iPhone that works just the same that is the reason you bought it in the first place. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitalclips 


My question too!
Also I don't see why an iPhone 4 couldn't handle fly over although I understand not having the Siri features (I think ...). I was going to buy an iPad 3 just for Dictation but as I understand it iPad 2 will gain Dictation in iOS 6, but I may have that wrong ... so much to take in!

I doubt that the iPad 2 will get Siri and system-wide dictation.  However, there is a Dragon Dictation app in the app store that runs on the iPad 2.

I use system-wide dictation often on the iPad 3, and it is much, much more accurate than the Dragon app (or any dictation app I've seen).  It may be that Apple uses its Siri servers to contextualize the text created by Dragon.  If so, it is an easy next step for Apple to enable Siri on the iPad 3.

is the turn by turn functionality going to be available outside of the U.S.? e.g. Canada?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain J 

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

 

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

Strange. Apple scores highest in consumer satisfaction and customer service year after year on nearly every survey conducted. Sometimes by quite a wide margin. 

I'll let you look up this common knowledge for your own enjoyment and edification.

Next time, please include a disclaimer in your post that tells us it's only your anecdotal opinion and shouldn't actually be taken to mean anything more. 

But as someone who has been "using Apple products for 27 years" none of this should be a surprise to you, and furthermore, Apple has always been this way and you've happily consented to it for over 27 years. You've voted with your wallet each time. So you can't have any complaints. 

Apple KNOWS THEIR SH*T. Period. If the feature is not on your phone, there's a reason for it. No, it's not to shaft you, it's to keep the User Experience in line with their standards. The very same standards that have been making them richer than God. You want all those neato-jailbreak options? Then jailbreak your device, install what Apple didn't allow you to have standard, and watch all the glorious lag ensue, if the app is even as functional as it *should* be. Or get an Android device, and do nothing at all to watch the lag. It comes standard. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain J 

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

 

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

Nobody cares how long you've been using Apple products. Some feel the need to point this out as if to legitimize their completely off-base opinion- which remains completely off-base.