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iOS 6 Maps turn-by-turn requires iPhone 4S, iPad 2 or later - Page 3

post #81 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX 

But is that because of the audio receiver tech they added to the A5 chip for compressing the audio for Siri's servers? It's an excuse and easily true but is it the complete truth? I'd think the load from piling on several dozen million more devices at once is a more accurate reason than having slightly better local HW for processing the audio for transmission.

It was the same reason Apple posted when they announced Siri.
post #82 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Any iDevice you had on Sunday worked the same way on Monday. You're just upset over the positional good

 

Not at all. The map app is entirely different, and actually lacking things at the moment I had yesterday. And yes, I have the beta. I'm not upset over a positional good. I'm upset I was told iOS 6 gives me a new state of the art map experience with navigation features, which apparently it does not. So really, maybe I don't have iOS 6 at all. I guess I have iOS 5.5. 

 

Quote:
Speaking of getting a grip you say you understand about the Siri situation but you don't understand how turn-by-turn uses a back-end server just like Siri does and probably has a lot more continuous contact with the backend and uses a lot more data per transmission since it's also sending new map data to your device. 

 

Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection . 

 

 

 

Quote:
How is there such a huge disconnect for you and others?

 

Touche. 

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post #83 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

So not content with cutting the iPad 1 off from software updates despite the fact that it's only 2 years old, Apple are now crippling iOS6 for iPhone 4 users.  

Apple should have just stuck with Google Maps. Then they'd retain Street View, which is an absolutely critical feature, and would have something which actually runs on every device. Perhaps they could have talked Google into porting their Android turn by turn to iOS, as that runs on pretty much any Android device.

This can only be seen in one way - Apple deliberately crippling their own devices to force people to upgrade. Cheap, and nasty.

You might be right about ditching Google Maps too early, and those who will miss it will probably be demanding it's available as an app.

But your last sentence is the dumb interpretation, or the cheap and nasty one. We've been giving you the alternate reason: the data load. Are you just going to ignore that?
post #84 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Good idea, rate a product still in Beta that won't be released for another 3 months and you've never actually used.

3 months is not a lot of time to transform worldwide maps from something which is clearly amateurish rubbish into something which can compete with the world leader.

 

Apple look to have made a colossal mistake in ditching the best maps in the world for no sane reason.

post #85 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Siri was addon feature. Not a replacement of a core app. Again, if a 500Mhz phone with half the memory can run navigation while multitasking over a 144kbps 2G internet connection 3 years ago, why can't it now? Apple's that inept? Google's that far ahead? I'll give you the answer. YOU DON"T KNOW. Frankly you're just another person with an opinion and an internet connection .

This is getting very annoying. Why do keep insisting that Apple's HW cut of point has anything to do with the HW itself? it's been made very clear that the backend can handle only so much traffic. I'm worried that Siri will suffer from turn-by-turn being used excessively causing their data center to be even more bogged down.

And, no!, you did not have turn-by-turn in any previous iOS Maps version so not having it now because you use an older iDevices is not a feature being taken away.

This is a non-issue. Your don't have turn-by-turn now and you won't have it in the future unless you get an iPhone 4S or newer. If you don't like Apple's new Maps app then download some other maps app. i have a feeling Google will jump on this.

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post #86 of 176

The new 3D function is cool, but currently works for a few cities in the US plus Sydney. The satellite images themselves are very poor in most of the world and often come as black and white, or even extremely pixellated. I really doubt this is going to be fixed until next month. With the lack of street view, this implementation is very poor compared to Google maps. 

post #87 of 176

on the contrary isn't this a good thing, if Google thinks it can build a better App with Turn-by-Whatever then they are free to build it for 3GS/4 where there is no competition from apple itself.

post #88 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The lack of Street View is my major concern for usability right now. I seldom use it but when I do it's indispensable. I hope Google has a maps app for iOS before too long.

I imagine - and hope - Google will bring out a Maps App - that will continue to work much like the present Maps App. That will be good for Apple too, because if what you say in the rest of your comment (not quoted here) is true then Apple Maps is not truly ready for prime time. It needs to be very close to Google Maps in functionality and usability. I use Navigon and Google Maps intermittently. Very rarely street view. But there can be few annoyances greater than a map which doesn't work well.

post #89 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The directions, which do offer driving, public, and walking, are all there but the way the blue course line is drawn is wonky in several ways.

That is good to know. I had thought previously it was reported that mass transit schedules was missing. That is something I use quite a bit as that is how I get to and from the office everyday and sometimes my schedule varies so I need to find alternate times. How is the business location search by voice capability within the map? 

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post #90 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. 

 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

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post #91 of 176

Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.

 

This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.

post #92 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

How is the business location search by voice capability within the map? 

Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?

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post #93 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorban View Post

 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

It didn't say it did less than google maps, but that it doesn't work perfectly. Far from it. Too bad because I like the design of the maps.

post #94 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by enjourni View Post

Not having 3D graphics on the 4 may be understandable (horsepower)? But lack of turn by turn is BS. There's no technical reason why the 4 can't do it, heck I do it right now with Waze.

This is just typical apple to screw over older devices for no reason.

Another one. Did you read the thread at all? It's not your sweaty little phone, it's the network it has to connect to.
post #95 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Can you give me some examples you can match against the current Maps app?

For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.

 

You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.


Edited by mstone - 6/12/12 at 10:55am

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post #96 of 176

I can see why people are frustrated, but the reality is decisions like this normally don't have a negative impact on Apple as most of their user's are anxious to upgrade their devices whenever they can.

 

Personally, I do not believe whether or not Siri can run on iPhone 4 is relevant here.  Apple has chosen to really go all out with this 3D, Flyover vector-based mapping.  If that is the view used in the turn-by-turn navigation, I would say that performance is very likely an issue.  Maybe if they could disable Flyover and 3D on the iPhone 4 and just let iPhone 4 users have flat-2D maps, but I have no idea what would be involved in making that happen.  Flyover may be too integrated into turn-by-turn to separate the two.  

 

Here is my main point though...

 

Remember: Microsoft got sued and labeled a monopoly because it kept forcing software companies out of business by adding features to Windows.  We are now in the "app economy".  Apple HAS to be careful not to tick off app developers by constantly putting them out of business.  If they do, they will end up being sued by developers and in the cross-hairs of the FTC.   By not porting turn-by-turn to iPhone 4 or 3GS, apps like MotionX and Waze will still have a market for several years.  The app store is a HUGE part of Apple's bottom line and they don't want to tick off developers by constantly making apps irrelevant.   At the same time, they cannot stay static and must innovate with new and improved features.   There are very few ways they can accomplish both, so I believe making certain apps available only on newer devices will continue.  And I certainly believe keeping app developers happy is the main reason for doing so.

post #97 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Remember when Apple introduced a version of iOS to an older iPhone that made it ver slow for a great many number of users? Remember when people said reason Apple added the update was because they were adding features it couldn't feasibly run so users would be forced to upgrade?
But if Apple doesn't offer a feature to any older device with older HW they are doing it for the same reason of "forcing users to upgrade"? Does that really make sense to suggest that the only way Apple doesn't force people to upgrade is if they never update their HW, SW, or services? I certainly don't think so. But if Apple doesn't update all their stuff at break neck speeds then we hear complaints about how Apple doesn't care about this type of product or this type of user anymore.
I don't think there is anything Apple can do to satisfy the infinitely unsatisfiable.

 

You're referring to the iPhone 3G, and iOS 4 was horrible on it.  Since then, when I hear that a feature won't be supported on an older phone, I just go with it.

post #98 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

 

The iPhone 4 has 512MB of memory unlike the 3GS and iPad with 256. The CPU is more than a mild overclock as well. The A4, while a Cortex A8 is an entirely different design from it's predecessor in the 3GS.  The only common denominator is the SGX535 GPU.

My mistake, you're right about the memory... It's the retina iPod Touches that got the 256MB A4, not the iPhone 4. However, though the A4 is different silicon and no doubt has some optimizations, I still contend that it's essentially the same CPU at a 200MHz advantage over the one in the 3GS. Yeah, it's probably an exaggeration to call a 30% bump a "mild" overclock but the truth is that little of what's done with these devices is CPU bound. It's all memory, GPU, and in fewer cases, flash speed.

post #99 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcorban View Post

 

Please direct me on how to enable turn-by-turn spoken directions and 3D view with the current Google Maps app, because I don't see it.

 

He could easily be referring to the missing Transit directions, which are currently in Maps, used heavily by urbanites, and was handed off to other Apps in the App Store during Apple's keynote yesterday.

post #100 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

For example I use Google app. I speak 'Public Library'. It then shows me the search results. I then click the places icon which brings up a map. By clicking on the map it presents a dialogue to go to the Maps app which launches the current iOS Maps app and drops a pin on the location. By clicking directions, it routes it from my current location.

You can also just speak an address and it usually just goes straight to the map.

This currently is a good replacement for you. While the icons for driving, walking and public are there when i try to use the public transportation option in any city it jumps to a window in the app that is trying to show me routing app on the App Store. It's unfortunately blank and to make matters worse it didn't let me know beforehand that public transportation isn't currently supported. If that is how it works at the GM then that's a problem but for now I'll let it slide.

Another issue is that you can't switch between the three types of transit easily. You have to cancel the route, then choose a different method, and then input the destination again (and the source if it's not your current location, and then click Route. I love the current Maps app that lets me click through each to see which method is more efficient. I hope they change this because that is a step back in UI efficiency.

Speaking the locations and directions into Siri worked very well from the Siri end but it unravels quickly on the app side. It seems like a lot to fix on the front and backends in a few months.

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post #101 of 176

iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

post #102 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckh1272 View Post
iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

 

Fortunately you don't have to pay for newer hardware to run it.

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post #103 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfury77 View Post

The new maps are TERRIBLE. out of date map coverage, worse UI, poor POIs, no building names, no transit information, no building outlines, no public footpaths - everything is worse. Look at this comparison photo - what would you rather use?
https://twitter.com/corxo/status/212314131590692864/photo/1/large

 

iOS 6 maps aren't released yet. Its in beta and they have 4-5 months to get it all taken care of. Now Apple's maps does have one thing over Googles - its easier to read because its not so chock full of info. Apple's map also has the same info - but you have to zoom in more. I filed a bug report on this asking for more detail at lower zooms. Have you? If you are a developer you would do that.

post #104 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfury77 View Post

The turn by turn navigation features in iOS 6 are exaggerated- it's really not that good. The google-powered maps app in iOS 5 has traffic (which actually works in Europe unlike iOS 6), routing, directions, alternate routes - all iOS 6 maps does is have the turn directions in a road sign box at the top and adds voice guidance. 

 

iOS 6 maps support traffic, routing, directions, and alternate routes. In fact it has better alternate routes than Google. So FUD on you.

post #105 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

Siri can work on the iPhone 4 as soon as you bypass Apple UDID checks which are preventing you to do so. So it could looks like another disguised yet voluntary device limitation.

 

Yes, Siri does work, but I believe the real reason they didn't put it on the 4 is because their servers couldn't handle it. 

post #106 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

So, the iPad 2 will have full map functionality whilst the iPhone 4 that runs the same CPU is out, with the iPhone 3GS you could understand as it's getting pretty long in the tooth but this obviously has nothing to do with hardware and everything to do with milking customers dry.

 

The CPU is not the same. Do a little fact checking before complaining.

 

Yeah, giving the user base a FREE OS update is "milking them dry." If Apple was more concerned about squeezing all the revenue out you they could, the OS updates wouldn't be free and iCloud would still have a yearly subscription fee.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

 

It's called a product's life cycle. Of course Apple wants people to upgrade. They don't make money giving stuff away for free do they? They want people to EVENTUALLY buy new hardware when they think it is worth it to them. You don't have to if you don't want to. Apple is still supporting a phone that is now 3 years old!!! Name another mobile company that does? Does ICS run on the original Droid?

 

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why people think is an oddity? Product differentiation has been going on in the CE industry for YEARS. Higher end hardware gets higher end functionality. This has always been the case. Just because its software, doesn't mean Apple is obligated to make it available to everyone. The software (newer features and functionality) is subsidized by the purchase of newer hardware.

 

Furthermore, no one knows if the software requires specific features of the hardware. I would suspect that the 3D stuff used in the turn-by-turn and fly over are using all the extra GPU cores put into the newer devices.

 

And lastly, You will still be able to download and use Google Earth if you don't like Apple's Maps. And I'm willing to bet Google releases their own Maps App.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

 

 

I've been using Apple products for 32 years now and I disagree with you completely.

 

I will say I am a little dismayed that iOS 6 will not run on my original iPad, but oh well. My iPad still works MUCH better than the day I bought it and that's more than I can say for products from other companies. (Ditto on my original AppleTV as well.)

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #107 of 176

Here is an image showing how maps for iPad compares to google earth for iPad, here showing Kyoto. 

 

1339528338298.jpg

post #108 of 176

I don't get the iPhone 4 problem. When iOS 6 is released, the iPhone 5  will be available, i would assume that the majority of updates to the 5 will be from the 4, not the 4S - certainly I won't be updating. So most users of OS 6 will, after a year, be on the 4s or 5, so nothing to see here. After all with most 2 year contracts you can upgrade for $99 or something like that, for free in the UK.

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post #109 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckh1272 View Post

iOS6 is not free if you have to pay for newer hardware to run it, i.e. iPhone 4 users are being screwed.

Or they are not being screwed and can indulge themselves in an upgrade 27 months after the 4 came out. 

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post #110 of 176

If you buy any other product on the marketplace (such as a car) and they come out with a newer model with more features the next year, you aren't entitled to that new car or those new features. It is only with computers that we expect everything to be handed down to us for free. For those of you with an iPhone 4 or earlier, you will still have the same iPhone that works just the same that is the reason you bought it in the first place. 

post #111 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


My question too!
Also I don't see why an iPhone 4 couldn't handle fly over although I understand not having the Siri features (I think ...). I was going to buy an iPad 3 just for Dictation but as I understand it iPad 2 will gain Dictation in iOS 6, but I may have that wrong ... so much to take in!

 

I doubt that the iPad 2 will get Siri and system-wide dictation.  However, there is a Dragon Dictation app in the app store that runs on the iPad 2.

 

I use system-wide dictation often on the iPad 3, and it is much, much more accurate than the Dragon app (or any dictation app I've seen).  It may be that Apple uses its Siri servers to contextualize the text created by Dragon.  If so, it is an easy next step for Apple to enable Siri on the iPad 3.

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post #112 of 176
post #113 of 176

is the turn by turn functionality going to be available outside of the U.S.? e.g. Canada?

post #114 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.


The current Apple Maps app will continue to be available on current systems (iOS 5 and earlier). If you have supported hardware and upgrade to iOS 6 you will lose the old Apple Maps (with the google backend) and get the new Apple Maps app (with a non-Google backend).

No one is forcing you to upgrade. No one is taking your maps app away.

I, too wish Apple would support older devices for Siri and maps but it's a fact of life that technology moves on.
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post #115 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfury77 View Post

The new maps are TERRIBLE. out of date map coverage, worse UI, poor POIs, no building names, no transit information, no building outlines, no public footpaths - everything is worse. Look at this comparison photo - what would you rather use?
https://twitter.com/corxo/status/212314131590692864/photo/1/large

C'mon... You are comparing a one day old developer prerelease app and mature app in use for 5 years.

Further, Apple has at least three months to flesh out the backend database supporting the new maps app.
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post #116 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreiD View Post

You can't simply say turn-by-turn and call it a day. Probably other nav apps from the store use turn by turn but not in the same graphics level or not in the same 3D rendering. Moreover Siri is integrated into turn by turn so there's another resource to call upon and to use (despite the fact that Siri is not available on iPhone 4 and probably will not in the future). 

They don't have the same CPU. Get your facts right before ranting about like crazy

LLLL


Moreover, i completely understand Apple is a profit drive company (indisputable truth) and i agree that sometimes they are over-reaching, but the same discussions appeared,  if everyone remember, when Apple introduced multitasking and people with iPhone 3G complained they didn't get the feature. Apple responded by telling everybody that it was not feasible on the 3G and it would ruin the experience due to the lag. Every complain-tee still dismissed that till jail breakers made it available for them but still the experience sucked. So in the end Apple was right about it and the people that bitched a lot and accused Apple of milking customers were silenced. 

Excellent post!

Also, consider that Apple has always purposefully discontinued support for older hardware technology as it aged. Older OSes continue to provide the support for older technology. Otherwise, Apple's OSes would suffer the fragmentation that is Android or the legacy bloat that is Windows.
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post #117 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

 

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

 

 

Strange. Apple scores highest in consumer satisfaction and customer service year after year on nearly every survey conducted. Sometimes by quite a wide margin. 

 

I'll let you look up this common knowledge for your own enjoyment and edification.

 

Next time, please include a disclaimer in your post that tells us it's only your anecdotal opinion and shouldn't actually be taken to mean anything more. 

 

But as someone who has been "using Apple products for 27 years" none of this should be a surprise to you, and furthermore, Apple has always been this way and you've happily consented to it for over 27 years. You've voted with your wallet each time. So you can't have any complaints. 

 

Apple KNOWS THEIR SH*T. Period. If the feature is not on your phone, there's a reason for it. No, it's not to shaft you, it's to keep the User Experience in line with their standards. The very same standards that have been making them richer than God. You want all those neato-jailbreak options? Then jailbreak your device, install what Apple didn't allow you to have standard, and watch all the glorious lag ensue, if the app is even as functional as it *should* be. Or get an Android device, and do nothing at all to watch the lag. It comes standard. 

post #118 of 176
Seems to me.. This would be a Good time for google to offer free turn by turn for iphone 4 users if apple allows them to release maps as a standalone app. Just might generate some goodwill and make those same people keep google maps when they upgrade rather then bother with the apple maps program.

I can see limiting the 3GS but limiting the turn by turn on the 4 is just silly.
post #119 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post


This has nothing to do with that. In this case we are talking about a functionality that we know many other devices (including standalone) with much less specs run well. In this case, it doesn't pass muster and people should hold Apple accountable to that standard. 

So, let's just suppose that Apple made a "business decision" not to support these apps on the older hardware. As a customer and a shareholder, I support that decision!
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post #120 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

This just seems like more Apple crap designed to force users to upgrade, They remove Google Maps and replace it with their own partially functional replacement. What a load of crap. Evidence by Siri working on jailbroken iPhone 4.

 

Apple's products may be lightyears ahead of where they were 15 years ago, but their customer service/treatment is lightyears behind. And this is from someone who has been using Apple products for over 27 years.

 

Nobody cares how long you've been using Apple products. Some feel the need to point this out as if to legitimize their completely off-base opinion- which remains completely off-base. 

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