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Tim Cook confirms updated Mac Pro coming in 2013 - Page 3

post #81 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

HEY TIM.............WHAT ABOUT A 17" MACBOOK PRO????

Maybe that will be there too. They didn't say the 17" was totally dead did they?   They might have a BIG announcement with the MacPro, iMac and whatever else they introduce. I just hope they pull out some stops on this next refresh.  They kind of need to at this point.

post #82 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Some day someone stating that Apple is DOOMED will be correct.

 

That day isn't today.

 

But he's right...Apple doesn't care about servers anymore.  Microsoft does a FAR better job than Apple can.  As Tim states, they prefer to concentrate on areas where they can do better than the industry leader.  So I would expect, based on what Tim stated at D10, that they're going to make sure that OSX is the best enterprises CLIENT and not that OSX is the best enterprise server.

 

So that blog post was whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Apple is teh Doomed for the umpteenth time. 

Servers?  HP, Oracle/Sun, IBM and others do servers that DON'T have Windows on it, so a LOT of these servers are actually running, AIX, Solaris, HP UX, or Red Hat Linux, so Microsoft also gets hammered from at least 4 flavors of Unix on the Server side.  Microsoft is milking Windows, Office, some server software and XBox.

post #83 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

That's exactly what he's talking about. Executives talking about future models before they're out. This is a first for Apple. Ever. 

 

I don't like it at all.

 

Why don't you like it?

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post #84 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Well this is going to be fun.

 

Fuelling an entire year of speculation and rumours. So much for 'doubling down on secrecy'.

 

Or not. After all Apple is a business and they run on a Fiscal Calendar so 2013 for them starts Oct 1, 2012. And he didn't say "a year from now" so they could have this new Mac Pro ready in Oct for all we know. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #85 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegurgitatedCoprolite View Post

There are some who believe Apple is "freezing the market" by making the announcement of new MPs and iMacs for next year. 

 

The iPad and iPhone have zero to do with this. 

 

They can do it because not everyone reads the blogs and will see this info. So they will buy when they need a computer period. 

 

Oh and he didn't say iMacs. just Pros. We could have new iMacs next week. that said I think if they come any time this summer it will be at the same time as Mountain Lion. and it will either be a basic spec bump on all or perhaps a spec bump on the 21 inch and basic 27 with the top line i7 being the kick ass slimmer, no ODD, retina display type model

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #86 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
Why don't you like it?

 

For the common sense reasons Apple has never done this in the past: free press and actually selling products.

 

I'm going to say it, even though everyone'll just laugh and dismiss it: Osborne Effect.

 

That's what it is. I don't care how old the computers are already, I don't care how much money they make from iDevices. This is a bad idea.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #87 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

 Aperture and Final Cut received updates purely to promote the new retina MBP rather than to add new features.


 

 

Aperture got the new feature of the merged library option. Which is likely the only new feature it can get until Mountain Lion is released. We'll very likely seem a few more bits and pieces after that. Same with Final Cut, iLife and iWork

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #88 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Yeah, the [arguably] best multicam implementation out there running full bore on a laptop... And displaying a full 1080p video running in the upper right corner of the screen

 

I had not heard about that. Awesome. now give me that 30 inch Retina slim iMac so I can really rock the multi cam. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #89 of 335
The pc tower has fundamentally been unchanged since it came, like 25 years ago or so. Sure, different technologies has come and gone, but basically it's computing power and expansion that defines the pc tower, isn't it? I think Apple is feeling the urge and need to redefine what a professional work station will be in the future. Perhaps it's just a box full of processors that you can hook up to any mac to?
post #90 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

For the common sense reasons Apple has never done this in the past: free press and actually selling products.

 

I'm going to say it, even though everyone'll just laugh and dismiss it: Osborne Effect.

 

That's what it is. I don't care how old the computers are already, I don't care how much money they make from iDevices. This is a bad idea.

 

I'd argue that Tim's admission will not have the Osborne Effect, for the simple reason that buyers already know that the current product is not new. If they were waiting for a "new" Mac Pro, they aren't going to buy the current Mac Pro anyway, regardless of what Tim says. I mean, what else should Tim say? "No, we will not rev the Mac Pro, ever again so if you intend to buy one, no time like the present"?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #91 of 335
I didn't read through all the posts- but it's nice to see the email. What's even better is all the forum members making fun of the Facebook group when they started- and saying it was pointless. In the meantime, those same members who crap on someone who is actually trying to get his voice heard through some medium gets bashed by guys who never make an effort outside of a post on a forum (like me).

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #92 of 335

This is the Dell Copper, an ARM based server.  Maybe Apple is thinking along these lines, but with a big wad of A5s or the like.  

Okay, maybe not, but it would be interesting.

 5807.Dell_2D00_Copper_5F00_577A282F.jpg

post #93 of 335

I imagine that Apple takes a little more time when developing the  HW & SW for the pro-user market, hence no comments in the public space and the longer wait for the new MacPro perhaps. It will be interesting to see what they do with it.

post #94 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

Servers?  HP, Oracle/Sun, IBM and others do servers that DON'T have Windows on it, so a LOT of these servers are actually running, AIX, Solaris, HP UX, or Red Hat Linux, so Microsoft also gets hammered from at least 4 flavors of Unix on the Server side.  Microsoft is milking Windows, Office, some server software and XBox.

 

So what.  AIX and HPUX are essentially dead due to Linux.  Solaris is half dead.  And while linux and unix runs web servers and databases the enterprise runs on Exchange, Active Directory, Sharepoint and Win Server.

post #95 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Osborne Effect.

I don't think that really applies in this case because the timeframe he mentioned was so far in the future. All it really did was restore people's normal assumption that it would eventually be updated, which they had begun to lose following Monday's speed bump/price cut.

 

Apple was possibly taken by surprise by the level of negative reaction and decided on an emergency fix, I doubt it's a new policy.

post #96 of 335

Whoa, this Cook guy is quite a tool.  He's pushing a laptop as a solution for pros who are waiting for a Mac Pro?  And boy, Apple is REALLY comitted to pro users, and they're working on a REALLY great pro desktop!  That's REALLY swell!

 

Apple REALLY stepped in it with this Mac Pro update.  REALLY!

post #97 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidmaven View Post

alright, since Nvidia graphics are back (in the MBP Retina Display), let's say that "insanely great" could include options for Quadro 5000 & 6000 (yes, means a beefier power supply) and how about a 4k Cinema Display (DP v1.2 supports 4k x 2k resolution) with HDMI and TOSlink out (for passing embedded 5.1/7.1 audio)?

Obviously, if we talk about 2013, the Ivy Bridge "tick+" has come and gone and the ensuing tock should be in full swing.  PCIe 3.0 mobos are plentiful, RAM that's faster than 1600MHz, etc.
next would come the leapfrog bits: 12Gb/S SAS, SSD caching on the mobo, and rear-removable PSU (js, rackmount form factor is assumed)
AT LEAST one additional x32 slot (the PCIe 3 equivalent of x16) for that expansion chassis, with total bandwidth exceeding 80 lanes, so those 3x Thunderbolt ports can coexist

then comes NIC - 10GbE should have come down, potentially allowing for a pair of NICs  (maybe optical implementation is an option…)

then, the piece de resistance: for years, the CPU modules in Mac Pro towers have been modular.  Let us start with a 16-core and swap in 2x 12-core procs when they become available!  The annual spend would actually increase, serviceability wouldn't be adversely affected - who knows, we might even keep parts on the shelf!

I'm not coming from IT - I'm coming from enabling and supporting creative types, who have, for 25 years and more, kept returning to Apple to pay the premium price, but have felt all but abandoned in a sea of iOS device frenzy. We like the little guys, but come on - that we can make a living making content that's just as likely to show up on Pirate Bay or DRM-less audio sites, as it is to be licensed for an ad or a film, is a testament to our tenacity.  Show us some love in the tools we rely on, and "insanely great" will continue to spring from Mac users, not just Mac makers.

 Thanks for dropping the dime, Tim!  it's a breath of fresh air…

They're probably saving the complete redesign for "Haswell", Intel's next-generation 14nm "Tock". I was hoping for a Cinema/Thunderbolt Display (or iMac) with Retina-ish resolution, too, and both DP 1.2 and HDMI 1.4, along with even the integrated Intel HD 4000 graphics all support at least 4Kx2K.

There are also quite a few Pro users that I've seen comment on waiting for the 14nm Haswell chip, but I do agree that this so-called upgrade to the Mac Pro was a joke, if not a slap in the face. In 2012, no USB 3.0, no Thunderbolt, no eSATA, no PCIe 3 or even SATA rev. 3.0 (6Gbps) support, which had arrived with Sandy Bridge a year and a half ago, is pretty lame, especially for your "Pro" line.

On the other hand, that's what happens when a mere 13% of your company gets its revenue from Macs, and a whopping 75% customers of those 13% are notebook users, it makes perfect sense to upgrade your MacBook line before anything else.

(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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(Mid-2012) 15.4" MacBook Pro w/ IPS Retina Display | Quad Core i7-3720QM 2.6GHz / 3.6GHz Max. Turbo | 16GB DDR3-1600MHz RAM | 256GB Samsung 830 SSD-based NAND Flash ETA 9/5

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post #98 of 335

It depends on what you do with it. For a lot of things (like graphic design), you need a certain magnification. It's fine to get an entire page on a 15" screen (as opposed to a 17"), but it may be too small to design well. Of course a laptop isn't the best choice for graphic design, but for some people it fits their life (as a hobby, for instance).

 

For other things, it may depend more on your eyesight - what size type is comfortable, and if the smaller size creates strain. A 15" is fine for me for most things, but not with the higher resolution option that Apple offers - it makes the type too small to be comfortable..

post #99 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I agree!
How about modular boxes daisy chained together with thunderbolt and/or fiber optics...
Separate boxes with: RAM/CPUs; SSDs; GPUs; HDD RAIDS... mix or match these as needed to address current needs.
Apple already has software to manage this distributed computing system


Exactly what I see coming as well!

 

So if you "pros" can't be patient for another 6-7 months, go ahead... build that "killer PC box" for $3-4k... and get ready to trash it when you see the next "Insanely Great™" Pro solution from Apple.... or

 

Be Patient... it's a virtue :)

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #100 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedude View Post

Mac Pro fans scare me.

 

can you please explain to me what the current Mac Pro can't do for you? i use a Mac mini and i'm super happy with it.However, i understand many professionals like designers want something more powerful than a mini or Macbook Pro but all this madness why the Mac Pro wasn't updated i don't get.


In 2010, the Mac Pro cost 3x times as much as MBP and was 3x faster. Today, it still costs 3x as much but is only 1.3x faster. You see the problem? In 2010 if you needed expansion, you paid a lot but also got a lot of speed with it. Today, if you need expansion you still pay a lot, but you don't get a lot of extra speed with it.  In terms of value for money, expansion capabilities has become much more expensive.

post #101 of 335

So, what happened to Apple's famous wall of secrecy if even the CEO is now commenting on future models? Such a change isn't good for the mystique and marketing fervour Apple normally generates with a series of rumours; giving it to us straight not only destroys all that, it also gives competitors a view into what they need to do..

post #102 of 335

So really its a three year wait for a new system.  Seems like many will jump ship and rightfully so.  Apple(Tim) dropped the ball on this and thats sad. At the very least they should have added USB3 and thunderbolt.  Both technologies have been out for over a year and this would at least allowed new buyers to get something they didn't have before.  There is absolutely nothing "new" about the update Monday.  The lack of mention at WWDC is nothing more than shameful Tim skulking and shirking with silence.  How embarrassing!  Be a man tim, address the issues and tell your loyal customers what they need to hear.  As a mac pro user for over a decade this is the last one I will ever buy.  The way Apple has treated its most spendy and professional customers is a disgrace.  Wait wait and wait again.  Good by Mac Pro!

post #103 of 335

I see the trolls are out in force...

post #104 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

For the common sense reasons Apple has never done this in the past: free press and actually selling products.

I'm going to say it, even though everyone'll just laugh and dismiss it: Osborne Effect.

That's what it is. I don't care how old the computers are already, I don't care how much money they make from iDevices. This is a bad idea.

Actually, it might have an anti-Osborne effect.

Current Mac Pro users might be considering switching to Windows, but if there's something on the horizon, they might decide that it's worth holding on to their existing Mac Pros for another year to see what happens. If there's no future for the Mac Pro, might as well switch today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Some day someone stating that Apple is DOOMED will be correct.

That day isn't today.

But he's right...Apple doesn't care about servers anymore.  Microsoft does a FAR better job than Apple can.  As Tim states, they prefer to concentrate on areas where they can do better than the industry leader.  So I would expect, based on what Tim stated at D10, that they're going to make sure that OSX is the best enterprises CLIENT and not that OSX is the best enterprise server.

So that blog post was whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Apple is teh Doomed for the umpteenth time. 

I don't see that Microsoft does a "FAR better job" than Apple in servers. OS X Server is actually a very solid, robust, reliable server. And when you look at licensing costs, it's far less expensive than Windows, at least if you're talking about a lot of clients. While Windows server does have some advantages, most of them are simply "this is what users are familiar with" rather than "this is a better way to do it".

The real difference is that HP, IBM, etc have invested more heavily in server HARDWARE and Apple doesn't have competitive Enterprise server hardware. At the workstation level (or even the departmental server level), OS X is quite capable.
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post #105 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

 

Or not. After all Apple is a business and they run on a Fiscal Calendar so 2013 for them starts Oct 1, 2012. And he didn't say "a year from now" so they could have this new Mac Pro ready in Oct for all we know. 

He said 2013.  Late 2013.  That's not October 1, 2012.

 

The updated mac pro will come out right after the G5 powerbook and a new Cube.

post #106 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Some day someone stating that Apple is DOOMED will be correct.

 

That day isn't today.

 

But he's right...Apple doesn't care about servers anymore.  Microsoft does a FAR better job than Apple can.  As Tim states, they prefer to concentrate on areas where they can do better than the industry leader.  So I would expect, based on what Tim stated at D10, that they're going to make sure that OSX is the best enterprises CLIENT and not that OSX is the best enterprise server.

 

So that blog post was whine whine whine, blah blah blah, Apple is teh Doomed for the umpteenth time. 


If you consistently concentrate on areas where you can do better than industry leaders, slowly you will find yourself doing less and less over time, until your business model becomes unsustainable (it can't support the R&D needed to be good at anything).

 

Apple is already far behind their former self, where I could buy hardware/software/update from them and be sure it will work. These days that is no longer true.

Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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post #107 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post
Actually, it might have an anti-Osborne effect.
Current Mac Pro users might be considering switching to Windows, but if there's something on the horizon, they might decide that it's worth holding on to their existing Mac Pros for another year to see what happens.

 

I think you're giving those people too much credit. For people who are willing to wait months to make sure their purchases are of the right hardware, hardware that they'll use daily for years upon years, every single one of them sure seems incredibly fickle and willing to jump ship because the gas station across the street is handing out free balloons and hot dogs.

 

But your thought is certainly interesting. You give them more credit than I do, and hopefully you're right.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #108 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Miller View Post

I'm not sure why (most) everyone here is assuming that the "something really great" Cook is hinting at will look anything like an existing Mac Pro.   If all they wanted to do was to build a newer Mac Pro, there's no reason for that to take a year and a half to put together.  Meanwhile, the market for Mac Pros is clearly declining (I have one and love it, by the way -- no hating here!) and, if I were Cook, I'd be looking for a way to provide lots of computing cycles to my high-end customers, but in a way that might also pay off for other customers in other ways.

 

Perhaps give a Mac Mini a bigger processor, an SSD drive, and a Thunderbolt interface, and then let people hook together as many as they need?  Two for my home server, ten for my video rendering box at work.  Maybe open up Apple's cloud service so that I can offload compute-intensive jobs in a way that seems transparent/invisible?  There are lots of ways to give people lots of computing cycles other than to stick a bunch of stuff in a big box under their desk.

 

"Think different", remember? :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I agree!
How about modular boxes daisy chained together with thunderbolt and/or fiber optics...
Separate boxes with: RAM/CPUs; SSDs; GPUs; HDD RAIDS... mix or match these as needed to address current needs.
Apple already has software to manage this distributed computing system

 

 

 

Like it.

 

I have no experience with true rack systems, but they could probably come up with something that would fit one of those, or just a simple home stack, one atop the other.  I've often tinkered with this idea since buying a LaCie hard drive system a couple of years ago they had a simple rack, and after seeing all the form-fitting accessories for the Mac mini.

 

This way, they would cover a large number of customers' needs: home, small office, big company.  

 

A few years ago didn't some university link 1000 MacPros together into a super computer?

 

My current set-up is a main iMac with another iMac off to the side for use when outputting videos; I split the jobs between the two.  I use Remote Desktop to operate the second iMac and have no need for a display on it and would be very happy if it could actually fit on a bookshelf.  I tried this with a Mac mini but it took ages to output anything and got super hot so I went with the iMac.  

 

The new iMac is  27" with SSD.  It replaced a MacPro with a 23" display that was seven years old and fading.  A slight step down, but cost, screen size and the SSD have made it a fantastic purchase.  Replacing the MacPro with a new MacPro and display would have been more expensive and it didn't have Thunderbolt.  Since I upgraded my external drives to TB, I finally tossed my last FW drive and cable.  

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #109 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


This new forum system can't quote properly at all.
What i was going to respond to is what the Mac Pro replacement will look like. I think you are a bit negative here in describing it as a Mac Mini as I'm really hoping for more. Note I said hoping, I've lost confidence that Apple has really good plans for the desktop.
I do expect a dramatic change in size for the pro replacement. If they put half as much effort into it that they put into the retina Laptop it could be one hell of a machine. That is if they keep an eye on the ball and truly design a machine for professional usage. There is a real and justified fear that they don't grasp professional needs anymore. Of course most professionals can't see beyond their own needs so this is no surprise. What they do need to do is to make sure they end up with a machine that appeals to a wide array of users.

Apple is clearly going after the consumer market.

 

Their brand new "high end" laptop lacks an Ethernet port, lacks and optical drive, and it lacks expandability (even the RAM is soldered on).  Of course, it does score well on the important metrics: it's light weight, looks great, and has a gorgeous screen.

 

A lot of people are assuming that Apple has to come out with a product for the high end professional.  I see nothing to back this up.  If Apple never sold another High end machine again, it wouldn't have a noticeable affect on profits.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac pro replacement was an iPad with a faster multi-core processor, more memory, and a non-mirrored HDMI output for a second screen.  Storage will be in Apple's iCloud.  By next year, the iPad's processor will be more than fast enough for video editing.  

 

If you think about it, such an arrangement would be more than enough power for 99% of users.  There's no need for Apple to go after that extra 1%.  Apple is no longer a small company trying to carve out a niche for survival.  Apple is a very large company, selling to the masses, leaving the smaller niche markets for others.

 

 

Most Mac Pro buyers are either interested in raw power, or expandability.   SSD drives give the appearance of raw power, and Apple clearly isn't interested in expandability (the new high end laptop requires a proprietary screwdriver to open, and the batteries are glued into the case).

post #110 of 335

Here is a thought and maybe someone with real experience can validate it.  Apple has XGrid technology and I seem to remember some people actually deploying it to get better rendering times with things like Final Cut Pro, so while people might be waiting for these new MacPro systems, they might want to investigate deploying XGrid technology by adding more systems to the network to assist in rendering times so that there is a solution instead of always having to wait for a new processor refresh.  Just a thought.

 

Anyone successfully doing this that can share information as to the validity of this technology?

post #111 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfryd View Post

Apple is clearly going after the consumer market.

 

Their brand new "high end" laptop lacks an Ethernet port, lacks and optical drive, and it lacks expandability (even the RAM is soldered on).  Of course, it does score well on the important metrics: it's light weight, looks great, and has a gorgeous screen.

 

Ethernet via TB.  Optical Drive via USB3.  Not so hard.

 

 

16GB 204-pin SODIMM DDR 3 for Early 2011 MBP - $159.99 from crucial

16GB upgrade in Retina MBP $200

 

If you want to max your ram it's not a big cost delta.  I wish you could go to 32GB.

 

The expandability in the new Retina MBP is unparalleled.

 

The retina screen allows 1080p editing at full res.

 

Quote:

A lot of people are assuming that Apple has to come out with a product for the high end professional.  I see nothing to back this up.  If Apple never sold another High end machine again, it wouldn't have a noticeable affect on profits.

 

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mac pro replacement was an iPad with a faster multi-core processor, more memory, and a non-mirrored HDMI output for a second screen.  Storage will be in Apple's iCloud.  By next year, the iPad's processor will be more than fast enough for video editing.  

 

 

Fairly poor trolling.  However, if you can have an semi-effective 4K workflow on a 13" MBA then yes, Pro requirements can be met with consumer grade laptops...if you add on around $10-$15K worth of add-on gear.

 

 

Quote:

If you think about it, such an arrangement would be more than enough power for 99% of users.  There's no need for Apple to go after that extra 1%.  Apple is no longer a small company trying to carve out a niche for survival.  Apple is a very large company, selling to the masses, leaving the smaller niche markets for others.

 

Most Mac Pro buyers are either interested in raw power, or expandability.   SSD drives give the appearance of raw power, and Apple clearly isn't interested in expandability (the new high end laptop requires a proprietary screwdriver to open, and the batteries are glued into the case).

 

This MBP has more expandability than ever available before since it has TWO TB ports.  That's huge.  Much better than one TB and the Expresscard in the older MBP 17".

post #112 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Like it.

 

Hate it.  While TB makes even the MBA a contender for mobile workflows it's too slow to connect the pieces that would compose a Mac Pro.  

 

4 PCIe lanes for 2 channel 10Gbps bi-directional is a lot slower than 16 PCIe lanes in a slot.  You want the GPU and CPU in the same chassis on the same backplane.  You want any device that uses 8 lanes (like the Red Rocket) in the same chassis on the same backplane.  At this point you're looking at a tower again.  You might as well stick the boot drive in there too.

post #113 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I don't see that Microsoft does a "FAR better job" than Apple in servers. OS X Server is actually a very solid, robust, reliable server. And when you look at licensing costs, it's far less expensive than Windows, at least if you're talking about a lot of clients. While Windows server does have some advantages, most of them are simply "this is what users are familiar with" rather than "this is a better way to do it".

 

Really? OS X server can provide the same level of service as Active Directory?  Nice.  The mail server does everything that Exchange can do?  Cool.  At the enterprise level?  Right.

 

 

Quote:
The real difference is that HP, IBM, etc have invested more heavily in server HARDWARE and Apple doesn't have competitive Enterprise server hardware. At the workstation level (or even the departmental server level), OS X is quite capable.

 

If the department is small enough perhaps.  At best Apple servers are really only SOHO and small business capable.

post #114 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Ethernet via TB.  Optical Drive via USB3.  Not so hard.

 

 

16GB 204-pin SODIMM DDR 3 for Early 2011 MBP - $159.99 from crucial

16GB upgrade in Retina MBP $200

 

If you want to max your ram it's not a big cost delta.  I wish you could go to 32GB.

 

The expandability in the new Retina MBP is unparalleled.

 

The retina screen allows 1080p editing at full res.

 

 

Fairly poor trolling.  However, if you can have an semi-effective 4K workflow on a 13" MBA then yes, Pro requirements can be met with consumer grade laptops...if you add on around $10-$15K worth of add-on gear.

 

 

 

This MBP has more expandability than ever available before since it has TWO TB ports.  That's huge.  Much better than one TB and the Expresscard in the older MBP 17".

 

You seem to agree with Apple that Pros don't need internal expandability, and that the external expandability of the new Mac Book Pro is sufficient.

 

While the new Mac Book Pro may be more expandable than the old, it is certainly different.  if you need ethernet, an optical drive, rotating media, or an Expresscard, then the new is far less convenient than the old.  I for one, am glad that everything I need is internal to my 17" Mac Book Pro, and I don't have to carry around lots of extras, and spend a few minutes setting up every time I need to work.

 

The expandability of the new Mac Book Pro is certainly less than the expandability of the Mac Pro.  The Mac Pro can handle multiple high end video cards (each better than the Mac Book Pro's built in video).  The internal expansion slots of the Mac Pro have far more bandwidth than two Thunderbolt ports.  You and Apple seem to think that Thunderbolt is enough, some disagree.

 

Remember, Apple's history is not to give people what they want.  it is to give people what Apple think's they need.  Apple is also very aggressive about shutting off support for old technology in an effort to boost acceptance of new technology.

post #115 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by vidmaven View Post

alright, since Nvidia graphics are back (in the MBP Retina Display), let's say that "insanely great" could include options for Quadro 5000 & 6000 (yes, means a beefier power supply) and how about a 4k Cinema Display (DP v1.2 supports 4k x 2k resolution) with HDMI and TOSlink out (for passing embedded 5.1/7.1 audio)?

 

Obviously, if we talk about 2013, the Ivy Bridge "tick+" has come and gone and the ensuing tock should be in full swing.  PCIe 3.0 mobos are plentiful, RAM that's faster than 1600MHz, etc.

next would come the leapfrog bits: 12Gb/S SAS, SSD caching on the mobo, and rear-removable PSU (js, rackmount form factor is assumed)

AT LEAST one additional x32 slot (the PCIe 3 equivalent of x16) for that expansion chassis, with total bandwidth exceeding 80 lanes, so those 3x Thunderbolt ports can coexist

 

then comes NIC - 10GbE should have come down, potentially allowing for a pair of NICs  (maybe optical implementation is an option…)

 

then, the piece de resistance: for years, the CPU modules in Mac Pro towers have been modular.  Let us start with a 16-core and swap in 2x 12-core procs when they become available!  The annual spend would actually increase, serviceability wouldn't be adversely affected - who knows, we might even keep parts on the shelf!

 

I'm not coming from IT - I'm coming from enabling and supporting creative types, who have, for 25 years and more, kept returning to Apple to pay the premium price, but have felt all but abandoned in a sea of iOS device frenzy. We like the little guys, but come on - that we can make a living making content that's just as likely to show up on Pirate Bay or DRM-less audio sites, as it is to be licensed for an ad or a film, is a testament to our tenacity.  Show us some love in the tools we rely on, and "insanely great" will continue to spring from Mac users, not just Mac makers.

 

 Thanks for dropping the dime, Tim!  it's a breath of fresh air…

The cpus weren't modular to facilitate upgrades (at least not in the past decade). They were modular because at the top end, those parts were incredibly expensive. You wouldn't want to replace both cpus due to the failure of a logic board component, especially on warranty servicing. You do know that PCI lanes are now dependent on the cpu package right? This means with the dual cpu package model, Apple has more addressable lanes. If it's close they could always oversubscribe much like crossfire on consumer boxes. Last thing is that Ivy Bridge E is still scheduled for 2013. If they drop it, that is a different story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Resolution. 

 

Show me a 24-inch display with 1920x1200 resolution, and then show me a 27-inch display with 1920x1080. 

 

I'll be taking the 24-inch display. The 27-incher in the example above, for desktop work, will have a physically bigger display, but you'll end up seeing *less* of your work. What you *do* see will just look bigger. You won't actually see more. So all that extra real estate you perceive will be useless. 

 

Resolution is everything (until you're getting a little too small physically.) So I'll be taking a 15-inch MBP that has a higher res over a 17-inch MBP that has a lower res. Very happy to sacrifice two physical inches for bigger resolution. 

Quite often ui elements do make a difference here. In the case of vector graphics and some other things, being able to display somewhat to scale can be an advantage. Beyond that sometimes it's just helpful to see things big given the little quirks of computer ergonomics. If we had better precision in terms of control, that would be less of an issue, but I can hit a target on paper with better accuracy than one of equivalent size via cursor. Tablets make this a bit easier as you lack the disconnect and mapping quirks of relative position on a display.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

What do you mean it is pretty obvious that the petition was a waste of time.    Unless you call this "new" Mac Pro the type of machine Mac Pro users where expecting.

I would agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The timeframe of late 2013 makes me think this will be the big overhaul. While Ivy Bridge Xeons would be due at that point, I really don't think it would be wise of Intel to bother with Ivy Bridge Xeons. They have 22nm already so they might as well jump right to the Haswell architecture.
10-core/20-thread single CPU, 8" Cube design, 512GB SSD blade, 3x platter bays, fast GPU only upgradable from Apple using HSA architecture, 6x Thunderbolt ports 20Gbps each, 4x RAM slots (up to 64GB RAM), Thunderbolt daisy-chaining for compute sharing CPUs and GPUs.
No way they'd wait 3 years and build another giant box.

Assuming we're talking about the same socket type and not the low power Xeons or consumer cpus, Haswell isn't much of a guarantee for 2013. Ivy Bridge E speculations have been as late at the second half. I wouldn't say only upgradeable from Apple. If they go that route, you're looking at one directly on the logic board ordered at time of purchase. I disagree with the 8" cube. That just imposes a lot of design limitations if they wish to address Xeons. Now regarding Intel, are you suggesting that dropping Ivy Bridge might actually allow them to push the Haswell version out next year while accounting for any hiccups in implementation. This round stepping issues and messed up SATA pushed it back immensely. Even when the last mac pro update came out in 2010, Sandy Bridge E was scheduled for Q3-Q4. We had a later rumor that stepping problems pushed it back further.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Your points are very valid.   However the issue with the GPU is more complicated I'm actually expecting the next machines to have the GPU integrated right on the motherboard.   It is the only way to move technology and performance foreword.   We can only hope that the GU isn't to dated.

 

By the way form the software development standpoint having a fixed GPU for a specific model is a huge advantage.   It means time spent on optimization is less likely to got to waste.

The thing I dislike with this trend is that you end up with increasingly expensive trash logic boards where expensive devices continue becoming more and more disposable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

This is the Dell Copper, an ARM based server.  Maybe Apple is thinking along these lines, but with a big wad of A5s or the like.  

Okay, maybe not, but it would be interesting.

 5807.Dell_2D00_Copper_5F00_577A282F.jpg

There's a difference between a workstation and server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Exactly what I see coming as well!

 

So if you "pros" can't be patient for another 6-7 months, go ahead... build that "killer PC box" for $3-4k... and get ready to trash it when you see the next "Insanely Great™" Pro solution from Apple.... or

 

Be Patient... it's a virtue :)

What's the point in the silly chest beating? A rig doesn't become trash because the new thing looks shiny. Further you should consider that if they're using it for work, they probably can't put it into service on day one if some of their applications require bug fixes and testing with the new hardware. It's very simple. Current rig is choking on the workload = can't wait. Current rig is okay but you're concerned that it won't last another software generation = can probably wait. It's really silly that they couldn't take a similar design approach to just get a current hardware generation. Much of the current rig is from 2009, and Intel hiccuped with Sandy Bridge E giving them extra time to make up their minds.

post #116 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

So what.  AIX and HPUX are essentially dead due to Linux.  Solaris is half dead.  And while linux and unix runs web servers and databases the enterprise runs on Exchange, Active Directory, Sharepoint and Win Server.

Yeah, I know and there is the workstation market which the MacPro goes after in terms of mostly FCP, ProTools, etc. Microsoft is still getting hammered by all directions.

post #117 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm View Post

The cpus weren't modular to facilitate upgrades (at least not in the past decade). They were modular because at the top end, those parts were incredibly expensive. You wouldn't want to replace both cpus due to the failure of a logic board component, especially on warranty servicing. You do know that PCI lanes are now dependent on the cpu package right? This means with the dual cpu package model, Apple has more addressable lanes. If it's close they could always oversubscribe much like crossfire on consumer boxes. Last thing is that Ivy Bridge E is still scheduled for 2013. If they drop it, that is a different story.

Quite often ui elements do make a difference here. In the case of vector graphics and some other things, being able to display somewhat to scale can be an advantage. Beyond that sometimes it's just helpful to see things big given the little quirks of computer ergonomics. If we had better precision in terms of control, that would be less of an issue, but I can hit a target on paper with better accuracy than one of equivalent size via cursor. Tablets make this a bit easier as you lack the disconnect and mapping quirks of relative position on a display.

 

I would agree.

Assuming we're talking about the same socket type and not the low power Xeons or consumer cpus, Haswell isn't much of a guarantee for 2013. Ivy Bridge E speculations have been as late at the second half. I wouldn't say only upgradeable from Apple. If they go that route, you're looking at one directly on the logic board ordered at time of purchase. I disagree with the 8" cube. That just imposes a lot of design limitations if they wish to address Xeons. Now regarding Intel, are you suggesting that dropping Ivy Bridge might actually allow them to push the Haswell version out next year while accounting for any hiccups in implementation. This round stepping issues and messed up SATA pushed it back immensely. Even when the last mac pro update came out in 2010, Sandy Bridge E was scheduled for Q3-Q4. We had a later rumor that stepping problems pushed it back further.

 

 

The thing I dislike with this trend is that you end up with increasingly expensive trash logic boards where expensive devices continue becoming more and more disposable.

There's a difference between a workstation and server.

What's the point in the silly chest beating? A rig doesn't become trash because the new thing looks shiny. Further you should consider that if they're using it for work, they probably can't put it into service on day one if some of their applications require bug fixes and testing with the new hardware. It's very simple. Current rig is choking on the workload = can't wait. Current rig is okay but you're concerned that it won't last another software generation = can probably wait. It's really silly that they couldn't take a similar design approach to just get a current hardware generation. Much of the current rig is from 2009, and Intel hiccuped with Sandy Bridge E giving them extra time to make up their minds.

Apple still has that XGrid technology and MAYBE they need to exploit it more so by having people wait every couple of years for a new MacPro system (because they have to wait for Intel) maybe they could develop a system to add processing power to help rendering that is much cheaper is what I think he is eluding to.  Anyones guess right now.

 

I think maybe Apple needs to maybe develop XGrid servers that are cheap to add more CPUs to help developers compile, video guys render, etc.  Just a thought.

post #118 of 335

Oh thank christ!

It may not be the Mac Pro as we know it now, but knowing they are going to continue a professional line of desktop machines makes me happy. In 2013 I was actually going to sell my 2010 iMac (Apple Care would've run out by that point) and get a Pro tower. Nice to know I can still do that. Weather its a "typical" tower, so to speak, remains to be seen.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #119 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

So what.  AIX and HPUX are essentially dead due to Linux.  Solaris is half dead.  And while linux and unix runs web servers and databases the enterprise runs on Exchange, Active Directory, Sharepoint and Win Server.

Trust me, AIX and HPUX are far from dead, especially on PowerPC based servers from IBM. Top end enterprise are more likely to use either Windows or a Combination of Windows with AIX or HPUX. Linux is more for the small and mid range market.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #120 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

 

Really? OS X server can provide the same level of service as Active Directory?  Nice.  The mail server does everything that Exchange can do?  Cool.  At the enterprise level?  Right.

 

 

 

If the department is small enough perhaps.  At best Apple servers are really only SOHO and small business capable.

So what.  Apple has a VERY easy to implement server for small businesses. Yeah, and it's a decent size market too.

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