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FaceTime over 3G with iOS 6 limited to iPhone 4S, iPad 3

post #1 of 148
Thread Starter 
Another new feature coming in iOS 6 will be limited to devices running Apple's custom A5 chip or later, as FaceTime over 3G will only be capable on the iPhone 4S or third-generation iPad.

That means owners of the iPhone 4, Apple's first device to offer FaceTime, or the iPad 2 will still need to be connected to Wi-Fi in order to conduct a FaceTime video chat call when iOS 6 launches this fall. The restriction was revealed in the fine print of Apple's official product page for iOS 6.

FaceTime over 3G joins turn-by-turn directions and the new "Flyover" feature in Maps as functions in iOS 6 that will require an A5 processor or newer. The iPhone 4, first released in 2010, runs the previous-generation A4 chip.

While iPhone 4 owners won't get FaceTime over 3G, turn-by-turn directions or Flyover, they will have access to shared Photo streams when iOS 6 launches this year. iPhone 3GS owners won't be so lucky, however, as Shared Photo Streams requires iOS 6 on an iPhone 4 or later or iPad 2 or later, and a Mac computer with OS X Mountain Lion.

The iPhone 3GS will also miss out on VIP list in the iOS 6 Mail application, along with VIP and Flagged smart mailboxes. Those features will be available on the iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.

Compatible


And the new "Offline Reading List" in Safari also requires an iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later, meaning the iPhone 3GS, which was first released in 2009, didn't make the cut.

Finally, "Made for iPhone" hearing aids, a new accessibility feature of iOS 6, will require an iPhone 4S to work, when compatible hearing aids hit the market.

Apple's fine print for iOS 6 features makes no mention of the fourth-generation iPod touch, which will run iOS 6 when it launches this fall. The fourth-generation iPod touch features an A4 processor similar to the one found in the iPhone 4, so it's likely that the same feature restrictions will apply.
post #2 of 148

Wow - us iphone 4 owners are really getting the shaft.  Pretty shitty move Apple - considering my phone is only a little over a year old.
 

post #3 of 148

Oh, why! I don't want to use the F word here but Android's been having that trouble for a while. It's clear that they *can* allow older phones to have Siri, turn-by-turn, dictation, etc, but it's clear they're making some choices here. The line seems kind of arbitrary about which iOS devices will get which features. The latest will always have all, of course, but we're going to need a matrix to determine while features will be on which devices when iOS 6 is released.

post #4 of 148

If the iPhone 4 can do FaceTime over Wi-Fi, it can do FaceTime over 3G...
 

post #5 of 148

Some may call it a thinly veiled exercise in getting people with iphone4's to buy new phones

 

.....Other's will call it business. Its all about the bottom line. And forcing people to upgrade ensures you have a pretty healthy bottom line. 

 

As for the F word, yeah, its real. As a developer you have some with turn by turn, some with 3d maps, some with facetime over cellular, some with 4" screens (supposedly), multiple processor and GPU differences, some with siri. But it is still not as bad as Android overall though. 

 

At the end of the day, as technology advances there is BOUND to be fragmentation of those on the cutting edge and those that still have devices from two or three years ago. Can't escape it. Just the way it is. 

post #6 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpriceslc View Post

If the iPhone 4 can do FaceTime over Wi-Fi, it can do FaceTime over 3G…

No, that's not how you determine it.

Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.
post #7 of 148

Having the beta, I noticed this last night in that it didn't work.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpriceslc View Post

If the iPhone 4 can do FaceTime over Wi-Fi, it can do FaceTime over 3G...
 

 

Of course, as does other services and jailbreaks. This is Apple writing it's own arbitrary rules.

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post #8 of 148
I dont believe the sinister motive that many will write about. My guess is that Apple determined that pre-4S models didn't offer the minimum quality of user experience they wanted the public to have.

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post #9 of 148

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

Oh, why! I don't want to use the F word here but Android's been having that trouble for a while. It's clear that they *can* allow older phones to have Siri, turn-by-turn, dictation, etc, but it's clear they're making some choices here. The line seems kind of arbitrary about which iOS devices will get which features. The latest will always have all, of course, but we're going to need a matrix to determine while features will be on which devices when iOS 6 is released.

 

I don't understand some of the limitations (like the VIP feature in Mail being excluded from the 3GS) but I have a feeling I might know why Siri and FaceTime over 3G are limited. Both tax networks (Siri taxing Apple's resources, FaceTime taxing the carriers' resources) so limiting them in a way such as this also serves to limit the amount of resources consumed supporting the features, and naturally the newest devices should be supported if only a limited range of devices can be.

 

I could be wrong here, but it makes sense in my noggin.

 

(FaceTime over 3G could also be enabled optionally by carriers, but extending it to too many devices might have led to carriers flat-out denying it in general, at least in the United States where they are concerned with data usage on their networks).

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post #10 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

Oh, why! I don't want to use the F word here but Android's been having that trouble for a while. It's clear that they *can* allow older phones to have Siri, turn-by-turn, dictation, etc, but it's clear they're making some choices here. The line seems kind of arbitrary about which iOS devices will get which features. The latest will always have all, of course, but we're going to need a matrix to determine while features will be on which devices when iOS 6 is released.

 

From Engadget: http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/12/psa-which-ios-6-features-can-my-device-run/

 

0JlS2.png

post #11 of 148
My suspicion is that only allowing FaceTime over 3G on iPhone 4S is a concession to the carriers who likely want FaceTime on as many iPads as possible (hence iPad 2 and the new iPad both having FaceTime over 3G) for the associated data plan but don't want FaceTime over 3G on every iPhone on their networks.

LOL... Xian Zhu Xuande beat me.


I am really upset that I won't get the 4" display update on my iPhone 4S when the new iPhone is released. What a crock!
post #12 of 148

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too.

post #13 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Some may call it a thinly veiled exercise in getting people with iphone4's to buy new phones

.....Other's will call it business. Its all about the bottom line. And forcing people to upgrade ensures you have a pretty healthy bottom line.

And others will continue to say that Apple is looking at the carrying capacity of their data network as they load it up with real-time apps like Siri, Maps, iMessage and FaceTime.

Edit: Xian, jd, MacBook all take this approach above. Whiners are looking worse and worse these past two days.
Edited by Flaneur - 6/13/12 at 10:32am
post #14 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already?

What's this? A company that sells things is trying to sell you something? Your iPhone 4 could be a day old and this would still apply. Apple always does this, as does every other company. The trick (that until just now Apple had down pat better than any other company) is to support old models as well as you can until they can't reasonably be anymore.
Quote:
It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for.

That's not the reason for this.
Quote:
Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.

And that's not Apple, I don't believe.
post #15 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

 

I don't understand some of the limitations (like the VIP feature in Mail being excluded from the 3GS) but I have a feeling I might know why Siri and FaceTime over 3G are limited. Both tax networks (Siri taxing Apple's resources, FaceTime taxing the carriers' resources) so limiting them in a way such as this also serves to limit the amount of resources consumed supporting the features, and naturally the newest devices should be supported if only a limited range of devices can be.

 

I could be wrong here, but it makes sense in my noggin.

 

(FaceTime over 3G could also be enabled optionally by carriers, but extending it to too many devices might have led to carriers flat-out denying it in general, at least in the United States where they are concerned with data usage on their networks).

Carriers may be a reasonable answer, except Skype is bigger than Facetime and works on 3G, as does every other Video calling service. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I dont believe the sinister motive that many will write about. My guess is that Apple determined that pre-4S models didn't offer the minimum quality of user experience they wanted the public to have.

 

This will be the cop-out answer like Soph's yesterday with the maps, which is illogical on multiple levels. If it works on Wifi, it's not taking any more phone resources, and if it's carriers, the other devices handle just fine and those are increasing in number with 4's decreasing over time, so load would still only rise. No such restrictions exist on competing platforms, and if reports are to be believed, they still outnumber iphones.

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post #16 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


No, that's not how you determine it.
Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.


Yes, that is how you determine it.  The original iPhone could not do FaceTime.  FaceTime wasn't introduced until the iPhone 4.

post #17 of 148

1. So you bought your iPhone 4 less than a year ago... The iPhone 4 is two years old, next month. (Tardy to the party?) lol

 

2. Let's not forget that the network capability of the iPhone 4 is not as great as the 4s. The 4 connects to HSPA networks, while the 4s connects to HSPA+ which directly relates to network speed.

 

My 4s out runs my wife's 4 every day of the week on the AT&T network while we are side by side. This is probably directly linked to the fact that Apple does not want to add Siri or FaceTime to the 4... Both utilize the network and the lag may be out of range for Apple. Not to mention that they are a business and they do need to make money to stay IN business. lol

post #18 of 148

pretty sure it has to do with 4G or 4G equivalent capability.  only the iphone 4S/ipad 3rd gen have that.
 

post #19 of 148

article title is wrong, iPad 2 will NOT have FaceTime over 3G.

post #20 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Some may call it a thinly veiled exercise in getting people with iphone4's to buy new phones

.....Other's will call it business. Its all about the bottom line. And forcing people to upgrade ensures you have a pretty healthy bottom line. 

As for the F word, yeah, its real. As a developer you have some with turn by turn, some with 3d maps, some with facetime over cellular, some with 4" screens (supposedly), multiple processor and GPU differences, some with siri. But it is still not as bad as Android overall though. 

At the end of the day, as technology advances there is BOUND to be fragmentation of those on the cutting edge and those that still have devices from two or three years ago. Can't escape it. Just the way it is. 

It may also be that these new advanced features that are very beificial, convienent, and more "flashy" to the public eye may and probable will get more use, and suck up more cellular data because of their ease of use and mainstream attraction.

So knowing this the mobile networks (like Verizon) who are trying to cap or move people away from their grandfathered unlimited data plans, struck a deal to allow it only on the newest devices.

Version won't let you upgrade your phone without switching to a metered cellular plan.

So when The new iPhone comes out, of course you want it . . .

Byebye unlimited plan.

So this makes since in that regard.

Some of these features can be done on older devices but I'm sure it scares the ish out of the networks with all the popularity and unlimited plans out there.

It's a calculated rule, and I'm sure that's what Steve Jobs meant when he announced FaceTime and said something like needing to "work a little" with the networks.
post #21 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmj2u View Post

1. So you bought your iPhone 4 less than a year ago... The iPhone 4 is two years old, next month. (Tardy to the party?) lol

 

2. Let's not forget that the network capability of the iPhone 4 is not as great as the 4s. The 4 connects to HSPA networks, while the 4s connects to HSPA+ which directly relates to network speed.

 

My 4s out runs my wife's 4 every day of the week on the AT&T network while we are side by side. This is probably directly linked to the fact that Apple does not want to add Siri or FaceTime to the 4... Both utilize the network and the lag may be out of range for Apple. Not to mention that they are a business and they do need to make money to stay IN business. lol

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mengel View Post

pretty sure it has to do with 4G or 4G equivalent capability.  only the iphone 4S/ipad 3rd gen have that.
 

 

Except Verizon and Sprint's 4 and 4S run on the exact same network, but good try. 

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post #22 of 148

people still use FaceTime?... just fragmenting the service even more see. It is so limited already it is useless for the most part.

post #23 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

Wow - us iphone 4 owners are really getting the shaft.  Pretty shitty move Apple - considering my phone is only a little over a year old.
 

 

 

Apple knows that a lot of iPhone 4 users are coming to the end of their contracts and they want to sell them an iPhone 5. There is a reason their stock is $500+.

 

-kpluck

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post #24 of 148
My iPhone4 is two years old this month. I'll upgrade when the iP5 comes out in October. Perhaps a jailbreak is in order between now and then?
post #25 of 148

The fine print (note 4) says:

 

  1. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.

 

The facetime does not need the A5 chip.  The info is right from apple.com.

post #26 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by StephanJobs View Post


It may also be that these new advanced features that are very beificial, convienent, and more "flashy" to the public eye may and probable will get more use, and suck up more cellular data because of their ease of use and mainstream attraction.
So knowing this the mobile networks (like Verizon) who are trying to cap or move people away from their grandfathered unlimited data plans, struck a deal to allow it only on the newest devices.
Version won't let you upgrade your phone without switching to a metered cellular plan.
So when The new iPhone comes out, of course you want it . . .
Byebye unlimited plan.
So this makes since in that regard.
Some of these features can be done on older devices but I'm sure it scares the ish out of the networks with all the popularity and unlimited plans out there.
It's a calculated rule, and I'm sure that's what Steve Jobs meant when he announced FaceTime and said something like needing to "work a little" with the networks.

 

Riiiiiggghhhttt

 

Well lets see. Every phone can use skype and android supports native video calling for years now over data. From the numbers more than 50% of the world smartphones use android AND 100% of the world smartphones can use Skype. 

 

Now add to that research that shows Android users tend to use data more than wifi, AND that if you wanted to video chat you would have skype on your phone ANYWAY....I just can't see how this is a carrier thing. 

 

Its business. At some point you just have to realise its a business. They spend a lot of money developing those iOS features (although more and more they seem to be mimicking features other mobile OS's had for years) and they need to make that back through sales. 

 

And lets be real. Apple isn't the only company. Why didn't Samsung release S-Voice for the GS2? What, does S-Voice need a quad core to work? Of course not, they just want people to buy their latest phone. 

 

Business, people. Business. 

post #27 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.

If this pisses you off . . Lol

Better stay clear of Android devices. . .. . .

And every other company, as they are a nightmare in this area.

In my experience apple has supported their iPhone models with the newest software better and more consistently than any other hardware, and software makers out there

This is funny. I remember having always read a new Manual and learn new features with every new phone I got pre-iPhone era.

Now here we are and we still aren't satisfied. . . Lol

Although I do agree we should have as much backwards compatability as possible.

At least until our 2 year contract expires, hey wait . . IPhone 4 has been out 2 years . .hmmmmmm

1wink.gif
post #28 of 148

Really quite simple.  Now that the carriers have done away with unlimited plans, they are encouraging as many folks as possible to upgrade and use all the 3G or 4G they can.  Since most, if not all, of the iphone4 plans expire this year, and were unlimited data plans, they get to entice you to upgrade to get Facetime over the cellular network, and take you to the cleaners in data charges.  Remember when the carriers wouldn't "allow" Apple to use 3G for Facetime, saying they were "network constrained"?  Well, this was, of course, all hogwash, as they were just waiting to do away with the unlimited plans, and now: Voila: you can do Facetime over the cellular network!  (however, you must get a new phone from us, and we won't let you keep your unlimited plan anymore, but we've got this great deal that lets us charge you $50 or more per month to do all the Facetime and streaming movies you like - come one, come all, no more network constraint - magic).  What corporate creeps.

post #29 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

people still use FaceTime?... just fragmenting the service even more see. It is so limited already it is useless for the most part.

I use it often with my friends and family, so not it's not useless to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by igorleandro View Post

article title is wrong, iPad 2 will NOT have FaceTime over 3G.

Was just about to say this.
post #30 of 148

Maybe I am missing something but the Fine Print is actually saying iphone 4 is included. Not sure where the author saw that the Iphone wasn't.

 

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/

 

  1. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
post #31 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


And that's not Apple, I don't believe.

The 50mb app download limit is pretty random, and is perhaps just there to satisfy US carriers who have poor networks. I have unlimited data here in the UK, and I can stream as much netflix or Spotify as I like, or download as many podcasts as I like through apps like Downcast.  There's no cap in the hardware, it's a lock Apple put in place which they've never bothered to justify.

post #32 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmj2u View Post

1. So you bought your iPhone 4 less than a year ago... The iPhone 4 is two years old, next month. (Tardy to the party?) lol

 

2. Let's not forget that the network capability of the iPhone 4 is not as great as the 4s. The 4 connects to HSPA networks, while the 4s connects to HSPA+ which directly relates to network speed.

 

My 4s out runs my wife's 4 every day of the week on the AT&T network while we are side by side. This is probably directly linked to the fact that Apple does not want to add Siri or FaceTime to the 4... Both utilize the network and the lag may be out of range for Apple. Not to mention that they are a business and they do need to make money to stay IN business. lol

The Verizon iPhone 4S has Siri and will receive the other updates from iOS 6 and it does not use the HSPA network since Verizon does not have one.

 

Data throughput is not a valid argument.

post #33 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by yardbirdjo View Post

Maybe I am missing something but the Fine Print is actually saying iphone 4 is included. Not sure where the author saw that the Iphone wasn't.

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/
  1. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.

You must have just made that up. It doesn't say that at all.

It says "4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4S or iPad (3rd generation) with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries."
post #34 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by yardbirdjo View Post

Maybe I am missing something but the Fine Print is actually saying iphone 4 is included. Not sure where the author saw that the Iphone wasn't.

 

http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/

 

  1. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.

 

I clicked on that link and this is the text I saw:

 

4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4S or iPad (3rd generation) with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.

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post #35 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by mengel View Post

pretty sure it has to do with 4G or 4G equivalent capability.  only the iphone 4S/ipad 3rd gen have that.
 

 

Not on Verizon, they don't. Network throughput is not the reason they are limiting these features to the 4S. There are no hardware limitations either.

post #36 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.


My Android phone is less than a year old and I cannot even get the current OS, not even talking about the next OS, and you complain about getting only 95% of the features of the next OS?

 

(Actually, I don't have an Android phone but what I said would apply to the vast majority of Android users.)

post #37 of 148
On the Australian site (http://www.apple.com/au/ios/ios6/)
Quote:
4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
post #38 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.

Rofl...

Btw the iPhone 4 is quite dated (2010 actually). Don't blame apple you chose the cheaper alternative...a data cap also is imposed by carrier...don't blame apple.
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post #39 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

I dont believe the sinister motive that many will write about. My guess is that Apple determined that pre-4S models didn't offer the minimum quality of user experience they wanted the public to have.

For which feature? Turn-by-turn navigation? I have that on my iPhone 4 using Navigon. Works great.

 

Siri? Works on jailbroken phones.

 

At the very least, for those two features, Apple has held them back from iPhone 4 users with some other motive in mind other than hardware capability.

post #40 of 148

Is it really that much of a shock that Apple is making the newest features exclusive to its latest products?  If your hardware is 2 years old, it's already obsolete for a company who updates its hardware on a yearly cycle.

 

I can't imagine what fun feature items will be unavailable for users of 2010 equipment for Mountain Lion later this summer and for iOS7 next year.

 

People who bought a Mac before this week's refresh and an iPad 2 before the new iPad came out were especially screwed, but they should have known better by doing research and realizing that Apple's behavior is quite established.

 

If you want to ride the "Latest and Greatest" tech wave with Apple and get the most bang for your hardware buck, your best bet is to have a big wallet and be ready to refresh your hardware every 2 years so that you can leapfrog.  Buy every other iPhone.  Buy every other MacBook refresh.  Dump your old hardware on craigslist, ebay, or to Windows-using relatives.

 

My forecasts for 2013:

 

People who bought a Mac computer in the 2011 Back To School season will miss out on some features in 2013's OSX 10.9. (Think of Air Drop, requiring only newer machines when 10.7 came out, for example.)

 

The iPhone 3GS will be replaced by the iPhone4 as the legacy "free" phone.  The iPhone4S will not get every feature in 2013's iOS7 -- those features require the A6 processor found only in the iPhone5.  The iPad4 runs everything in iOS7.  The new iPad (3) runs most things.

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