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FaceTime over 3G with iOS 6 limited to iPhone 4S, iPad 3 - Page 3

post #81 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

Wow - us iphone 4 owners are really getting the shaft.  Pretty shitty move Apple - considering my phone is only a little over a year old.
 

 

Nothing prevents you from using Tango or Skype.

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post #82 of 148

Lack of FaceTime over 3G on iP4 is either a pure commercial move, or a way of limiting network traffic to suit the carriers. 

 

It's unlikely to be for technical reasons - FaceTime works fine over 3G on a jailbroken iP4 with the appropriate hacks. Sure, the 4S has better 3G, but is that a reason to limit FaceTime? 3G speeds vary much more across networks and across areas than they do between 4 and 4S.

 

Not that there's really anything wrong with it as a commercial move. People can complain all they like, but Apple has no obligation to deliver any new features whatsoever to iPhones after they've been bought.


Edited by Euphonious - 6/13/12 at 1:58pm
post #83 of 148

Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.


Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me.  I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.

post #84 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26 View Post

The iPhone 4 is a current model.  It is not last year's model - it is still sold as a current version.  

A current version sold in every official outlet - not in bargain basements.

The consumer does not know or care when it was released.  The consumer should know that it is a current line of product, given that it is sold as such.

Incorrect, it's last years model, notice the lesser space provided then when it was the flagship.

Once again it may be a current model but not the flagship.

Get your facts straight.

Does that mean the 3GS a current model according to your reasoning not 3 years old? It's still quite dated but supported non the less.
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post #85 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J View Post

Still not understanding why video Skype works fine over 3G on the 4, but Facetime won't.


Even more important, all this does is make Facetime even less relevant, useful and popular. I use Skype all the time, even when I'm in WiFi, because don't have to change up and back and Facetime brings nothing to the table Skype doesn't give me.  I would think Apple would want to push Facetime to as many users as possible to increase the general use.

 



FaceTime and Skype aren't exactly the same in terms of it's technical functions - to some degree Factime is part of the cellular voice system (it does video over voice) - skype is just pure data through and through - they even have their own account system for voice phone calls to the telephony network (in fact their entire network is private) - something that Apple lacks since it uses the carrier network - that's why its availability is limited.

post #86 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post

Riiiiiggghhhttt

Well lets see. Every phone can use skype and android supports native video calling for years now over data. From the numbers more than 50% of the world smartphones use android AND 100% of the world smartphones can use Skype. 

Now add to that research that shows Android users tend to use data more than wifi, AND that if you wanted to video chat you would have skype on your phone ANYWAY....I just can't see how this is a carrier thing. 

Its business. At some point you just have to realise its a business. They spend a lot of money developing those iOS features (although more and more they seem to be mimicking features other mobile OS's had for years) and they need to make that back through sales. 

And lets be real. Apple isn't the only company. Why didn't Samsung release S-Voice for the GS2? What, does S-Voice need a quad core to work? Of course not, they just want people to buy their latest phone. 

Business, people. Business. 

While I do believe this is a tactic, I don't believe it's the end all be all with the answer as to why older iPhones won't share in some of these features.

Skype is a NOT a native app on iPhone and there is a huge difference in how this app is viewed visibly by the public and carriers.

When Apple has a keynote with a mass media appeal and subsequent product launch touting these awesome features that are native apps and are extremely beneficial and easy to use, it is a world of difference in how it used and perceived by the public.

When you buy these phones with all the hype and information provided, its bound to be utilized in droves. That shiny new button beckons for it to be touched.

It's like a push button start on a car. It's gonna take a hit.

Skype has to be located downloaded and activated through the user. Also they have to have an individual account.

These difference make just enough separation for it to not be as much of an issue.

I know my dad has used FaceTime as well as my mom. But they show no interest nor have they ever used Skype, even after I had shown them the way.

Don't get me wrong Skype has tons of recognition and users but the app is submitted to apple for approval and a contract exists through them which may provide them with a sort of protection against the cellular networks

I'm sure the networks hate those apps too and wish or plan to do something about it int the future such as metered plans and doing away with unlimited data plans.
post #87 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post


WUT? Most of the 4S user's I know have grandfathered data plans along with myself and my wife's phone...upgrading to the new phone would not change your plan..just your contract term length.

Never let reality get into the way of a good theory.

post #88 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post


My Android phone is less than a year old and I cannot even get the current OS, not even talking about the next OS, and you complain about getting only 95% of the features of the next OS?

(Actually, I don't have an Android phone but what I said would apply to the vast majority of Android users.)

Major difference with the Android updates and the Apple updates, Google update their core applications quite often, regardless of OS update, while Apple will generally wait for an OS update to do the same
post #89 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

**** you Apple. My iPhone 4 is less than a year old, and you're trying to coerce me into buying new one already? Why, so you can put some random limit on that phone to drive sales of the next one in another couple of months?. It's my data plan, stop arbitrarily telling me what I can use it for. Enough with the 50mb app store dowload limits too, assholes.

Although iPhone 4 is a two year old phone (June 2010 release).  The iPhone 4 did basically get all of iOS5 excepting Siri.  That said, I do think that this iOS strategy is quite a bit more severe than it need be, and has ever been because previously it was about hardware limitation on legacy models, and now it's about software and data usage and hardware.  FaceTime on 3G should be on iPhone 4, likewise turn by turn, and everything else software related.  The rest I could understand.  

 

The thing with FaceTime is that sometime in the not too distant future, most if not all people will be on a Siri capable model and more (especially now Apple are keen for you to do so by limiting a bunch of the great stuff to the 4S), so the networks asking Apple to limit the phone to one model doesn't make sense to me.  It feels more like an Apple decision to me, I mean they're not going to impose FaceTime 3G limits on the whole world because some US carriers don't like the idea of the data usage hike on their networks in their country.  All countries and networks are different.  Why would they do this?  Just a new push to get the user to upgrade.  I'm upgrading to the iPhone 5 anyway, but there are going to be some annoyed loyal people because of stuff like this because the need to upgrade hardware to benefit the software hasn't been imposed so harshly before.

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post #90 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post

I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.
But that was your point.
Quote:
…artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason…
You're certain of this?

 

Yes it was my point, and I think it's valid.

 

As for my certainty, it might depend on one's definition of rational, however Apple have a happy habit of killing compatibility very early and it's often not for good reasons. Is there really any reason Logic 8 shouldn't have worked on Lion, especially given if you bypass the package shortcut it actually does. Is there any reason Facetime, iMessage or even iCloud can't work on 32-bit Intel Macs? Apple seems to support WindowsXP better than it supports Snow Leopard. Is there any reason the iPad 2 cannot have dictation, given it has exactly the same CPU and audio processing capabilities as the New iPad? Why can't a 2.26ghz Mac Mini with a 9400m playback iTunes 1080p smoothly, when Windows machines with much lower CPU speeds can (it's because they can't be arsed to write efficient hardware decode drivers). Again, XP gets better support than OS X here.

 

Again, I don't know why AI isn't a little more discerning in its critical outlook of Apple.

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post #91 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

 

There are technical reasons - here is the reason for Siri - there is new hardware built into the A5 that is specifically to support Siri.  Apple won't release as substandard implementation on devices that don't have this hardware.

 

 

http://article-interlingual.blogspot.com/2012/02/iphone-4s-has-special-noise-reduction.html

 

 

Everyone says this so I'm going to have to throw it out:

Both the iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S have earSmart (albiet different generations) and both are designed for wide fields of noise cancelation - the 4S's introduction of the updated generation of earSmart is merely an incremental upgrade. People who are willing to do their research can find documents with this information in it.

Also, don't bump it until you've tried it, dudes and dudette, Siri on an iPhone 4 and don't have problems over here.

 

 

For everything else that's missing, looks like I'll be continuing jailbreaking with iOS6 until I get get the cash for the next iPhone upgrade. Bummer.

post #92 of 148
Nooooooooooooooooo! FaceTime has NOTHING to do with the power of the A4 and A5 chip. I want FaceTime over 3G. I could understand if it was due to 4G limitations, but the 4S doesn't use 4G so they can't blame it on that. I am super disappointed.
post #93 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Just imagine what impact "Siri Does Dallas" (Cowboys, Stars, Rangers, Mavericks, Sidekicks...) will have on network usage when people look up scores, stats, etc...

This Siri Sports ability, alone will, likely, drive the Siri servers performance down the drain, day-in-day-out, year 'round.

One way to help assure reasonable performance for desired/limited service is to charge [more] for the service the better it is -- box seats cost more than bleacher seats.

Another way is to provide the service free, but limit access to, say, members of the stadium club (as a benefit of paid membership in the club).


So, what Apple/carriers are doing with these "limited-availability" services -- is providing them free, but limiting the access to them to "members of the club who have paid their dues".

Another way to consider this -- everyone who buys a ticket is not entitled to sit in the executive boxes.  Even if the team wanted to allow it, there aren't enough seats for everyone...

In this case, "seats" equates to the bandwidth/server load necessary to deliver an acceptable level of service.


Even if you have the ability to buy executive box seats -- no one is forcing you to...  you can buy an end zone seat for a much lower price.


But it is unrealistic to expect when you bought executive boxes last year -- and therefore that entitles you to site in the executive boxes this year (with your end zone ticket).

That's the way of the world with cars, sports, computers, cell phones...  you get what you pay for when you buy it.

If you want/need a thing badly enough you will find a way to pay for it.

Exactly, and very well put. But I do believe In some way Apple wants us to Have "executive boxes" but they must maintain a healthy relationship with the carriers, which may lead to complications with data draining features.

Nice post.
post #94 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_beezy View Post


Incorrect, it's last years model, notice the lesser space provided then when it was the flagship.
Once again it may be a current model but not the flagship.
Get your facts straight.
Does that mean the 3GS a current model according to your reasoning not 3 years old? It's still quite dated but supported non the less.


The 3GS absolutely IS a current model.

 

Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model.  A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.

 

You clearly need to get YOUR facts straight.

post #95 of 148

I thought there was a radio difference between the 4 and 4S ?   No?

post #96 of 148

This was a Cook decision, not a Jobs decision.  You'll recall that Jobs had offered up two things about FaceTime when launching the iPhone 4:

a) FaceTime was going to be open-sourced, freely available to anyone who wanted to integrate Apple's technology, regardless of platform or carrier. (Didn't happen...two years and counting....)

 

b) The "WiFi-only" restriction was a temporary concession to the carriers by Jobs, not a hardware restriction. (Lots of Jailbroken iPhone 4s have proven this, as well as tethering with a 3G hotspot)

Video from WWDC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7S3wZHeePM  (spoiler: "Wi-Fi only in 2010")

 

Translation: The iPhone 4S is making Apple money, legacy users are not.

 

Conclusion: We can expect this to be par for the course going forward with Apple under the Cook administration.

post #97 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook View Post


I wasn't referring to the 3GS, I was referring to the iPhone 4, which is also still available to buy.

 

It's one thing for these devices to be technically inferior in some ways (speed, camera quality etc) but another to artificially restrict features (like Face Time and Siri) for no rational reason, other than a nod to the carriers to restrict data on their networks.

 

Quite honestly, AI needs to get a bit more objective too in its reporting, rather than being an apologist for every decision Apple makes.


AI isn't horrible.

 

Some of the fanboi commenters on here most certainly are, though.  I've even seen comments complaining about discussions of unreleased products (really, people whining that someone broke their NDA), which is exactly what sites like AI are supposed to be about.

 

Apple makes some really great stuff.  But not everything Apple does is good for us, Apple very frequently makes some really stupid decisions AND ALWAYS HAS, and people here need to understand that.

post #98 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post


The 3GS absolutely IS a current model.

Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model.  A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.

You clearly need to get YOUR facts straight.

Hardware Age is not determined by when it was purchased...are people really dense or what?

Notice the 3GS has not been been changed or updated (other then os) since its unveiling in 2009?

The 3GS is 3+ year old hardware. Period.

Idiotic I swear did you even read what I posted?. Kinda like the chumps going I'm waiting for the iPhone 5...
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post #99 of 148
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Originally Posted by SailorPaul View Post

I thought there was a radio difference between the 4 and 4S ?   No?

There is. Hspa+ support
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post #100 of 148
My iPad just turned into a video phone. Sweet! But will it work over LTE? Does it matter?
post #101 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


No, that's not how you determine it.
Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.

 

My iPhone 4 does video calls over cellular perfectly fine, using Skype and other third party Apps.

 

My two years will be up soon I can upgrade any time now so it's a moot issue for me.

 

Now, I'm not really for phones having too many things out of the box, each thing that's included kills an opportunity for third party developers as they have to compete with built in features.

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post #102 of 148

Congrats to Apple. They are finally matched Android in having mutltiple devices with diffferent operating systems, something that Android has been criticized for in this community.

post #103 of 148
This is the worse news EVER!¡ How can Apple do this to us? I've been a longtime customer of Apple so they owe me and yet they are not giving me for my older iPhone. I'm livid! I'm thinking of emailing Tim Cook to let him know how it's wrong to not have a feature in all previous iOS versions to still not have in the next one. It really is inhumane the way Apple treats their loyal customers. I bet Foxconn treats their workers better. Hitler¡

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post #104 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This is the worse news EVER!¡ How can Apple do this to us? I've been a longtime customer of Apple so they owe me and yet they are not giving me for my older iPhone. I'm livid! I'm thinking of emailing Tim Cook to let him know how it's wrong to not have a feature in all previous iOS versions to still not have in the next one. It really is inhumane the way Apple treats their loyal customers. I bet Foxconn treats their workers better. Hitler¡

 

Nice sarcasm. I don't think anyone is saying "Apple owes me", it's more about how quickly products are being left behind with features that were implied years ago.

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post #105 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Carriers may be a reasonable answer, except Skype is bigger than Facetime and works on 3G, as does every other Video calling service. 

 

It's a question of market penetration. While Skype is a very popular service it probably doesn't offer the potential threat to carriers that FaceTime, fully integrated into iDevices and Macs, can now or will in the future. Also, it is worth noting that there may be differences in handling between something Apple is integrating into devices and a service offered by a third-party developer. As is the case with Skype, I'm sure someone is watching to see how much data it is consuming as an app. We went through a period where third party apps were limited based on potential impact to carriers and today the involved parties probably know what to expect from a service like Skype (potentially big enough to matter on an independent basis) and if something terribly unexpected did happen it could be resolved reasonably (which could not be said for Apple pulling a feature like FaceTime over 3G from an older iDevice because the service wound up using too much bandwidth).

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post #106 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Congrats to Apple. They are finally matched Android in having mutltiple devices with diffferent operating systems, something that Android has been criticized for in this community.

What are you smoking?  All the phones and iPads actively being sold by Apple are getting the newest OS - that is not what people’s complaints about fragmentation regarding Andrioid are when only 7 percent of devices sold are running the latest OS.

post #107 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post

 

It's a question of market penetration. While Skype is a very popular service it probably doesn't offer the potential threat to carriers that FaceTime, fully integrated into iDevices and Macs, can now or will in the future. Also, it is worth noting that there may be differences in handling between something Apple is integrating into devices and a service offered by a third-party developer. As is the case with Skype, I'm sure someone is watching to see how much data it is consuming as an app. We went through a period where third party apps were limited based on potential impact to carriers and today the involved parties probably know what to expect from a service like Skype (potentially big enough to matter on an independent basis) and if something terribly unexpected did happen it could be resolved reasonably (which could not be said for Apple pulling a feature like FaceTime over 3G from an older iDevice because the service wound up using too much bandwidth).

That is true, Skype uses it’s own systems and services on their own servers to handle the voice calls and videos (it has to for billing purposes).  Facetime is integrating directly with the phone dialer more directly.

post #108 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Congrats to Apple. They are finally matched Android in having mutltiple devices with diffferent operating systems, something that Android has been criticized for in this community.

 

Android is deserving of much harsher criticisms that that. Double down on criticizing Android, people!

 

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post #109 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by clgoh View Post

On the Australian site (http://www.apple.com/au/ios/ios6/)
Quote:
4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.

 

That's what I read... I'm running iOS 6 now on an iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S and the option to enable FaceTime over 3G is missing on the iPhone 4.

post #110 of 148

On second thought, I agree, that is a likely reason as well.
 

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post #111 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


No, that's not how you determine it.
Would you say that since the original iPhone could do FaceTime over Wi-Fi it could do FaceTime over cellular? Not all 3G is created equal, either.

 

You know how I determine it? FaceTime over 3G on a jailbroken iPhone 4 worked flawlessly for me, that's how.

 

Somehow, I just knew you'd be the first to support this obvious dick move by Apple. Either I'm psychic, or you're just that predictable.

post #112 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

 



FaceTime and Skype aren't exactly the same in terms of it's technical functions - to some degree Factime is part of the cellular voice system (it does video over voice) - skype is just pure data through and through - they even have their own account system for voice phone calls to the telephony network (in fact their entire network is private) - something that Apple lacks since it uses the carrier network - that's why its availability is limited.

 

Um. What?

 

You are aware that until recently, FaceTime was a wifi-only App, right? Wifi-only, as in "not a GD thing to do the "cellular voice system"?

 

Just checking, because your comments would seem to indicate you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but I thought I'd be clear just in case.

post #113 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy View Post

What are you smoking?  All the phones and iPads actively being sold by Apple are getting the newest OS - that is not what people’s complaints about fragmentation regarding Andrioid are when only 7 percent of devices sold are running the latest OS.

I went to the apple store. They are still selling ipad 2's, which will not support IOS 6.

There are two versions of Ipad 2's as well as Ipad 3's.. so right there, 50 percent of their IPAD's do not support newest OS.

 

Then i checked on the phones.

Apple still selling Iphone 4 and Iphone 3GS, which will not support all the new features of the new OS. Hnmmm...

 

Then i went over to the ipad touch and well, not sure if they only selling one version of itouch.. but regardless, how is it that you arrived that all iPads and iPhones actively sold by apple are getting the newest OS?.

Sometimes, you should visit the website before spewing your propaganda.

post #114 of 148

iPhone 4S quer comprar preço???

post #115 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Somehow, I just knew you'd be the first to support this obvious dick move by Apple. Either I'm psychic, or you're just that predictable.

Yeah, you'll notice I did no such thing, thanks.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #116 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkVader View Post


The 3GS absolutely IS a current model.

Any device still being manufactured and sold new is by definition a current model.  A 3GS bought new today is most certainly NOT 3 years old, it's likely less than 3 weeks old.

You clearly need to get YOUR facts straight.

You are correct, they are current models. What the OP should have stated was that the 3GS and 4 are OLD, BUDGET models. Thus you should expect them to not be as feature complete as any newer models released.
post #117 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

Wow - us iphone 4 owners are really getting the shaft.  Pretty shitty move Apple - considering my phone is only a little over a year old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice View Post

I agree. I am really mad that iPhone 4 has become a stepchild.

Wait -- did your iPhone 4 suddenly stop doing things it did when you bought it? No? Well, then what are you complaining about?

 

Assuming that when you bought the iPhone 4, you considered it worth the price you paid for the feature set you received. Or did you buy it expecting that the feature set would be expanded for years to come? in that case, you're not a very smart shopper.

 

Quit whining. You're already getting more than you bargained for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

This will be the cop-out answer like Soph's yesterday with the maps, which is illogical on multiple levels. If it works on Wifi, it's not taking any more phone resources, and if it's carriers, the other devices handle just fine and those are increasing in number with 4's decreasing over time, so load would still only rise. No such restrictions exist on competing platforms, and if reports are to be believed, they still outnumber iphones.

Facetime over 3G might well use compression that doesn't run on A4's. You don't know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylersdad View Post

Not on Verizon, they don't. Network throughput is not the reason they are limiting these features to the 4S. There are no hardware limitations either.

Prove it.

 

.tsooJ

post #118 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by gyorpb View Post

 

Facetime over 3G might well use compression that doesn't run on A4's. 

 

 

 

Did you miss the post of the video that shows Steve Jobs himself saying that FaceTime will work over 3G on the iphone 4?  That the carriers did not want it?

 

Also, dont both the 4S and the iPad 2 have the A5 chip?  So if the issue was the chip why one and not the other?

 

FaceTime on a 4 over 3G on a jailbroken 4 has been working great for my family for over a year and a half now.\

 

What concerns me is that Tim Cook will not take the proactive and passionate stance with the industry's that Steve Jobs did. I believe it was Steve who drove the new cost paradigm in the music industry and drove down data plan costs for wireless carriers.  Now look at the new data plans coming out - the Verizon family plans actually drive up costs all told.  This will slow the growth and adoption of all wireless tablets and smartphones.

post #119 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnoel View Post

What concerns me is that Tim Cook will not take the proactive and passionate stance with the industry's that Steve Jobs did. I believe it was Steve who drove the new cost paradigm in the music industry and drove down data plan costs for wireless carriers.  Now look at the new data plans coming out - the Verizon family plans actually drive up costs all told.  This will slow the growth and adoption of all wireless tablets and smartphones.

We know Steve; we know what he could do. So does everyone else. The telecoms think they can waltz all over Tim because Steve is gone. They just need put back in their place, is all. Give Tim some time.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #120 of 148
Clearly there is only one resolution to this issue.

The new policy should be no updates, ever. The iPhone you buy shouldn't receive any updates with any new features. Apparently this is what everyone wants. I already called Apple Executive Customer Service to place an urgent feature request. Hopefully no new features, ever, will make everyone who is complaining happy. For those who really don't want any new features ever after purchasing your "smartphone," you should consider Android-based "smartphones" since this is a major feature of the Android platform.
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