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Microsoft rumored to build its own tablets to take on Apple's iPad - Page 3

post #81 of 147

"We're really excited about this product. We call it 'Next of Kin'."

post #82 of 147
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Originally Posted by Relic View Post

This is great news, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I really hope these things take off as there really isn't reason why they shouldn't. I happen to like the Metro interface and if Microsoft embraces more media codecs then Apple does like Divx. Flash, ect. I will defiantly pick one up to use as a media pad. We need more competition not less, with Apples latest iOS 6 release it seems that they are now becoming complacent and if Microsoft is successful we will hopefully finally get a newer, better UI for the now aging iOS to compete. Just wishing here.

You're one of those people that like to slow down and gawk as you pass a flaming multi-car wreck, aren't you?

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post #83 of 147
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Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You photoshop skills are very strong young padawan, lol.

That's not Photoshop.

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post #84 of 147
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Originally Posted by focuspuller View Post

This could be bad for Apple.

 

When the Microsoft tablet fails totally and the clown Ballmer is finally removed by the Board, they may actually get somebody as CEO who has a clue.

I hear there's a recent ex-CEO of H.P. shopping his resumé around Redmond. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #85 of 147

I've never been a huge fan of MS, but in my book, they've got three things going for them in my book:

 

  1. Even though they ripped off Apple's UI and potentially caused them great loss for some time, they did push Apple to move toward a real preemptive multitasking OS.
  2. They came to Apple's aid during some dark times.  Apple may not be around today if it weren't for them, and they didn't take a pound of flesh to do it.
  3. In modern times, they built their own UI paradigm with Metro and are doing their best with it (instead of doing what Android did in 2008).

 

I don't think Metro is going to be a great success, but I do find it hard to be mean to them after they started playing fairly and do hope that they find a profitable niche that will allow them to be around for a long time.

post #86 of 147

Wow. Microsoft is taking a leaf from Apple's book and Google is taking a leaf from Microsoft's book. It will be interesting to see, in this age where an ecosystem is required not just an OS, whether the licensing model (Google) or the integrated model (Apple and Microsoft) will win.

post #87 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Even though the tablet might turn out to be a piece of junk, building their own hardware is a smart move by Microsoft. Apple has clearly demonstrated that building the whole widget is the best way to go.

This is basically the same conclusion I have reached. M$ realizes that tablets are not like PC's where you can just provide the software. In order to be optimized they need to control the entire user experience. I suspect they realize this with the phone OS as well and will acquire what's left of Nokia. I predict that Windows 8, and NOT Android Tablets will become the alternative to iPad.  

post #88 of 147

Just thought I'd chip in an opinion here as a an "all in" Apple fan and consultant.

 

I think MS might be able to pull this off, and agree with KarmaDave and select others that:

  • a) it will be the "alternative tablet OS" to iOS rather than Android, and
  • b) Win8 on tablets just might overtake iOS.

 

Pretty bold, but let's be honest here. There's still millions upon millions of enterprises CIOs/IT departments waiting to see what they'll be able to do when MS finally delivers something.

 

IF Microsoft can build a tablet that:

  • a) works smooth... which by all reviews and accounts, it already does;
  • b) integrates compatible versions of Office/Exchange and Office365... which is a no-brainer really;
  • c) creates tools that allow fast deployment of business proprietary back-end software for Win8RT,
  • d) stays price competitive AND offers stellar business support....

 

...they're on-track to do what an analyst said they'd do be 2015. It was reported here on AI... and of course wildly scoffed at.

 

IF Microsoft is truly honest with itself, they will realize that the consumer market is all tied up... for now at least... by Apple and Google. What neither of those competitors (include RIM here as well) have... or are going to have any time soon... is the deep reach into the backrooms of the enterprise that MS does.

 

It took something like 10+ years before Microsoft finally had a "consumer" hit with WinXP. I don't count Win98, because it was still mostly for the Geeks & Gamers consumer... not soccer-moms, kids, or grandparents.

 

I did the most consumer WinXP installations using SP2 even, which came out late summer 2004. Imagine that!? Almost 20 years before a real consumer got onto a computer that functioned similar to a Mac. Which I'll agree, is somewhat of a misnomer :)

 

I'm sure MS will even open Win8 up to modding eventually... so the Metro-Tiles may be short-lived for those that really hate it.

 

IF Microsoft sticks to there core and ".exe--cutes" this well... they'll be OK.

 

PS. As a consultant, I have to stay up-to-date with what my customers want and need. I'm hearing all kinds of chatter and wishful-thinking from my business customers re: Win8... and I'm just doing my homework for that day when they all want Win8RT-SP2. That's how *I* stay in business.

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post #89 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb View Post

These "tablets" will have their own tiny little hammer & chisel, instead of the traditional keypad -

Its Microsoft's take on the "touch screen keyboard"...

Should be called the "tap screen keyboard" to differentiate it...

post #90 of 147

Whether or not MS builds its own tablet, I think a Windows tablet has a reasonable chance of success for following reasons:

- MS still has a lions share of desktop OS - so any perceived compatibility or familiarity will give Windows tablets a boost out of the gate - even if there is no real similarity.

- Android tablets are in a mess - Samsung and Motorola just cannot compete with Amazon's $199 (and soon $149) tablets - plus the innumerable tablets at even less than $100 coming from dozens of companies. The Android tablet space has gotten commoditized before it even became big.

- Ecosystem is everything - and in Android's case, Amazon is the only one with some chance of success as an ecosystem. Google's ecosystem components (Mail, Docs, Youtube, etc) are available on all tablets, so that does not add any value to Android).

- MS will definitely have a version of Office available for its own OS. And you can bet that they will not support Android. They may or may not support iPad - or they might support iPad later on. Office will be a killer app for Windows tablets.

- MS is not as late to the tablet space as it was in Phones. Other than Apple, no one has managed success in tablets, so MS has a shot at being a respectable #2 if they don't mess things up. At some point, MS will release dev tools that allow compilation of existing Windows Apps for the tablet form factor.

- MS probably will not see anywhere near the patent hassles that other Android makers are seeing.

post #91 of 147

Just a "what-if-I-had-something-to-say-at-MS" kinda reply re: my above post:

 

Show off a perfectly integrated business tablet FIRST... and let the Geeks, Gamers, and consumers see what they can do with the device somewhere else.

 

Take off the consumer-oriented tiles completely, and show security, server, exchange and business-first tiles.

 

Maybe even go with a more serious, banker-styled color palette: muted tones on gray... or real earth tones. But seriously drop the swirlies, flowers, circles, etc.

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #92 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Whether or not MS builds its own tablet, I think a Windows tablet has a reasonable chance of success for following reasons:

- MS still has a lions share of desktop OS - so any perceived compatibility or familiarity will give Windows tablets a boost out of the gate - even if there is no real similarity.<snip>

I fully agree with the rest of your speculation after the <snip>.

 

However... once again I'll point out that the consumer side needs to be priority number 2, and has no relation whatsoever to MS's dominant desktop position. Win8 is a completely new desktop experience for many people. I've experienced a lot of consumer-types not even taking to Win7 so well, and begging to return to WinXP... which in almost all cases I don't allow them to, and still expect my future support.

 

I have in a couple of cases moved people to Ubuntu actually, rather than go back to WinXP, and the acceptance in those special cases has been quite good. Better than Win7 even. What irks and scares most people with Windows... is security.

 

EVEN though Win7 with a few tweaks and free progs is very secure, everything that ever goes wrong with a WinBox, comes down to me getting a call starting with, "I think I have a virus or trojan".

 

Funny that, and the real "Monkey" on the "Boy" IMHO.

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post #93 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


That's just amazing. Microsoft wants $80 per device - when most of the devices will probably sell for $200-300? What are they smoking?
And, more importantly, if they're getting that much of a license fee, why bother making the hardware?

 

Probably because they're NOT getting the license fee… nobody's buying. Doing the math on their current business model, it's likely they only have two choices, charge a high fee, or make it themselves.

 

Seems to me they need to rethink their business model just a tad...

post #94 of 147

Will it synch with the Zune and Windows Phone????

post #95 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

Yeah that's hilarious.  I remember the same "Fisher Price" type joke being made about Windows XP...  you guys may have heard of it...  it's one of the most popular OS's in the world.

 

Nobody likes a bunch of Zealots.  You hurt the Apple brand more than you help it.

 

 

Oh come on now! Someone cracks a joke and you call them a "zealot"? A tad sensitive there, aren't we? A tad... zealot-like... even?

 

And it's an Apple rumor/fan site. Chock full of Enthusiasts, evangelists, and yes, even the occasional "zealot" (whom most of us are as likely to push back on as easily as you might). In fact, we're mostly not "hostile" to M$. Most just highly prefer our choice of OS and hardware, yes, and many migrated here, from what we perceived as a miserable existence in the M$ world, and yes many aren't too fond of how M$ has done or does business.

 

The Fisher Price thing was funny… I thought anyway...

 

 

Does all that qualify me as a zealot?

 

(For that matter, does thinking that Steve Balmer is a complete buffoon and a horrid embarrassment to M$ make me a zealot?)

post #96 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Just thought I'd chip in an opinion here as a an "all in" Apple fan and consultant.

I think MS might be able to pull this off, and agree with KarmaDave and select others that:
  • a) it will be the "alternative tablet OS" to iOS rather than Android, and
  • b) Win8 on tablets just might overtake iOS.

I agree with the first statement. Microsoft has the potential to take a serious bite out of Android sales (and a much smaller bite out of iOS sales). Android seems to be the OS for people who don't want an iPhone or iPad for some reason (often price). There are few people (other than a small number of geeks) who buy Android because it offers them something they really want. Furthermore, handset manufacturers who license Android must be very concerned about Google's acquisition of Motorola. In spite of Google's promises, the licensees are now competing with the licensor. Some of them will fork Android (Amazon) and others will look harder at Windows RT than they might have otherwise.

The second statement is pretty questionable. Microsoft has a LONG way to go before they approach iOS. First, they have to develop a good ecosystem. That means not only apps, but their phones and tablets and desktop systems need to work together in a smooth, transparent way. That's going to take a lot of work. More importantly, they need to figure out their business model. If they plan to be the manufacturer of tablets, they'd better rely on experience from their xBox people. Other than the xBox, their experience involves licensing, not manufacturing. And it's extremely difficult to do both - as I believe Google/Motorola is about to find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

IF Microsoft is truly honest with itself, they will realize that the consumer market is all tied up... for now at least... by Apple and Google. What neither of those competitors (include RIM here as well) have... or are going to have any time soon... is the deep reach into the backrooms of the enterprise that MS does.

While your statement is correct, it also contains several unstated assumptions. Ask RIM how well 'focus on the enterprise market where you're strong' has worked out.

There seems to be a switch in purchasing patterns over the last 10 years. Before that, the fact that many businesses required Windows drove many people to buy Windows at home. Currently, the opposite seems to be true - the fact that so many people are buying Apple products for personal use seems to be driving them into the Enterprise. I do not believe Microsoft can afford to give up the consumer market - it is far too important in maintaining their business position.
Edited by jragosta - 6/16/12 at 7:15am
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post #97 of 147

At first reading of this (Microsoft to build their own tablet), my instant reaction was that it would be a non-starter.

 

Reading forum comments here, and elsewhere, it seems that most agree -- but some interesting ideas have been offered.

 

So, all this info has been macerating in my subconscious...  and like a few others, I think there may be some possibilities:

 

1) There may be a large audience for a Windows RT Tablet, if...

 

2) There may be a business model where MS and OEMS can both offer Windows RT Tablets, if...

 

The big "ifs" are:

 

-- is MS astute enough to understand what they need to do, and when

-- is MS agile enough to carry it off

 

Note:  This post is about Windows 8 RT (ARM) Tablets (whatever they are called... some of the above, all of the above, any of the above, etc.).  Windows 8 Intel tablets are another topic altogether.

 

 

Some posters, here, have offered up some pretty good ideas -- and it is just possible that MS could pull it off.

 

 

The one thing, for me, that doesn't "compute" is:  Where are the manufacturing lines and supply chains... I don't believe that MS can get by with a place-holder for a product to be delivered in 6-12 months.


Edited by Dick Applebaum - 6/16/12 at 6:55am
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post #98 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Just thought I'd chip in an opinion here as a an "all in" Apple fan and consultant.

 

I think MS might be able to pull this off, and agree with KarmaDave and select others that:

  • a) it will be the "alternative tablet OS" to iOS rather than Android, and
  • b) Win8 on tablets just might overtake iOS.

 

Pretty bold, but let's be honest here. There's still millions upon millions of enterprises CIOs/IT departments waiting to see what they'll be able to do when MS finally delivers something.

 

IF Microsoft can build a tablet that:

  • a) works smooth... which by all reviews and accounts, it already does;
  • b) integrates compatible versions of Office/Exchange and Office365... which is a no-brainer really;
  • c) creates tools that allow fast deployment of business proprietary back-end software for Win8RT,
  • d) stays price competitive AND offers stellar business support....

 

...they're on-track to do what an analyst said they'd do be 2015. It was reported here on AI... and of course wildly scoffed at.

 

IF Microsoft is truly honest with itself, they will realize that the consumer market is all tied up... for now at least... by Apple and Google. What neither of those competitors (include RIM here as well) have... or are going to have any time soon... is the deep reach into the backrooms of the enterprise that MS does.

 

It took something like 10+ years before Microsoft finally had a "consumer" hit with WinXP. I don't count Win98, because it was still mostly for the Geeks & Gamers consumer... not soccer-moms, kids, or grandparents.

 

I did the most consumer WinXP installations using SP2 even, which came out late summer 2004. Imagine that!? Almost 20 years before a real consumer got onto a computer that functioned similar to a Mac. Which I'll agree, is somewhat of a misnomer :)

 

I'm sure MS will even open Win8 up to modding eventually... so the Metro-Tiles may be short-lived for those that really hate it.

 

IF Microsoft sticks to there core and ".exe--cutes" this well... they'll be OK.

 

PS. As a consultant, I have to stay up-to-date with what my customers want and need. I'm hearing all kinds of chatter and wishful-thinking from my business customers re: Win8... and I'm just doing my homework for that day when they all want Win8RT-SP2. That's how *I* stay in business.

 

This is a great post!

 

I have been retired for a while so I have no IT currency.   Also, our household is completely Windows/Office free (other than services Apple licenses from MS).

 

 

I want to concentrate on a part of the above post, and ask a few questions to get current?

 

 

 

Quote:

IF Microsoft can build a tablet that:

  • a) works smooth... which by all reviews and accounts, it already does;
  • b) integrates compatible versions of Office/Exchange and Office365... which is a no-brainer really;
  • c) creates tools that allow fast deployment of business proprietary back-end software for Win8RT,
  • d) stays price competitive AND offers stellar business support....

 

Specifically:

 

b) How much compatibility do Office apps (running on ARM) really need to satisfy, say, 80% of IT needs?  Let's assume that MS could rethink Word/Excel and friends, slim them down to satisfy most users, then add an elegant UI.

 

c) Where does MS-Access fit in all this?  Is it the tool/glue that interfaces the back-end proprietary software?  MS-Access was all the rage in the 90s -- but I never hear about it anymore.  If not Access, what tools are needed?

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post #99 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Specifically:

b) How much compatibility do Office apps (running on ARM) really need to satisfy, say, 80% of IT needs?  Let's assume that MS could rethink Word/Excel and friends, slim them down to satisfy most users, then add an elegant UI.

I think you're grossly underestimating the necessary level of compatibility. Most people open dozens, if not hundreds, of documents in an average week. if even a couple percent are messed up because of compatibility problems, that will prevent the adoption of alternatives. Look at OpenOffice. Compatibility is pretty good - probably 95+% for the documents that I use. But the fact that even a couple percent might be unreadable is a problem. The risk that I would send something to a customer and THEY might not be able to read it is an even greater problem. That is, IMHO, the main reason that Office alternatives never caught on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

c) Where does MS-Access fit in all this?  Is it the tool/glue that interfaces the back-end proprietary software?  MS-Access was all the rage in the 90s -- but I never hear about it anymore.  If not Access, what tools are needed?

Quite a few people still use Access, although many don't realize it. Often, when someone says that they have a back office tool which requires Windows, it may be Access. There's really not much of an alternative if your business uses Access.
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post #100 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Maybe Microsoft will name their new tablet "the Acme".

More likely will be  called Zap- Ballmer.

It's main objective is likely to stop M$ employees from using iPads  at work.

post #101 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I think you're grossly underestimating the necessary level of compatibility. Most people open dozens, if not hundreds, of documents in an average week. if even a couple percent are messed up because of compatibility problems, that will prevent the adoption of alternatives. Look at OpenOffice. Compatibility is pretty good - probably 95+% for the documents that I use. But the fact that even a couple percent might be unreadable is a problem. The risk that I would send something to a customer and THEY might not be able to read it is an even greater problem. That is, IMHO, the main reason that Office alternatives never caught on.

 

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for!

 

For an ARM tablet, are you saying that it must run 100% compatible Office apps on the device?  Or is there some meaningful subset to run on the device, and use the cloud to satisfy the top end... is this doable, today?

 

Quote:
Quite a few people still use Access, although many don't realize it. Often, when someone says that they have a back office tool which requires Windows, it may be Access. There's really not much of an alternative if your business uses Access.
 

Interesting...  Any ideas of what percentage use Access?  It was ubiquitous in the 90s and often used as an intermediary between the web, front office and backend SQL-Server class DBs.

 

 

What I am trying to get at is:  What does MS need to bring to the table for an ARM tablet -- to get IT on board?   I don't think that price will be the particular issue -- it just needs to supply what IT needs.

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post #102 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

I forgot all about those Windows 7 launch party videos... Thanks for posting that! Waaaay too funny!

 

 

Probably one of the most cringe-worthy marketing campaigns ever! 

post #103 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

That's not Photoshop.

That thing is real? Oh a MS tablet should do wonderfully lol
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post #104 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by focuspuller View Post

This could be bad for Apple.

 

When the Microsoft tablet fails totally and the clown Ballmer is finally removed by the Board, they may actually get somebody as CEO who has a clue.

 

This!

post #105 of 147

Nokia goes on life support - declared junk by the last of the three major credit-rating companies.  Ballmer certainly is a visionary! 

post #106 of 147

I've decided that instead of trying to make a meaningful post about the pros and cons of such a device, I'm going to draw similarities to Apple vs MS and Hogan's Heroes. Hogan (Apple) makes Klink (Balmer) look bad until the general (shareholders) starts talking about sending him to the Russian front.

 

Seriously, Microsoft has only one success in terms of major hardware: XBox 360. Maybe mice, keyboards and other similar peripherals. Maybe. Not sure about that. Zune was a decent contender but with all the marketing and R&D money in the world (ok so maybe not that much but still a lot), MS couldn't bring Apple's iPod down even just a little bit. 

 

The iPad is now in the same position. Granted nobody thought it would sell and that the name was reminiscent of Maxi-pads and other feminine hygiene products. Yet here it is destroying pretty much everything else on the market. Everyone rushed to get their piece of the pie and they aren't getting much. Crumbs basically. MS is dying in a mobile market it helped build. MS laughed when Apple said "we want a piece of the pie". Apple now owns the oven that bakes the pies. Balmer probably has nightmares mumbling about physical keyboards and being good at doing email.

 

Balmer is a joke. A laughingstock. He needs to step down. You want to compete with Apple? You want to take pages from their book? Destroy the current corporate culture and start over. Destroy the idea of trial-by-committee. You are so close to something different with this new Metro interface. It may not be amazing and it may not be revolutionary, but it's something so drastically different from the normal garbage you usually release. Don't let the corporate culture ruin it. Otherwise let someone else take the company in the drastic new direction it needs. MS is sinking and you're the hole in the hull.

 

I seriously feel bad for people at Microsoft. I bet a lot of them have really great ideas that will never see the light of day cause the execs and managers and committees are blind. I bet it took a lot of time and effort to rally the brass around Metro since it looked nothing like anything MS had ever crapped out before. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I would like to think that MS maybe starting to right the boat. 

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post #107 of 147
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
But the HP Slate was a complete failure, with a total of just 9,000 units sold by the end of 2010.
 
Look at it this way.  A working Apple I was just sold at Sotheby's for $375,000.
Just imagine how much a working HP Slate will be worth 36 years from now, in 2048.
Could have massive collector value.  Like a piece of the iceberg that sank Titanic.

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post #108 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for!

For an ARM tablet, are you saying that it must run 100% compatible Office apps on the device?  Or is there some meaningful subset to run on the device, and use the cloud to satisfy the top end... is this doable, today?

That's not what I'm saying at all. A tablet is useful even with 0% Office compatibility. The greater the compatibility, the more usefulness is added. But I don't expect that it will ever be the only determining factor - like it is with desktop computers. In most cases, tablets are used for viewing content. And when they're used for content creation, it's likely to be simpler documents rather than multipage spreadsheets and entire eBooks (there are exceptions, but they are relatively minor). If you're only reading (or even creating) a simple memo, any of the Office substitutes are compatible enough. It's only when you get into more complicated things that compatibility is an issue - and those things are not as common with Tablets. And if you're simply viewing content, incompatibility is only a minor annoyance - certainly nothing like sending everyone documents that they can't read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting...  Any ideas of what percentage use Access?  It was ubiquitous in the 90s and often used as an intermediary between the web, front office and backend SQL-Server class DBs.


What I am trying to get at is:  What does MS need to bring to the table for an ARM tablet -- to get IT on board?   I don't think that price will be the particular issue -- it just needs to supply what IT needs.

It's likely to be marketing and peer pressure that does it more than specific features. "Office compatible" still carries a lot of weight around the boardroom - even when it's not a major issue for the way tablets are used.
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post #109 of 147

Originally Posted by Relic View Post



This is great news, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I really hope these things take off as there really isn't reason why they shouldn't. I happen to like the Metro interface and if Microsoft embraces more media codecs then Apple does like Divx. Flash, ect. I will defiantly pick one up to use as a media pad. We need more competition not less, with Apples latest iOS 6 release it seems that they are now becoming complacent and if Microsoft is successful we will hopefully finally get a newer, better UI for the now aging iOS to compete. Just wishing here.

 

Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post
 

You're one of those people that like to slow down and gawk as you pass a flaming multi-car wreck, aren't you?

 

More like one of those people who are paid by Microsoft to troll and astroturf Apple-related sites.

I mean, why else would you "defiantly" pick up a Microsoft-branded iPad clone to use as a "media pad"?

Masochism?  Self-hatred?  Distaste for money?

 

Too bad it won't help Nokia at all, eh Microsofties?

(Nokia credit now labeled junk: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/15/nokia_credit_now_labeled_junk_by_all_three_major_credit_rating_agencies.html)

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post #110 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

<...>

 

I seriously feel bad for people at Microsoft. 

 

<...>

 

 

No, it is not you to say this, but, Ballmer, like the devil in Monty Python's "Time Bandits" : I feel so bad, so baaaad ....    !!!!!


Edited by umrk_lab - 6/16/12 at 10:35am
post #111 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangesauce View Post

I've never been a huge fan of MS, but in my book, they've got three things going for them in my book:

 

  1. Even though they ripped off Apple's UI and potentially caused them great loss for some time, they did push Apple to move toward a real preemptive multitasking OS.
  2. They came to Apple's aid during some dark times.  Apple may not be around today if it weren't for them, and they didn't take a pound of flesh to do it.
  3. In modern times, they built their own UI paradigm with Metro and are doing their best with it (instead of doing what Android did in 2008).

 

I don't think Metro is going to be a great success, but I do find it hard to be mean to them after they started playing fairly and do hope that they find a profitable niche that will allow them to be around for a long time.

 

What do you mean by "be mean to them"???? You think that's what this is about?

Do corporations have feelings?

 

First of all, if they did, I couldn't care less, because I GUARANTEE Microsoft doesn't care, love, or want any kind of emotional engagement from its users. User are collateral in a giant chess game that Microsoft plays with its competitors. They're MUCH MORE INTERESTED in vanquishing their competitors than actually making users happy. They just want you to buy their products, so they'll win the game. That's embedded in Microsoft's culture, and it comes directly from Bill Gates' early personality. It helps that corporations make buying decisions based on factors that don't include user happiness.

 

It's clear you are sympathetic to Microsoft, but I'm not going to be "nicer" to Microsoft because you think they're so wonderful and caring. I don't think that's unfair. I work in Fortune 500 and my company forces me to use Windows and other Microsoft products at work, which I put up with. I can barely tolerate them. Software with clumsy, fussy design, buttons galore, unintuitive user interface, and weird error messages. Applications that don't just work. Installations that fail. Contact your Administrator, says Windows. Yeah, you need an IT department to use Windows. And I've been putting up with this for decades. I come home and use my Mac and iPad, and it's breath of fresh air. That's the reason I dislike Microsoft: because they just don't get it. You can't just put shiny new Metro wallpaper over Windows 7 and convince me that Microsoft has changed its spots.

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post #112 of 147

well, i see no one here has considered that MS might team up with Barnes and Noble for a Windows RT version of the Nook. MS already made a deal with B&N months ago to invest in something ...

 

the advantages to both are obvious: MS gets a complete Bookstore/Reader instantly, and an established slightly successful partner brand. B&N gets special access to the future MS Windows ecosystem, maybe even including desktop Windows.

 

and of course they both team up to fight a mutual arch-enemy: Amazon.

 

The Nook RT will probably cost $100 more than the basic Nook. But that's still just $300 for a 7".

post #113 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

 

 

What I am trying to get at is:  What does MS need to bring to the table for an ARM tablet -- to get IT on board?   I don't think that price will be the particular issue -- it just needs to supply what IT needs.

 

 

Probably not too much.  Just what they do as a matter of course:  Provide a reasonably good UX, reasonably good compatibility and reasonably good security.  If they do that, inertia will supply middling to good sales.

 

But hey - I can't know the future.  I just expect that Microsoft will keep doing what they've been doing.  It  has worked OK so far, with a few notable exceptions.

post #114 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by richsadams View Post

 

 

Probably one of the most cringe-worthy marketing campaigns ever! 

 

 

That video was so bizarre that it was surrealistic.  It  is hard to believe that anybody, even (especially?) those in marketing, thought consumers would have launch parties.  Christ, not even Apple fans do that, and some of them are totally nuts.

post #115 of 147
Can't be argued on an apple site that building your own hardware is a good idea. Until the lumia came along win phones biggest problem was none of the hardware was as good as the iPhone.

Now a few serious reasons why Windows tablets could be a success:

1. Android tablets suck! Seriously I cannot believe how bad they look. Some people moan about the Win 8 UI, but at least it's got a clean layout like iOS. The android ui on tablets just looks a mess with awful icons.

2. Multiple logins. My iPad lives at home, I have no reason to take it anywhere but it quite clearly is my iPad. My wife cant have a photos on it, nor can she have her email on it, nor can it sync with her iTunes. It's a £400 device that we don't need 2 of, but it can only be set up for one user to use all the features. Seriously add logins!

3. The OS actually does something rather than just launch apps. It allows apps to talk to each other. It has live tiles to show information from apps without opening them.

4. Business. Apple has been slowly eating away at the enterprise market, but last week with ios 6 they made a huge mistake. Saying iOS 6 won't be on the orional iPad, not even for security updates is basically the same as saying the hardware you buy for us may only last 2 years before you have to replace it for security reasons. Now you can almost guarantee that no company out there wants to replace hardware every 2 years, and equally no company wants devices that are no longer getting security updates!
post #116 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

well, i see no one here has considered that MS might team up with Barnes and Noble for a Windows RT version of the Nook. MS already made a deal with B&N months ago to invest in something ...

the advantages to both are obvious: MS gets a complete Bookstore/Reader instantly, and an established slightly successful partner brand. B&N gets special access to the future MS Windows ecosystem, maybe even including desktop Windows.

and of course they both team up to fight a mutual arch-enemy: Amazon.

The Nook RT will probably cost $100 more than the basic Nook. But that's still just $300 for a 7".

A lot of us assumed this would happen after the recent announcement. But, is this a big enough announcement to have a special meeting?
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post #117 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Whether or not MS builds its own tablet, I think a Windows tablet has a reasonable chance of success for following reasons:

- MS still has a lions share of desktop OS - so any perceived compatibility or familiarity will give Windows tablets a boost out of the gate - even if there is no real similarity.

- Android tablets are in a mess - Samsung and Motorola just cannot compete with Amazon's $199 (and soon $149) tablets - plus the innumerable tablets at even less than $100 coming from dozens of companies. The Android tablet space has gotten commoditized before it even became big.

- Ecosystem is everything - and in Android's case, Amazon is the only one with some chance of success as an ecosystem. Google's ecosystem components (Mail, Docs, Youtube, etc) are available on all tablets, so that does not add any value to Android).

- MS will definitely have a version of Office available for its own OS. And you can bet that they will not support Android. They may or may not support iPad - or they might support iPad later on. Office will be a killer app for Windows tablets.

- MS is not as late to the tablet space as it was in Phones. Other than Apple, no one has managed success in tablets, so MS has a shot at being a respectable #2 if they don't mess things up. At some point, MS will release dev tools that allow compilation of existing Windows Apps for the tablet form factor.

- MS probably will not see anywhere near the patent hassles that other Android makers are seeing.

 

Your first point - While MS has the lion's share of Desktop OS, it is throwing that all away by not matching it with Windows 8, and Windows RT. Keep in mind that where MS is weakest is on the mobile computer market. This is where the movers and shakers are and this is where Apple has made the biggest impact with their iPhones and iPads. The desktop computers are operated by the worker bees in the corporate environment. They will run whatever the management sets in front of them. Management, as you ascend in the organization is more enamored with the iDevices and more likely to work on an Apple laptop than a Windows laptop. Generation Y and Z don't have any warm and fuzzy feelings about MS or Win computers unless they are gamers. That's a slim slice of the market. By being absent from the phone and music player markets MS has went AWOL from the consciousness of the 20-somethings. MS has in effect lost influence on a generation. 

 

Your second point - I agree. Android is a mess and owns the low-end commodity market. Apple doesn't want it and neither should MS. 

 

Your third point - I agree. The ecosystem is everything; and that includes the integration of the desktop computer with the mobile devices and laptops. In spite of MS naming their ARM OS similar to their Intel OS, there is very little integration of the two to date. I'm sure it will come about over time, but that's where Apple has a six year lead on MS. I expect Apple to exhibit a tighter integration of all devices be they Windows computers, OSX Apple computers, iPhones, iPads, or iPod Touches via iCloud. I do expect MS to exaggerate how tight they are going to make their integration, but they are still playing catchup and Apple will continue to press ahead. It will not be a cake walk for MS. 

 

Your fourth point - I agree. The MS Office is a power house of an app suite. Like you, I'm not thinking that they will port it to Android. However, MS is very concerned about monopolistic practices. Furthermore, Apple computers represent a very nice chunk of their Office revenue. I expect MS to make a version available to the iDevices. Perhaps a bit delayed, but available at some time soon. 

 

Your fifth point - Yes, MS has a chance at being a #2 vendor in the enterprise tablet market. And, like you, with the caveat that they don't mess up. Unfortunately MS is quite good at messing up. In the past, with their size in the OS market, they could afford to bumble their way along. In this faster moving market, such mis-steps have greater consequences. Also, MS doesn't lead in this market. They need to really tighten up their act to succeed. 

 

Your sixth point - I agree. MS is not copying Apple with their new OS. I'd be surprised if Apple sues MS this time around. 

 

An additional point - You didn't bring it up but MS has a long-standing good relationship with enterprise IT managers. They would be remiss in not leveraging it to see more of their phones and tablets sold to that market. However, in the meantime Apple has made some very powerful connection with the IT departments with the iPhones, iPads, and even with their Macs. Many of the enterprise IT departments are open to the BYOD concept. It's not as Windows exclusive world it once was. MS won't be able to button it back down, the horse has left the barn, Elvis has left the building, and the C-level management has been the greatest generator of this movement. 

 

Finally, If MS builds their own tablets, they will have a better chance of getting them placed in enterprise. But that would be at the expense of all their PC partners goodwill. It will be a tough row to hoe which ever way they chose to go. 

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post #118 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


A lot of us assumed this would happen after the recent announcement. But, is this a big enough announcement to have a special meeting?

 

It doesn't seem to be a big enough announcement to decorate the outside of the building, a la Apple. I mean, taping a sheet of copy paper to the front door is about all MS may do. Ballmer may don a sweat-soaked shirt and do a floor show act, but that's about the extent of effort. They don't even install UPs for their demo computers. No careful planning, no taste...

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #119 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Can't be argued on an apple site that building your own hardware is a good idea. Until the lumia came along win phones biggest problem was none of the hardware was as good as the iPhone.
Now a few serious reasons why Windows tablets could be a success:
1. Android tablets suck! Seriously I cannot believe how bad they look. Some people moan about the Win 8 UI, but at least it's got a clean layout like iOS. The android ui on tablets just looks a mess with awful icons.
2. Multiple logins. My iPad lives at home, I have no reason to take it anywhere but it quite clearly is my iPad. My wife cant have a photos on it, nor can she have her email on it, nor can it sync with her iTunes. It's a £400 device that we don't need 2 of, but it can only be set up for one user to use all the features. Seriously add logins!
3. The OS actually does something rather than just launch apps. It allows apps to talk to each other. It has live tiles to show information from apps without opening them.
4. Business. Apple has been slowly eating away at the enterprise market, but last week with ios 6 they made a huge mistake. Saying iOS 6 won't be on the orional iPad, not even for security updates is basically the same as saying the hardware you buy for us may only last 2 years before you have to replace it for security reasons. Now you can almost guarantee that no company out there wants to replace hardware every 2 years, and equally no company wants devices that are no longer getting security updates!

 

1. I hope that you don't think this UI looks better then even a crappy Android tablet. 

 

dell-win-8-1337890472.jpg

 

2. Multiple logins is a great idea. I'm not sure Apple sees iDevices as anything other then personal devices. Maybe there will be a change in store, after all, once all your personal data is in the cloud, the iDevice can be handed off to someone else to fill it back up with their iCloud data.

 

3. iOS 6 will allow apps to talk to each other as well as to the other computers and iDevices. If you look at the history of iDevices, it has been one of pushing the envelope as it grows. Apple is on their 6th iOS, it's being built up carefully over time, and has, for the most part, been pretty trouble-free. If MS thinks they can jump in with all the bells and whistles working as well as an Apple iDevice, then they are either foolish or have become better at writing software in the last year or so then in the preceding decades. 

 

4. You fault Apple for not supporting the first iPad with the latest iOS version for over two years. Yet no one else, HP, Dell, or anyone else has supported any of their discontinued tablets for over two years. Even RIM discontinued their first Playbook. The tablet market, like the phone market is evolving faster then the computer market. This may go on for a few more years. Third generation tablets will likely struggle with new versions of OS because of forward development of the CPU, GPU, cost of SSD storage and even pixel density. Let's see if anyone out-performs Apple on backward iOS support before thinking they messed up. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #120 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

2. Multiple logins is a great idea. I'm not sure Apple sees iDevices as anything other then personal devices. Maybe there will be a change in store, after all, once all your personal data is in the cloud, the iDevice can be handed off to someone else to fill it back up with their iCloud data.

I'm not sure multiple logins make sense (I'd even like a Secure Auto Login* feature for Mac OS) but I would like there to be a way you can allow guest access from the lock screen for limited app access, like web browser, Find My Friends, and other apps with limited accessibility in much the same way that you can now use the camera app.


* My vision of Secure Auto Login would allow your desktop to restart into a specific user so that all apps and settings are loaded before you input your password but it boots locked so you still maintain the same security as a locked machine.

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