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Nokia credit now labeled junk by all three major credit-rating agencies - Page 3

post #81 of 129

I still have and old Nokia 6010 from T Mobile. Got it in 2005 just after Katrina hit here in New Orleans. They gave them away...prepaid time, free cards too.

Still works, still has time on it. Bottom of the draw, took it out charged it up cool. Just basic phone but save my butt. Course not the same as the iPhone.

But good to know it still works.

post #82 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

LOL. Your own post proves your point.

 

Explain what a 'tangency' has to do with the point you're making?

 

Add: /s

Umm... How many tangents are there to a point?

 

Here's another one. Under what kind of curved space can parallel arguments collide??

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #83 of 129
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post #84 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Umm... How many tangents are there to a point?

 

Here's another one. Under what kind of curved space can parallel arguments collide??

Umm... how does tangentiality relate to orthogonality?

post #85 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

Anyone here posting that they want to see the end of Nokia have no idea of their history of innovation, or are too blinkered to see it. I'm not a huge fan of WP7, or any mobile OS in particular, I use Macs at home and work bit I'm pretty mobile platform agnostic, and to dismiss Nokia in that manner is like saying you were glad the Beatles broke up, as they had nothing more to offer.

 

Nokia used to make phones that they KNEW would bomb, simply because they could and should be made, to test boundaries, to promote innovation. Their R&D accounts for the majority of the technology we currently use in our phones and tablets. They promoted and funded open source in Symbian, Maemo, Meego. They have advanced mobile phone camera technology further than any other company by a country mile, and continue to do so with Pureview. That in my book should be applauded. The N900 is still the best phone/tablet I have ever used, or will I believe. (relative to its power and size).

 

I like the iPhone, and have owned all models but the 4s, I use a new iPad at home, but I could never imagine Apple or MS now releasing a product that was built simply because they knew they could, certain in the knowledge it wouldn't be enormously successful. They are too much about the bottom line. It's incremental updates, tie people in to your platform, milk milk milk. I know it's good business practice, and it's made them both a mint, but to dismiss Nokia's history of innovation and support for (genuine) open source software shows a total lack of historical knowledge. I would love to see Nokia survive and thrive, but I fear even if they do, the Nokia I grew up with and admired is gone. They could do what they did due in part to their position as the No.1 phone manufacturer by a huge margin - I acknowledge that, but there are others in the space now who fall short, there was also a culture of risk taking and openness within the company that I fear has been excised with these cuts and restructuring.

 

A sad end, even if they do survive. I genuinely hope I am wrong.

I'm not intending to throw any stones at Nokia when I say this, but with all their R&D they never got it as right as Apple did on their first iPhone. 

 

Nokia's idea of "testing boundaries" was really throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks. Phone companies are still doing that because they have no idea what their customers want. Apple, on the other hand, is plugged into what the market desires, even if their users don't know they want it.

 

Contrary to how others do it, Apple doesn't add something to the products until it works, and works as simply as possible. Even then, Apple doesn't have all the answers. The iDevice market is evolving rapidly in a myriad of directions. The app developers are awesome at making the kinds of apps I can't even imagine, and I'm sure many have taken Apple by surprise. This includes developers that write apps for jailbroken iDevices. 

 

If Symbian would have ever been as flexible as iOS, or if Nokia had thought to put together an app store and curate the apps, or if... only wishes were horseshoes... 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #86 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Phone companies are still doing that because they have no idea what their customers want. Apple, on the other hand, is plugged into what the market desires, even if their users don't know they want it.
This is B.S.

Phone companies have a pretty good idea about what customers want. They just need to look at who is turning a profit.

Whether or not they have the right staff/resources to duplicate that is the issue.
post #87 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

True.... but Apple also has a habit of re-inventing themselves and entering new markets. I just don't think companies like Nokia are able to do that.
Remember when Apple only sold computers? Then they jumped in the MP3 player market and eventually ended up changing the music industry in the process.


Maybe you should read up about the history of Nokia before making such incorrect comments
post #88 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I'm not intending to throw any stones at Nokia when I say this, but with all their R&D they never got it as right as Apple did on their first iPhone. 

I'm not intending to throw any stones at Apple when I say this, but it is easier when you get to look back at the work (good and bad) the innovators have done in the past.
post #89 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Maybe you should read up about the history of Nokia before making such incorrect comments

Maybe you should consider your words more carefully. Nokia, as a company, has made a great many changes (more than Apple and more drastic) since its inception in 18-BFE but nearly a 150 years of survival have absolutely no barring to his comment and the Apple that only 2 years ago made the tablet market profitable, only 4 years ago became the most profitable handset maker in the world, only 5 years ago reinvented the smartphone market and made it the only handset market segment worth watching, which only a decade ago made the stagnant PMP and digital music market viable to consumes and record labels alike, and barely past that came back from near death with a PC line that attracted users and vendor mimicry.

Where is Nokia's phoneix in all this? Where is their rise from the ashes? By this time in Apple's history there was a focused strategy and yet there seems to be little more from Nokia (or RiM) except a shuffling of cards. I like Lumia and I'm convinced WP7 was the only solution to stale there leak but all that is a short term goal. Where is the eschewing of the fat and focus on the near that will keep the lights on? Why do you think Nokia is making all the moves to allow them to capitalize on the future?
Edited by SolipsismX - 6/17/12 at 8:05pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #90 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Maybe you should read up about the history of Nokia before making such incorrect comments

You're right... Nokia has had a wonderful history.

But now we're talking about the present and future.

Check the headline of this article again for context.

Like SolipsismX asked... what's their phoenix? Their return to greatness? I'm sorry to keep mentioning Apple... but where's Nokia's iPod, iPhone and iPad?

The tone of your comment is that a 147 year old company should be able to weather any storm.

But they're not...

Let's be clear... I have nothing against Nokia. I wouldn't have even thought about them if this depressing article didn't call them to my attention.
post #91 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Let's be clear... I have nothing against Nokia. I wouldn't have even thought about them if this depressing article didn't call them to my attention.

That's an interesting point. Even back before Jobs came back to Apple as an interim-CEO people still looked to Apple to see what they were considering for the future. They weren't looked upon as market leaders or profitable juggernauts the way MS was (and is) back in the mid-90s, but Apple was still very influential in terms of innovation even if they had little success capitalizing on it.

I see MS trying new things that I think should succeed based on the merits of their efforts but I see non of that from Nokia or RiM. At least with Nokia I see a very attractive Lumia line but it's not good enough in and of itself to save hem. They will need more than "we're not the worse" if they want to see another decade.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #92 of 129

photo.JPG

post #93 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


Maybe you should read up about the history of Nokia before making such incorrect comments

 

Even on their best day they were no Apple.

 

They most certainly are not a loss to the industry or consumers. 

post #94 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I'm not intending to throw any stones at Nokia when I say this, but with all their R&D they never got it as right as Apple did on their first iPhone. 

 

Nokia's idea of "testing boundaries" was really throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks. Phone companies are still doing that because they have no idea what their customers want. Apple, on the other hand, is plugged into what the market desires, even if their users don't know they want it.

 

Contrary to how others do it, Apple doesn't add something to the products until it works, and works as simply as possible. Even then, Apple doesn't have all the answers. The iDevice market is evolving rapidly in a myriad of directions. The app developers are awesome at making the kinds of apps I can't even imagine, and I'm sure many have taken Apple by surprise. This includes developers that write apps for jailbroken iDevices. 

 

If Symbian would have ever been as flexible as iOS, or if Nokia had thought to put together an app store and curate the apps, or if... only wishes were horseshoes... 

 

Nokia had an App store years before Apple thought of the concept. Just as a point of note. I think one of the smartest things Apple have done was to pass the baton to devs, as they have improved upon some otherwise quite average functionality in the iphone and ipad, especially for core apps. I think you will find that symbian was rather more flexible than iOS is or will be. It still is. iOS is an excellent platform, but I certainly wouldn't list flexible as one of its fortes. Powerful? Yes? Popular? Certainly. Flexible? No.

 

I don't agree, not at all. Apple is not always plugged into the market, you make it sound like everything they do or release meets with total approval. It doesn't. Using Ping much?

 

"even if their users don't know they want it."   Are you serious? I think it may be more a case of compromises, you mean no-one using an iphone 4 wants turn by turn? No-one wanted new notifications until ios5? MMS? Flagged mail?


Edited by Scaramanga89 - 6/18/12 at 12:39am
post #95 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Even on their best day they were no Apple.

 

They most certainly are not a loss to the industry or consumers. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Even on their best day they were no Apple.

 

They most certainly are not a loss to the industry or consumers. 

 

Yes, they never invented anything you or anyone else use - no loss at all. Sent a text today? Made a call? Like that grid of apps on your phone or tablet? Used the App store? Taken a snap?

 


SolipsismX - this is what I was posting about.


Edited by Scaramanga89 - 6/18/12 at 12:36am
post #96 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Maybe you should consider your words more carefully.


Once again you you ignore the original statement, I will remind you about this
Quote:
True.... but Apple also has a habit of re-inventing themselves and entering new markets. I just don't think companies like Nokia are able to do that.

Please rewrite your posting using the above as your reference and try to disprove it.
post #97 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

You're right... Nokia has had a wonderful history.
But now we're talking about the present and future.
Check the headline of this article again for context.

Let's try to remember what state Apple was in years ago, how do you know that Nokia won't do the same, after all, they have been reinventing themselves for 150 years now.

You, me, no one else knows what is going to happen in the future, but it is rather naive to think Apple is the only one that can reverse issues.
post #98 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Let's try to remember what state Apple was in years ago, how do you know that Nokia won't do the same, after all, they have been reinventing themselves for 150 years now.
You, me, no one else knows what is going to happen in the future, but it is rather naive to think Apple is the only one that can reverse issues.

Who said Apple is the only company who can reverse issues? Lots of companies had some bad times and came back. But other companies didn't.

Apple was saved when Steve came back and fixed their product line. They really only had one major product line at the time... Macintosh computers. And it was a mess. After a little housekeeping, the funky-colored iMacs put Apple back on the map. That was only step 1

Apple didn't just stick to computers... they branched out. Like we've said... iPod, iPhone, iPad... 3 new consumer electronics markets.

And that's where I think Nokia will have some trouble. (my opinion)

You say Nokia has been reinventing themselves for 150 years... but it's mostly been in the communications industry.

So... what are they gonna do? Just speculate with me. Is their fate resting on the Lumia running Windows Phone?

The mobile phone market is cutthroat right now. There are a dozen companies selling phones.

And let's not forget the importance of timing. Apple entering the phone market in 2007 worked out pretty well for them. But Nokia staging a comeback in 2013 is pretty daring in my opinion. The threats from Samsung and rest of the Android army are bad enough... and then there's still Apple to contend with.

So if Nokia can't fix their problems with new phones... what's next? Tablets could be a step in the right direction... but Nokia will be battling PC manufacturers in a few months. And don't forget about the iPad and low-cost tablets like the Kindle Fire and whatever Google comes up with.

You're right... I can't predict the future. That's why we are having a discussion.

If the key to a company's survival is entering new markets... what new markets can Nokia enter and succeed in?
post #99 of 129

And here I am, two weeks into owning my Lumia 900, and I suddenly hear this.

Shame... I genuinely liked the phone over my iPhone 4. Not trolling - its a very nice bit of hardware and software.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VisualZone View Post

Hmm, great rebuttal...NOT!! Because I say they're both cr@p I'm a fanboy? So when someone doesn't agree with you they must be wrong? Maybe your opinion is cr@p.

 

p.s. I don't have an iPhone. My company pays for my cellphone so all I have to pay for is my land line.

 

p.s.s. One more thing Kerplunk...Microsoft blows!!

"Microsoft Blows" makes you sound like a fan boy. Stop popping candy rocks and kool aid, look at what you have posted and be ashamed of yourself.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #100 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

Who said Apple is the only company who can reverse issues?

You implied that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

You say Nokia has been reinventing themselves for 150 years... but it's mostly been in the communications industry.

Nope, as I said, go have a read about their history.
post #101 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Umm... How many tangents are there to a point?

 

Here's another one. Under what kind of curved space can parallel arguments collide??


Strictly speaking, a point alone does not have a tangent.

post #102 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


Let's try to remember what state Apple was in years ago, how do you know that Nokia won't do the same, after all, they have been reinventing themselves for 150 years now.
You, me, no one else knows what is going to happen in the future, but it is rather naive to think Apple is the only one that can reverse issues.


Let's hope Nokia can reverse its fortunes. The industry needs healthy competition. It's no good for Apple or anyone else for competitors to die off, one after another.

 

Having said that, Apple's comeback is far, far from a frequent occurrence in the history of the tech industry (or any industry).

post #103 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

 

 

 

 Sent a text today? Made a call? Like that grid of apps on your phone or tablet? Used the App store? Taken a snap?

 


 

 

Tell us how Nokia was involved in these things (not that it really matters at this point.)


Edited by Quadra 610 - 6/18/12 at 8:35am
post #104 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly75 View Post


The definition of a prime number?

 

It's a really tasty number with hardly any fat.

Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

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Do not overrate what you have received, nor envy others.
15" Matte MacBook Pro: 2.66Ghz i7, 8GB RAM, GT330m 512MB, 512GB SSD

iPhone 5 Black 32GB

iPad 3rd Generation, 32GB

Mac Mini Core2Duo 2.26ghz,...

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post #105 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

Then you are just a silly fanboy. It is a nice phone that by all accounts performs quite well.

-kpluck

I love how you insult the guy over a device you haven't even used yourself, let alone purchased.

Who's the silly one again? Other than you, I mean.
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #106 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Let's try to remember what state Apple was in years ago, how do you know that Nokia won't do the same, after all, they have been reinventing themselves for 150 years now.
You, me, no one else knows what is going to happen in the future, but it is rather naive to think Apple is the only one that can reverse issues.

Let's revisit your trolling in a year's time when Nokia have followed RIM down the toilet, because that's where both of them are heading. Nokia bet the farm on WindowsPhone and lost. It has nothing else. It's that simple.

We've seen century-old companies biting the bullet in this ecomony left, right and center - the age of a company has no bearing on it's future.
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #107 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

Even on their best day they were no Apple.

 

They most certainly are not a loss to the industry or consumers. 

 

When you were digging around in your man draw looking a totally useless statement to come up with, is this the best you could find?

post #108 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

When you were digging around in your man draw looking a totally useless statement to come up with, is this the best you could find?

I've no idea what a "man draw" is, but I can tell this response has some Nokia ties and that someone got hit a little too close to home.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #109 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Uh uh. It would appear you missed the point of my post. If you really wanted to be math-y about "a completely different line of thought or action" the word you would be searching for is "orthogonal" to, not "tangent" to. 

 

Be that as it may, I was simply suggesting that the original poster who said "doing a 360" was using a colloquial reference that just about anyone -- except, apparently, the snarky guy who took off on him about his and America's math knowledge, and to whom I was responding -- reading his post understood.

 

Many such colloquial references use lousy math concepts (including the one you cite, which you obviously did not realize).

 

Sigh. "Doing a 360" is a fancy basketball dunk, or sometimes a fancy dive into water, and so on. By changing his phrase you're putting words in the mouth of the original poster who got it wrong. When he's referring to turning tables--as the original poster was referring to--then turning tables 360 degrees results in no net change. If anything, he should have said "doing a 180" (to use your turn of phrase).

 

Normally saying "turning the tables" is enough to imply 180. But he added the 360 for emphasis, which made it funny.

 

But, since you're obviously new to basic math, I'll point out that "a completely different line of thought" does not have to be orthogonal to another line of thought, as you seem to assert. Orthogonal means "at right angles". However, a completely different line can be formed simply by changing a line's slope or y-intercept. It does not require a right angle, i.e., it does not require orthogonality. So in summary, a completely different line of thought does not imply orthogonality to another line of thought.

 

So no, the term I was searching for was not "orthogonal". Rather, "on a tangent" was simply intended as a humorous colloquial idiom that happened to be math-related. Man, some people really can't take a joke! :)

 

Anyhow, sounds like your primary complaint is with the use and definition of "on a tangent". May I suggest you take it up Merriam-Webster or the Oxford English Dictionary, not here in the forum. :)


Edited by ShinySteelRobot - 6/18/12 at 10:17am
post #110 of 129

My gawd, the literal interpretation of mixed metaphors.  There are truly few things on the internet of less importance to humanity.

.
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.
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post #111 of 129

Please tell me how you could say that Nokia's hardware and software look like crap? Did you ever own one?

post #112 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeiFeR123 View Post

Please tell me how you could say that Nokia's hardware and software look like crap? Did you ever own one?

Don't have to own one to know how something looks.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #113 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Don't have to own one to know how something looks.

Can you point out Saturn from photos of different planets? Can you opine as to what Hollywood actress is more actress despite never seeing them in person? He didn't say it "feels" like crap, but it "looks" like crap. I disagree on all counts but he's only referring to aesthetics which does seem to vary widely.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #114 of 129
That's what I'm saying, isn't it? His belief is subjective, but whether he owned one isn't a factor in being able to form it.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #115 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


I've no idea what a "man draw" is, but I can tell this response has some Nokia ties and that someone got hit a little too close to home.

I stand corrected. Was in a hurry and wrote "draw" when I meant "drawer". Regardless I guess that means you two are cut from the same clueless cloth in regards to Nokia and its history...

 

For your edification: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgUpDGAIdds (The Man Drawer)... You're welcome...

post #116 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

I stand corrected. Was in a hurry and wrote "draw" when I meant "drawer". Regardless I guess that means you two are cut from the same clueless cloth in regards to Nokia and its history...

Thanks for the correction, but I fail to see where I've provided any sort of statement that would warrant that accusation. I've said they'll be dead in a year or two, but nothing about their worthiness.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #117 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Nope, as I said, go have a read about their history.

I did.

In the early days... Nokia was involved in making wood pulp, cables, rubber, footwear, tires, electrical generation, etc. Then in the 1960s they got into semiconductors, electronics, televisions, and telecommunications. In short... Nokia made all sorts of stuff.

However... in the 1980s Nokia spun off their tire manufacturing and rubber boot manufacturing. And during the 1990s... Nokia divested itself of all of its non-telecommunications businesses.

Face it... Nokia is now a mobile phone and communications company... regardless of their illustrious history of making paper, rubber boots and tires.

Sorry if that sounds snarky... but you keep mentioning Nokia's history... even though that has little to to with the problems they face today in the mobile phone industry.

Again... I'm not knocking Nokia... but they were simply unable to cope with what was happening around them.

Samsung recently stole the crown of largest mobile phone manufacturer... a title that Nokia had for over a decade.

I certainly don't think Nokia will ever go out of business, however. They still make lots of products. But it's a different world now.
post #118 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post


Sorry if that sounds

Sorry, you were the one that mentioned history, you were the one that claimed no one could reinvent themselved like Apple, you, not me
post #119 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

Let's revisit your trolling in a year's time when Nokia have followed RIM down the toilet, because that's where both of them are heading. Nokia bet the farm on WindowsPhone and lost. It has nothing else. It's that simple.

Trolling? Oh, that's right, I am on Appleinsider, when you are a troll if you disagree about anything, thanks for putting me in my place.

Again, I will say this, I don't know what the future holds for Nokia, they might be brought out in a few months, who knows, it is in the future, and like anything in the future, no one knows what is going to happen. But lets get back to what I was replying to, companies reinventing themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

We've seen century-old companies biting the bullet in this ecomony left, right and center - the age of a company has no bearing on it's future.

Who has ever say it did have a bearing. Sorry, you need to go back and re-read things, the age of the company isn't being discussed at all, the person I responsed too was talking about companies reinventing themselves.
post #120 of 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Sorry, you were the one that mentioned history, you were the one that claimed no one could reinvent themselved like Apple, you, not me

Wait a minute... earlier you said I implied that. Remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You implied that

Sorry if what I said sounded like a claim... I seriously didn't intend it to be.

Anyway... you've told me TWICE to go back and look at Nokia's history... which I have. But you never say anything beyond that.

What, specifically, am I looking for in Nokia's history?

Thanks to you... I've learned more about Nokia in the past 2 days than I ever knew before. They have some interesting history. But none of that can explain the current funk they are in.

All I can see is that Nokia used to be the biggest manufacturer of mobile phones... but they are now experiencing tremendous competition.
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