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Developers at WWDC not worried about iPhone, iPad screen size changes - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That has never been his position. It's always been, just like mine and others, that the 6th generation iPhone with a presumed Apple A6 chip running iOS 6 would not be called iPhone 5. Additionally, the argument arose when people stated that iPhone 6 didn't make any sense when '5' was erroneously rationalized to come after '4S'.

You guys are just as irrational to think that just because this is the sixth phone, it's also the sixth generation. You also don't understand the marketing considerations.

But it's really not important at all. It doesn't matter what it's called.
post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post


Yes, I know all about it, we've discussed this many times. What Google says is nice, but the real world is that is doesn't work well at all.

If Android can't lay out basic GUI elements using the prescribed XML-based approach supported / documented by Google, then Google really dropped the ball. For the time being, a robust resolution-independent layout mechanism is infinitely more important to Android than to iOS.

post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by avium View Post

If Android can't lay out basic GUI elements using the prescribed XML-based approach supported / documented by Google, then Google really dropped the ball. For the time being, a robust resolution-independent layout mechanism is infinitely more important to Android than to iOS.

The problem is that their method tries to do what isn't possible. With fragmentation of the hardware market, not only are there phones with different sized screens and resolutions, there are phones with different ratios. And that's one place where their software doesn't work well.

So circles get turned into ellipses, ellipses get turned into circles. Squares turned into rectangles, rectangles into squares. Fixed size graphics and photos are either mis-sized, or left the same size, messing up the composition of the page. Parts of the page are offscreen, never to be seen again. Type is too small or too big, etc.

Then manufacturers try to make "tablets" with 2.33 or earlier which Google says very strongly is NOT a tablet OS. That makes things even worse.

No one used 3.0 to any great extent, and even now, eight months after introduction, 4 is just at 7% adoption. It's a mess!
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You guys are just as irrational to think that just because this is the sixth phone, it's also the sixth generation. You also don't understand the marketing considerations.
But it's really not important at all. It doesn't matter what it's called.

I'm only considering the marketing considerations. It's the only rational position for the consumer to make. If an Apple engineer who works on the internals wants to say that it was the casing that mostly changed from the 1st to 2nd iPhone thereby making the SoC the same generation YoY then his position would be valid. If 3GPP wants to say that UMTS at ~300kb/s is the same generation as HSPA+ at ~80Mb/s because of certain technologies used then they have that right but that doesn't mean that the technology used to increase the speeds is uses the same generation of technology and equipment. LTE is on it's 3rd generation mobile HW yet from the consumer's PoV it's just being labeled 4G tech. I would have expected you to know the PoV makes a difference.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm only considering the marketing considerations. It's the only rational position for the consumer to make. If an Apple engineer who works on the internals wants to say that it was the casing that mostly changed from the 1st to 2nd iPhone thereby making the SoC the same generation YoY then his position would be valid. If 3GPP wants to say that UMTS at ~300kb/s is the same generation as HSPA+ at ~80Mb/s because of certain technologies used then they have that right but that doesn't mean that the technology used to increase the speeds is uses the same generation of technology and equipment. LTE is on it's 3rd generation mobile HW yet from the consumer's PoV it's just being labeled 4G tech. I would have expected you to know the PoV makes a difference.

I understand POV very well. But what I'm seeing here is the use of the word "irrational" to describe those who don't agree on this. That's more than just POV. And Cook himself blurred the lines in his interview. Considering that virtually everyone calls this the iPhone5, perhaps the very few who think that it's really the iPhone 6 are the ones with the cockeyed worldview.

I don't care one way or the other, but I do think that making an assumption that this is THE Gen6 phone, and therefor, if a number is assigned, it MUST be 6, is nuts.

It might be 6, but none of the arguments I've seen assure that it must be. Even though you and our other friend think so strenuously otherwise, there are a number of ways of looking at this that are just as valid, and possibly more valid. But you're not willing to look at them and say that we might have a point. You just dismiss them out of hand.

In one way or another, I've been involved in advertising and marketing my whole adult life. I think I understand some of it by now.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I understand POV very well. But what I'm seeing here is the use of the word "irrational" to describe those who don't agree on this. That's more than just POV. And Cook himself blurred the lines in his interview. Considering that virtually everyone calls this the iPhone5, perhaps the very few who think that it's really the iPhone 6 are the ones with the cockeyed worldview.
I don't care one way or the other, but I do think that making an assumption that this is THE Gen6 phone, and therefor, if a number is assigned, it MUST be 6, is nuts.
It might be 6, but none of the arguments I've seen assure that it must be. Even though you and our other friend think so strenuously otherwise, there are a number of ways of looking at this that are just as valid, and possibly more valid. But you're not willing to look at them and say that we might have a point. You just dismiss them out of hand.
In one way or another, I've been involved in advertising and marketing my whole adult life. I think I understand some of it by now.


Regardless of what they call it it's the generation 6 iPhone that will appear in the 6th year since its release which a very distinct line drawn between it and each of the other 5 models that came before it and has absolutely no barring on what the nomenclature, hence AI, myself and others using "6th generation iPhone" instead of calling it iPhone 5, iPhone 6, 'the new iPhone.' etc.. This can not be argued!

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Regardless of what they call it it's the generation 6 iPhone that will appear in the 6th year since its release which a very distinct line drawn between it and each of the other 5 models that came before it and has absolutely no barring on what the nomenclature, hence AI, myself and others using "6th generation iPhone" instead of calling it iPhone 5, iPhone 6, 'the new iPhone.' etc.. This can not be argued!

That's just your opinion, and I think it's wrong.
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's just your opinion, and I think it's wrong.

So you're a 'model identifier' man, eh? lol.gif

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

So you're a 'model identifier' man, eh? lol.gif

As much as anyone else.
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As much as anyone else.

Well, you're more so than Apple apparently, as the iPhone 4 is the "3,1", so Apple must be wrong.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Well, you're more so than Apple apparently, as the iPhone 4 is the "3,1", so Apple must be wrong.

I don't even know what you're talking about there.
post #52 of 58

They could make it longer and wider... also rounder. Then they could call it "the iStick", and it would sell well with the ladies. Hmmm. Forget I said anything.

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply

Social Capitalist, dreamer and wise enough to know I'm never going to grow up anyway... so not trying anymore.

 

http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/07/16/7-high-school-girls-are-kickstarting-their-awa...

Reply
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't even know what you're talking about there.

Internally Apple numbers their models with the iPhone just as they've done with their other Darwin-based products.

iPhone — 1,1
iPhone 3G — 1,2
iPhone 3GS — 2,1
iPhone 4 (GSM) — 3,1
iPhone 4 (CDMA) — 3,3
iPhone 4S — 4,1

So using Apple system of determining major architectural changes there have been 4 distinct models from the PoV of the SoC engineers.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Internally Apple numbers their models with the iPhone just as they've done with their other Darwin-based products.
iPhone — 1,1
iPhone 3G — 1,2
iPhone 3GS — 2,1
iPhone 4 (GSM) — 3,1
iPhone 4 (CDMA) — 3,3
iPhone 4S — 4,1
So using Apple system of determining major architectural changes there have been 4 distinct models from the PoV of the SoC engineers.

Ok, so that goes with my saying that the next iPhone would be a fifth gen model, and not a sixth gen model, along with other indicators, such as case, display, etc.
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ok, so that goes with my saying that the next iPhone would be a fifth gen model, and not a sixth gen model, along with other indicators, such as case, display, etc.

But what you're saying has no baring on the reality of the consumer market. You've never once qualified your statement to refer to the architectural design of the SoC.

On top of that, those primary values do not have one to one relationships with the case designs. If it did then the iPhone 3G would be listed as 2,1 not 1,2.

The new MBAs that were updated are the next generation MBAs. This is how we know it's the new model. I can't imagine if someone asked you which MBA to buy you'd say it doesn't matter because they haven't had a new generation in x many years simply because the case looks the same.

The term in technology was born out of the definition "all of the people born and living at about the same time." Do you not think of your daughter as a new generation over you when she has half your DNA and half your wife's DNA? Of course you do, and in that same vain the 2012 iPhone will be the 6th generation iPhone that Apple will have put out YoY since 2007 in a very public and well known event where have clearly made the generational demarcation point.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Ok, so that goes with my saying that the next iPhone would be a fifth gen model, and not a sixth gen model, along with other indicators, such as case, display, etc.

To which I already replied something to the effect of, "Apparently Apple doesn't even know this, as they called their 3rd gen model the 'iPhone 4'."

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

But what you're saying has no baring on the reality of the consumer market. You've never once qualified your statement to ref to the architectural design of the SoC.
On top of that, those primary values do not have one to one relationships with the case designs. If it did then the iPhone 3G would be listed as 2,1 not 1,2.
The new MBAs that were updated are the next generation MBAs. This is how we know it's the new model. I can't imagine if someone asked you which MBA to buy you'd say it doesn't matter because they haven't had a new generation in x many years simply because thecase looks the same.
The term in technology was born out of the definition "all of the people born and living at about the same time." Do you not think of your daughter as a new generation over you when she has half your DNA and half your wife's DNA? Of course you do, and in that same vain the 2012 iPhone will be the 6th generation iPhone that Apple will have put out YoY since 2007 in a very public and well known event where have clearly made the generational demarcation point.

Really, you guys can just keep saying whatever you want to. But in the end it doesn't matter. Apple will call this whatever they want to, and that will make it correct
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Really, you guys can just keep saying whatever you want to. But in the end it doesn't matter. Apple will call this whatever they want to, and that will make it correct

I've clearly stated from the beginning that the marketing name has no barring on the internal architectural generation or the YoY generational name. My stance has always been that Apple could call it iPhone 5 but calling the 6th iPhone running iOS 6 with a presumed Apple A6 chip is not likely to be called an iPhone 5. You can say that those three things make it perfectly logical to call it an iPhone 5 but it doesn't.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
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