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Microsoft unveils 'Surface' Windows 8 tablet - Page 5

post #161 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

same price, less battery, less memory, more fragile, worse keyboard, worse mouse, worse ecosystem (so far), more heat, smaller screen, no OSX and i could go on and on. so the air is better.

 

and the iPad is also better as a tablet.

 

this is the galaxy note of the tablets (compromises). it's up to you to choose, but it will sell.

 

what?

 

Where is the price? windows 8 has worse ecosystem? what?

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post #162 of 505

I don't really see this as a competitor to the iPad. They really didn't mention much about the iPad, nor did they hint at it except for the inclusion of Office. I see this more as a competitor to Android tablets. I doubt it will beat the iPad, but I do see this as a major competitor to Android tablets which are just rubbish. If I were Google, I'd be worried. If I were Apple, I'd be interested, but not 100% worried. Apple is way in front of the game and M$ has a lot of catching up to do. 

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post #163 of 505
If it looks good from where you're "at", then you're in Dumbsville, because this is MS, whose execution of any idea, good or bad, is questionable, at best.
post #164 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton View Post

No pricing announced. Battery life? Is this thing supposed to sit on a desk or on your lap? Will the kick stand snap? How much are those smart covers with keyboards on them? What is Windows RT, I thought it was for tablets but now it seems it's only for half the tablets? There's a keyboard and a pen and a USB port for a mouse!

 

Don't worry your head over all those questions. This Vapor-ware. It will never see the light of day. Did you catch the shot where they flipped the cover back, and since it was heavier then the tablet, it did a whoopsie and flipped off the table??

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #165 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlcool View Post

Isn't the Apple's SmartCover magnetic hinge patented? Bring on the injunction! =) 
I doubt that a magnet used a hinge will be owned by Apple unless a specific method for the hinge on a computer device that is being copied and I don't see any unique traits to Apple's Smart Cover being duplicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

what?

Where is the price? windows 8 has worse ecosystem? what?
On the Win8 RT ecosystem, absolutely.

Then there is the issue of Win8 apps for x86 running on that CULV processor that is possibly under-clocked and with less RAM than most Windows apps are designed around. There will be confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Don't worry your head over all those questions. This Vapor-ware. It will never see the light of day. Did you catch the shot where they flipped the cover back, and since it was heavier then the tablet, it did a whoopsie and flipped off the table??
1) I don't think it's vapourware.

2) The heavy cover issue is not good.

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #166 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

I think there may be a nice response to the Intel version as it will run legacy software and is very portable. On the downside, it will be more like a MBA in that can't work too hard due to the heat restrictions. So, people that want a MBP for performance would not be attracted to this hardware. If I had a choice between a MBA and this, I think I'd still go MBA due to it's "out of the briefcase" simplicity, and it instant start up. 

 

However the ARM version may be a much harder sell for MS. First, it''s not expected to be priced less, second, the MS ARM version will have very little apps to begin with. 

 

My take-away is that MS is going to strongly push the need for a keyboard with system 8, Intel version or ARM version. I expect Apple to say, "Why type, when you can talk?" 

 

My bet is that TALK will win over TYPE.

 

except for most of hte world, where the talking in iOS is only a gimmick.  Even then, after the 14th time saying the same word only to have it fail, it fails as a gimmick.

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post #167 of 505
You Windows fans are just plain stupid, sniffing shit and saying it doesn't stink.

Give me a break.

If you really like crap, then eat it away from us.
post #168 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by theskivvys View Post

verge-lb-890.jpg

 

Whoops the Surface crashed already during the presentation, ah well just grab another one!

Wait, is that Dean Pelton?

post #169 of 505

Here's their horribly terrible fragmented vision coming to life.  Anyone else notice that they don't provide many actual details of the hardware?  Or that the 'smart cover' ripoff is called "The Vapor"?

post #170 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

He's a Microsoft FAN desperate for anything - literally ANYTHING - marketed as an iPad competitor with an MS logo on it. 

THAT is how much it positively sucks to be an MS fan these days. Or these . . . years. 
I just don't get how people can be all ready to ditch an existing product for something that has no price or release date and obviously something they haven't been able to test out in person. I could understand if you played around with one in a MS or Best Buy store and liked it but how can anyone at this point say it beats a MacBook Air? Just by looking at it there's no way that keyboard can match a MBA keyboard and trackpad. Nevermind we have no idea what the battery life will be or how not it will run.
post #171 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

 

 

Now, THAT is so much like MS. No build-up (not that it would help), no special invitations, other than a call to the desk at L.A. Times to "send a couple of your boys down, the Monkey wants to dance."

 

MS announcing a product that isn't shipping for an OS that isn't shipping to a crowd that is there.


I think you are wrong. Maybe you weren't checking non-Apple tech sites much lately. Build-up and hype among Windows followers was strong, as both this presentation, and one that follows on Wednesday, were announced time ago but MS was very quiet about what will actually be presented. Tech sites and blogs were full of wild guessing, analysis and whatnot.

 

Maybe not yet on the level of Apple's masterly hype building, but getting there. In addition, it seems that disappointment after actual announcement is also not on the level with Apple's event, where much more people expect more and get less.

post #172 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

And you have?
No. What's your point?
post #173 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I doubt that a magnet used a hinge will be owned by Apple unless a specific method for the hinge on a computer device that is being copied and I don't see any unique traits to Apple's Smart Cover being duplicated.
On the Win8 RT ecosystem, absolutely.
Then there is the issue of Win8 apps for x86 running on that CULV processor that is possibly under-clocked and with less RAM than most Windows apps are designed around. There will be confusion.
1) I don't think it's vapourware.
2) The heavy cover issue is not good.

 

The SmartCover patent is D658,186. I'm sure the use of magnet as a hinge is unique and could be stipulated on this patent. All I know is MS ripped this off!

 

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/04/apple-wins-patents-for-ipad-smart-cover-itunes-store-more.html

post #174 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Worked out pretty well for our RIMM and the playbook!
True, that. LOL
post #175 of 505

The iPad at 9.7" has a higher resolution display that their 10.6" 2048-by-1536 vs 1920-by-1080. They have not quoted the price how do you know it's less money (probably less that the MacBook Pro with Retina, but not less that iPad). Will be running Windows 8 an OS that so far has not been getting glowing reviews (Granted it's not finished yet). They have quoted a Core i5 but at what speed? What battery life? WHAT THE HELL!

post #176 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter View Post

Just watched the promo video at http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en/us/default.aspx - looks like something dreamt up by the director for Lady Gaga's Allejandro video...

It's the only tablet available [at some unannounced future date] that supports a chadless papertape reader and Nevada CoBOL on Tarball -- MS BASIC optional.
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- Michael Lille -
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post #177 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldobushman View Post

Mistake. MS offering too many devices and not coordinated with an OS, And not available now, and not in stores, no price mentioned. Poorly done annoincement.
Might be an interesting product.

 

It's MS's attempt to let some air out of Apple's tires by getting people to want to wait and see this Vapor-doofus in a store before buying an Apple product. 

 

Not only was the announcement poorly done, they accidently dropped the tablet, and the turnout for the presentation was late and poorly attended. Look at (1) the small size of the press corps, and (2) the number of Apple products being used by the reporters. What a HOOT!!!

 

Finally, imagine you are trying to cover this event with a kickstand on your screen, a floppy keyboard with no back-lighting, and on a two-hour battery life. There were some iPads also present but not shown in this photo. Where are the netbooks? lol.gif

 

 

Picture 37.png

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #178 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I doubt that a magnet used a hinge will be owned by Apple unless a specific method for the hinge on a computer device that is being copied and I don't see any unique traits to Apple's Smart Cover being duplicated.
On the Win8 RT ecosystem, absolutely.
Then there is the issue of Win8 apps for x86 running on that CULV processor that is possibly under-clocked and with less RAM than most Windows apps are designed around. There will be confusion.
1) I don't think it's vapourware.
2) The heavy cover issue is not good.

Apple's iPad Smart Cover patent (D658,186). Using a magnet as a hinge for sure is unique and have never been seen anywhere on a gadget or else Apple will not be granted with this patent. I can smell an injunction here!

post #179 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

you drank the free Kool-aid they handed out, didn't you?  :-)


No, he's just more than wise enough to recognise product with potential, without usual fanboy uber-bias blinds... even if he is not pro-MS.

 

A quality worth respect, in my opinion.

post #180 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by theskivvys View Post

verge-lb-695.jpg

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

Hahah love the stance.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gchriste View Post

Hahah love the stance.

It's a nice WIDE stance... like an un-named Senator from Utah.

I think it is ballet second position (see http://dance.about.com/od/stepsandmoves/ss/Ballet_Five_2.htm)

I never would have thought Ballmer secretly wished he was a ballerina.

post #181 of 505

You think it will come with Bob?

post #182 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid View Post

I'm sorry but the people in charge of naming MS's garbage needs to be shot! Xbox; dumb but not real bad, Zune; it sounds like a 3 year old trying to say zoo with a mouth full of marshmallows. Now we have"surface". ooooOOOOooooo..... The surface of what? A polished turd? Stupid is as stupid does I guess.



Well you would know Forrest.
post #183 of 505
Any bets on how many posts this thread will accumulate? 450? 600?

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post #184 of 505

you people are funny....

 

show of hands for anyone who has actually held this product?

 

I myself am not interested in any tablet or even laptop but I can see a cool idea here...

 

do I think it will sell? not too well.

 

but Windows 8 is actually pretty cool...but waayyyy too limiting...OSX and Windows 7 are better IMO.

 

But I'm a desktop kinda guy...Metro isn't for me period.

post #185 of 505
It isn't a tablet or a laptop. It isn't innovative or traditional. It isn't cute or ugly. It isn't even schizophrenic. It isn't really anything.

What a lot of nonsense.
post #186 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlcool View Post

The SmartCover patent is D658,186. I'm sure the use of magnet as a hinge is unique and could be stipulated on this patent. All I know is MS ripped this off!


http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/04/apple-wins-patents-for-ipad-smart-cover-itunes-store-more.html
I see a design patent but their design is different from Apple's design. The general utility of magnet at the hinge is similar but where is the patent or reasoning that no one else can have a patent for magnet on or around a hinge.

Also not that a magnet on a power plug predates MagSafe by at least a couple decades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlcool View Post

Apple's iPad Smart Cover patent (D658,186). Using a magnet as a hinge for sure is unique and have never been seen anywhere on a gadget or else Apple will not be granted with this patent. I can smell an injunction here!
What is unique about using magnets? What is unique about the hinge? Where is the patent that says the two used together are exclusive to Apple. If Henry Ford took the internal combustion engine and was first the use it in a 16-cyclinder engine does that make it exclusive to him for using 16 cylinders or would it be up to the implementation that allowed it all function.

There is also something called reverse engineering. I have a feeling MS will be about to sell their unfortunately named magnetic cover.

And what about the integrated keyboard? Doesn't that make it unique or do you think a Samsung lawyer have a problem distinguished the segmented Smart Cover from MS's version.

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post #187 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by battiato1981 View Post

... wow, is that real or is someone having some photoshop fun?

 

"I told you home boy - Can't touch this!"

 

I kind of like the keyboard cover bit, but as has been pointed out you can get a Logitech version of that today for the iPad if it's a keyboard you miss.

post #188 of 505
Quote:
OTheThe iPad at 9.7" has a higher resolution display that their 10.6" 2048-by-1536 vs 1920-by-1080. They have not quoted the price how do you know it's less money (probably less that the MacBook Pro with Retina, but not less that iPad). Will be running Windows 8 an OS that so far has not been getting glowing reviews (Granted it's not finished yet). They have quoted a Core i5 but at what speed? What battery life? WHAT THE HELL! iPad at 9.7" has a higher resolution display that their 10.6" 2048-by-1536 vs 1920-by-1080. They have not quoted the price how do you know it's less money (probably less that the MacBook Pro with Retina, but not less that iPad). Will be running Windows 8 an OS that so far has not been getting glowing reviews (Granted it's not finished yet). They have quoted a Core i5 but at what speed? What battery life? WHAT THE HELL!The iPad at 9.7" has a higher resolution display that their 10.6" 2048-by-1536 vs 1920-by-1080. They have not quoted the price how do you know it's less money (probably less that the MacBook Pro with Retina, but not less that iPad). Will be running Windows 8 an OS that so far has not been getting glowing reviews (Granted it's not finished yet). They have quoted a Core i5 but at what speed? What battery life? WHAT THE HELL!riginally Posted by jstephe View Post
 

They did say that the price of the ARM device will be similar to "other" tablets. The Intel device is expected to sell for "about" the price of a Netbook. However, that may not include any extras like the kayboard, for example. It may not even include the kickstand. I suspect they are aiming at the MBA price, and unless MS underwrites the cost to promote the product, it will be the same as the MBA. 

 

I think the ARM tablet will bomb, and the Intel tablet will do middling okay. The iPad has a wonderful ecosystem in place and most fortune 2000 companies are already allowing BYOD. So, there's little incentive for enterprise to buy this when the employees' tablets are no cost. In addition, the employees are bringing their own iPhones, whike the C-level management LOVE the hell out of the MBA. 

 

I can see the MS rep bringing in this Frankentablet to show management and saying, "Where can I plug this in," and the management saying, "Why?"

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post #189 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjlcool View Post

Isn't the Apple's SmartCover magnetic hinge patented? Bring on the injunction! =) 

 

Oh don't go there! If Apple does that, I expect posts like "So Apple invented magnets now?"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #190 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Everyone on the tech blogs is drooling over this and calling Apple's smart cover now a dumb cover. But I wonder what it will be like to type on this thing. The CW is that Apple needs to be afraid of this, but I'm thinking Microsoft screwed over all the OEM's committed to Windows 8 tablets a they'll be competing with Microsoft's own tablet. And Google as Android tablets are probably dead now.


Or, MS is saying to OEMs "you cannot blackmail us with Android, because we will make our own". It is hardly a secret that, outside of Nokia, other OEMs did Windows Phone 7 just as "mee-too", but without much enthysiasm. I think MS simply tried to avoid this repeating with tablets. I think they are also trying to set standards and avoid/minimize market being overtaken by low quality product that would, on the long run, have more potential to damage than to benefit platform. It is a message to OEMs: If you want to sell this, you'll have to be at least as good as we are.

 

Re competition, it is normal in Windows market. MS does keyboards and mice, so does anyone else making PCs. So does Logitech, Genius, Cherry, Razer, Steel Series, Corsair... none of them gave up on making Windows PC peripherals just because MS does.

post #191 of 505

The major problem MS has with win8 ARM version (or whatever they're calling it) is software.  They have visions of creating a brand new, non-backwards compatible windows app market.  I don't see how that can work.

 

The reason Apple was able to build up an entirely new app market was because they sold a futuristic, next generation phone first.  Once people had enough of them in hand, they had a market they could reasonably build an app market around.  By the time they introduced more new hardware like the iPad, the market was well established and backwards compatible.  This was a very important chain of events, Apple could not have successfully launched a new computer (the iPad) with no software and expect people to buy the hardware.  People bought the hardware in part because it's backed up by a very large and diverse app store.

 

MS on the other hand thinks that there's some kind of demand out there for Win8 apps that have no backwards compatibility with Windows.  They think they can launch a brand new version of Windows with no backwards compatibility and no apps and sell entirely new hardware based on it.  This doesn't work, it can't work, its been proven not to work!

 

We know the Win8 tablets based on ARM processors are DOA because of software.  I have a suspicion that the Win8 tablets based on intel will be DOA based on hardware- big and bulky, poor battery life, cost too high, no real clear purpose for existing.  Basically, the same reasons why windows tablets have failed for the better part of a decade.  Nothing about this show that MS put on puts to rest any of those concerns.  They're being quiet on many details that make or break these tablets- cost, battery life, and software.

 

Now I've figured this out, when will MS?  After they wasted a 10 billion or so?

post #192 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamdigger63 View Post


That's only some of the crowd Dufus. All tech journalists got an invite and that includes the Apple Fanbois at The Verge.

I saw a few others standing around, but they were MS shills, there to lead the applause and laugh at the jokes. 

"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #193 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

you people are funny....

 

show of hands for anyone who has actually held this product?

 

 

I have. Waaay back in 2010. When it was new and called the Giant iPod Touch.

Back then, some bloggers and pundits predicted it would fail miserably.

Now everyone's making them.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #194 of 505
History repeats itself. If it first you don't succeed, dump another bilion dollars into it and watch it fail again. Ballmer the monkey boy losing more money for M$.

Anyone remember this POS?

saupload_ballmer.jpg
post #195 of 505

Microsoft will sell some, for all the Windows true believers out there, a few Windows notebook replacers and folks that won't buy an iPad no matter what.  After that it'll be a tough slog for the crumbs in competition with Android, but considering the state of Android on the tablet Windows may be able to take a good chunk of that small amount of market-share Android has.  Microsoft will pour tons of money down a hole when they want something to work (xBox is a good example, although unusually for MS that eventually payed off) - and Microsoft doesn't have much choice here (as well as with the phone market) - the tablet (and phone market) is where a big chunk of the $$$$ is moving to (and growing), if they don't seriously pour money down that hole (and phones) they are doomed to stagnant (and eventually declining) windows revenues and stock price as well.

 

I like the idea with the cover...but that swiveling back that holds it up on the desktop looks made to order to break (hard to see the cover being useful without the pad sitting upright though).

 

Be interesting to see how MS does with these (I second the notion that their hardware partners have to be furious) - I'm guessing sales will be alot like the Kindle Fire, some good sales for the first few months and then sales will fall down to a slow, low level that doesn't meet their desires.

post #196 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

History repeats itself. If it first you don't succeed, dump another bilion dollars into it and watch it fail again. Ballmer the monkey boy losing more money for M$.
Anyone remember this POS?
saupload_ballmer.jpg

Is he wearing the same clothes?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #197 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nguyen View Post

You Windows fans are just plain stupid, sniffing shit and saying it doesn't stink.
Give me a break.
If you really like crap, then eat it away from us.

 

 
Easy there, tiger.
No need to make it personal.
 
Now when you walk into a Microsoft Store, it will resemble an Apple Store even more, with rows and rows of tablet-like laptops. You'll only be able to tell them apart from the emptiness of the Microsoft Stores.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #198 of 505

Interestingly, my local broadsheet has labelled this as an "iPad challenger" rather than "iPad killer".
 

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post #199 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Typing on it can't be any worse than an on-screen keyboard, so at the least it'll be an improvement. How much we have yet to see. But it also won't eat up screen real-estate, which is a nice perk.


I wouldn't expect typing to be any better, but one will have benefit for not losing half of the screen to the keyboard. Since Android tablets are using 16:9 screen, you actually lose more than half of the screen when typing in landscape. Good enough for simple email, but any document with advanced formatting and/or graphical elements would be really nasty to deal with.

post #200 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by greekmango View Post

It isn't a tablet or a laptop. It isn't innovative or traditional. It isn't cute or ugly. It isn't even schizophrenic. It isn't really anything.
What a lot of nonsense.

That's funny.  =)  It's a tablet aimed squarely at the iPad.  Hype and distortion won't carry this thing to success, and it won't succeed for the reasons I listed above.  I just don't understand how anyone thinks MS has a good software strategy here, or what will possibly motivate Windows developers to recreate their apps over again for a version of Windows with no backwards compatibility.  x86 backwards compatible code is the only real reason why windows exists and remains dominate.

 

MS is playing with fire with their strategy, at best it fails and at worst they lose considerable market share.

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