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Microsoft unveils 'Surface' Windows 8 tablet - Page 10

post #361 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

For an ipad, very relevant. Except apple uses a 'camera connection kit' that allows some functionality...

 

and dongles are only useful if they are apple dongles?

 

and talking about planned obsolescence


You do NOT need a camera connection kit at all. You can use a number of services or apps to transfer your photos. Most used scenario is in the field FYI, since I work with a number of photogs... that's fact.

 

No... any dongle is OK, from anyone really. The idea from Apple's perspective is to keep the input connector(s) on the iPad itself to the absolute minimum. Again, why is that wrong? You do know that if there was a USB connector on the iPad, there would be more complaints of what you CAN'T connect, than what you could?

 

Please advice as to what you're pointing to as "planned obsolescence"... then maybe I could respond.

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post #362 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

 

It brings nothing really worthwhile to the table. 

 

Like Windows Phone. 


It brings full PC functionality to the table(t)... and still remains reasonably slim and lite. That is worthwile for a lot of home, and much more corporate users.

post #363 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

But why would you want to hurt MS?  I understand you prefer Apple but why does that mean you have to hate another company. 

Nobody said anything about "hurting" MS.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #364 of 505

You pretty much nailed it.

Do not mind the Helvetica?

I can imagine why. Y took a deep breath, said wait a moment and then the list kept getting longer and longer. Describing universes of vision, taste and engineering takes a few lines. 

post #365 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

 

So, what you are saying, is that you are making  up statistics to support your proposition, without any evidence.  And when  called on it, you go off on a tangent about  Obama.


Recent statistics at IDC point to ~50 million iPads have been sold to date.

 

I most surely will bet you that at least 1 million of those owners only have an iPad. They are the so-called "casual users" such as the elderly, tech averse, Oprah-fans, etc.

 

Just in my circle of colleagues/clients both private and corporate, there are over 60 that I have personally set up over the last year since iPad 2 and iOS5 came to market. In the process, those clients dumped their aging Windows PC's, both laptops and desktops equally. I've been posting updates to this phenomenon every time this subject comes up.

 

BTW: Tech-consulting is not my main job even, it's just a peripheral activity I am asked to assist in.

 

PS. (added)... sorry for the facetious statistic. It sometimes get tiring pointing out the obvious and having to back it up always to the people that can't put 2 and 2 together for themselves.

 

(Added again)== Ask yourself: just who is purchasing iPads... because we know the tech people hate it... the Android crowd hates it... the I want a full OSX or file system crowd hates it... WHO IS PURCHASING iPads as fast as Apple can make them???


Edited by ThePixelDoc - 6/19/12 at 6:01am
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post #366 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter View Post

It looks positively uncomfortable to hold, especially if that kickstand starts flapping about.

 

There was a reason why Apple ditched the angular edges of the iPad1 for the gently curved bevelling of the '2 and '3. My new iPad is so much nicer to hold sans-case than my first gen iPad. 

 

I can see that Microsoft are hoping for enterprise adoption for this thing, but the problem is, the enterprise sees computers as sit-down-in-front-of work machines and laptops are for commuting or working on at home. There won't be many directly enterprise related applications for this Windows tablet that will overcome the drawbacks of buying a laptop-alike that will regularly fall apart at the seams (those keyboard cover things aren't going to stay put that well).

 

It's going to bomb, and it's going to bomb big time.


Well, we have exponencialy raising demand for tablets from our business users. Lots of them use desktop or even thin client in the office, or simply don't need their staff to drag 15" lappy around all the time. This Pro model could be dream-come-true for them - full understanding of AD, group policies, easy access to shares, printers, CRM, company's SharePoint. Full Office and Outlook functionality. All the things you'd have to workaround (and some of them you couldn't at all) on iPads and Androids come naturally to this, while still remaining reasonably portable tablet form factor.

post #367 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


It brings full PC functionality to the table(t)... and still remains reasonably slim and lite. That is worthwile for a lot of home, and much more corporate users.


However what's not useful to a lot of home users... is the question of security when using a full OS, if they only are web surfing, emailing FB-ing.

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post #368 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by serializer View Post

I think the kick stand stands for being targeted for business and for replacing home pcs. If you put the device on a desktop it will not fall. In all other cases, where surface is not plain and stable, it will not be useful.

For Microsoft this means a lot as current pc's can easily be replaced with this hybrid. It will have the desktop functionality and the portability. The iPad feel but can also be something else if needed.
I'm currently using a 19" monitor at my office desk. Why on earth would I switch to a puny 16:9 display? I just do not see how this will replace a laptop/desktop in the enterprise.
post #369 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

 

    Same as when your macbook air decides to stop working. 

I take it to the Apple Store and they help fix it,   Where will i have to ship my surface for service.  What county will i call for support.  how many times a week will i have to install patches.  

post #370 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That is the classic definition of FUD. (To do it properly, you would typically announce your vaporware product within two weeks to a month of your competitor actually launching theirs, so, technically, MS is about 2 years late with this announcement.) Now, we're all supposed to stop buying iPads because MS will be releasing something better (they promise) real soon now. Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft, did they?
Wasn't Courier the vaporware that was supposed to be the iPad (I think techies were calling it iSlate at the time) killer. That worked out well.
post #371 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by CogitoDexter View Post

It looks positively uncomfortable to hold, especially if that kickstand starts flapping about.

 

There was a reason why Apple ditched the angular edges of the iPad1 for the gently curved bevelling of the '2 and '3. My new iPad is so much nicer to hold sans-case than my first gen iPad. 

 

I can see that Microsoft are hoping for enterprise adoption for this thing, but the problem is, the enterprise sees computers as sit-down-in-front-of work machines and laptops are for commuting or working on at home. There won't be many directly enterprise related applications for this Windows tablet that will overcome the drawbacks of buying a laptop-alike that will regularly fall apart at the seams (those keyboard cover things aren't going to stay put that well).

 

It's going to bomb, and it's going to bomb big time.

And that's the difference between Apple and MS design philosophy; one company is focused on creating the best user experience possible while the other is focused on creating what the engineers think will be cool.

 

Another way to put it is that one stands at the intersection of technology and liberal arts while the other stands at the intersection of technology and fugly street.

 

I'll let you guess which company is which...

post #372 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

What's with the hate! This is awesome. It's a tablet and a computer in one device. It's what Apple should have done with a special version of the 11" MacBook Air years ago as soon as iPad became a hit. Things like this and the ASUS PadFone are awesome. 

 

The Win 8 UI looks interesting, I guess. Maybe not the best, then again I haven't used it in person. But the general concept of running REAL apps on a mobile touchscreen is awesome. Also, people want to have a big touchscreen. The Galaxy Note is homerun. I predict the ASUS PadFone will sell well, also. There is another reason. Up until these devices you had to pay extra for tethering. Because you had two devices, a tablet and a computer. Or a phone, tablet, and computer. If you merge all of them, you pay one data plan. Of course I'm sure US carriers will muck this up.  But kudos to Microsoft for innovating, dare I say it. Kinect is awesome. This Surface product looks really awesome, too. Personally I'd rather see an something like the ASUS transformer powered by an Intel mobile chip that can run Windows and MacOS X and Android all one device: a phone that plugs into a tablet which clips onto a keyboard. How sweet would that be!? All your apps everywhere all the time with all your data. The cloud doesn't work so well for large files when you pay per megabyte.

 

I really wonder about battery life, though. Other than that, I think this may possibly be a dark horse that becomes successful. The x86 Surface tab in particular. I imagine businesses will greatly prefer this to having to deal with Apple and iOS.

 

Mate, this forum is over-saturated by Apple fanatics... that's what is with the hate ;)

 

Re battery.  Considering that new Zenbook Prime lasts 6 hours and half, with faster Core i7 processor and 13" full HD IPS screen... and not having more volume than this tablet, because of teardrop form and mechanical keyboard taking away some space... or the HP Folio 13 with nearly 8 hours of juice (7:50) without wedge shape (but still reasonably slim)... I think it is possible to get decent battery of this device. Of course, we'll have to wait and see. I think a lot of things were not said on purpose and will be slowly released in the following weeks and month, to keep the hype.

post #373 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Well, we have exponencialy raising demand for tablets from our business users. Lots of them use desktop or even thin client in the office, or simply don't need their staff to drag 15" lappy around all the time. This Pro model could be dream-come-true for them - full understanding of AD, group policies, easy access to shares, printers, CRM, company's SharePoint. Full Office and Outlook functionality. All the things you'd have to workaround (and some of them you couldn't at all) on iPads and Androids come naturally to this, while still remaining reasonably portable tablet form factor.


That's exactly what I'm seeing as well. That's why I'm not truly "dumping" on MS and the Surface. I just hated the presentation and demo.

 

Yesterday I watched a full presentation from Mozilla, where they mentioned the "80/20" factor: 80% of the users use 20% of the features of any given OS or software program.

 

OK... I'm speculating again to a point... but I'd say that for more than 50% of Windows users, you could say it should be the "90/10" rule.

 

If MS can offer up the Win8RT arm version for a competitive price... with a well stocked and curated app store... again, I think they'll do well.

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post #374 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Bart View Post

Correct! Microsoft have come up with this amazing keyboard cover BEFORE Apple, Samsung etc. Well done Microsoft, Apple does not have a monopoly on innovation.

 

Logitech and Zagg beg to differ. But, whatever version of history you like.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #375 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

What is that....netbook lite?

this is the PC...reinvented and what i suspect a lot of people will like. I see enough ipad users trying to make their ipad into this with keyboards and what not. Since the mouse doesn't work (or will if you hack it) on the ipad i think Jobs did not want the ipad to be the 'new pc' but something completely different. he succeeded. this looks to be a smart move from MS. trying to keep Windows alive and well. now when i can run ubuntu on one of these i will buy it.

post #376 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


However what's not useful to a lot of home users... is the question of security when using a full OS, if they only are web surfing, emailing FB-ing.


Considering how many people play FB games, it will be handy for number of FB-ers.

 

Outside of that, different scenarios, different needs. Personally, I have desktop, laptop and tablet. Since heavy work is being done on desktop anyway, I can replace my tablet and laptop with this amalgamation. Still have my Lightroom and Pinnacle Studio when travelling, while being able to use device for books/comics/movies in landscape and portrait mode.

 

In general, I think there are a lot of scenarios when one needs simple tablet for most of the time, but requires laptop power every now and then. This might be good device for such usage. Of course we'll have to wait and see how well it compromises between two worlds. It does look promising in my eyes, at least.

post #377 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by serializer View Post

I think this kind of post shows that the majority of AppleInsider users are not interested in _any_ new technology. Their fanboism has blinded them and we see comments and pictures about Steve Ballmer. This is a disgrace to the whole AppleInsider and Apple community.

 

I own the iPad3 for example. I want progress. This product will offer more and points to weaknesses in the iOS/iPad structure. Weaknesses that will hopefully push Apple to deliver better products. I am talking about stuff like:

 

- Input. Giving the possibility to connect any USB device that just works on the fly delivers a lot more. 

- Output. The need for purchasing a dongle to output to HDMI is just crazy.

- external memory. Gives the ability to live, long time, with a product. You can extend the memory according to your needs.

- keyboard. This keyboard seems to be the perfect combination of design and cover.

 

Both Apple and Microsoft needs to learn from each other and this device is really a good step in right direction.

 

We all want progress but not like this.

 

1. USB - I don't want to have to carry a USB cable around - wireless connections are the way forward. You'll be asking for a serial port next.

 

2. Dongle - The advantage of a standard port on the iPad is that we get a multitude of peripherals all made to work with the iPad out of the box. If you don't want a dongle just use AirPlay instead.

 

3. External memory - you haven't done your research coz you can already buy external memory for the iPad. Kingston and Seagate both make portable hard drives that sync wirelessly with your iPad to add extra memory.

 

4 Keyboard - how backward thinking is that. It's a tablet not a laptop. You're meant to use your fingers or the onscreen keyboard. There are lots of external keyboards for the iPad if you're that bothered. Personally I think if a keyboard is that important to you I would buy a MBA instead of an iPad.


Edited by Shaun, UK - 6/19/12 at 6:46am
post #378 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Again... please point to WHY it needs one, when wifi and/or Bluetooth connects to everything now.

 

Well except a mouse. Let's not get into why you would want a mouse on a decidely touch device.

USB is convenient, like if nobody ever wanted to plug a USB key on its iPad to share content or extend the storage directly available for a cheap price, with 32 GB USB keys under $20 I am sure many would settle with that rather than to pay the heavier price asked for the extra-space of the high-end models... Also Windows can put to use external devices like USB keys for extra ram.

post #379 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

Logitech and Zagg beg to differ. But, whatever version of history you like.


Logitech and Zagg ain't Apple ;)

 

In addition - I haven't seen Zagg, but Logitech one is basically a box with no real physical connection with iPad, isn't it? It has to be charged separately every now and then, and you cannot flip it behind (something I'm expecting to see from this one)..? Anyhow, not exactly the same.

post #380 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Boy, I have never seen so many Apple shareholders scared in my life!!! Literally scared to death!!! lol.gif

 

Are you suggesting we're all scared Monkey Boy is going to come along and steal our iPads? You're right that is funny lol. 

 

I mean Microsoft have only been trying to build a decent tablet for the last 10 years.

post #381 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX View Post

Boy, I have never seen so many Apple shareholders scared in my life!!! Literally scared to death!!! lol.gif

 

If that fiction helps you sleep at night. It's a defensive move intended to prevent erosion of their installed base.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #382 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebensmuede View Post

 

Tim Cook saw this coming two months ago:

 

"Converging a toaster and a refrigerator"


Now that's called "Damage Control".

post #383 of 505
Looks fine but they should have called it Surface Reloaded or something like that.
This must be like the fourth time Microsoft tries to "define" the tablet market.
post #384 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Now that's called "Damage Control".

 

And you are drawing a long bow.

"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #385 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

My Windows Phone Lumia 710 can boot up faster than your newest iPhone. A Windows tablet takes about 10-20 sec to boot.

I doubt that, but then again, the iPhone does have several thousands of apps that are also on the phone so maybe that's slowing it down a bit haha.

post #386 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdRed View Post

Looks fine but they should have called it Surface Reloaded or something like that.
This must be like the fourth time Microsoft tries to "define" the tablet market.

 

Dang. I thought UMPC was going to be "it".

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #387 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

USB is convenient, like if nobody ever wanted to plug a USB key on its iPad to share content or extend the storage directly available for a cheap price, with 32 GB USB keys under $20 I am sure many would settle with that rather than to pay the heavier price asked for the extra-space of the high-end models... Also Windows can put to use external devices like USB keys for extra ram.


No. I nor my clients have ever wanted to plug in a USB stick. Well they did, until I showed them how to use FileBrowser, DropBox, Goodreader, PhotoManagerPro.... or just plain email.

 

After that... no ... the question has never come up.

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post #388 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


Considering how many people play FB games, it will be handy for number of FB-ers.

 

Outside of that, different scenarios, different needs. Personally, I have desktop, laptop and tablet. Since heavy work is being done on desktop anyway, I can replace my tablet and laptop with this amalgamation. Still have my Lightroom and Pinnacle Studio when travelling, while being able to use device for books/comics/movies in landscape and portrait mode.

 

In general, I think there are a lot of scenarios when one needs simple tablet for most of the time, but requires laptop power every now and then. This might be good device for such usage. Of course we'll have to wait and see how well it compromises between two worlds. It does look promising in my eyes, at least.


I think the I5 Pro version could replace the desktop also. All you would need is some sort of docking station that would power the tablet, and instantly allow you to use a regular monitor, keyboard, and mouse by utilizing the mini display port and the USB port.

post #389 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


It brings full PC functionality to the table(t)... and still remains reasonably slim and lite. That is worthwile for a lot of home, and much more corporate users.

 

You talk about this as if it's a shipping product. I think we have quite a ways to go before we see the light of day with Surface.

 

Are there some good ideas?  Sure.

 

Will MS actually pull this off in a flawless fashion? I sincerely doubt it.

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post #390 of 505

And I wonder what this would have been / looked like / worked like and so on, had Apple not come out with the iPad???

 

Skip

post #391 of 505
"
ThePixelDoc
Quote: Yup... that's why the AAPL share price rose today by almost $12.00. We be a shaken... :)
"
---------------------------------
The announcement was made after the market has closed. But let's see what is going on today! The entire market is up on good news from Greece, Microsoft is up 4% but Apple... nothing! One of the few stocks that is not up today! Oops!!!! Bad news for you, greedy Apple shareholders. But great news for tech fans and for true Apple fans (consumers). Because Apple needs good competition no greedy shareholders who wants nothing but to fill their pockets!
Edited by NelsonX - 6/19/12 at 7:51am
post #392 of 505

When Apple does a big announcement like this, the hardware is almost always immediately available the day of the announcement.  With Microsoft, it's always "coming".  That is a big let down to prospective consumers.  Consumers get geared up with the announcement and get in a "frenzy", only to be told they can't buy it.

 

I personally don't think this thing is going to do very well.  Anything Microsoft sells hardware-wise has generally been a failure.  The kickstand is gonna break.  Just give it time.  Mechanical things eventually wear out.  And the pen...don't get me started on that.  I'd like to think Microsoft did something great here, but it's nothing new.

post #393 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdinkins View Post

When Apple does a big announcement like this, the hardware is almost always immediately available the day of the announcement.  With Microsoft, it's always "coming".  That is a big let down to prospective consumers.  Consumers get geared up with the announcement and get in a "frenzy", only to be told they can't buy it.

 

I personally don't think this thing is going to do very well.  Anything Microsoft sells hardware-wise has generally been a failure.  The kickstand is gonna break.  Just give it time.  Mechanical things eventually wear out.  And the pen...don't get me started on that.  I'd like to think Microsoft did something great here, but it's nothing new.

 

I can almost guarantee you that Apple ran through all these things; built-in kickstand, keypad cover... any number of other innovations... but in the end, simplicity won the day. As you say, things tend to wear out and/or break.

 

Building things by committee, with Ballmer being the decider, tends to include the living room, office and bedroom into the kitchen design. All things to all people... jack of all trades, master of none. Sometimes they sell well but nobody ever makes any money. (I'm talking about hardware)


Edited by island hermit - 6/19/12 at 8:29am
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post #394 of 505

As much as I dislike MS products.  This actually looks ok.  I'd love to have an iPad that ran OS X.. something I could actually use to store stuff on... If and when apple comes out with an ipad with REAL storage.. not just for pictures and music.  An actual file system I can access.. I'll buy one.  Looks like MS did a good job with this one.

post #395 of 505

Every hardware designer must work at Apple or Samsung because this thing is not attractive it looks really bad. Folks, Apple nailed it with the iPad there is no competition deal with it. Two years ago when Apple came out with the iPad I was the first one to say among my friends " Why would I need that it's just a giant iPhone" Well two years later I have a iPad 64gig that replaced my 2006 MacBook Pro and can do anything that I did on the old MBP and more and iPad travels so well.

 

Every tablet that has come behind the iPad has no character. I had a Samsung Galaxy Tab for a weekend that a family member bought. The design of it was good, thin,light good size. The problem was Android Honeycomb which was awful.  The screen of the Galaxy was not attractive at all. If MS were to put their OS in that form factor of a Galaxy Tab the might have something but it still wouldn't compare to the iPad.

 

No one and I mean No one does tablets better than Apple. It's a fact of life.

post #396 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacVertigo View Post

I'd love to have an iPad that ran OS X…

No, you wouldn't. :broken_wink_emoticon.png:
Quote:
…If and when apple comes out with an iPad with REAL storage.. not just for pictures and music.

Lawl, that's a good one.
Quote:
An actual file system I can access

Go buy an Android tablet. Not only will this never happen, it's becoming ever more clear that it's not necessary.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #397 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

MB.jpg

 

 

Dance for us, Monkey-Boy!  Dance!

post #398 of 505

They should make the keyboard a separate product.  Only buy if you need it.

People will buy an iPad before spending more for a MS tablet.

The high end may work for office people as my clients want smaller/lighter laptops. $399 / $699 and they may be able to get some traction with the masses.

It is do or die time for Microsoft so they better get it right.  It looks like they are passing over the masses for business oriented people and that will hurt them.

 

Apple says "Look what we have, come get one."

Microsoft says "Look what we are promising you, uh, watch for it, coming soon, er, sometime, we promise."
 

post #399 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

 

Logitech and Zagg beg to differ. But, whatever version of history you like.

 

Do those  keyboards have a multitouch trackpad?

post #400 of 505
Bingo. This thing has to have a base price CHEAPER than $499, otherwise it's DOA, regardless of the specs of either model.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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