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Microsoft unveils 'Surface' Windows 8 tablet - Page 13

post #481 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post


How about editing photographs, editing movies (iMovie is pretty slick on iPad), drawing/painiting and otherwise creating art, writing/editing music, creating presentations, programming, website development,  ...

This is where it gets murkey to me.  Many people can meet their photo and video editing needs on an iPad.  Of course, they have to jump through 100s of hoops to get the content on there in the first place.  I'm not speaking of just getting RAW images off of a compact flash card - that something most people don't have to worry with.  But my video camera shoots in ACVHD, and it's not even close to a pro level cam.  I'm not saying the Surface Pro will handle it well, but it will at least handle it, and I won't have to preload the files elsewhere first.  Still, video editing on an iPad is pretty darn good, but don't pretend it's not limited.  Again, this is based on what you are trying to do.  I tend to get into a lot more detail with my video edits than most consumers, but I'm no pro.

 

I've seen some amazing drawings/painting created on the iPad.  However, I can get 10X the detail in 1/2 the time with a stylus.  In order to get an accurate placement of a really fine line (on any of the apps I've tried) I have to 'spread' the image wider...and wider...and wider...until it is so large I can't even tell where I'm drawing anymore.  A Wacom stylus isn't just an improvement, it the difference between a raindrop and an ocean.  Yes you can draw on an iPad.  A few people are very, very good (and patient) at it.  They have spent countless hours perfecting work that could have been acheived in a fraction of the time with a stylus.  Pen/paper - Paint/Canvas, both clearly superior to a finger based touch screen.  Wacom Stylus is the closest thing to that.

 

These are the ones that hit closest to home to me, although I am a musician.  I love jamming with the iRig, love creating with Garage Band.  I haven't tried recording more than one/two part tracks on the iPad.  iPad is not meant to replace a desktop recording solution, and in my opinion a laptop isn't either (not that I think you indicated that it was, btw) 

 

Creating a presentation: really?  It can absolutely be done.  And it will absolutely take more time to get a polished custom presentation completed.  Just because you can do it does not mean the device is really good for doing it on.

 

The iPad is great as a consumption device is it's present incarnation, but ranks poor for serious content creations.  The Surface looks like it may improve upon the iPad in that area.

post #482 of 505

Can use it on a lap:

 

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review

 

Surface-HandsOn-12-580-100.JPG

Nokia Lumia 920, iPhone, Surface RT, Intel i3 Desktop with Windows 7 & Hackintosh, Power Cube G4

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Nokia Lumia 920, iPhone, Surface RT, Intel i3 Desktop with Windows 7 & Hackintosh, Power Cube G4

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post #483 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by storneo View Post

 

Also, the camera angle is great if you place the tablet on a desk. What about if it's not on a desk? You'd have to tilt it in a weird direction to line it up with your face while holding it.

 

Bingo! You just realized what all the "OMG KEEBORDE IS KOOL" crowd haven't:

It's not a tablet PC. It's a TABLE PC.

If you attempt to use it as a tablet... awk-waaaard.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #484 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk View Post

I'd rather have two things that can do what each does best than one thing that can so everything less than half as good. 

A camper is both a car and a home. There is a (niche) market for it, but not as much as for separate homes and separate cars, as a camper is a compromise that is neither good as a car, nor good as a home.

 

But sometimes the compromise wins. Microsoft Word is neither a very good editor, nor a very good typesetter. But the combination is good enough to have beaten combinations of separate typesetter (e.g. TeX) and editor that produce better results.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatortpk View Post

 I still don't see iOS and OS X merging for quite a while. They are just good by themselves.

They don't need to merge, they are already merged and they are branches of a single tree (that started with NeXTSTEP).

post #485 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by serializer View Post

 

If you want to use your screen it is easy. Turn the device upside down, use the flip keyboard on top, connect the HDMI. Can't be simplier than that.

And get limited by HDMI's 1920x1080 limitation. Might not seem a big deal, but it probably will be if you want to do serious desktop work that cannot be done on a tablet.

post #486 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

Now who's copying who?Bill, Steve and Ballmer

If you say:

2002: Bill Gates introduces a new form factor for a mouse-keyboard UI

2007: Steve Jobs introduces multi-touch as a new UI paradigm

2010: Steve Jobs introduces a new form factor for the multi-touch UI

2012: Steve Ballmer introduces a mixture of mouse-keyboard-touch-with-stylus

 

Depending on your idea of what actually is the underlying innovation, the story changes. Besides, what about pre-Tablet PC computers like the Newton? The Tablet PC was another (failed) marriage: Newton form factor (albeit larger) and Windows UI.

 

The big innovation that made iPhone and iPad take off was multi-touch.

post #487 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Can use it on a lap:

 

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/tablets/microsoft-surface-tablet-1085839/review

 

Surface-HandsOn-12-580-100.JPG

 

Correction: can POSE WITH IT on a lap.

 

This is a "review" of a non-existent product, using a pre-production "poseur" model, and gushing lovingly about it as if it were the perfectly functioning hot model of the year, when… onstage… it wouldn't even run Internet Explorer… 

 

Be real. Did it crash on you at all while using it? Did you actually run any applications? USE it like you would use it if you owned it? Not just oooh and ahhh at the  finely fitting seams…?

 

I smell a paid PR article, yet again… is there ANYONE out there less disingenuous willing to write something "non partisan" about this device? 

 

Because at this point, having watched the announcement video three times, I realized what a complete sham it was. They talked about it as if it "does" all this, when in truth it "will do" all that (if everything goes to plan)...

 

98% of the "demo" wasn't a demo, but talking about what it's designed to do and "will do"… we don't actually see the Surface DOING ANYTHING...

 

Compare to the keynote introducing the iPad. Where Steve lovingly kicks back with it and USES it, while the iPad screen is being beamed real-time and throughout to the large display above him, showing its every move… app after app leaping to the screen, doing incredible things we had only dreamed were possible up until then… dreams made real.

 

This 'presentation' sure ain't that… and it causes me to have serious doubts about the product itself.

 

Similar hype preceded the Kin and HP Tablet, as I recall… and an equally disingenuous array of gushing, paid PR pandering as well… yeah.

post #488 of 505

I assume we've seen this?  It's fantastic.  Surface Fail. 

 

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #489 of 505

Indeed.  We all enjoyed (or  some folks cringed) back here.  Fun to watch again though!  

post #490 of 505

The wise Macalope at MacWorld said something a long time ago that seems as fresh and appropriate today as it did back then...

 

Quote:
It’s amazing how future Microsoft products beat current Apple products time and time again, isn’t it?
post #491 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

Correction: can POSE WITH IT on a lap.

This is a "review" of a non-existent product, using a pre-production "poseur" model, and gushing lovingly about it as if it were the perfectly functioning hot model of the year, when… onstage… it wouldn't even run Internet Explorer… 

Be real. Did it crash on you at all while using it? Did you actually run any applications? USE it like you would use it if you owned it? Not just oooh and ahhh at the  finely fitting seams…?

I smell a paid PR article, yet again… is there ANYONE out there less disingenuous willing to write something "non partisan" about this device? 

Because at this point, having watched the announcement video three times, I realized what a complete sham it was. They talked about it as if it "does" all this, when in truth it "will do" all that (if everything goes to plan)...

98% of the "demo" wasn't a demo, but talking about what it's designed to do and "will do"… we don't actually see the Surface DOING ANYTHING...

Compare to the keynote introducing the iPad. Where Steve lovingly kicks back with it and USES it, while the iPad screen is being beamed real-time and throughout to the large display above him, showing its every move… app after app leaping to the screen, doing incredible things we had only dreamed were possible up until then… dreams made real.

This 'presentation' sure ain't that… and it causes me to have serious doubts about the product itself.

Similar hype preceded the Kin and HP Tablet, as I recall… and an equally disingenuous array of gushing, paid PR pandering as well… yeah.
What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.

It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.
post #492 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.

 

How about something that other people can actually use. Some real demo pads. Didn't happen... they might as well have been behind glass.

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #493 of 505

That looks pretty awesome!!!

post #494 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

How about something that other people can actually use. Some real demo pads. Didn't happen... they might as well have been behind glass.
In what way couldn't these be used? They let people touch them and use them after the presentation. True peoples time was limited with them but given there's no need to demo the os as it's publicly available, I don't really get the issue.
post #495 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


In what way couldn't these be used? They let people touch them and use them after the presentation. True peoples time was limited with them but given there's no need to demo the os as it's publicly available, I don't really get the issue.

 

Read the reports... they never got to use them. Who gives a shit if the OS works if they can't get it to work the way that Microsoft is promising on the tablet... and I'm talking about the Pro.

 

(I'm going for 500 guys...)

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #496 of 505
Read the reviews. There time was limited to about 2 minutes, but they got to hold them and use them. Now that may not be long enough to do any performance tests but its still using the device. You still have enough time to check out the viewing angles of the screen, feel how good the touchscreen is and what the whole thing feels like in your hand. There isn't much else left before your just focusing on the OS that's not any different to the one you can download.
post #497 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

Read the reviews. There time was limited to about 2 minutes, but they got to hold them and use them. Now that may not be long enough to do any performance tests but its still using the device. You still have enough time to check out the viewing angles of the screen, feel how good the touchscreen is and what the whole thing feels like in your hand. There isn't much else left before your just focusing on the OS that's not any different to the one you can download.

 

Well dang nab it... DO WHAT YOU'RE asking others to do: READ THE REVIEWS!

Hands-Off: Microsoft Surface Tablet Review -- Also reported on at DaringFireball.

 

NO ONE was able to actually type anything real on the keyboard, and see it show up in ANY program on the Surface.... um... or below it for that matter!

Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #498 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post

What do you think they should have demo'd that they didn't? They show the keyboard working, the kickstand, attaching the cover, the surface running windows 8, and the fact the touch screen works. What else do you want them to show.
It would be pointless doing a demo on the actual os, as it's been shown before, you can even download it and install on your own machine. Wanna see it running on a tablet, plenty of those around to.

I really don't think that's a good plan. Seeing each in isolation doesn't actually prove anything, because that discounts the value of the software and hardware working together.

The official promo video tells people the device is just about the looks, because they showed the appearance of the device for a minute, and barely gave one second to the device actually functioning.
post #499 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotApple View Post

Now who's copying who?LL

You're conveniently leaving out that the 2002 model was a resistive single-touch screen and Windows XP Tablets never really worked well.

Microsoft has even had a Windows 3.x tablet edition. But that doesn't mean anything if the user interface isn't designed well, and a resistive single-touch screen. Come to think of it, all of Microsoft's previous tablet products probably required a special pen. If you don't realize by now that requiring a stylus was a recipe for trouble in the consumer market, then I think you're in denial.

Getting something to work well and feel right to the customer base has to count for something.
post #500 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Getting something to work well has to count for something.

Nope. "First!" All that matters. lol.gif
post #501 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

And get limited by HDMI's 1920x1080 limitation. Might not seem a big deal, but it probably will be if you want to do serious desktop work that cannot be done on a tablet.

I doubt the Surface 'Pro' is intended for serious desktop work that requires anything beyond that. If someone can use it that way without being hindered, more power to them, but using a device that far outside its intended use suggests that they picked the wrong device for their needs. Besides, 1080p is still a nice amount of work space for a computer. In fact, the smaller iMac is 1080p.

HDMI is capable of higher resolutions though, it almost has the same data rate as DisplayPort, I don't understand why almost nothing seems to use it yet.
Edited by JeffDM - 6/30/12 at 5:17am
post #502 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


You're conveniently leaving out that the 2002 model was a resistive single-touch screen and Windows XP Tablets never really worked well.
Microsoft has even had a Windows 3.x tablet edition. But that doesn't mean anything if the user interface isn't designed well, and a resistive single-touch screen. Come to think of it, all of Microsoft's previous tablet products probably required a special pen. If you don't realize by now that requiring a stylus was a recipe for trouble in the consumer market, then I think you're in denial.
Getting something to work well and feel right to the customer base has to count for something.

To be fair you didn't have to use a stylus with resistive screens, provided that the screen was large enough.

 

Even devices as small as the 5 inch HTC Athena in early 2007 could be navigated using your finger. Although resistive screens have fallen out of fashion they do have some advantages, especially where pixel perfect accuracy is required. In comparison, capacitive screens can feel like playing a piano with boxing gloves. 

post #503 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gctwnl View Post

If you say:

2002: Bill Gates introduces a new form factor for a mouse-keyboard UI

2007: Steve Jobs introduces multi-touch as a new UI paradigm

2010: Steve Jobs introduces a new form factor for the multi-touch UI

2012: Steve Ballmer introduces a mixture of mouse-keyboard-touch-with-stylus

 

Depending on your idea of what actually is the underlying innovation, the story changes. Besides, what about pre-Tablet PC computers like the Newton? The Tablet PC was another (failed) marriage: Newton form factor (albeit larger) and Windows UI.

 

The big innovation that made iPhone and iPad take off was multi-touch.


I thought people already agreed that Microsoft actually innovated while the rest of the world copied apple. Now Microsoft is labeled as a copy monster too?

post #504 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

To be fair you didn't have to use a stylus with resistive screens, provided that the screen was large enough.

 

Even devices as small as the 5 inch HTC Athena in early 2007 could be navigated using your finger. Although resistive screens have fallen out of fashion they do have some advantages, especially where pixel perfect accuracy is required. In comparison, capacitive screens can feel like playing a piano with boxing gloves. 

On a side note, this is the very thing that the Galaxy note has prevailed in solving. A mix of both accuracy and convenience

post #505 of 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbrucewayne View Post

I thought people already agreed that Microsoft actually innovated while the rest of the world copied apple.

In software.
Quote:
Now Microsoft is labeled as a copy monster too?

In hardware.
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