Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Sounds like the recycling industry needs some innovation of its own.
Like discovering a glue-softening formula to separate glass from metal, as opposed to complaining that it can't figure it out. Does Apple have to do everything around here?
This is a bit naive. There's virtually no profit in the recycling portion of it, and many people are not sure where to take them. In California it's illegal to put an old television in the dumpster, yet people do this anyway. We need a functional idiot proofed solution there, yet no one is willing to pay for it most of the time. Ideally it would be built into the retail price of the electronic device with clear instructions available online and within the documentation.
Originally Posted by tokenuser
The cynic in me says that this is a guy who funds most of his projects from the revenue generated selling the tools to the DIYers who want to fix their iHardware themselves.
His revenue stream has dried up - and is likely to get worse.
Non upgradable RAM? CTO with 16GB up front. You cant go beyond 16GB, and - while expensive - its not a deal breaker.
Non replaceable screen? Cracked screens are a risk - but only time will tell if this is a genuine problem on the redesigned model(s). For most screen repairs it wasnt the LCD that was damaged, but the front glass. No front glass means ... more LCD damage or a fragile component removed from the scenario?
Nonremovable battery? This one concerns me a little. I am on my third MB battery since I bought my Early 08 MB ... but then again, those battery packs were known to have issues.
Recycling? OK, as part of a total lifecycle that is a concern but not now. That "glass" is an LCD. It is not LCD per se. You dont throw bare LCD panels out with your beer bottles for recycling. Metal recycling - even for electronics is a high temp smelting process where the metals liquify at different temps and get filtered (low tech analogy) off. If he means reuse, thats a different story, but recycling? Thats a furphy.
I am anxiously awaiting my MBP:NG (MBPR?) ...
The ram isn't such a bad issue here. If 16GB does not become more common in this specific ram spec, pricing could remain where it is. Note the price to go to 8GB on a much older macbook vs 16 on a newer one. While 16 will undoubtedly be cheaper on future macbook generations, it may or may not reach that point on the current generation. Overall the upgrade cost here isn't a huge deal relative to the machine. The battery and drive should be seen as bigger issues given their nature as expendable parts.
Originally Posted by Maltz
But those changes in cars made them last longer and run more efficiently and reliably. But soldering RAM to the motherboard, making up their own SATA interface, and gluing the battery to the case does none of those things. All it does it allow them to make it marginally smaller and drives repair costs through the roof. Personally, I'd rather have a machine that's slightly thicker and maybe even slightly heavier that I can upgrade and don't have to pay Apple prices for RAM.
I'm much more neutral on the ram thing. These have never been appropriate for really heavy computing. They get too hot. The other components annoy me to the point of where I may never buy one unless battery and drive technology sees some drastic improvements.
Originally Posted by AppleZilla
Few people these days, or ever really, ever even upgraded their machines, or fix it themselves.
Sour grapes, iFixit.
This is just such a silly paradigm. Apple has all of you convinced that changing a laptop battery is a "repair".
Originally Posted by AppleZilla
Huge = Less than 5%
Like the 'enormous' number of people using Google+. Who are mostly just people who comment on tech blogs.
I avoid creating my own statistics. I suggest you do the same. You're just making the statement with confidence figuring that the confidence will dissuade people from fact checking it. Given the lack of credible published readily available information, I'm not going to bother.
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yeah, poor repair company will eventually lose their revenue stream.
I'll take reliability over repairability any day. Better to build a system reliable enough that repairs aren't needed often than to build a crappy system that DIYers can fix like those that you obviously prefer.
Nonsense. Soldered RAM will be considerably more reliable than socketed RAM. First, there are probably half as many solder connections. Then you have the inherent unreliability of a DIMM socket which can work lose over time or during shipping. And, of course, many problems with DIY RAM upgrades were the use of crappy RAM which led to intermittent problems. A soldered RAM system, while not upgradeable and less flexible for the consumer offers significant advantage.
Gluing batteries to the case? Less components to come loose during shipping. Less chance of assembly error. Less chance of DIYers messing it up and ruining their system (there was a case not too long ago where a battery screw was misplaced and damaged a battery, causing a fire).
And Apple prices for RAM? You're living in the past. If you buy the older MBP with 8 GB and want to upgrade to 16, most places are charging around $160 for two 8 GB SO-DIMMs. And even then, you have to worry about whether the RAM is as good as Apple RAM. Apple charges $200 - which isn't out of line at all considering that you get a full factory warranty and don't have to muck about inside your computer.
Of course, if you don't like it, you're free to buy the older MBP or someone else's laptop.
The ram isn't a big deal to me, but don't overstate factory warranties. Some third party ram can come with a lifetime warranty. In terms of its cost, it's a very normal markup. You're basically paying retail + brand markup and configuration charge. $40 more on a laptop in this price range is not a big deal in any way. You can defend the battery and drive all you like, but Apple has done very little to inform people of such changes. They've transformed things that were never truly "repairs" but merely replacements on expendable parts (changing an Air filter on the car if you will :D) to expensive repairs which would weigh heavily against the value of an aging device. Essentially they may eventually force earlier retirement of their machines in this way which is bad for their consumers.
Originally Posted by rjlcool
I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUZZ OF GLUEING of PARTS IS ALL ABOUT...
I've seen most of NATGEO's Ultimate Factories series and all of the exotic cars featured uses GLUE to hold the aluminum body to its chassis. We are talking about 200mph Ferraris and Porsches here how much more for a retina MACs that just sits on your lap @ 0MPH most of the time.
Disassembling computer parts is done on a very low budget, and it's not always done correctly. Beyond that, stop comparing Ferraris to mass market products. Apple and Ferrari serve completely different markets with some overlap in demographic due to Apple's scale.
Originally Posted by jowie74
That's so not true. My 1G MacBook originally came with 1 GB RAM and a 100 GB HD. I "maxed out" both at 2 GB and 320 GB HD at a later date. When I bought it, I couldn't afford 2 GB (especially at Apple prices), and I don't think 320 GB HDs even existed. As a result, my lovely old MB has lasted me over 6 years and is still going strong.
If I was to buy a rMBP, I could only afford the minimum spec and there's no way I'd want that. 8 GB sounds great now, but the OS and Apps will become bigger and better in the future, and I will need 16 GB. So I'd have to wait and save for the 16 GB upgrade. But also I'd want more than the 256 GB storage, and that's the sticking point. I can't upgrade that to 512 GB unless I choose the higher-end 2.6 GHz model, which is $400 more. Not only that, but according to the benchmark tests, there's not an awful lot more power in it than the 2.3 GHz. And the 2.3 GHz is faster than the 2.6 GHz non-retina! So the fact you can't get more storage on the lower spec rMBP strikes me as a clever ploy from Apple to get people spending more money. If they are going to make a machine that has no user-upgradeable parts, I think it's a shame they don't make the BTO options more flexible.
And before anyone suggests that iPhones are made like this... I get my phone on a contract, so I know that in 18-24 months time I can get a new one with better memory, better everything... And they're a hell of a lot cheaper than a new laptop. I'm afraid that I'm one of the minority(?) who can't afford to spend 3 grand on a new machine every 2 years!
My solution would be don't buy it. If enough people follow that trend, they won't create machines like this. It's possible that I may find myself looking for another brand, but it would bother me less if the reliability is truly exceptional within these machines. I dislike the battery issue quite a lot. Their previous warranty terms do have cycle allotments for what is covered as opposed to just considered normal wear and tear. As I've mentioned they are considered expendable parts. If the machine is built perfectly, these parts will naturally degrade and fail prior to the rest of the machine. With the battery, they've always been expensive to replace. This was true even when they were swappable. It's just that requiring more complex service leading to machine downtime and increased service charges for a replacement that may become an issue after two to three years or faster if you use your machine in colder regions is an issue. They've been experimenting for years with what people will tolerate, and it's becoming truly annoying.