Review: Apple's next-gen MacBook Pro with 15" Retina display - Page 2

If you had a point to make disparaging dock workers is a poor way to do it. You sound elitist with your derogatory remarks while my only elitist comment is about elitists which really only makes me a self-hating elitist.

As for the word ****, it's a word. It's a taboo word but you have to choose to make it taboo. There is nothing in the arrangement of its letters or its sound waves when uttered that are actually cursed. There is nothing at all about but a collective choice to react to it because you are were taught a certain way. I specifically used it to relay a point, an emotion, and one you reacted to at a visceral level. A word that you claim means that won't be taken seriously despite it being a way that we reproduce and show affection. A word that you felt you needed to insult an entire class of workers over. A word hat you wouldn't bat an eye over if it's equivalent was used in another language which you don't speak.

Perhaps one day we can evolve our culture to not insult or pigeonhole groups of people over fearing that a cursed term was scribed or vocalized in our presence.


edit:

If you use that app you need to back up file DisplayProductID-a00f located in /System/Library/Displays/Overrides/DisplayVendorID-610/Display/ in case you want to switch back. Apparently SwitchResX is removing it thus making the System Preferences option not function.

With a pull coming from "behind" the display the angle of the previous design means there's a chance to "hook" the connector on it's recessed port and pull the machine back off a table. Like the gluing in of components my bet is they're responding to repair reports. The newer design will peel out with a much surer release without regard to the angle of the pull since the force get's redirected at the plug-wire connection. The whole point of the magnetic connector was a safe release, the hooking problem would have defeated that.

I find it interesting that I've read a few reviews mentioning that websites look like "junk" right now because the images have to be pixel-doubled, but then shrug it off saying that things will improve as things are updated to be compatible with the retina display, just as things happened with the iPhone and iPad.

 

Well, that may be the case with apps, but when it comes to websites and email, that's not going to happen. I'm not even sure that there is a way to serve pixel-doubled images to Safari on a Retina Display MacBook Pro. Maybe if you serve it images that you're telling the page to display at half the size in the HTML specifications. I'd love to get one to test that out. At any rate, even if you are able to do that, most of the web will never be updated to work that way, so if you spend most of your time browsing the internet and checking email, this higher-resolution retina display will actually make everything look a little uglier for you. Forever. Something to think about.

Here's a gallery of the different scaling modes:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5996/how-the-retina-display-macbook-pro-handles-scaling

 

I hate glossy - but I wouldn't be surprised if the colors on this screen are outstanding.  The colors on a new iPad are better than even some of the supposedly "pro" monitors.  The new iPad is really astounding.  If the new Macbook Pro screen is that good too, all I can say is wow.  Photographers are going to love it.

 

I also hate the word Pro.  It has been overused to the point of meaninglessness.  I mean, really...  pro photography apps on an iPhone?  Please.  I own a $1400 DSLR body, and even that is not a true pro model.  [tangent: if you love photography, you really need to try shooting with a Sony a77 for a few hours.  It's like nothing else on the market at any price.  Sony is doing some amazing stuff lately, in terms of photography.]

I know. That's why I said the DP floating point performance of Kepler is crippled compared to Fermi. See the page I linked for details. 

 

"Because it’s based around double precision math the GTX 680 does rather poorly here, but the surprising bit is that it did so to a larger degree than we’d expect. The GTX 680’s FP64 performance is 1/24^th its FP32 performance, compared to 1/8^th on GTX 580 and 1/12^th on GTX 560 Ti."

Wow dan don't be too harsh there on apple... expensive and other developers need to step up for retina, that's a lot or cons there mate.

One would think that soldered memory on a pro model that could well go up to 32gbs of memory in a future upgrade might be considered a con by some....in more ways than one

No hdd despite the lack of optical and a meagre 256gbs for the very expensive base model means most pros, ESP. Creatives that this is geared towards (well them and impressionable Chinese trophy wives) Will find they ll have to tug along an external hard drive.

Proprietory flash storage lock in on a pro machine that again won't be able to be updated by ever cheaping mainstream ssds could well be a negative aspect.

Lack of Ethernet sure is a very negative aspect for a lot of users too who will be perpetually carrying dongles along.

And of course it's the thermals.mthe ever slimming mac notebooks, and this one is a prime example get warm for rudimentary computing tasks, and hot too.

Ps what the **** is wrong with huddler and basic smilies , , is anyone getting them?
Edited by myapplelove - 6/19/12 at 5:39pm

I don't have a framerate checker... none built into Skyrim... and I don't run it on Windows, but ported with Wineskin I can run it ultra with 2880x1800, and during some really big action with special effects, so when some things are still caching a few seconds after a loading screen, it can get jerky, but most of the time its very smooth.  I don't play it like this though, I've been playing it at 2048x1280, and it runs great.  I'm sure it would run great completely native in Windows.

what about it?  what more do you need ot know?  there are side vents that pull in air, some some channels in the plastic with the speakers to help it get back through the board and through the heatsink fins.  The Screen hing is different than older models and sits at an angle, so there is a bigger gap of space for air exhaust out too. 

You have to buy that to keep using it anyways... I wrote an app you can use for free.  its not as complex as SwitchResX, but it has the basic screen changing without messing up your computer... it won't save the size though so if you reboot you have to set it back to 2880x1800 again.  i just made a quick little startup item to do that for me after I log in... I haven't shared that though cuz I'm not sure anyone wants it.

Resolution changing app

They're not hypothetical at all.   You only want to invest so much when you buy the machine.   You think you're buying enough RAM and enough storage space. Then a new version of Illustrator or Photoshop comes along that requires more RAM.   You're screwed.    You have to buy a new machine.   

 

I have a late 2008 MacBook Pro.   Late in 2011, the battery finally wouldn't take much of  charge anymore so I replaced it.  I just ordered a new one, opened the back cover and popped it in.   Then, in spite of cleaning up my files, I ran out of hard disk space.   So I bought a new 750GB hard disk drive with a small SSD cache embedded in the drive and a case so that I could transfer from the old drive to the new drive.     Perfectly easy and now I've got the old drive in that case which I can use as an extra HDD for other purposes.    And while I bought the machine with enough memory, if I want to upgrade the memory, I can.     That's how a pro machine should work.     In my opinion, just to reduce the thickness of the case by what...1/4 inch at most?....we're taking major steps backwards.     A pro should not have to give up their machine to Apple (or anyone) for several days to replace or upgrade any of these things that have been user replaceable for years.    It interferes with productivity and there are security issues regarding the data on the machine.   

 

Personally, I would gladly have a slightly thicker machine and be able to replace/upgrade the battery, storage and memory then to have a thinner machine where I can't.   If you're someone who replaces the machine every year or two, it won't matter to you.  But I keep my machines longer and one of the things I've always liked about my Macs as opposed to the PCs that I've used is that they actually remained functional (with upgrades) for many years.   I used my G4 tower for seven years before giving it away and it still worked perfectly - it just couldn't handle video editing or very large Photoshop files.   I mean really....how much space does Apple save by not having the memory in a socket?   How hard would it have been to design the machine so that the SSD was under a panel and removable?      

 

And he's not dissing it for having too good of a screen.  He's dissing Apple for being so paranoid about secrecy that they no longer work with major application companies like Adobe under non-disclosure so that they can get their software ready for day of release with the hardware.   I was a software publisher years ago and we got new Apple hardware long before release all the time.  We had to keep it locked in a room and sign our lives away, but at least we knew what was coming and could prepare for it.    

 

In spite of the excitement over the so-called Retina display, Apple will lose the developer community with machines like this.     I think that's a bad strategy.     

 

No they won't. These sensationalistic, utterly disconnected proclamations are always hilarious. The new MBP will make Apple lose the developer community? What planet do you live on?

The market has shown that this internet outrage over non-upgradebaility is pretty much horse-shit, the real world doesn't care. The same thing happened with the iPod, iPhone, iPad, Macbook Air, and now with the MBP. Proclamations how of Apple was shooting itself in the foot by having the nerve to not have user serviceable batteries, that it would be a massive disadvantage compared to the competition, etc etc. You'd think after like 10 new products that were insanely successful despite these 'fatal flaws' people like you would learn a thing or two and stop being so fucking self-righteous with these doomsday proclamations and pretending to know what people want- but I guess not, every time its the same thing, over and over.

 

Upgrading is becoming less and less important as time goes on. The demands of software is not increasing as fast as processing/storage speeds, especially when it comes to desktops/laptops. For fucks sake, the basic configuration STARTS with 8GB of RAM. Apple won't lose a single developer over this. They'll gain many. 

 

I'm not sure what websites "look great" on the retina iPad, but I can't imagine there being many of them out there. It requires a lot more work and a lot of extra bandwidth.

 

I looked in to this a little further, and it appears Apple has optimized their site for the Retina display, but someone else agrees with me that it seems unlikely other web developers will follow suit: http://www.1techportal.com/2012/03/why-websites-may-never-be-updated-to-support-retina-and-hidpi-displays/

 

Here's someone else that's created a tutorial for creating retina images for your website: http://www.kylejlarson.com/blog/2012/creating-retina-images-for-your-website/

 

To be honest I can't see this catching on, especially for current sites. Perhaps this will become a common practice for building websites in the future, but I can't see anyone going back and modifying their current site, other than Apple.

A good point, and a good explanation - MagSafe does in fact have that potential.  

 

But, I still prefer its form factor, tucking against the machine.  

 

If the issue is that the pressure point of release, with the cord exiting the plughead backwards, allows non-release and pulling on the machine, why not design the MagSafe 2 with a similarly slim profile, but the cord exiting the plug-head at right angle to the side of the machine instead of parallel to it?  

 

Then the release would be away to the side, not back, pulling the head out of the depression.  

The machine wouldn't be tugged, the new plughead wouldn't stick out the Apple Design equivalant of a country mile...voilà!  Best of both worlds...

Spend $9.99 and get a magsafe adapter. Done.

No argument (and if you hadn't edited while I was replying I might have commented then :) ) ... but how many of those are mobile GPUs?

Even the 680 mentioned is the desktop version, not a mobile one. The 680M is closer in performance to a 670.
All the same though ... that is a lot of computing power in a portable package.

I had the opportunity to talk to a nVidia engineer when there were rumors of an nVidia chip returning to the MBP. He couldn't tell me if it was happening (he didn't know, or plays poker real good), but we also discussed using an external PCI bus connected via the Thunderport with high end GPUs. He seen it done for video production, but hadn't occurred to him to use it for numeric processing. We suspect that the copper would be a bottleneck until we start seeing the fibre connected Thunderports coming out. Be interesting to try ... Kepler or Fermi based ... and would still be a solution far more portable than a desktop.

Yeah, I really don't understand why they went backward in design in making the new MagSafe plug perpendicular with the laptop chassis.  The previous, flush design was clever and less obtrusive.

We must have been looking at two different screens. No matter how I angle the glossy screens (also MBA) I can always see reflections.

I understand that this assumption/stereotype "irks" you, but you don't have to be an a**hole about it and belittle other people's professions. If you don't like the "graphics 'professionals'" focus don't blame the reviews, blame Steve Jobs and Apple, they have always focused more on beauty, form and function, rather than raw power. Btw, your last sentence sounds like something a PC user would say, perhaps you should try one.

I take it that you're not a developer? Xcode, especially when running Instruments, already needs 8GB for anything but the simplest apps.

If I was buying a retina MacBook Pro today I'd definitely go for the 16GB upgrade and then hope for the best. Pro apps eat up RAM.

I like mine.

 

Fast, quiet, best display ever on a laptop.

 

I am glad I bought it

 

Am I a pro? I guess, I have a job, use it for work.
 

No, I blame the reviewers pretty squarely. They like shiny things. They are easily distracted.

 

Your last sentence sounds like something a PC user would say too.

Why? Because you dont understand that a Mac *is* a PC. A Mac is a damn capable Unix workstation, that happens to have a pretty UI, and runs Windows really well (when needed). That is power ... and it is under appreciated ... especially by "graphics professionals" (even more so the ones that "work" all day at Starbucks).

As usual, AI performs a half-assed review and leaves out loads of potentially useful information.

 

1)  Can the thing run Windows properly?  Those of us that use these as a combination work/personal machine, need to use Windows.  Obviously Windows has built-in native support for any resolution, so I don't doubt that it supports the retina display.  But does apple have a suitable driver available for the 650 video card?

 

2)  More importantly, how do extremely demanding visual applications tax the video card at native "retina" resolution?  I guess this question will not be answerable until some of the photo- and video-editing software is updated to run natively on Retina.  However, AI could have dual-booted Windows, and ran Adobe CS5 to get an idea of how this thing runs at retina resolutions.  Why didn't they?

 

I have a custom-built computer running three 1920x1200 monitors with a MONSTER of a video card (it's a PC, of course).  Even that sometimes gets laggy when using all those pixels in an intense gaming session or during instense video editing, etc.

 

Nobody seems to be bringing up the fact (and I suspect it is because we are dealing with Apple users here who are more UI- and software-oriented than they are hardware-oriented) that when you quadruple the number of pixels on the screen, it nearly quadruples the amount of work placed on the video card.  This is the same video card that is used in gaming or in demanding graphic-intensive editing, etc.  Something has to give, somewhere.  And I would suspect that once Photoshop is updated to run the native retina desplay, the old-version Macbook Pro with its 1440x900 screen will run much faster and smoother than the retina display model -- it has the same video card pushing 1/4 of the pixels!

 

3)  Why does AI not even mention the fact that this thing is virtually impossible to upgrade yourself?  I don't know any "pros" who pay the exhorbitant Apple rates to upgrade their machines.  Hell, I upgraded my old 13" MBP to 8GB of ram for under $100.  Apple would have charged a fortune.  Can I afford this thing?  Sure.  Can I afford to pay Apple to upgrade it in a couple of years?  Yeah, but it makes me really hesitant to buy one. 

 

I am already furious that I cannot upgrade the ram on my 11" Macbook Air (I bought it when it first came out without researching it enough). The ONLY reason that APple did not create some sort of proprietary removable connection on the new ram is to force users to rely on Apple to upgrade (or perhaps to save a few pennies by just soldering the memory directly to the motherboard).

 

4)  Why can't AI at least admit that in a "Pro" model, it MAY be a huge drawback for some professionals not to have an integrated optical drive.  Personally, I say good riddance.  But I can guarantee there are a lot of professionals out there who travel and who need optical drives. Corporate America has not exactly abandoned the CD/DVD.  I realize you can buy an external, but that is a huge PITA.

 

Overall, I REALLY like this thing.  Do not get me wrong.  I am just frustrated by the many reviews that essentially call the new screen "pretty," complain a bit about the lack of third-party retina support, and then conclude that the new MBP is great.  It leaves so many important questions unanswered.

What YOU don't seem to understand is that as long as people can afford a Mac they are entitled to do whatever they want to do with it, that includes (but not limited to) writing a book, sitting all day at a Starbucks acting as cool as they want to because they have a Mac or doing whatever you (and your PC personality) thinks is real work.

You really need to go and see one of the new screens, compare it with the plain glossy MBP screen while you're at it.

 

It's not the same at all.

<sigh>

 

What YOU dont understand is that that is what I am saying. Not everyone is a "graphics professional".
A lot of "professionals" are not as concerned about the kerning of a font in photoshop as they are about having a fast, usable, portable machine.

 

THE MAC IS A FREAKING PC. It's a *personal computer*. It is a tool. It is something that allows a professional to do their job, whatever job that might be. The media focus on a slim segment of the audience is not doing anyone a favour. Especially when it perpetuates the narrow minded attitude to computer usage that you are displaying.

 

 

I think you drank too much of the koolaid. 

THIS IS WHAT MICROSOFT USERS ACTUALLY THINK WE DO.

No it's not the same, but the old MBP were ridiculously reflective. I have looked at the MBA (which most reviews states are equal to the retina screen), and the are way to reflective still, and it's a pain to look at. Also a couple of reviews states that you just have to get used to the reflections. I don't pay 2k for a laptop that I have to "get used to". And yes I absolutely don't have to. My problem is that I prefer Mac OS over Windows/Linux and that the only alternative is strange in between resolution on a MBP that are more expensive and heavier than the Retina when configured the same way. If we could just buy the new form factor with a normal matte display at least.
 

Edited by rune66 - 6/20/12 at 1:25pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834990528&nm_mc=OTC-FroogleNEW&cm_mmc=OTC-FroogleNEW-_-Mac+-+Accessories-_-iLuv-_-34990528

READ MY GODDAMN SIGNATURE!

 

you are acting very foolish.

 

Do you not understand what PC stands for?

 

If you mean "Windows user" please clarify.

 

Than, clarify what version of windows, because windows XP and Windows 7 are two completely different beasts.

 

PS: i use Windows 7 ultimate,  OSX (one with application dock), and a lightweight version of linux.

Guess what........ I use windows for most productivity work, Linux for when i just want to browse web, and OSX for server/file storage/itunes.

 

As another note, i grew up using a Mac and OSX.  I switched to PC for two reasons:

1. cheaper with better screen, and CPU than MB, and MBP was to expensive. :(

2. i wanted to be able to get rid of the dvd drive computer came with and install an extra battery pack :)

3. i can swap the battery and dvd drive whenever i want to :P

4. i got a lenovo thinkpad, so i knew it wouldn't break like dell/hp. Sadly i found out this was true...

Ummm...which sticks out just like the MagSafe2 plughead, so, not a solution, not "done".

Yes, but:

1. The cable still angles away parallel to the case.

2. Gives enough distance that the plug will "break away" instead of pulling the laptop.

I know, I had to write in a manner that tokenuser could understand, unfortunately that meant using cliches.

Dude, what is your damage? a kitty dies every time someone uses the term in a non-dictionary manner? chillax please. I understand your point of view, and you are right, but if you look at the context of the conversation between tokenuser and me you'll see that I was using the terms PC and Mac the same way the "Get a Mac" ad campaign from Apple did, the same way most people think a PC is. If you need the email address of Apple so you can correct them also I'll be more than happy to provide it for you.

The demo models I've used in the store seem laggy and jumpy when scrolling or moving in/out of full-screen view in iPhoto and Aperture.

Is the the case for real-life users, or is it restricted to the floor models?

Thanks.

The use of those cliches is what is especially pissing me off. The fact that you are using them just reinforces them.

It is those cliches that have the media focused on graphics professionals ... when there is a whole other audience of professionals and non-professionals who are using the machines. The "I'm a Mac .. I'm a PC" ads while entertaining did nothing to break the stereotypes. The fact you feel you need to drop back to them in an effort to insult me <really? you can do better than that ...> just shows how effective they were - and how out of touch you are.

 

BTW - I was using a Mac SE (at a global mining and manufacturing company) over 20 yeas ago. My first college courses in programming involved using a Mac that booted off disc (when was the last time we could boot off a 800K floppy? ... when was the last time we even saw a floppy on a Mac??) and swapping discs in and out to load MacPascal. I've been doing this for a long time - professionally ... I've seen the cliches come and go. Want to try throwing "Windoze" or dropping M$ into your posts too to add some street cred?

Edited by tokenuser - 6/21/12 at 7:13am

Although the Apple Store folk spend a lot of time making sure the machines are set up for an optimal experience, people play with them. Thats what they are there for. But it does mean that the next time, someone can have a sub optimal experience because the last person set the resolution funny, or thought they be clever and load something up in the background that suck cycles.

Eitherway, expect updates when Mountain Lion ships. Apple are optimising their programs for Retina displays (and large monitors in general), other developers are following suit.  

If you read my post more carefully, you'd notice that, although I acknowledge the pull-away difference, I don't consider it an inconvenience, as I do the protuberance, for the way I use it.

Really? 

really.

honestly?

 

When you say "PC" unless you clarify that it is a machine with Windows on it, or say from the Mac ads guess what it means.

Did you ever make that distinction until now? I do not believe so, of course, i may be wrong.

 

Anyhow, Apple can use that add fine, i dislike it because it makes stereotypes. Also, i think it is fine because my mom is a creative copywriter and i grew up learning about advertising.

 

But when discussing with other people (who cannot read your mind) you need to clarify you are using the point first.

 

Anyhow, back to talking more about the review: thanks to the people who gave out names of apps (or wrote their own) that let you use the full screen resolution! 

I'd like to know how noisy it gets under load. I love my Macbook Air but the fans get quite noisy when doing anything CPU intensive.

 

Every Macbook Pro I've had in the past has been basically silent except for the HDD noise.

Woohoo! Just transferring my info from my Macbook Air to my new shiny rMBP! Couldn't resist the new screen :)