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Galaxy Tab injunction looms as court denies Samsung rehearing petition

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Apple's bid to temporarily ban U.S. sales of Samsung's Galaxy Tab 10.1 moved one step closer to being granted on Tuesday as the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit denied a request from the South Korean electronics giant to rehear the case.

The CAFC denial opens the door for Apple to refile its original preliminary injunction motion after California Judge Lucy Koh initially shelved the request two weeks ago pending receipt of an official federal mandate. Apple is closing in on the tablet ban after traversing a bumpy road of rejections and appeals as the California district court judge is set to make a decision after hearings later this week, reports FOSS Patents.

Tuesday's rejection comes one month after the CAFC partially granted Apple's appeal of a December 2011 ruling in which Judge Koh handed down a wholesale rejection of requests to ban Samsung products that allegedly mimic the design iPhone and iPad. Apple quickly attempted to refile for a Galaxy Tab sales ban but the effort was quashed.

CAFC Denial
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit denies Samsung request for rehearing.


While May decision overturned part of the initial ruling against the injunction requests and allowed Apple to reassert claims against the Galaxy Tab, Samsung lawyers convinced Judge Koh that it would be premature to issue an injunction without first receiving formal mandate from the CAFC. In response, the iPhone maker asked the CAFC "to Issue the Mandate Forthwith or Shorten the Time to File a Petition for Panel Rehearing or Rehearing En Banc" but the court deferred the motion, saying:

"In light of Appellees' [i.e., Samsung's] representation that they will file a petition for rehearing on May 29, 2012, the court will defer ruling for now on Appellant's [i.e., Apple's] motion to issue the mandate forthwith."


This ultimately led to the decision handed down on Tuesday which should be followed up shortly by the official mandate Judge Koh has been waiting for in order to move forward with the injunction. Florian Mueller believes that a tight schedule will be set for the upcoming proceedings given Samsung's previous intent to seek a rehearing.

Apple and Samsung are set to meet in the California court again on Thursday for a hearing on the two parties' summary judgment requests in an attempt to whittle down the scope of the trial.
post #2 of 23

Doesn't really matter anyway. 

 

Galaxy Tab this or that, Android tablets need to be rethought completely. 

post #3 of 23

If you ask me, I think that Microsoft Surface tablet will be the real tablet threat to Apple. I'm a huge fan of Apple and have all three generations of iPads... but if the price if right people will have a really hard time resisting the lure of a full OS on their tablets that also runs on their desktops.

post #4 of 23

I would wait until you really see the product.  It is a step better than vaporware right now and they have received nothing but criticism.

rfrmac
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rfrmac
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post #5 of 23

Microsoft hasn't released a tablet that's successful in the mainstream yet which I'd argue Apple has roundly done. I'm not saying they can't but that's a pattern - of misses and efforts that never saw the light of day. The Surface looks slick but there are as many reasons to be predict success as failure. I think Ballmer is smart to minimize the expectations.

post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfrmac View Post

I would wait until you really see the product.  It is a step better than vaporware right now and they have received nothing but criticism.

Working products for the press to use is hardly vaporware. Learn the definition. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

Microsoft hasn't released a tablet that's successful in the mainstream yet which I'd argue Apple has roundly done. I'm not saying they can't but that's a pattern - of misses and efforts that never saw the light of day. The Surface looks slick but there are as many reasons to be predict success as failure. I think Ballmer is smart to minimize the expectations.

Why is predicting success as failure ok in this case but not others? Because Mac enthusiasts just hate Microsoft so glass is automatically half empty? Yes MS had a string of failures 5 years ago, from Vista to Zune to Tablet PCs but their more recent efforts have been much better. Windows 7, 360 S, Kinect etc. They are too big and have too much money to be dismissed so easily. Surface looks interesting, but I'd rather pass judgement on it when I can actually mess with one and no it's not going to outsell an iPad.

 

Frankly everyone's yelling they are competing with the partners. I don't see it that way. I think they are taking the approach Google does with the Nexus program. I think they are frustrated by boring bland crappy hardware PC offerings and want to motivate them to move in a certain (very Apple) direction. 

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #7 of 23

Microsoft already released tablets that ran their desktop OS.  They sucked and failed miserably in the marketplace.  What makes anybody in their right mind think it'll work this time around after having failed over and over and over again in the past?

 

By release two different tablets running two different operating systems on two different hardware platforms Microsoft has only added to their woes.  Essentially the low end device is an iPad wannabe with a virgin OS that showed up at the party two years too late, while the high end device is a lightweight notebook running desktop Windows that sports a touch screen and no keyboard.  

 

Consumers haven't been crying out for either device, and it's hard to see what the use case is.  If you need a lightweight laptop running a desktop OS, you can buy an iPad or one of its clone equivalents.  You don't want and don't need a tablet.  If you need a tablet, you get an iPad - the ARM based Microsoft device offers no advantages - you can't run desktop Windows software on it, and you can't run any of the iPad's vast library of apps.

 

MS should probably have concentrated on the high-end device and not even produced the ARM-based, incompatible solution.  The fact that they didn't probably indicates the high end model will be hella expensive and sport awful battery life - the exact compromise Apple's been unwilling to make.

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Working products for the press to use is hardly vaporware. Learn the definition. 


vaporware: a computer-related product that has been widely advertised but has not and may never become available

vaporware: a product, especially software, that is promoted or marketed while it is still in development and that may never be produced.


Learn the definition indeed.


Technically speaking, even Apple products are vaporware when announced weeks or months in advance. OS X Mountain Lion is technically vaporware at the moment as is iOS 6 although I have installed both on some machines. The difference is that Apple has a near perfect record of actually producing announced products.

Likewise, although Android-based tablets are not technically vaporware there are few reports and scant evidence of Android-based tablets in actual real-world use.
Edited by MacBook Pro - 6/19/12 at 5:31pm
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Working products for the press to use is hardly vaporware. Learn the definition. 

Which is why he said a step better than vaporware, in that a few examples of a partially working product actually exist. Other than that, it fits it perfectly.

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...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothgarr View Post

If you ask me, I think that Microsoft Surface tablet will be the real tablet threat to Apple. I'm a huge fan of Apple and have all three generations of iPads... but if the price if right people will have a really hard time resisting the lure of a full OS on their tablets that also runs on their desktops.

Yeah right ... /roll eyes
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post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawson100 View Post

Microsoft hasn't released a tablet that's successful in the mainstream yet which I'd argue Apple has roundly done. I'm not saying they can't but that's a pattern - of misses and efforts that never saw the light of day. The Surface looks slick but there are as many reasons to be predict success as failure. I think Ballmer is smart to minimize the expectations.
Your last sentence is a joke right ...? Ballmer 'smart'????
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post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunspot42 View Post

Microsoft already released tablets that ran their desktop OS.  They sucked and failed miserably in the marketplace.  What makes anybody in their right mind think it'll work this time around after having failed over and over and over again in the past?

By release two different tablets running two different operating systems on two different hardware platforms Microsoft has only added to their woes.  Essentially the low end device is an iPad wannabe with a virgin OS that showed up at the party two years too late, while the high end device is a lightweight notebook running desktop Windows that sports a touch screen and no keyboard.  

Consumers haven't been crying out for either device, and it's hard to see what the use case is.  If you need a lightweight laptop running a desktop OS, you can buy an iPad or one of its clone equivalents.  You don't want and don't need a tablet.  If you need a tablet, you get an iPad - the ARM based Microsoft device offers no advantages - you can't run desktop Windows software on it, and you can't run any of the iPad's vast library of apps.

MS should probably have concentrated on the high-end device and not even produced the ARM-based, incompatible solution.  The fact that they didn't probably indicates the high end model will be hella expensive and sport awful battery life - the exact compromise Apple's been unwilling to make.

Right on the money. MS are heading to a really bad place for so many reasons. Meanwhile it's indicative of the worries the MS illuminati have that this and many other Apple blogs are full of MS shills spouting crap while pretending to be Apple fans ... too funny.
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post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Why is predicting success as failure ok in this case but not others? Because Mac enthusiasts just hate Microsoft so glass is automatically half empty? 

 

I wasn't making predictions. Nor am I saying that their record is predict the future. Everyone is allowed to read the past how they want (as long as they don't ignore facts).

 

Separate point though - they're releasing this to a lot of anticipation. I'm sure it will sell to more than just the diehard enthusiast. Will it reach mainstream success? How well it sells - there's too much of a rush to predict that in this forum. Success or failure is rarely so clear based on a single product, a single year, etc. XBOX anyone? That's a sleeper that became a runaway hit. Again, not making predictions here one way or another. There's a lot to dismiss about this offering, much to be cynical about, but, yeah, also a lot to be really excited about.

post #14 of 23
There seems to be a lot of people, mostly on other sites, that think these tablets will range from being Kindle to low iPad 3 prices.

For the ARM-based Surface it comes in 32GB and 64GB capacities. That means it needs to be at $599 and $699 prices to be equal to Apple's pricing. Surely no one excepts them to be comparable to Apple's profit margins for the simple reason they don't have the experience, expertise (Tim Cook), or the economy of scale to make it feasible. They are pulling an HP and RiM with this attempt and if it doesn't sell they will have a lot of extra devices on hand.

The Intel model we know uses a Core-i5. According to Intel's site those are $225 to $250 for the ULV (Ultra-Low Voltage) CPUs that they have to be using for this device. There is a reason ARM is king on mobile devices. They aren't even using Atom which would reduce the cost by as much as $200 per processor. Of course that is in lots of 1000 and they can still work with Intel for lower pricing.

The way Apple probably gets better pricing on CPUs for the Mac Pro that Intel can showcase it's possible MS is getting an extra discount from Intel to showcase Core-i5 in a tablet. It certainly works in Intel's favour if MS can make the costlier Surface a viable WinTel platform for those vendors.

I also suspect the reason for the 3 month delay is mainly due to the delay in the 22nm ULV Core-i5 chip for whatever quantity MS wanted. A cynic might say it's beacsue MS wants to see how the ARM version sells before actually committing to the Intel version but the 22nm Core-i5 has only just appeared on their site so I think it has to do with availability for whatever price they negotiated.

Finally, the Intel Surface only comes in 64GB and 128GB varieties. If you only add $100 to each of those capacities and use the reasonable iPad pricing model with only an extra $100 for the CPU upgrade (ignoring all the other costs) you are coming out with $899 and $999. That's beyond what the average WinPC sells for and it's kissing the MBA price.


PS: That's even before you get into the WinTel apps that will work on that Surface or the lack of apps for the ARM-based WinRT.

PPS: Despite all that convoluted design options, attempting to be everything to everyone, and extremely confusing and poor marketing decisions I quite like the actual HW design and HW features I saw yesterday. I also thought this was the best MS event I've seen in many, many years... then again my parents thought I put on a great magic show when I was 8yo but they weren't expecting much either.

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post #15 of 23

will they drive over to the microsoft store for tech support?

 

just an idle thought.

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


The Intel model we know uses a Core-i5. According to Intel's site those are $225 to $250 for the ULV (Ultra-Low Voltage) CPUs that they have to be using for this device. There is a reason ARM is king on mobile devices. They aren't even using Atom which would reduce the cost by as much as $200 per processor. Of course that is in lots of 1000 and they can still work with Intel for lower pricing.
The way Apple probably gets better pricing on CPUs for the Mac Pro that Intel can showcase it's possible MS is getting an extra discount from Intel to showcase Core-i5 in a tablet. It certainly works in Intel's favour if MS can make the costlier Surface a viable WinTel platform for those vendors.
.

I'd like to ask in what way does the mac pro showcase anything for intel? It's not like they have any other options to place in that machine. On intel's site isn't that suggested retail pricing rather than large quantity pricing? With items sold online like desktop cpus those intel site prices tend to be similar to what you'd pay from newegg or amazon.  If they're using ULVs, those are comparable to what goes in the Air. I will reserve judgement on this until I know what they're trying to market against assuming their strategy is to leverage against existing products (which is likely).

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

Learn the definition indeed.
Technically speaking, even Apple products are vaporware when announced weeks or months in advance. OS X Mountain Lion is technically vaporware at the moment
Except for the fact that thousands of people are using it (and have been since at least January).
post #18 of 23
Even if Sammy gets by the injunction, the legal fee's alone have probably eaten up any profit they'll make in selling the devices here.
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Your last sentence is a joke right ...? Ballmer 'smart'????
Sweaty Baller ain't stupid. Problem is he is a marketing (sales weasel) and not the best guy to have final say on the user experience. That in a nut shell is Microsofts current problem.
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Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothgarr View Post

If you ask me, I think that Microsoft Surface tablet will be the real tablet threat to Apple. I'm a huge fan of Apple and have all three generations of iPads... but if the price if right people will have a really hard time resisting the lure of a full OS on their tablets that also runs on their desktops.

 

or not. the truth is that that the average consumer doesn't buy things based on the OS and whether it is 'full' or not. They buy it by price and can it do what they want/need without too much mental taxing. History and reliability often come into play if the price is a bit high. Apple has the history, they have the ability, they have the mind share. Microsoft would have to price this at the same levels as the Kindle Fire to get most folks to bat an eye at it. And even then it could be like the Fire where folks used it and returned it within the week. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

will they drive over to the microsoft store for tech support?

 

just an idle thought.

 

Sure, in the what 20 cities that have one. Most of which are on the coasts or Texas from what I recall. 

 

There's one over by my office and one of these days I'm going to walk in to get help putting Exchange on my iPad just to see how they will react. Never mind that I don't have an Exchange Server. I am a blonde after all. 

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #22 of 23

This is like beating a dead horse.

post #23 of 23

Is Samsung really even selling the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in the US anymore? If not, how is Apple going to prove this time around that "they face a substantial threat of irreparable damage or injury" as required to be granted a PI?

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