http://ark.intel.com/products/65710/Intel-Core-i7-3612QE-Processor-%286M-Cache-up-to-3_10-GHz%29
They have quite a few skus. While I like ram capacity, I wouldn't expect 32 GB unless you do it yourself. They're using notebook boards and so far they've stuck to 2x sodimm configurations. I haven't located any 16GB sodimms yet. There are a couple 32GB rdimms available if you search around. Ivy Bridge should support the 16GB sticks assuming there aren't hardware incompatibilities on Apple's end, but none are available yet. It may be some time before pricing looks fully practical.
Even smaller wouldn't really add anything beyond gimmicky marketing. Their thermals are already pretty bad. I'd rather see them work on this rather than stressing every machine so hard.
If more VRAM is not standard, at least offer it as a CTO.
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
Originally Posted by hmm
Vram was only a recent example. The thing I hate is when companies skimp in certain areas that are less effective in terms of marketing. It's the same with idevices. I'd only care quite a lot about specs if they affect the capabilities of the device within its native OS. The mini is cheap for a mac, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be more capable for a stationary machine that still requires roughly $1k of hardware on the conservative end to be functional as a desktop (display, mouse, keyboard not included).
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
I agree with you and I'm hoping they eventually get it. When the mini was released last year; even seeing the AMD Radeon 6630M was a surprise but after a while to soak it all in, a friend and I agreed that 256 MB was a bit minimal.
I think you understand my issues with these things quite well. They like to make cuts in areas that most people are unlikely to notice right away. Usually when I bring these things up, the replies contain fabricated statistics on how many people might actually make use of such a feature. Another thing that irritates me would be the thermal issues. These components are not all manufactured perfectly. If you've ever the ifixit teardowns, the thermal paste application is often pretty terrible. There are areas that could be improved dramatically to help thermal profiles. I hate it when fans kick up and the thing is still pushing 190F. If they're manufactured perfectly, this may not be an issue. If not, combined with eventual dust buildup, it can create problems. More people would clean out their machines to help one part of this if they were more accessible. Macrumors has a couple mini threads where people broke cables just trying to install an SSD. I'm extremely careful and I use proper tools, so it's not as likely that I would be one of them, but this still disturbs me in a stationary/desktop machine.
As I often say to people, "Made in China with pride." I remember thinking that I was going to be one of the unlucky ones to not only break something installing an SSD into my mini though that the clips used for the memory modules would also cause a problem. I consider myself lucky on both. I was careful though christ was I nervous.
Have things always been this way though or just recently? Maybe more visits are required to the Foxconn factory for quality control?
Heh maybe someone should tell Apple about Arctic Silver 5.
I get that Apple is responsible for design though who is responsible for putting all the components together?
Frankly I really didn't want to take out the HDD and put in the SSD though A. I really wanted a fast machine (of which a 5,400rpm hard drive is not part of in my view) and B. I wasn't going to pay Apple $600 for their SSD on top of $200 I would have had to pay for getting the discrete model mini.
I had also read stories of people trying to do simple tasks such as replace the memory (of which Apple even talks about on their website that customers can do) and the clips popping off. So you can understand why I was nervous.
I am not faulting Apple really. I love my 2011 mini and think it is a good machine, though I think nothing is perfect and if something can be improved upon than that's that.
I was actually considering sending it to OWC to have them do it for me though I eventually worked up enough confidence to do it myself and figured "Well, if I do this and it breaks than it's my own damn fault." This is not often seen with people. People try the same thing and then they break it and believe Apple should give them a brand new machine because "I'm the damn customer!"
I believe in the near future that probably in 2013 or 2014 the mini will be using onboard Flash storage like with the Airs and Retina MacBook Pros.
I agree somewhat here. A lot of computer designs are idiot proofed in that user serviceable parts did not contain tiny cables that break easily. I still dislike the idea of being locked out of changing a hard drive in a desktop machine by such factors. Apple has a significant markup on such a repair, and given that we're talking about expendable parts here, it should not be an issue. Typically it's one of the repairs that is actually worth it even on a very old machine if the rest is in good working order. It's like the battery on the rMBP. You've mentioned more experience with batteries than myself. My concern is gluing in expendable parts that are naturally expected to lose functionality before the rest of the machine.
I think the reliability should still be higher in much of the line given the cost to repair it if anything does go. Apple has things integrated in a way where small things are just extremely expensive to replace. I don't agree that they always choose the best parts. The last really really well built display they had was the one Sony built for them. The rest have seen major problems. The uniformity on recent ones is actually pretty good. It's ahead of much of the competition, but you still see long term issues creep up. I suspect heat is an issue there. Most designs using comparable panels allow for some ventilation. Apple thinks vents are ugly.
The discrete gpu was almost a token gesture. Yes they implemented it, but they didn't implement it well. I don't consider it balanced. You have a machine that is capable of a fair range of tasks from a cpu standpoint (although the quad would be better) yet the gpu isn't appropriately matched. Going too low on ram annoys me as you won't notice it much if you're within what it will tolerate. In the case of both ram and vram, going beyond a certain point drops it off a cliff when things can no longer be held there. It's an area where not everyone gets it as you don't see nice linear gains on benchmarks simply due to increased ram. It just keeps it from tanking past a certain point.
I like AMD for the low end stuff. They at least balance it out better.
Tolerance for variations encountered in manufacturing are built into any design. You can design a part in a CAD program to 1/100th of a millimeter or whatever. Good luck getting mechanical parts manufactured to such a tolerance (speaking of consumer grade products here). The thermal paste thing is a bit sloppy though. If you've seen some of the photos, it sometimes covers areas that it should not touch. Speaking of that, I need to repaste one of my old machines. I do use the right tools though, and I don't bend cables when removing them.
Yeah....
When you reach a certain price level with a machine and we're no longer talking about things that are sold on razor thin margins, proper cabling should be a given.
Apple's opinion has always been that they don't do low end. The mini's starting price has climbed over time. What I'd like to see from them is a little less focus on as small as possible and maybe a bit more toward efficient cooling so that you don't experience heat and noisy fans so easily. Balancing these things has always been an issue. Apple likes things that are pretty. They want the design to be different and make a statement. I care more about how things work especially under load. Apple has seen hiccups here. There was something with the power management. I think it was last year. The Apple discussion boards had people who mentioned that things like transcoding were eating their battery and causing eventual shutdowns even when the machine was plugged in. Given the way Apple pushes its laptops, I'm not surprised some people are doing this on their laptops. It's also common for a laptop to be used as a backup machine even if you own a mac pro. Most of those guys own macbook pros too.
Tim Cook and Jony Ive. Those are the folks that know the answers to your questions.
As for what I would like them to do that might make me buy a Mac Mini. I would like something that is as powerful as a baseline Mac Pro with the ability for me to add more storage via thunderbolt which I could use in a RAID set so I could possibly run that Mini as a server that can handle the office backups, or media files for common projects or whatever I think up.
Rather than the internals from the current Mac Pro I'm thinking more in line with the internals from the new MBPr, at least in term of multi core and speed, including the ability to power a Retina Cinema Display of at least 36 inches (which I would want Apple to release at the same time) up to 50 inches (enough power to run 2-3 of them would be even better). Minimum 8GB of Ram, up to 32GB. HDMI output as well as the thunderbolt. And the Display would have HDMI input so if we want to use it as a monitor to test Airplay via the Apple TV we can hook that to the Display.
I happen to like the case form factor of the current Mac Mini so they can keep that but I would want to either have them make or license for someone to make those thunderbolt drives to match the look and be stackable under the main unit (creating a sort of 'lego' tower). Same with the Super Drive which should be at least USB 3.0 if not Thunderbolt. The internal drive on the Mac Mini should be SSD of at least 512GB if not even perhaps two of them of the same size able to run as two drives or a single depending on how I want to set it up. Being able to do that via their Setup Assistant would be fantastic. Wifi 802.11ac would be killer although probably won't happen this time. Or it might be that the chip can handle it but the software controller is just set for n for now and will be updated later (I would be okay with that since the routers aren't out there just yet)
Make it large enough to offer an open drive slot to allow the option of an internal optical drive for those of us that use it.
The Mini is a consumer focused machine, not a pro one, and at this point there's probably not that many consumers that need an optical drive which is why they pulled it. If you need a drive, buy the external one.
That said, as I said in my wish list, I wouldn't mind if that drive when thunderbolt if that would improve transfer and burn times. I didn't mention it before but I also wish, for those that insist them need it, if they would license the form factor etc to someone to make a TB Blu-ray burning and reading drive. Sure we'd have to probably get 3rd party software at least for the burning part if not the playing but folks that want such use are doing that anyway. There is a part of me that would hope that said mythical Retina Display might actually be able to handle 3d (as might a future high end Retina iMac) and perhaps Apple would include playback support for Blu-ray in the same playing only form as the first DVD/CD drives if one got the external drive (which perhaps they themselves would make). If you needed to burn Blu-rays you'd instead get the 3rd party drive and software and have at it.
I know that folks are doing to say 'it's a big bag of hurt' so Apple won't ever touch any part of blu-ray and that's likely true. but perhaps Tim might revisit that issue. At the least they should try to get their iTunes extras more in line with what a disk can give and work on getting a 1080p file that is more inline with the various audio, subtitles etc of a Blu-ray. I know a lot of folks that wouldn't mind if the iTunes 1080p files were as much as 3 times their current size if it had all the bang of what's on a disk. Add the features and get it working on the iPad and Apple TV and they might never buy an optical disk again. Tim should also try to get folks off this whole Ultraviolet thing. Aside from the fact that it blows, that free copy of the movie from iTunes (and get them in HD if you are buying the blu-ray) was a bonus that has the potential to really market the store.
The last model did have a 45W processor (i7-2635QM) though because it is available to them, couldn't you see a 35W processor by default to play it safe or no?
Originally when I bought my 2011 Mini (and I believe I mentioned this before) I had wondered if I should get the discrete model in order to play Diablo III. I am now glad I didn't pick it up as it would have been a waste. Diablo III has seen so many problems that it's not even funny.
From what I hear, the Intel HD 4000 is obviously faster than the Intel HD 3000 though not as fast as the 6630M or even AMD's integrated GPU for Trinity (is it).
The problems with Diablo III have not been because of Apple, Intel, or AMD though because of Blizzard.
Edit: I forgot to add that I would love to see the 35W quad core with the discrete graphics and also that yes I do commend Intel for the HD 4000 upgrade.
What problems? The 35W quad core would be great there. That would be a decent step up for that platform, quad cpu + discrete gpu.
External power bricks aren't bad for a small machine like the mini. They do help with thermals, and right now the mini can get quite hot causing the fans to spin up. I dislike moving laptop problems into the realm of stationary computers, but I don't know if they'll reverse this. The mini has a lot of potential. It's expensive enough configured that I'd like to see them get the details just right. I'm not a big fan of Drobo after the service problems of others. I don't think Apple places much value in this kind of serviceability.
It's a start. I agree with you on AMD. I like them at the lower end. With Apple you have a high minimum sale to buy a system with a reasonably powerful gpu.
The current discrete gpu mini uses a 35W cpu. Intel has a 35W quad cpu this time, so you could see both. It doesn't even look that bad. Also regarding cooling, I'd prefer they design stationary machines that don't run near throttling range or require extreme RPM fans under normal circumstances.
Tock cycles make better buying years anyway when it comes to longevity. A lot of the tick cycles involve cramming more cores onto the top Xeons. Intel is allocating most of that to the igpus on consumer models. If discrete is a requirement, it's not as big of a deal. That sucks regarding Blizzard, but I don't typically play games.
The problem I still see is that they need to appeal to a wide range of users, and Intel's igpus don't always seem to be well tuned. I am expecting to see some updates to the rMBP to make the gpu switching more aggressive. They try to rely on the igpu for battery reasons, but I've read a lot of lag reports. I'm not sure if this is solely a gpu issue.
I imagine you're thinking of things such as fill rates in gaming. My point was that some functions simply will not work below a minimum amount of memory. We rarely see that with regular ram these days unless you have so little that it causes program crashes during pageouts. Certain things just don't work below a set amount. The OEMs that do this typically don't use DDR5 there. They'll use something cheaper. In the case of the 6630m, part of the issue is probably a very narrow thermal or power limit. If it's thermal, they shouldn't have moved the power supply inside the machine. If they hadn't, it would probably be quieter too. We can argue about mediocre cards, but they did the absolute minimum amount. Intel's igpus can allocate more than 256MB. I've always been of the opinion that things should have enough ram that they don't slow down or lag due to ram. While it may not add as much to overall performance, everyone hates lag. It's universal.
