2012 Mac Mini Wish List? - Page 9

 

Three minutes after.

If they stop updating the Mac mini I will have to look elsewhere.

I kind of feel that way too though I don't think the desktop is dead.

The desktop isn't dead but Apple is really screwing it up with this long drawn out release schedule. I bet behind the scenes Intel is trying to push Apple along. New iMacs and Minis would do wonders for Intels numbers.

As to the Mini specifically I'm kinda lean towards its dying. If Apple was smart they would produce a box capable of support a wider array of users. They still need that entry level machine but they also need a more performance rated machine. That means higher wattage processors and a GPU. A GPU with a respectable amount of RAM.

They can do this on a common chassis like today, but the upper end model needs a bigger performance delta between it and the entry level machine. A boost to a 150 watt chassis would provide for a fairly decent GPU and a CPU bump. The simple reality is that unless he iMac gets a major overhaul many of us do not even consider the machine. The Mac Pro is now a joke, so that is out of the question too.

Well where can they go from here with the iDevices? I mean the iPad can't get that much of a massive improvement can it? And iPhone 6 or whatever it will be called? So they kind of have no choice to go back to the Mac eventually.

Make just a server model. Limit quantities. I'm begging ya Apple. Give us something!

 

Really? You really think this? The iPad will replace laptops entirely. Then the desktop will see a huge resurgence. 

I should have clarified myself. I meant that the iPad can't go much from here right now leaving them room to update the Mac mini not that the iPad is done permanently. I'm hoping they aren't putting all their resources into the iPad 4 instead of working on the next Mini and such.

- if the iPad replaces laptops, it has to offer full mobile productivity, including software development, which requires filesystem access.
- if the iPad offered full productivity, it would eventually replace both desktop and laptop but quite a long way down the line.
- the desktop will never see a huge resurgence.

All of the Mac updates have been drawn out this year, possibly because of Intel urging manufacturers to keep selling Sandy Bridge. The last MBP major refresh gap was 473 days. The Mini is sitting at 429 days, the iMac 507 days. Another 2 weeks is no big deal.

 

It has filesystem access already. What people need to get over is their preconceptions about how to do stuff in this regard. Apple's gonna redefine (simplify) folder trees.

 

Oh? So the idea of having a 10-15" iPad out and about with you for mobile computing and coming home to a 21-27" desktop multitouch solution for when you need that much more power wouldn't work out? 

Never thought of the bolded part. The second bolded part I'm going to hold you to. *shakes fist*

All apps are sandboxed. A developer SDK might get away with restricted access but it's not ideal. It also needs to spawn sub-processes for debugging.

Sure it would work out but I still think people will buy laptops over desktops. I doubt many students want to haul a big iMac to uni with them.

I should have used the time frame analysts use: Another 2 - 147 weeks is no big deal.

The iPhone 5 is going to create a huge strain on their supply chain, especially if they aim for 8 million units this weekend but they should be able to free up resources in October sometime. There *has* to be a Mac update in October.

Haha and to be fair I am not that desperate for a machine though it's the whole secrecy thing that aggravates me. I mean the fact that not even Digitimes has anything is driving me insane.

I'm dreaming of a much improved iPad 4 right now, there is much that can be done to improve this machine. My first iPad was an iPad One, not a bad technology demonstrator, but hardly a home run. Going to iPad 3 was like a revelation it was a dramatic improvement all around.
Short term with iPad 4 we get an enhanced A6X SoC that is twice as fast as the current machine if we are real lucky A6X will be quad core with a new GPU and have its RAM doubled along with the various flash allotments. Everything I've seen in the new iPhone indicates that this is very possible, that is a 2x overall performance increase and possibly much more.

2014 might bring us a 64 bit iPad which would transition the machine to a software base that should be viable for years.

Along the way Apple can implement new technology like improved hardware video decodes, encryption hardware and other technologies as SoC space permits. I'm seriously thinking of going with a desktop machine in 2013 instead of another laptop. It really depends upon several things but I'd honestly prefer a desktop over a laptop for ease of use, screen options and serviceability. Notably the laptops have come a very long way since I purchased my 2008 MBP so who knows I could stick with a laptop.

The other part of the equation is the iPad, it gets better almost everyday with constant software updates that are rapidly maturing the various apps I use. It won't be long until iPad has everyone of my mobile needs covered. I run ideas through my head every once in awhile as far as a Mini replacement that could be suitable for a wider array of users including server duties. I like calling it XMac but everybody seems to think that implies a huge tower like box even though that isn't the case. XMac is about making those drives accessible so that it really can pass as a server and providing for enhanced GPU performance. Maybe I should call it VMac for Versatile Mac. A small form factor Mac that does many things well or at least good enough.

Baloney. IPad will replace laptops to the same extent laptops replaced desktops. Frankly there is a group of users that would barf at the idea of trying to do their work on a laptop because in their mind it doesn't offer full productivity. There will likewise be those that won't be able to use an iPad to get their work done. However iPad already offers fairly close to full productivity for many types of users. As noted above I can see software getting better almost everyday. Nope! For the same reasons laptops haven't replaced desktops completely. Users have different needs some of us actually see a resurgence in desktop hardware coming. The need for portability will never go away but it is a long time away that iPads can handle everybody's storage needs. In fact this is where I see Apples biggest mistake with iCloud, the general concept isn't bad but it would be great if iPad apps could select a users computer over a network, log in if you will and access data there. Apple needs to make strides in this sort of integration. I'm not too sure about that! Lately I've been of the mind set that an iPad along with a desktop is a far better arrangement for my needs. That seems to have backfired on them as sales of Intel hardware is far behind where they wanted it to be. Of course that doesn't discount the fact that they have to ramp up 22nm production. Between smart phones in general and iPads Intel is taking a beating. Worst is I'm really thinking they completely missed the opportunity to gain market share here.
Well yes and no. It isn't a big deal for me because I'm trying to hold off until 2013. It's a money thing. However it is a big deal because I can't rationally recommend that people buy Apple desktop hardware now. Especially for general purpose use where the user might keep the machine for a very long time. The lack of USB 3 is a killer here.

Right at this very minute the big problem is that XCode is a whore when it comes to memory and resource use. Admittedly my Mac is old, but starting up XCode is like putting molasses in the fridge and then expect to pour that molasses the next day. It has recently improved with respect to performance but I don't see it running on today's iOS devices anyways.

As to sub processes iOS isn't static Apple could come up with a new policy allowing them or offer up new technology. They do have a real concern here about security and performance. The performance issue will be largely gone soon. This is a good example of a class of users that would most likely hang onto laptops the longest. On the other hand it isn't really that big of a thing to haul around when you think about a student dorm with a stereo, speakers, TV and whatnot laying around. 😜😛😁😜😛😁😜
That was a good one!
For the most part it is a completely different supply chain. Yes Foxconn is at the heart but it is a different plant, different chips board and components. Especially at the low volumes desktops sell, I don't think supply chain is a problem. Except for one possibility, which might be Intel having Apple on allocation due to 22nm production constraints. This is even more so with the Mini as there is no potential screen issue.

An October update would put them in a good position for Christmas shopping.

I can't recall the name of the outfit that supposedly has taken on a lot of Apple production which should improve the assembly situation. I am still not sure about the capacity of the parts suppliers.

 

October is getting pretty close now. If Apple does not soon release some updates, one has to wonder how the delay will affect the next few rounds of updates.

 

[Edit] P.S. I think very few university students are using anything other than laptops these days. In fact, a number of professional schools require the students to have a laptop. I suppose a few graphics arts types may be using a larger display for some of their work, but I just don't think that they are likely to have both a desktop and a laptop. I don't see tablets replacing the laptops either. 

Even if they kill the discrete model, I won't even be mad.

I just hope this kind of thing isn't affecting release dates: http://www.cultofmac.com/192350/how-apples-obsession-with-google-is-hurting-apple/

 

No, but that kind of article (lies) is affecting Apple.

It's a case of design as well. I could get my own case and Hackintosh it but I'm not interested enough to do that.

I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs. Whoever authored that piece has no idea. There are many factors driving Apples problems back then and the weak successive leadership didn't help any. Hopefully not many are gullible enough to take that article as a rational evaluation of what Apple went through.

Any updated rumors that we can use to revive this thread?

 

I wish. But without a case redesign or any expectation of port changes (maybe two Thunderbolt?), all we have to debate is whether they'll use Ivy Bridge or wait until Haswell, since there's no reason for the Mac Mini to have not received an update at this point except that Apple doesn't want it to have newer processors than the iMac.

 

And then that gets us talking about why the iMac wasn't updated when it should have been. We know it's dropping the ODD, so that either means it's slightly thinner or it's a completely new design. I'm gunning for the latter, not for the sake of having a new design, and not because the current one is roughly eight (five) years old, but because I want to see Apple again wow us both with design and engineering, cramming more power in there than we'd ever imagine.

 

I don't think retina for that, but who knows. Just wish Haswell was ready NOW.

Yeah I am looking forward to Haswell myself though since Intel has revealed a few bits and pieces on things to look forward to, it's enough to hold me over.

Apple goes too far on secrecy imho. They need to say (and I know others will disagree) that such might be ready down the road or we're looking at this for a projected date down the road (and actually have done so in the past). Neglecting product lines makes people look elsewhere especially if other options become available.

Same here. But I'm not springing for an iPad until Apple comes out with the desktop that meets my needs.

That is too bad. Seriously iPad has been one of the best investments I've ever made. I'd buy another without thinking about it. We could wait for ever for Apple to rationalize its desktop line up. In my case the laptop is now left of the desk for the most part.

Both Ivy Bridge and Haswell will be major upgrades for the Mini or whatever replaces it. The cooler operation coupled with USB 3 and serviceable graphics means the machine will be supporting a wider user base. That would result in the Osborne effect. Frankly even a company Apples size can't withstand sales dropping off the cliff while people wait for announced hardware.
Neglect is the right concept here and is specific to the desktop lineup. The laptops get all the attention in the world. Frankly I'm not sure if Apple is even aware of the impact this neglect has on sales. I suspect it is more significant than they might imagine. As you note people end up seeking other options.

Well because of USB 3, then yes IB will be a good boost but not on processor speed alone. I feel as a buyer, I do not need to pick up a new Mini until Haswell. That said, I don't want them to not release a new model.

 

They frigging did it with the Mac Pro instead of shutting up and just pushing a Sandy Bridge update! I STILL don't understand why they'd do that unless they plan a total redesign and redefinition of what the Mac Pro is.

As stated before I'm trying to hold off buying any Mac well into 2013. At the rate Apple is going though it could be 2014 before we see a Haswell based Mini and that is if Mini survives.

They need to do something fairly soon with the desktop line up. I've already have advised people not to upgrade or buy Apple desktops this year. The reality is they are extremely dated for what should be a premium hardware purchase.

I'm really shocked at just how stupid Apple has been with the Mac Pro. However in the case of the Mac Pro I suspect that sales have been so bad and the response to the last "update" so heated that it doesn't matter. At the very least they should have thrown a few bones to the customer base including an updated GPU card.

I hate to say it but Apples actions with respect to the Mac Pro can best be described as stupid! I know I've used "stupid" here several times now but generally that is how you refer to people that shoot themselves in the foot. Apple has done more to drive away Mac Pro customers than to capture new ones.
BINGO

I think you are on to something. I suspect an entirely new architecture built around Xeon Phi and similar hardware. It should be very interesting come November / December when Intel is rumored to release this hardware. The potential is huge in a Mac Pro replacement even if software will lag.

I actually see the same thing happening with the Mini, that will morph into a more general purpose platform as the Mac Pro replacement becomes sort of a desktop super computer.

Then again Apple has consistently disappointed me with respect to the desktop since well before 2008 so they could build more Mac desktop crap. Frankly it must be embarrassing to be a engineer at Apple designing desktop hardware. At times desktop hardware has been lagging the laptops by a year or more hardware feature wise.

I wouldn't hold your breath wizard, personally.

 

I KNOW. Give us the 6xxx series now and pop the 7xxx series in the new ones!

What do you bet that they'll really screw the pooch and even with whatever improvements they do to the 2013 model, it's STILL just the 6xxx series?! I mean, flashed 6980s work in the Mac Pro now, sure, so that would be even more embarrassing…

 

I would hope, though obviously can't confirm, that the only thing about which they're embarrassed is misguided (read: iPhone, iPad, and screw everything else) executive decisions stifling their potential creativity in making a powerful, beautiful machine. 

The Parallella hardware is interesting:

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2012/09/28/adapteva-parallella/1

They claim quite a lot of performance from a really cheap CPU. Although x86 is an advantage with the Xeon, Apple has a full SDK for iOS and ARM and they can make their own chips whenever they like and manage costs better.

The ARM cores in the iPhone are tiny and they must run on less than 2W at full load for dual 1.3GHz:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6323/apple-a6-die-revealed-3core-gpu-100mm2

I wonder what 50 of those cores would be capable of. They can probably manufacture a chip like that for under $500. It could possibly even go in an iMac.

Nobody is paying attention to desktops these days. The latest desktop releases go by unnoticed on tech blogs. It's not just Apple doing it.

It's simple supply and demand - focus your supply on where there's demand. That's no longer the desktops because they aren't interesting to consumers any more. A 13" Retina MBP by contrast would sell extremely well, probably more so than the 15" model.

Tim Cook confirmed the next MP update won't arrive until late 2013 so no point in considering that for now. The iMac, Mini and 13" rMBP should be any time now. They tend not to leave things late in the year so October is a pretty sure bet and I think we'll hear about a press event shortly.

Just the thought of that makes me giddy.

There is a lot of interesting hardware out there. However I can't see Apple leaving i86 on the Macs. That compatibility is a huge advantage.
That piece was interesting but the problem is floating point performance is only significant for certain apps. A responsive system needs a snappy integer processor with a good GPU these days. At least in the case of Linux, systems running on ARM hardware are at best sluggish. While I don't see Apple doing it, getting A6 type CPUs to run at 2+ GHz with the right support hardware would make for an interesting Mini. Put a dozen in a Mini and I'm not too sure many would complain. The cores themselves probably are well under 500 milliwatts each. Infact I seem to remember at least one foundry testing out 28nm that indicated they had Cortex A9 cores running at 250 milliwatts. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the entire chip, that is Apples A6, is running at 2-3 watts with all units in operation. Costs = area so they might be very successful with a large number of cores. However the big issue with lots of cores on die is communications. That will actuall take up lots of space and power. True the consummer in general is focused on other devices, but that is no excuse. I understand this but frankly it doesn't justify a company like Apple ignoring the market. They do have the resources to do desktops right. Yeah I know but that doesn't explain the iMac and the Mini.
[/Quote]
The iMac, Mini and 13" rMBP should be any time now. They tend not to leave things late in the year so October is a pretty sure bet and I think we'll hear about a press event shortly.[/quote]

Ok, but I have to ask where is the leaks, rumors and other nonsense that would suggest a October release? I think this is what frustrates many, there isn't even a hint of new desktops anytime soon.

This does boggle the mind. It is possibly the most asinine thing they have done in awhile. If the 2013 solution isn't a major overhaul, that sets the "Pro" up for another 5 or more years, then I really will be thinking that Apple has lost their way.
It really has to suck. I mean really these guys are tech heads and likely want to ship respectable hardware. Right now there really is nothing respectable for the desktop.

It would just be a co-processor, it wouldn't have to run an OS although it could easily run iOS and be controlled from OS X. You'd have a Xeon chip and some multi-core ARM co-processor, could be 25-core 2GHz. Software that doesn't use a GUI like graphics rendering engines can be compiled against it and run in parallel. This kind of software can easily use every core:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBRR5j0GR9o

It would need to be 64-bit and share the memory with the main CPU.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/10/01/apple-rumored-to-send-out-ipad-mini-event-invitations-on-oct-10

The last event was guessed well in advance:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/30/apple-media-event-all-but-confirmed-for-mid-september-iphone-launch-likely/

It has to be next week at the earliest as the press event invites have to be sent out, usually on Friday.

Marvin,

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Nevertheless, I hope Apple sticks with x86 and other off-the-shelf hardware, or at least hardware co-developed with someone like Thunderbolt, and sticks to refining the system and user experience that defines the Mac rather than going out on some small evolutionary tree limb that may be a dead end. 

 

I am looking forward to seeing more of what can be done with Haswell. It should be interesting. I hope Apple will make some sort of tower using the desktop versions in addition to a full out high end work station. I continue to believe that there are a significantly large group of users who want the flexibility of a tower rather than being restricted by the iMac platform. I know that I have spoken with several people of late who have said that they are presently using an iMac because Apple have not released an up-to-date Mac Pro in too long.

 

Cheers

We are talking Mac Mini here!!!    I've heard nor read about anything Mac Mini related.