Foxconn rumored to begin receiving Apple television LCDs in Q3 2012 - Page 3

"DVR functionality", for all intents and purposes, means "ability to record" to consumers. So you'll need a place to store that stuff, which isn't available on the Apple TV. Forcing people to use their computers as a DVR box isn't a valid solution.

Perhaps be right first.

 

I believe the thousands of EyeTV purchasers (who paid $180+ apiece might I add) "force people to use their computers as a dvr box".  That isn't the only hardware device made for that specific purpose.  But several companies that create products, employ staff, develop, research, market, and consumers who purchase must not understand the brilliance that you seem to possess.  Congrats.

 

 

Ok... I'm right.

It's funny how you think that's analogous.

It's funnier how you think it's not.

 

I was simply stating that technically it can be done, that there is enough storage space, and giving examples of numbers of people who already use that feature through other means.  You, on the other hand, said it couldn't happen due to the Apple TV only having 8GB and then followed that up by stating no one would do it.

Both points, I believe, were completely refuted.  If you can't agree with that, then I concede- you win.  You hit your goal for that day I guess....

I'm talking about them functioning as an extender...they wouldn't keep the content on them, they simply allow you to access content on (or record new content to) the main unit in the family room....the new Apple TV TV.  They wouldn't need any additional memory for that.   For example, on my Dish set up I don't have any head unit in the bedroom but I can watch everything on my DVR that resides in the family room.  I can record to it too.

You can't tell me that people would accept the Apple TV as a "DVR" if it required a Mac for storage! That's laughable on the face of it. The eyeTV is a BOX, like every other DVR. The one that ISN'T a box is a direct connection from coax to the Mac, meaning the Mac is the DVR.

I know you're arguing with someone else but let me reiterate, the current ATV would function as an extender and would not use it's own storage or a computer's. It would use the new Apple TV's.

So you have to have the television… plus a box… negating the purpose of Apple making a TV (not that it already hadn't been)…

I'm sorry, but these 'solutions' aren't.

 

You have the ATV box already- all this does is add a feature.  Don't like it?  Don't use it.  Just like MLB.tv, NHL, or iTunes store.  Don't like photo stream screensaver?  Don't have one.  How is this any different?

No, you don't have to have a box unless you want to utilize multi room capabilities.  Essentially, the "new" Apple Television would be a TV with the existing ATV inside it with a large hard drive and multiple tuners.  This would take the place of your cable/satellite box - eliminating cables and giving you a Apple interface.  The one thing you would lose with that is the multiroom DVR capability some providers have (see Dish's Hopper, etc.)  That could be addressed by still selling the current ATV and giving it the capability, via a firmware update, to view what is on the main DVR that resides in the new Apple TV (and record to it.)  So yes, this is a solution. One that would be very popular IMHO.

 

Exactly- and you said it so it makes perfect sense.  Which is, of course, why he will dismiss it.

Haha, most likely

I know it sounds crazy at first glance, but it's based on actual research.

Link to full image here.

I love it. Keep the posts where I'm told what I'm able to see coming…

So you had a chance to take a look at a display with angular resolution of 300+ or 400+ pixels per degree at normal viewing distance(s) [display occupying 25+ degrees horizontally]? Maybe you participated in these studies?

Wow, that must have been an experience. Why don't you share your experiences with us?

 

Sooo...now we know the next dumbshit Greenpeace campaign...

 

A rolls eyes icon would be really helpful...

 

I'd be pretty pissed to have a Gen 1 AppleTV built into my early 2010 TV and missing out on all the gen 2 and 3 AppleTV features.

 

Large hard drive?  Which decade are you from?  Screw DVRs...I want live streaming for Sports and on demand for everything else...including sports I missed live.  Why on earth do I want to mess around with any sort of DVR scheduling?

 

Multiple tuners?  WTF for?  Everything is IP under the covers except OTA and Sat (which is getting more and more screwed).  How many freaking coax cables do you want running into your TV?

 

You seriously want to build the equivalent of a home server into every Apple Television to save 2 cables from the current aTV (1 power + 1 HDMI) that probably sits on top of your AV receiver (with it's own morass of wires)?

 

HDTVs are retina by definition.  The resolution is based entirely on the inability to resolve pixels (60 PPD) at the minimum 30 degrees horizontal viewing angle required for the induction effect to occur to replicate a theater like experience.

 

For reference somewhere between 33 degrees and 26 degrees HVA is the back row of many theaters with 36 degrees the maximum recommended (by THX anyway)

 

http://home.roadrunner.com/~res18h39/calculator.htm

60 ppd is 20/20 vision.

20/20 is nominal, not average acuity.

In a study by NHK, average acuity of participants was 20/10 or 120 ppd.

Same study shows participants were able to discern images with higher angular resolution that their acuity "score" would suggest.

 

So, I'd forget about stoneage 60 ppd.

 

Don't worry, the population is aging...besides I'm for 4K TVs, not against.

1) Who said anything about a gen 1 ATV? I said the "existing" ATV, i.e., gen 3.

2) Yes, a large hard drive (SSD is too pricey.) You would have to have one if you are going to function as a DVR. You're saying everything should be streamed and that's a whole different argument.

3) You don't understand how multiple tuners work. It does not require multiple coax cables (although it can in some applications.) There would be ONE coax going to the TV, that's it. No set top box. Inside the TV would be multiple tuners so you can record several shows while watching one live.

4) No, it's not a home server. Now you're just talking in circles and you're missing the point. 95% of people are not ready to give up cable/sat in part bc there is no alternative. My idea is...well just go back and read my first post.

Well, some old people can't hear difference between 64kbps mp3 and original, uncompressed sound. That, however, doesn't mean artists should be selling CDs with 64kbps mp3s on them.

 

Same thing with displays. Why should we accept below-average 60 pixels per degree? Push it to the limits.

 

 

The point is that anything you stick in there will be outdated in a few years.  If Apple had created what you suggest in 2010 with the latest aTV at the time (the original) then 2 years later it would be very outdated today.  

 

 

 

The point is the whole DVR mindset is outdated to begin with.

 

 

You don't understand how set top boxes and tuners work.  The tuners are now in silicon of most current cable STBs running DOCSIS not discrete devices anymore.  In other words it's typically part of the DOCSIS chipset.

 

To handle everything without STBs you need to have Cablecard support for cable (and FiOS), DishPro for DiSH, SWM for DirectTV (plus sat receivers for both + smart card readers for decryption), IPTV protocol support for UVerse IPTV, etc.  To cover JUST the US market is a mess.  The how many coax line was me being excessively snarky although you do need 3-4 if you want to support DiSH, OTA and Cable at the same time.  Which oddly I had for a while for foreign channels and sports.  

 

If I had kept up with that nonsense I'd have both DiSH and DirectTV because DiSH has a US exclusive on some foreign packages and DirectTV has an exclusive on NFL Sunday Ticket.

 

Just having a basic QAM tuner isn't enough to handle any of the cases with any sort of encryption.  Not to mention all the rules (and licensing) associated with implementing DVR capability (copy once, copy many, etc).

 

Cablecard is pretty much crap because of the way CableLabs designed it but you need it to implement what you want.  You really think Apple wants to stick a piece of crap in their TV?  Ain't happening.  Ask TiVO how great that experience was.

 

 

 

It is a home media server if you're going to lump all that crap into a TV...just a limited one.  Your idea captures media, stores large quantities of it and replays it for multiple devices on the network.  Exactly what do you think a home media server does?

 

If 95% of folks can't give up cable/sat and you can't get one device to handle a reasonable subset of cable/sat that doesn't suck (or possibly at all) then your idea is pretty much DOA.

 

Well, evidently your eyesight isn't that good either since you didn't see where I wrote I'm for 4K TVs.

Why even have discrete pixels really? They could aim to get it like film by having adjacent points of light merge together by having them overlap and dampened with a controlled gradient.



Even under a microscope, you'd just see a continuous band of colour. For example, you can imagine strips (or a single strip) of optical fibre fed by a green, red and blue LED. Instead of a backlight being shone through crystals, the light you see is the exact colour of the LED mixture in a pin-point, which can be spread over an area and partially merged with the adjacent pin-point of light.

 

OK, you don't like DVRs, we've got that. But assuming the iTV (or whatever they call it) is meant to replace cable/sat then unless they've signed agreements with every network and broadband provider to allow streaming of their content (unlikely), we are stuck with cable/sat and DVR's for the foreseeable future.  Remember, at various points Apple has had agreements with most networks allowing of streaming their content on the ATV but many of those have since expired (it's a small list now.) And the ones that are still on there generally don't offer all their shows and often don't release new shows until weeks after they've aired.  I just don't see Apple suddenly having signed long term agreements with all the networks AND broadband providers.

 

 

My assumption - or dream maybe - is that this is the code that Steve Jobs said they finally cracked.  Solving the encryption is something Apple would have no problem doing with the aid of the cable/sat companies. No cable card would be needed.  And I don't see the rules/licensing issues with DVRs being that hard to solve.  Again, I'm not claiming this IS what is going to happen, I'm saying it's what I would like to see.  Based off many other comments and blogs I've read, I'm not the only one.  If you don't think this is possible or likely, then what do you think the iTV capabilities will be?  Remember, these capabilities will need to be significantly more than throwing the current ATV in a TV to get people to see the value of an Apple designed TV.

Yup, that's Retina at only 39" away (that's a little more than half of 72" away, and 88 ppi is a little less than twice the 50 pip).

Sitting 3.25 feet away from a 50" display is quite a field of vision, and not seeing those pixels would be nice.

 

I've thought the same thing all along, but sales of AppleTV over the entire life of the product indicate what Apple may be thinking. People, for whatever reason, don't like buying additional set top boxes. They have a cable box, they have receiver, a dvd player, or a blu ray player, and/or game console. Buying something "extra category" is far on the fringe. Even if the AppleTV can replace just about every one of those other devices, they point is, they already have those devices and use them, so replacing them is out of the question....unless they're starting from scratch.

 

As a long term strategy, Apple may do far better with an all in one device...a beautiful, big, integrated display, that you eventually buy when you're ready for the ultimate TV upgrade. You don't need anything with this product, besides an AC outlet and WiFi in the house. With a little magic of software, licensing, and content delivery/discovery means, everything you'll need or want to watch will come through the device. It will play nicely with your iOS devices, as well as HomeSharing, just as ATV does now.

 

It will take a long time, but eventually this product will grow and dominate the TV market....as it will be THE flagship device for replacing this: Image of ugly TV surrounded by a dozen boxes and endless wires. With This: Seamless white background with a beautiful horizontal piece of dark glass.

 

That's because it's a hobby right now. If Apple changes it in the way they should change it, any other set top boxes become moot.

 

 

Why? I disagree. If they buy the non-hobby Apple TV when one of their devices breaks or they want to switch out one of their existing devices, they'll slowly stop using any of the others they have left.

 

Don't need a jumbotron per se but imagine if your tv was built into the wall and went floor to ceiling. That's a good 8 ft in vertical height for many folks. 

 

And one day it will likely happen, although probably not for a good 50 years or more. 

 

As for now, I'm going to laugh myself near to death when come the fall Apple has their iOS hardware event and announces new iTunes offerings, the new iPhone that has the exact same design as the current ones (and is just called the iPhone), the iPods 

 

and the new Apple Cinema Displays -- 

 

"The new Apple Cinema Display line up will come in three sizes 27", 36" and 46". The Displays are lightweight and thin and the easy to switch hardware will make it a breeze to put it on a table or cabinet or even hang it on the wall using the included VESA mount adapter. The Cinema Display features a brilliant LCD/LED hybrid screen that supports resolutions of up to 4096x2304 (the same 4k that the Red One shoots) making it suitable for watching Blu-ray, using with your cable box or Apple TV, or even editing super high quality video footage. Also making this possible are the wide range of ports on the Cinema Displays. The Cinema Displays support the latest in HDMI technology, as well as the Standard Thunderbolt/MagSafe cables for use with your favorite laptop. The Cinema Display series is even 3D ready when used at 1080 resolution. The Cinema Display's included speakers can be used alone or as complements to your home theatre solution. The Cinema Display series starts at a same low $999 and ship next week. 

 

To complement your Cinema Display, we've updated the Apple TV as well. The new Apple TV features a 32GB SSD allowing you to download more rentals and buffer more streaming content for smooth playback. Additional inputs and outputs to support a range of cable boxes, game consoles and digital audio solutions are included in the Apple TV allowing you to avoid the mess of dozens of cables between your tv and entertainment. We've also designed a multifunction audio/video cable for your HDMI and digital audio for that clean simple look. (sells for a mere $39.99). We are also releasing a new device SDK to allow 3rd party companies to update their players for optional control from the Apple TV interface, eliminating the need for multiple remotes. You can either control all your devices from the included Apple Remote or use the newly updated Remote app on your favorite iOS device. Speaking of updates to the interface, now you can arrange the Apple TV's options to fit your own style using the same simple gestures of iOS. We have also added a number of new video playback apps from partners like Hulu, BBC, NBC and more. Your iTunes media has been moved from the 'computer' menu and integrated into the movies, music and television menus. Access to the store has been moved to a simple button link much like on your iOS devices. And all media you can access is in one list whether it is through home sharing or iTunes in the cloud. With the Remote App you can even elect to receive alerts when a pre-order is released or a season pass has a new episode and either download it to your authorized computer or schedule it to be pre-buffered to your Apple TV to be ready to watch when you are. All no matter where you are. The new Apple TV will change the way you watch television. All for the same $99 and also shipping next week."

 

And this rumored 'real' TV will never be more than a rumor. And if the truth was even half of my made up version I'd give it some serious thought. 

 

no it isn't. Because that isn't what "Deus Ex Machina" means. Not even close. 

 

The literal translation is "God from Machine" and refers to the ancient Greek and Roman theatrical trick of having God characters descend in a basket or crane like device for their entrance during theatrical performances. As a literally term the phrase is used for those characters or items that clean up the often complex and cumbersome multiple threads that the playwrights would write with no real way out. The God character would be the one that announced the solution to the problem. In modern times it has come to mean any poorly written trite and contrived trick to clean things up because you wrote yourself into a wall. Especially those that don't involve stunts like time travel (unless that is a part of the basic conceit of the show). An example might be the ending of the US version of Life On Mars. Or for those that know theatre, the ending of The Importance of Being Earnest. Some folks even say the whole "it was a dream" solution to Who Shot JR would be an example of such writing. 

 

Cats and Dogs my friend. That is the purpose of the EyeTV and is bought for that specific purpose. But Apple might deem it not the best solution. The best might be, in their eyes, the whole 'iTunes in the Cloud' where you can access the copy they have to have for downloading to you anyway. Or even getting folks to get off this stunt of only having the current episode up to stream off a website and only then for a handful of days. Even on Hulu+ often you only get like 3-5 episodes from the current season on some titles. And Netflix comes and goes on titles depending on syndie deals. All because of how the contracts are defined. OTA/Cable and Digital are not the same but the networks haven't figured that out yet. Just like they haven't figured out that the ratings system blows monkey puke

 

 

 

 

 

And if you'd look at anything written about the TV, you'd see why it fits perfectly.

 

don't you know, bandwidth caps make that impossible. And no way while the ISPs change or remove those caps cause that would make it easier to ditch cable and for the most part that's the same company that is providing your internet. 

 

my big issue with the whole streaming thing is 

a. my viewership isn't counted towards budget make good or show life. (same with iTunes and amazon bought stuff)

b. i don't get a choice to pay to turn off the ads or at least to shove them all at the beginning. 

c. the delays in access, sometimes up to several weeks and the short period to watch when it does arrive. (double with the iTunes stuff)

d. geographic and 'you must be a cable subscriber' restrictions. 

 

these are the same reasons many use to justify torrents. 

 

Is this even a sentence? I think I see what you're saying, but it is counted. They can know how many people are accessing their stuff. Streaming, iTunes purchases, and Nielsen households are the ONLY way to determine that.

 

I've seen all the theories, rumors etc that have been written about this alleged TV, which is why I know that the term doesn't fit even slightly. 

 

10 years working theatre, film and tv, another 6 working just film and tv. I know my lit terms very very well. That you could pull it up in Dictionary and read the very clear definition that is NOTHING like all the talk about the rumored tv set is a tad sad. That you deign to imply I'm the uninformed one after I spelled out what the term means is bordering on trolling it. Particularly when you toss up said Dictionary entry which is exactly what I said and shows how off base you are. 

 

Okay. Sure.

 

They know how many people are accessing the stuff and how but they only care about one count -- The Ratings Sample. 16 years of working in TV and that one thing has not changed. TV show episode budgets these days are between $1-3 million for non Reality TV stuff, or assuming everyone is buying the cheaper SD file, 1.5 million downloads per episode to cover the budget. There are some shows out there that could easily be getting that much week after week. But that doesn't mean jack and the show will be cancelled after the first 13 episodes (if not way sooner) because the network promised the advertisers a Nielsen Rating of 10 million viewers and the Sample produced a mere 7 million estimated viewers. THAT deficit is what will cancel the show, rather than the 1-2 million iTunes downloads saving it. 

 

If a show is at least 90% to the number and is either slowly rising or at least holding steady, a network might consider letting it ride out the full initial pickup before deciding to cancel, if the streaming etc numbers are amazingly good. But if the number doesn't hit the mark by the end of that first 13 there won't be a back nine or a second season. Otherwise it's a goner. 

 

Networks are scratching their collective balls trying to figure out how to stop file sharing etc and yet they haven't clued in to the simple issue that these fans might be willing to go legit if the use of legal sources was actually a vote of viewership to keep the show going. It won't end all torrents and such anymore than iTunes stopped music sharing but it might reduce it a lot. Not to mention the negative PR, the having to deal with fan campaigns etc. 

 

The type of use you are talking about is how the Gen 1 ATV was set up, not the Gen 3 (which is streaming only). So while you said 'existing' your desired use is basically calling for a return to the Gen 1 design. And that is what folks are reacting to, not your terminology. 

 

In regards to that use, I don't see Apple doing it. I think they will stick to streaming for the Apple TV, including streaming off your computer for those that want to  have that function in play. It works for many. All that perhaps needs to be switched is the need to have iTunes turned on and actively running. Seems to me that there could be a way to have Mac OS activate some kind of media mini server type function independent of iTunes that would serve up the files without having to have iTunes turned on. That such a function isn't in there is what peeves a lot of folks about the idea of home sharing. Or even put it in the Apple TV side of the game so you could point the tv to a hard drive of files over wifi or a direct connection and it could read the files and populate the correct areas of the UI to 'stream'/play the content

 

What you're calling for with this DVR function is the same notion but in reverse. The Apple TV writing the files rather than just reading them. Which would mean an internal hard drive a la the Apple TV 1 or connection to a server or drive to hold the files. Which again I can't really see since letting you just copy the OTA feeds reduces possible iTunes sales. Apple may not make a lot off iTunes but they aren't likely to cut into it any more than the Nets want to release same time downloads globally and have it cut into international OTA or even just domestic ratings views. They are more likely to push for better quality, quicker access, better pricing to get more iTunes sales than to add functions that bypass the whole system. 

 

And that really depresses me.